Thanks to this essay by Mark Harris at Grantland.com. I feel a lot less like a fuming hothead for suggesting earlier that Brett Ratner’s behavior shouldn’t be pardoned.
…at a Los Angeles Q&A after a screening of Tower Heist, the film’s director Brett Ratner dismissed a question about his process by saying, “Rehearsing is for fags.” Since Ratner has been signed to produce this year’s Oscars, I would say he has a problem. There are many public responses that can follow an incident like this: The Sincere Apology, The Twelve-Step Apology (“My intemperate remarks have led me to understand that I need to seek treatment for…”), the Non-Apology Apology (“I’m sorry if my choice of words offended…”), the Can’t-You-Take-A-Joke Apology (“All my gay friends know that I don’t use P.C. language…”) or the Sidestep Apology (“I didn’t mean anything homophobic, I was just using ‘fags’ to mean, you know, losers!”)
Id like to post all three terrific paragraphs, but you should click on over to Grantland to read the middle of Mark Harris’ argument. Here’s his closing statement:
I’ve had to listen to versions of every one of these mea-not-quite-culpas over the years and seriously, I’m no longer interested in patiently witnessing the slow arc of a public figure’s learning curve. What I do care about is what the Academy does, which should be either to ask for and receive his resignation from the show or to drop him as the producer of a show that is supposed to represent the best the industry has to offer. There’s not really a long, nuanced debate to be had about this. If he had used an equivalent racial or religious slur, the discussion would go something like, “You’re fired.” Apology or not. The same rule applies here. You don’t get a mulligan on homophobia. Not in 2011.
Whats the big deal with saying fag? Does it even apply to homosexuals? When you say fag you don’t say it as a gay slur, homosexuals shouldn’t be so self conscious and taking everything seriously. Stop comparing yourselves to a religion or a race seriously. I see some comments here saying if he made the comment racially or a religious slander he would have been fired. Fuck you buddy. This is america and you should be able to say what you want.
I’m not a homophobe, I believe in equality for all. But homosexuals have to stop believing themselves to be a second class, that certainly isn’t the case anymore. Now you can destroy someone for the smallest gay slander. You can’t do it on religious racial grounds. If someone calls someone a chink or beaner what would happen. Seriously, stop being so exclusive to the rest of america. Its no blunder, Its no big deal I understand it was public, but he didn’t say it in anger, he didn’t say it even jokingly, he was just expressing his frustration with certain aspects of filmmaking. Stop bigging yourselves up, the word FAG is a common word for everybodys language. But you have to understand that when people say FAG, they aren’t necessarily talking about homosexuals. Theyre talking about someone they hat, have none of you seen the South Park episode “The F Word”? GOD! People that take offense to something they shouldnt take offense to frustrate me.
He was thoughtless to use a word like that regardless of his meaning but Its Freedom of Speech, move on.
Tyler, of course Freedom of Speech allows people to say anything they want. Nobody’s saying Ratner should be arrested or deported.
But having the freedom to say anything we want doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect consequences from organizations where our image reflects on our jobs and the organization itself.
Put it to you this way: if I posted rants on the main page using ugly hurtful epithets that insulted lots of readers, how long do you think Sasha would keep me around?
Ratner said exactly what he wanted. That’s his right. It’s his employer’s right to fire him for unacceptable behavior, for being an unfit representative of the AMPAS.
That the Academy shrugs this off with no repercussions now makes them complicit in Ratner’s attitude. It’s tacit approval: “ah, that’s ok, Brett. Say whatever you want. Don’t worry about it bothering anybody, least of all the Board of Governors.”
It’s a blunder for Ratner and a far worse blunder for the Academy to let it go as if it’s no big deal.
Yeah, they’re all moving on. And that’s a pathetic reaction.
See my Comment #79 on the earlier post on Ratner. I argue that Sherak should also be removed.
By not firing Brett Ratner, AMPAS is sending a clear & concise message: “We tolerate homophobia and/or use of related pejoratives”. This is simply unacceptable.
