Oscars 2012 – The Artist Gets Some Heat from The Help
Last night’s SAG awards were the first time during their guild run that The Artist didn’t win. They weren’t expected to win, mind you but Kris Tapley and I thought at the last minute The Artist’s ensemble win might signal an early sweep of the Oscars, as it did with Slumdog Millionaire. Last year’s King’s Speech won the major guild awards – the Directors, Producers and Actors Guilds — but even it did not sweep the Oscars the way Slumdog did. The ensemble win, we figured, would be the one win for the Artist, since it couldn’t go home empty handed. Turns out it didn’t because Jean DuJardin, my no guts, no glory pick yet again, won. George Clooney was generally presumed to win the award for his impressive, moving turn in The Descendants. But almost everyone else expected The Help to prevail, being that it is, above all things, an ensemble work to beat all other ensembles. So what we’re probably looking at more is a split of the awards across the board rather than a major sweep. What and how they’ll split remains the mystery. Oscar ballots have not yet gone out. (They’ll be mailed Wednesday, February 1.) Things feel fluid, shakable, not stable, not locked, especially since there are three weeks or so to go before those final ballots have to be turned in. (On Tuesday, February 21.) This is usually the time when things start to get ugly.
It was both surprising and not surprising that Jean Dujardin won the Best Actor award. Though a reader (whom I then unfriended) ridiculed me on Facebook for referencing Alec Baldwin’s tweet that “Jean Dujardin should win every award,” there is no denying that the main reason The Artist works as well as it does is because of Dujardin’s charm. Hazanavicius knows this – he needed two very expressive actors to convey emotion broadly enough that there would be no need for words. Dujardin does not just play the part as a winking, sly comic — he nails the more serious scenes, too — the shame, the humility that goes along with being someone who learns all too well that pride goeth before the fall. It’s a wonderful performance and well deserving of a win. Though it’s worth saying that George Clooney gives the performance of his career so far in The Descendants. It isn’t just the crying scene. It’s much more about the quieter scenes struggling to communicate with his daughters, to not fall apart FOR his daughters, and to eventually discover who he is along the way. Voters might get a bigger high, though, voting for Dujardin because he is less known than Clooney.
The Clooney votes were bound to have been diluted by his buddy Brad’s equally wonderful, career best performance in Moneyball. Pitt carries Moneyball much the way Dujardin carries the Artist, only it isn’t in black and white and it isn’t French. Pitt’s Billy Beane is one of the best things about this whole year and if it were me voting I’d have a hard time deciding between these three actors. Add to the mix the brilliant Demian Bichir and Michael Fassbender and you have a very strong split vote — the popularity of the Artist carried Dujardin through. What, then, will happen at the Oscars? It’s anyone’s game but Dujardin automatically gets the edge because of his two wins — the Globe win and then the SAG win. His speech was moving enough, and he was charming enough, that voters will want to see him on stage again.
The Best Actor race is as difficult to call as the Best Adapted Screenplay race. Actually, both screenplay races feel odd. I don’t know if the de facto Best Picture frontrunner, The Artist, will pick up screenplay, even though it has done for the past many years. I don’t know if the film that leads the nominations, the beautifully written Hugo, will prevail, or whether this category will be The Descendants’ big win. Or whether Moneyball, which is probably the best, most tightly written script of the bunch, will take the prize. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy has both the advantage of being a beloved book, and not to sound crass, but one of the writers, Bridget O’Connor, died of breast cancer before the film hit theaters. Or will George Clooney be rewarded in Screenplay for The Ides of March? It is a toss up, that category.
And last, the history-making wins of Viola Davis and Octavia Spencer, and the ensemble win of The Help was the high point of the night, not just because their speeches were so magnificent, moving and unforgettable but because whenever you watch history being made you feel the power of what these silly and otherwise pointless awards shows can sometimes do: move the needle ever so slightly.
No doubt, there will be blow back from both the white and black communities. To my mind, what white people think doesn’t matter. What the black community thinks does matter. The Help is kicking up the kind of heated discussions that always get kicked up when racism rises to the surface. We all hope it’s been banished forever, but at times like these, and in watching the GOP primary battle go down, it’s evident that race is still very much a sore subject here in America. What I see, though, is that the white actors never get punished but the black actors do. Because of the general offense of the whole noble savage/white person saves black person and magical negro templates, projects that would ordinarily be cast with black actors, and women, and Asians and Latinos have to be run through the politically correct mill on top of every other obstacle they face. And yes, on the one hand that is satisfying to minorities who are sick of the racist stereotypying the Help has been accused of. And yes, on the one hand it makes white people uncomfortable to support something they worry might promote racial stereotyping. But guess who then has to pay the price? White actors? White writers? White filmmakers? Nope.
