Kris Tapley over at Incontention makes the bold prediction that Heath Ledger may be in line not for a supporting nod but for lead. I am a pessimist by nature and thus, my reaction to this is supporting, yes, lead, no. This is an extremely competitive category. And it has been, in recent years, overcrowded, so overcrowded that many of the best performances did not or could not make the cut. Supporting is different. It was brought up in the comments that it must not be too early to call Heath Ledger the winner when people were already calling Javier Bardem the winner at this time last year. Here is the main difference: Bardem’s character was not A) a comic book character, B) in a summer blockbuster but rather in a Coen brothers movie, C) a complete original. Heath will be getting great reviews, no doubt. But he is still playing a character who has already been played by Jack Nicholson. Those are some big differences. Still, never say never. It’s interesting to speculate, particularly when none of the Big Oscar Movies have turned out yet.
If he is nominated for Best Actor, he will not win. You’re right, Sasha, it’s too competitive a category. That was the mistake in nominating Daniel Day-Lewis for Gangs of New York when he almost certainly would’ve won for Best Supporting.
As for the Ledger Was Robbed debate, face it. He never would’ve won. It was down to Hoffman and Phoenix all the way. Ledger was great in Brokeback but it was far too taboo. Plus they had been itching to give Oscars to Hoffman and Phoenix for a while, and nobody could’ve predicted Ledger’s untimely death.
Corrections-
I know there is no supporting actor nom in The MTV Awards, he would win Best Villian for that. I also know that Arkin, Holbrook, and
Dee are alive, I was giving an example of certain kind of nominations.
I know James Dean got nominated for Giant after he passed away.
I do not remember if his nomination for East of Eden came before or
after. I also don’t remember if he got nominated for Rebel Without a
Cause, his most celebrated part. He is getting all of this buzz from
campaigning from the studio, his co-stars, and the media who is
just creating the buzz because it will make a great story. The fact that people are even throwing out Best Actor is just insane. We need to get real.
I have a great amount of respect for the late Heath Ledger. I was
devastated by his early demise. However, the award buzz for his role
in The Dark Knight is kind of ridiculous, this is not an award-worthy
role. His performance is quite compelling and interesting, but not to the level of an award nomination. If he gets nominated, why not
Christian Bale, Robert Downey Jr for Iron Man, Harrison Ford
for IJ, Ed Norton for IH, Will Smith for Hancock or James McAvoy for Wanted? It would be the equivalent of that. I think most people would find it silly and a waste , if those guys got nominated for those kind of roles. He will probably get some supporting actor nominations from some of the award ceremonies, especially from the pop
culture ones like the MTV awards, though I hope he does not get
the Oscar nomination. The Oscars are supposed to celebrate the
cream of the crop, and his nomination would just be a slot-filler.
I think it would be unfair to other actors who deserved that 5th slot. If he does get a nomination, it would be for his body of work and out of pity. I am tired of those kind of nominations. Hal Holbrook, Rudy
Dee, Alan Arkin, and etc are good actors that I like very much who
were not appreciated in the past and that is why they got nominated.. as a sort of career achievement nomination and sentimental vote. That has been happening alot lately. Their performances in the movie did not warrant an Oscar nomination
especially if you do a compare & contrast of other good & more substantial performances that did not get a nomination. Giving him a nomination after his death, would just be the industry’s way of extending his legacy and myth, kind of like James Dean & his two nominations after his passing.
Michelle Williams gave a wonderful performance for Wendy and Lucy,
I hope she gets nominated for that.
Boy! All this discussion about a performance that hasn’t really been seen by the public.
I’d really be fine if he didn’t win anything. He doesn’t need Oscar to validate him. And reaching back to the Ledger vs PSH thing, the person that should have actually gotten the Oscar was Terrence Howard. By a hair.
I recall one thing, the supporting categories (Male or Female) is more liberal and “crazy” instead lead categories…
In Lead Categories we have:
*Real character (Especially from famous and historical people)
*Dramatic genre (Especially victims)
*De-Glam factor
In supporting categories we have more comedy characters, strange people, villains, fantasy characters…
*Willem Dafoe, “Shadow of the Vampire”
*Anne Ramsey, “Throw Momma from the Train”
*Ben Kingsley; “Sexy Beast” (My perfect example: release date: June 13; excentric character and anyone could thinking he gets an Oscar Nomination)
*Alan Arkin, “Little Miss Sunshine” (Comedic role)
*Diane Ladd, “Wild at Heart”
*Javier Bardem, “No Country for Old Men”
*Lauren Bacall, “The Mirrow has two faces”
*Jack Palance, “City Slickers”
*Joan Cusack, “In & Out”
*Alec Baldwin, “The Cooler” (It’s not exactly his role, it’s the film)
*Catherine Keener, “Being John Malkovich”
*Jackie Earle Haley, “Little Children” (pedophile, excentric character)
*Ian McKellen, “The Lord of the Rings”
*Chris Cooper, “Adaptation”
There’s simply not enough exposition of The Joker in The Dark Knight for it to qualify as a lead performance. The character is the driving force of the story but the performance stays within the supporting category and never takes center stage. Kris is buying into the hype.