Academy Members who are Gay or Lesbian should protest(and probably will) by voting for Clint Eastwood’s latest masterpiece “J.Edgar” which is HUGELY gay in every category they can. Ratter just handed “J. Edgar” A SLEW of Oscar nominations!
But we have to keep the heat on them, or as usual, they won’t do anything!
Is it a new thing that fag became a bad word, like in the last two years?
His comments are endlessly stupid and degenerate but
I personally think bloggers are giving him an extra inch of a hard time because he’s got no talent. I mean, X-men the Last Stand, really? My grandma can direct a better version of this and she’s not even a fan.
If we’re lucky and he indeed gets fired, maybe the Academy can also ask some winners to return their Oscars back, as well as terminate their membership, that would be the real thing, I’m telling ya!
The Actors section needs a rigid, massive trimming and it needs it right now, before they start with their stupid nominations and before people on the news begin with the “she’s paid her dues” comments or “considering his/her career, he/she deserves IT more than anyone” remarks!
I’d rather he got fired for being a terrible director.
And I agree that in that interview he also said offensive comments about women and Asians… But his comments are irrelevant because he’s a bitter hack.
I don’ t find his comments offensive at all. I’m a heterosexual and I deeply feel for gays and lesbians who have and still are persecuted for no other reason than being themselves. I’m not offended because firstly, I don’t believe he meant it to come out that way, and secondly I believe the vast majority of people not only accept homosexuality but don’t give it a second thought. There’s always going to be the hate crowd, but they exist in some shape or form for…basically all and sundry.
I appose people who say NO to gay marriage, but I won’t crucify and person for an ill-conceived comment who for all I know may advocate gay marriage. He’s worked with Ian Mckellan, Patrick Stewart..he’s probably not a raging homophobe.
I’m not saying that you should let hit comments go by the wayside, just be constructive, and let’s not hang people out to dry without a bloody good reason. He knows he misspoke and by kicking him when he’s down ( ie demand he loses his livelihood) what chance will he have at redemption.
BTW – I live in Oz where people may be slightly north or south, but very rarely hardline. So apologies in advance if I offended people who are doing it tough.
I’m in the graduate film program at UCLA. Everyone is horrified by Ratner’s comment (what real artist would even make a comment like that, even in jest?) Everyone is seriously pissed that the Academy is giving him a free pass. I thought Dawn Hudson was hired to diversify the awards, not hire a trashy homophobic douchebag? Are they afraid they’ll lose Murphy if they lose Ratner? Who cares. Lost them both if necessary.
But of course Sherak stays by him. Do you remember 2006? It was five years ago and I was just a kid and I remember the real outrage, because for the first time in my life I realized how things actually were. Sid Gaines was asked about the Brokeback Mountain scandal and the journalist asked him if it weren’t appropriate to actually do something because of voters telling they wouldn’t watch a best picture nominee. That was after the Crash fiasco. And he said something like: Well, I can’t tell them how to vote. And I get so many letters that it’s a shame Brokeback is winning anything etc etc. So pretty much he didn’t care. They don’t care. Sid Gaines did so much damage to this Academy. Half of the most idiotic mistakes ever made are done by this man. And Sherak is so much following in his footsteps. It’s a real shame.
What I don’t understand is why he got a a pass for his astoundingly vulgar and inappropriate remarks of a few days ago about “banging” some young actress and naming her by name. Am I old fashioned or something? So this doesn’t surprise me at all. Should he be fired? I think that Academy should have taken notice of the “banged her” remarks and that this should be strike two (technically) and then they they should decide just how many strikes he should be allowed to get. Chances actually are that if he produced both of these gaffs in less than a week that he won’t be able to keep his mouth shut until the telecast.
The whole “free speech” line of argument is specious. This is an industry of image and when you have a job like that what you say in public reflects on the Academy, that’s just basic stuff.
Brett Ratner should be fired because he’s a hack who has no business being associated with any kind of celebration of filmmaking excellence. If this incident can be used as an excuse to undo the terrible decision to hire him I’m all for it.