What I do know is that the subject makes people uncomfortable – white people and black people, Hispanics and Asians — even those labels make people uncomfortable. But when you’re talking about economics, power in Hollywood and the A-List you have to start thinking about opening more doors than closing them. I was accused of riding a high-horse of moral superiority and that’s a slap in the face I can take. In fact, I can take a whole lot more than that because I’ve been watching this ongoing dialogue between the black community and the white community for over twenty years now — especially as it relates to the Oscar race. And what do I see now in the year 2012? I see no one even wanting to make The Color Purple for fear of politically correct white folk telling them it’s not their story to tell and then I see Hollywood not allowing or wanting black storytellers to tell those same stories, and I see the critics panning films and stories by black filmmakers. A conundrum, non?
And then finally, you have the “she’s only winning because she’s black” argument, the biggest insult of all. The best performances in The Help are far and away Viola Davis and Octavia Spencer. I have been more moved by the two of them then by any female performances this year with the possible exception of Rooney Mara and Tilda Swinton. I can admire the dedication and technique in the other performances but for me, a great performance blows through the soul.
If Davis and Spencer both win at the Oscars — highly unlikely — I don’t know if it will change the face of Hollywood. I don’t know if anything will. To my mind, the best female performances won last night. And maybe in the end that is the only thing that matters.
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“If Davis and Spencer both win at the Oscars — highly unlikely — I don’t know if it will change the face of Hollywood.”
really? why do you think it’s unlikely? after last night’s showering of prizes onto the cast of “the help”, it seems almost inevitable. in addition to both actresses clearly being loved by their peers and huge support for the film, it was a huge box office hit.
Sasha,
I am glad that you finally recognised some legitimacy to the outcry from the black community about The Help. To me, Viola Davis is playing the long suffering magical negro in The Help, a role closely aligned to her character in Doubt.
From an acting point of view, Viola does not stretch herself. Maid Aibileen and Ms. Miller are the same. Viola could have walked from one set and into the other and no one would notice the different. This long suffering schtick is something Viola has done over and over again and has, alas, exhausted all the layers to that persona.
I refuse, vehemently, refuse to support this movie and its performances because of its stereotypical depiction of black women( sassy mammy, long-suffering god-fearing woman etc). The performances are not very good to be honest. They are sentimental at best and follow the how-to-play-a-black-maid guidebook diligently. Nothing new, nothing inventive. Just the typical white guilt-easing tactics to draw all the liberal white women to the theaters. No ma’am.
I agree that Viola and Octavia gave two of the best performances of the year. I had thought SAG was gonna give it Streep for THE IRON LADY but was still delighted and thrilled to see Viola get it. While I admire the performances in THE HELP, they was it sugarcoats some of the issues in the south, it always brings to mind another wonderful film from the early 90′s called THE LONG WALK HOME starring Whoopi Goldberg as a maid in the south who works for Sissy Spacek, who coincidentally also appears in THE HELP. Even though it’s been more than two decades, the impact THE LONG WALK HOME and those amazing performances from Goldberg and Spacek had on me, especially the final scene where Goldberg is being violently screamed at by a mob of white men, she she slowly walks forward and stands, signifying that she isn’t moving. They the women behind her step forward and being to sing, as they all hold hands and unite together amongst the chaos of the racism and hatred being spewed at them. It literally brought me to tears. It’s a powerful movie. Whereas with THE HELP, I was simply moved but not blown away. I still very much respect the actor’s performances but the film is not a film I will remember years from now.
“If Davis and Spencer both win at the Oscars — highly unlikely — I don’t know if it will change the face of Hollywood.”
It’s pretty likely they’ll both win.
Is it highly unlikely that both will win Oscars? Octavia seems all but certain, and Viola seems like a heavy frontrunner at this point? Am I missing something?
Here’s a link to the video of the scene I was talking about from THE LONG WALK HOME. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZoO7J65T6w
Extremely happy for Jean Dujardin! When I checked the news this morning at my working place it really gave me enough élan vital to overcome the usual monday morning blues!
I believe it will come down to a pretty close race between Dujardin and Clooney (who is still an Academy darling, so nooen should goodbye his chances). Saw “The Descendants” on Sunday, quite liked it, no masterpiece, but some moving scenes and pretty good acting. But in comparison, I would vote for Dujardin, at the drop of a hat.