His performance will and should go for lead, why not go for it? To get a supporting actor nomination is not as impressive or as important as getting a lead acting performance, even if people won’t say that outright. And Ledger is an actor who deserves to get proper accolades for his immense talent, that was never even fully appreciated.
I envision his performance as being somewhat similar to Daniel Day Lewis’s best actor nomination for Gangs of New York. Day Lewis wasn’t the lead in the movie, DiCaprio was. But Day Lewis dominated the entire movie with his performance, even if he wasn’t on screen as much as Diaz of Dicaprio. And so while Ledger may not have as much screen time as Bale, I do personally believe, just form what I have seen that his performance will dominate the entire movie.
I hate to go even further back, but James Dean’s performance in Giant (his second posthumous nomination) was clearly something that could go either way, lead or supporting but I am glad he got the lead nomination because Dean was the most fascinating thing about the film Giant, and while he shared the screen he was the one everyone watched.
I don’t want Ledger to get a best supporting actor nomination, they hand those out as apologies. but to garner a best actor nomination is a true accomplishment, because then you are competing with the big boys. and it would make the victory all the better.
Let’s not forget Al Pacino being nominated for “Dick Tracy” in 1991. Or better yet, let’s do forget about that. Ledger should be in the supporting category- it’s all about chances of winning- and that’s where he stands the best chance to win.
Q: Hasn’t there only been one posthumous Oscar winner- Peter Finch for Network? Or am I forgetting someone?
He’ll go supporting. Lead is FAR too competitive & unpredictable.
Plus Oscar have NO problem putting lead performances in Supporting…
Casey Affleck in Jesse James, anyone? He was more of the lead than Brad Pitt, but… well, he wasn’t playing Jesse James, & he wasn’t Brad Pitt. But had they pushed for lead, he would not have been nominated.
I agree that Javier Bardem could also have gone lead, but agree that it’s good he didn’t.
Lastly, I agree that Heath seems Oscar-worth in the Dark Knight, but that it does have some things working against it, like the fact that its a comic book movie… (the last person te be nominated for playing a comic character being… -think about it… not even Jack Nicholson could pull it off, or Steve Buscemi in Ghost World…Paul Giamatti & Hope Davis in American Splendor… Ben Affleck in Daredevil (LMAO)-…) Bonus being that The Dark Knight is going to be huge. & good. & they at least gave Batman Begins some technical noms, so they have some apprecation for Chris Nolan.
Bottom line being, they shouldn’t overplay their hand. They’d be smart to start a big campain for Supp Actor for Ledger. But stupid to go for lead.
Kristopher, you’re right about the Blanchett thing not being a “rumor” as I described. Sorry for calling it something it wasn’t. Definitely hubris on the part of the Weinsteins.
But still. Jack was nominated for lead in the comedy/musical category. I doubt there’s much comedy in Ledgers performance in The Dark Knight, and I think it would be a tough sell to go lead in drama for it. Oh well. We’ll see what happens 🙂
Mark, I actually have been talking about Ledger’s potential nod since the Fall. Word about how wonderful the performance was started as early as October or thereabouts. Sadly, his death amped up the possibilities.
Just to comment on some of the thoughts posted here:
-The Cate Blanchett “rumor” was not a rumor at all. It was a strategy the Weinstein Company had begun to pursue, before finally seeing the light. Hubris, is all.
– I think it’s interesting the crux of the pro-supporting debate seems to be from those anticipating a win, and therefore, the entire argument is built on “he can’t win in lead.” Personally, I don’t think he can win in either category (never really have).
– Ed’s WB point is a bit of a blanket statement founded in two examples. And Clooney was even slated for a leading campaign at one point. I think using the words “Warner is famous for” in this case is taking some liberties.
– Yes I’ve made some doosy calls in the past that didn’t pan out. But so has anyone reading these words. It’s July. I’m gonna have some fun!
– Jack got a lead nod at the Golden Globes. Though, admittedly, the BAFTAs went supporting.
It’ll be interesting to see how the whole scenario plays out.
would we all be talking about heath for support or lead if i hadn’t dies,it was sad and he was good in bbm but come on you’re all talking like he was an acting titan!
Do you think that the Joker’s make-up will give TDK an Oscar for Best Make Up?
Somehow this is reminiscent of the big splashy rumor that hit the ‘Net about Cate Blanchett going lead for I’m Not There rather than supporting. Much like that–which didn’t sound practical at the time, either–I highly doubt Tapley here. And Edward Douglas makes a sterling point, regarding the Warner Bros. tendency to ensure victory by pushing people in supporting when they really aren’t supporting, at least not necessarily so.