That said I am a believer in the notion that what people do in their private lives (I.E. things they do while not at their jobs) are frankly none of their employer’s business and that they shouldn’t be fired for anything that that doesn’t actually have anything to do with their work. If we’re going to support the Mel Gibsons and Roman Polanskis of the world being employed as filmmakers (which I do), I see no reason why a dude who said “fag” while trying to sound like a jock deserves to get canned from producing an award show.
I am so sick of cruelty being passed of as mere thoughtlessness and ignorance, and therefor a casual misdemeanor. I hope they do replace Ratner.
On another note: Clint Eastwood is on the Daily Show tonite. I wonder if the topic will come up….
Exactly Scott, Ryan, I am really grateful that you and Sasha stand up against this kind of stuff publicly. I am an older gay man, and have to say, I see a lot of gay men saying things like “I don’t mean to make a fuss…but” when calling out homophobic or bullying or intolerant behaviors. You don’t need to say that. Ryan, if people think you are behaving like a hothead when you are taking a stand against intolerance, it is their problem. You should never, ever feel like you have to apologize for doing that. This is how change – and activism – happens, so bravo.
I agree with some comments in that I do, wholeheartedly, believe in freedom of speech, but with that freedom comes an obligation to respect others, and to man-up and accept the consequences if you make a hurtful slur in public.
That word is a trigger, for sure. Most of you saw BBM, but a few of us lived through that period. It was followed by the AIDS crisis when I lost my entire circle of close friends (all of them), all during the time when the feeling in the general public was “it’s their own fault.” The bullying continues to this day, and that word is the signal that triggers a sick reflex.
I know the use of the word is not always intended to be hurtful, or directly mean gay, as such, but it has worked its way into the conversational fabric so deeply that, unless you are or were once a target of hate, it doesn’t mean much. To many, however, it is the equivalent to seeing a swastika painted on a wall or a burning cross on a lawn.
I don’t want sympathy and we aren’t interested in apologies after the fact. Abandon that word, that’s all.
Ratner can say whatever he likes – no argument there – and I’m not preaching for change, but each of us has to realize that some things just aren’t funny. I’ve been watching the oscar show since before this fratboy clown was born. This year, unfortunately, that comment will keep creeping back, especially during bits that look unrehearsed.
Say what you like between friends, Brett – just make sure the mike is off.
When spoken by a straight white man the word “fag” is very offensive to me and no, the straight white men can not claim this word is harmless after many gay men have been tormented, beaten and even killed hearing that word as part of an attack. You are no fuming hothead Ryan. I appreciate your willingness to stand up for what is unacceptable.
Sorry, Ryan Adams, I meant to be responding to “R,” not to you. Pardon the mixup. I believe my response makes a lot more sense read in this light. To “parallel” not to “compare,” no?
That’s ok, TeeJ.
I wasn’t trying to butt heads with you. I respond to people who never asked me anything all the time.
😉
(and you’re right : “parallel” is a better word for what I had in mind.)
@teej,
Just wanna clear up that there is no conclusive origin of the word “faggot” referring to homosexual men. The burning sticks thing is an unsubstantiated myth. Don’t mean to be a pretentious jerk and hope I am not coming off as one…it’s just a pet peeve of mine that people spread a false origin for the word and I like to educate as much as I can about.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
1. Mark Harris is always good and I love what he’s saying. I’m not sure how I feel this should play out, but I love that article.
2. “I’m not trying to compare the two groups of people, TeeJ. I’m comparing the hatred that — for me — is lowest common denominator in comparing two venomous words.”
Bless you, Ryan. These words are the issue and that’s what I (with so many more) are fighting for today.
Um, “R” says:
“The problem is that fag isnt the n word for gays like they want it to be. I hear it daily to mean jerk or idiot or a tool. You are way off if you think brett ratner was saying this to go against gay people.”
Well, I bet you’d change your tune if you’d been called “fag” out of hate for most of your life and that word was almost always associated with violence being perpetrated against you, whether physical, emotional or both. The word “fag” — no matter the intention — is a trigger word that for many, many gay men is a red flag indicating something very bad. Why make this seem like the “gays” are just desperate for something to complain about? UGH.