The other categories: Streep vs. Davis, but latter has the edge. I think Streep´s biggest handicap is her movie – Davis has “The Help”, and for some strange reason many people seem to love it. I´m pretty sceptical about the quality of the film, Viola Davis is great. I´ve no objection against her winning.
But “The Help” has absolutely no chance in hell (which surely freezes over at first) for winning “Best Picture”, no shot at all.
The only film that is a threat for “The Artist” is “Hugo”.
But we know that before the SAGs, didn´t we?
“Add to the mix the brilliant Demian Bichir and Michael Fassbender and you have a very strong split vote”
Ummm…Sasha, I know you might be bitter about the Fassbender snub, but for the last time, he did not get nominated for the Oscar, Gary Oldman did. Oldman’s chance of winning the Oscar is as good as mine, but at least don’t deny the man his (much-overdue) Oscar nomination. Wait, let me just clarify – it is Best Actor at the Oscars you’re talking about, right? In that case, Fassy isn’t there. I know it’s not fair, but…
[blah blah blah blah whine blah blah blah blah blah whine]
I don’t see many readers here – or elsewhere – actually saying Davis (or Spencer – for some reason she is often left out of this discussion) is ONLY winning because they are black. My angle would be somewhat different: A lot of voters might respond positive to a black actress being up for this kind of honor, because they RARELY get to vote for black actors or actresses in these categories. That’s my view (It’s also Scott Feinberg’s by the way, who stated yesterday in his analysis that voters are “undoubtedly attracted” to Davis because she is black. Nothing controversial about that).
I don’t like the self-righteousness of Davis’ speeches, but that’s my only qualm about her. She deserves a win (when you consider who she is up against), and likewise Spencer, who is so much more than just comic relief in The Help (a second viewing made me realize that).
Hollywood has nothing to be ashamed about if it awards these two fine actresses, who do fine acting in a so-so movie.
[blah blah blah blah]
The Help can’t win, can it – with only 4 nominations in THREE categories? So what do you say about “heat from “The Help”? This cast award is meaningless.
i don’t think anyone is serious about davis “only winning because she’s black”. you’d have to be pretty disgustingly racist to utter such a sentence. i do however think after last night’s awards that davis is definitely milking the race card, encouraging people to vote for her as if it’s her fate, as if her win would actually mean anything in terms of black actresses getting more work in hollywood. it’s just a meaningless award after all. she, like other performers, is a bit grandiose about her award recognition. it’s a smart strategy, if a little transparent.
@knee play: [deleted] Say, she was portraying Tilda Swinton’s character in ‘We Need To Talk About Kevin’, would the race issue have been so prominent?
and her strategy is clearly working because nowhere in the article was there even one mention of plummer, an older white man who played gay who also won last night.
“To me, Viola Davis is playing the long suffering magical negro in The Help”
Um….what? What I loved about her performance is that it could have been silent and we would know exactly what she was saying and thinking….its really a great performance – you see the exhaustion and the pain in her eyes, you see in her posture the weight of the world…
i’m not sure i understand the question, divya. are you asking if she’d play the race card up as much if she was winning for “we need to talk about kevin”? probably not. but “the help” is very much “issue movie” (and why i think she’ll ultimately get the oscar) and she’s wisely playing that up into her campaign strategy.
What I’d like to know is would Viola Davis have milked the race card if she was part of some other film,
Any more comments that use the phrase “playing the race card” in relation to Viola Davis and her speech will be deleted.
Sick of this shit. This her life and heart she’s pouring out. Get the fuck over it.
Viola Davis’ acting touched me. At the end of the movie, when she left the girl she had been taking care of. I could clearly see her emotion of sorrow and happiness at the same time. It was just brilliant! I hope she continues to triumph at the Oscars.
“If Davis and Spencer both win at the Oscars — highly unlikely….”
But possible.
If not, it could be Streep/Spencer or
Davis/Bejo.
Deena Jones’ wig -
Add to the two characters you mentioned her role as a maid in “Far From Heaven.” Same acting as in “The Help” but just screen time limited.
She is winning because she is brilliant, not because she is black.
I am sick and tired of this “racial prejudice”. Get over it already.
I don’t agree that it is highly unlikely that both Spencer and Davis will walk home with Oscars at the ceremony. I think they are beloved actors who gave great performances and their colleagues will want to honor them. I am not a fan of the film but you can’t deny what great performance these two give. My critiques of the film don’t matter, the academy loves it.