For Ledger’s performance to make it into Best Actor? From July to the nominations in January? It’s like going through a minefield.
(Ironically, I actually thought last year was a pretty interesting case where the Best Supporting Actor category was packed with five different, amazing performances whereas Best Actor was more or less locked down, so you never know.)
I haven’t seen the movie but I doubt it… Warner Bros is famous for putting actors into supporting categories to try to win… George Clooney in Syriana, the entire cast of The Departed are two recent examples.
Capote was a fine film that didn’t get the attention it deserved, so lets just give them this one award. Brokeback Mountain was great as well and got awards too. It’s a shame that Ledger did not receive an Oscar while he was alive, but perhaps with enough support, he can get one now. So get over PSH vs. Ledger and concentrate on Ledger in this year’s oscars.
sigh – the “Ledger was robbed” debate continues (and this from a PSH fan who staunchly defends his win and reminds the crowd of countless critics who deemed his performance – not the more popular, more conventionally handsome Ledger, whose role in Brokeback seemed to earn people’s praise more for their surprise at his ability than his legacy of talent – the best of the year. Full disclosure – that year I hosted: http://www.pshbestactor.com).
Now then, to the question at hand. I’ll go on record supporting the supporting nod and possible win. I think sentiment may push voters toward a supporting category but Best Actor (male or female) is too coveted in H’wood to award it posthumously, particularly for a role that is not the lead, like Jamie Foxx/Ray Charles part. I dare say that outside of Best Picture, it might be the second biggest award of the evening (she says sadly considering that Best Actress may be viewed to be a rung or two below).
Well I had him winning supporting. when I saw the first pic of Heath as the Joker. Long before the trailer came out and his untimely death. I thought I was being bold then, but I guess not.
Oscar should do like Tony does on Broadway. If your name is above the title you are lead. If it is below the title, supporting. More than four names above the title? All go supporting.
Ledger aint going for Lead……to quote ROBOCOP, “I’ll buy that for a dollar!”
The guy has a serious shot of both a nomination, and even winning it. I mean why not?
Well, I also think it was Kris who was saying that Jack Nicholson would go lead for The Departed. And there was also talk about lead for Bardem last year. I seriously doubt that Ledger would fit into the lead category. But hey. Sometimes being bold pays off. I would be very surprised if this is one of them though 😉
Amen, Sasha, Amen.
While we’re on it, let’s not forget Kris saying No Country wouldn’t even be nominated for Best Pic. I have some doosies in my past too, though, so I can’t talk. Even if they are going to “fix” the Brokeback year they will not give Ledger a lead prize for that part in that movie. It just isn’t “important” enough.
Kris Tapley’s middle name is “bold.” Remember when he brazenly predicted that the god-awful INTO THE WILD would win the Best Picture prize even before it received a Best Pix nom (which it never received anyway)? And Kris has bucked the concensus too with his annointments of THE FOUNTAIN/INLAND EMPIRE and JESSE JAMES as his best picture choices of the past few years. Yet on those counts I give him unreserved praise, agreement on the former and near-agreement on the latter. But Kris is a wonderful and passionate reviewer-commentator.
That digression conveyed, I agree completely with Sasha, even though she does admit at the outset she is a bit unsure. The reasons she poses make much sense, and the comments above are also in agreement. The argument that Jack Nicholson as villain was a supporting role is irrefutable. At this point, I can well understand there is a flurry of emotion for Ledger (and I certainly share it myself) so the lead would give him a great deal of attention, yet within the myriad of Oscar competition, we can give much validity to a supporting nod, especially since it’s an easier statue to win in most instances. Had Mr. Bardem been nominated for Best Actor, he would have lost in all probability to Day-Lewis; as supporting he was a shoe-in.
Roy: I respect your position of Ledger in BROKEBACK, but at the end of the day I feel his performance was SECOND BEST to Hoffmann’s, a sentiment evinced by the vast majority of the critics’ groups worldwide. Oscar called that one right. But no matter, Ledger is an acting titan, and the whole world is pulling for him to win all kinds of awards for this swan song.
Bardem’s character was a supporting character though. The nature of the plot meant that Ed Tom Bell was actually the focal point of the plot.
As for Ledger, I think it’ll go supporting From the nature of being a villain (and not the only one in the movie) and from comments Chris Nolan has made, supporting seems both like the best reflection of the performance, and his best chance of winning. Were he to win, we’ll doubtless endure cries of sentimentality, but as far as I’m concerned, he should’ve won for Brokeback (and that’s coming from a huge Philip Seymour Hoffman fan)
I don’t think voters would put him in the lead for the simple fact that it’s a batman movie and he is not playing batman.
Although, I would have to argue that Javier Bardem had the leading role in No Country… I mean, he was in more of the movie than anyone else.