As a gay guy I would just say that I’ve heard a lot worse and from people a lot more important to me than Brett Ratner. Perhaps what we should learn from this discourse is that, as they say in “Louie,” say what you want, get your laughs, but know that every gay man in America has probably had that shouted at him whilst being beat up. Also, the word derives from older times, when they used to burn gay people with the discarded sticks – the faggots. So, say it, if you want, just know what other people are hearing.
Also, comparing it to the “n-word” is not constructive in any way. You can’t compare the suffering of two marginalized groups of people. Both have tragic pasts and both words are incredibly hurtful. We get nowhere by comparing pains. Let’s all just hurt together.
You can’t compare the suffering of two marginalized groups of people.
I’m not trying to compare the two groups of people, TeeJ. I’m comparing the hatred that — for me — is the lowest common denominator in comparing two venomous words.
I can make another comparison — George Junius Stinney and Matthew Shepard. No need to decide which of those two young men suffered worse, is there?
“The problem is that fag isnt the n word for gays like they want it to be. I hear it daily to mean jerk or idiot or a tool. You are way off if you think brett ratner was saying this to go against gay people.”
And… part of the problem.
I get quite upset about this issue actually. I don’t think anyone should be fired or shamed into stepping down over a choice of words. I don’t care what word it is. I don’t care if the word could be used to describe or insult me. I just strongly believe in free speech. I don’t appreciate the thought police going around telling anyone what they can say or think because I certainly don’t want them to do it to me.
I’m not a fan of Brett Ratner’s. His movies aren’t really my thing. I did see Tower Heist this weekend. It was pretty weak. Hearing that he said this doesn’t surprise me. I think he has a certain type of personality that wouldn’t be the best for self-editing given his current position as Oscar producer. So I’m not shocked in the least. I also think when he said what he said he basically meant “Rehearsal’s for wimps” not “Rehearsal’s for gay men who I currently wish to slur.” I also know that those who are offended by that don’t want to hear it and I understand that the word upsets some people no matter what. I’m not the kind of person who gets offended by words. When people want the N-word banned, again, it bothers me. These are words. People have the right to them no matter how repugnant the rest of us might find them. Once you start down the slippery slope of banning words where will it end? I don’t want to find out.
I think anyone who is offended by Brett Ratner absolutely has the right to be. They should exercise their freedom to despise him, boycott his movies, whatever. Go on twitter and tear him a new one. I support that right wholeheartedly too. If the Academy want to fire him, that’s their right. If he wants to step down that’s his right. But the idea that it’s becoming some kind of cultural given that every time someone says something offensive they have to join the unemployed bothers me a lot. If I want my freedoms I feel like I have to defend the freedoms of others. But mind you if someone said something like “I hate *******.” and they meant that they hate gay people, then I would personally dislike them because of it. And that would be my right.
Kevin Klawitter,
You obviously do not understand fully, neither Ricky Gervais’s particular brand of comedy nor Brat Ratner’s rancid misogyny and homophobia.
Just another example of the beautiful nature of our freedom speech. People like Ratner have every right in the world to say whatever he wants, its in the first ammendment, and people like Mark Harris have every right to retort remarks like that. Offensive or not, tasteful or distasteful, I might not agree with Ratner’s use of language but I will gladly defend his right to say it until my dying breath. Last time I checked this is America.
That being said I’m pretty sure most people who frequent this site have been against putting someone of Ratner’s credibility at the helm of the telecast since the announcement was made, myself included. If he gets fired, awesome, we hopefully get a better replacement.
The problem is that fag isnt the n word for gays like they want it to be. I hear it daily to mean jerk or idiot or a tool. You are way off if you think brett ratner was saying this to go against gay people.
Anybody who claims Jeff Wells is making excuses for Ratner either just a liar, someone of low reading comprehension or Dave Poland.
I don’t have high expectations for this year’s show, ESPECIALLY after this comment hit the web. Hopefully Murphy will be able to salvage it if necessary.
The Academy is standing by Ratner via Deadline
More telling, Academy president Tom Sherak tells Deadline he’s standing by Ratner, for now. Sherak is quoted saying, “His remarks were inappropriate. He said it best in his apology, that his comments were dumb and insensitive. When you think of our community, it went against all the beliefs of the creative community we represent. He knew it was wrong and he issued that response as quickly as any human being ever has. The bottom line is, this won’t and can’t happen again. It will not happen again. He apologized and we will move forward. How do I know this? I’ve known this man for a very long time. He has many friends who are members of the gay and lesbian community. The apology he gave I truly believe comes from his heart. If it didn’t believe it, I would do something about it. This is about integrity and honoring the Academy Awards, but we all make mistakes and I believe he didn’t mean it.”
Why do I have a feeling that if, say, Ricky Gervais had said that people would be supporting him and claiming that those outraged “couldn’t take a joke”?
Yeah, Ratner should be fired.
He should not direct Wicked!!
A quick apology makes it all better? He should still be fired. He screwed up. Anything less is the Academy condoning this sort of attitude. If it had been the N word, not only would he not be hosting the Oscars, he’d be working at Wal-Mart. There’s no difference.
it was probably just a PR move to make people forget that he caught shrimp by sleeping with Olivia Munn.
I know I am not entitled to be surprised by Ratner’s remark. But I do reserve the right to be offended by it.
I don’t know whether the Academy will fire him but again, I know I won’t be entitled to be surprised if they don’t. But we all reserve the right to be offended if they don’t.
“This gives the Oscars ‘street cred.'”
Cred for what, exactly?
Disgraceful behavior. However, the word “fire” should ALWAYS precede “Brett Ratner.”
OT :
Zhang Yimou’s expensive (90M budget) ‘The Flowers of War’ (China’s official best foreign language film entry) starring Christian Bale, WILL get an Oscar-qualifying run this year.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/christian-bale-xhang-yimou-flowers-war-wreckin-hill-258304
The Iron Lady gets pushed back to the very last minute, December 30…brilliant campaign move to avoid the usual earlypeaksyndrome Streep always faces OR the film is bad and they are just trying to delay the reviews ?
http://www.deadline.com/2011/11/streeps-iron-lady-gets-end-of-year-release-date/
Tom Sherak should first find out whether Ratner is a Democrat or a Republican.
If he is a Democrat, it is forgiveable and he stays; it is par for the course–that’s just how they act. They can utter anything with impunity.
But if he is a Republican, public execution is too good–he goes.
Doubt he’ll be fired. This gives the Oscars “street cred.” He’s a “comedian.” He was “making a joke.” That’ll be the PR spin.
I actually was, more kindly disposed to Ratner than ser, because “Tower Heist”, while not great, is the first one of his films I have much enjoyed on the popcorn level it was shooing for. There’s a place for that kons.of movie. But, at very best he’s made a complete fool of himself with this asinine and offensive remark.
Anyone disgusted about this, call The Academy to let them know your thoughts: (310) 247-3000
They will take and appreciate your call.
So we gonna pretend rush hour isn’t a great popcorn movie. Lol at pretentious elites goofing on ratner talents. It’s more about his fratboy personality than his movies it seems
It’s also hilarious to see who can win the award for most outraged. Film bloggers Tryna outdo eachother.
I think “X-The Last Class” is reason enough to fire and ban Ratner.
Why in the world did they hire him in the first place? He makes terrible fims, he is a moron, this just proves it yet again. The person that hired him in the first place should be fired as well.
He should be banned from directing the oscars alone because of not doing rehearsals. How bad could this show get? Man, man, man…
I agree with Harris about the all too frequent use of the “mea-not-quite-culpas” (a nicely coined term, by the way!) in cases like this one. It is certainly a sine qua non of the political realm these days, which is a sad development.
boycott Jeff Wells.
I agree he needs to be fired, but I also hope the Academy is not let off the hook by just letting him step down. They made the decision to hire him they should have to fire him.
Also the fact that Jeff Wells is making some sort of excuse for Ratner is pretty gross.
Amen.