Spencer’s seems in the bag but I think voters will want to go with Davis more than they will want to honor the others, despite them all being great performances. Sure Williams or Streep could win but I don’t think this is their year. Williams is still seen as a working actress who has plenty of opportunities before her and no one thinks this is Streep’s last chance. The academy doesn’t love either of their films as much as they love The Help.
I also think Dujardin has a likely shot. Clooney’s already got an Oscar and, once again, no one thinks this is his last shot. Do they love his movie as much as they love The Artist? Plummer is finally going to get his Oscar. He and Spencer should be getting a place ready on their mantles. I don’t think Davis and Dujardin have much to worry about either.
I don’t think this is the acting branch’s way of signaling The Help is their favorite film. I think Dujardin’s win is a sign the love The Artist was well. I think we are going to see Artist win the big prizes and The Help bring home the gold for its actors.
@knee play: yes, that’s exactly what I’m asking…
Also, I’m not saying she should win the Oscar ‘cos she’s black (‘cos that’s worse than racism), but don’t put race ahead of performance is what I’m saying. She should win only if and because she was good enough to win. If Meryl Streep wins, well, so be it. But Davis’ victory should not be ‘due to the race factor’. I know that’s easy to say, but that’s what I personally would’ve liked.
” Just the typical white guilt-easing tactics to draw all the liberal white women to the theaters. No ma’am.”
I am just laughing at your comment. Just laughing.
Having seen Viola Davis’ towering, unforgettable performances onstage in NYC in “Fences”(she won a Tony, her second) and “Intimate Apparel” both plays written by African American playwrights. The late August Wilson Pulitzer Prize winner and Lynn Notage’s breakthrough drama about a black seamtress at the turn of the last century. Those were such overwhelming, non-stereotypical performances that Abilene in the “Help seems like Viola Davis was almost phoning it in, by comparison.
And I certainly DO hope that her performance in “Fences” and also “Intimate Apparel” get someday make it to the screen and so everyone can see what a great actress sheTRULY is.
Also, SAG is a VERY America-first union award, and so “The Help” is very, very much a likely winner from them against a group of French people in “The Artist.”
But for Jean Dujardin to win BEST ACTOR from them, a newbie and a foreigner(he’s a big box-office star in France, and has been for years)is REALLY extraordinary. And that PLUS the Globe win, puts him in the lead now, for “The Artist” I feel. We’ll have to see what happens at the BAFTAS.
If Davis/Dujardin/Plummer/Spencer win at the BAFTAS, then they’ll all for sure win at the Oscars, I feel.
With only four nominations for “The Help” and three of them acting nods, it doesn’t have the across the branches(Anne Thompson’s phrase) support that the “Artist” does.
The Help’s three SAG wins is phenomenal, of course, but again, it’s the Actors giving it to them. And SAG has an equal balance of male and female voters. In fact, it may have more women than men. There ARE more actresses historically than actors. It’s true. Whereas AMPAS is predominantely male.
If Davis wins the BAFTA, or if Streep or Williams(both in British made films) win, it keeps the Best Actress race really,well, competitive.
And if Jean Dujardin wins at BAFTA, George Clooney’s 2nd Oscar is toast.
He’s never won a SAG award, and neither has Brad Pitt OR Leo DiCaprio(who didn’t even show up.)
I say Meryl for the win by virtue of performance-worth only and not for any garbage (overdue, color, opportunity, Swank, Bullock, bad movie, etc) that’s thrown around.
However, nobody can deny that Viola is so likeable that you would want to root for her instead.
There’s still the high possibility Davis loses to Streep and Spencer to Chastain (remember, people voting at the Oscars will see The Tree of Life, too). I wouldn’t be in shock.
Plus, the SAG were actors voting on actors, Oscar will see everyone voting on everything.
plus, if Du Jardin wins, he’ll join Christopher Waltz, Javier Bardem, Penelope Cruz and Marion Cotillard as the non-anglosaxon european actors winning in the last decade…
ryan, i’d really to know why you’re so defensive about this subject. they’re awards. it’s business. it’s all strategy. some people are simply trying to discuss strategies in a logical manner and you get carried away by emotion, delete comments and drop F-bombs. i don’t get it,
Yeah, why is it highly unlikely that both Viola and Octavia won’t both win? I think that is absurd! Not only is it a chance to reward 2 outstanding performances from a much loved movie (and book) + it was a box office hit – BUT, that it’s possible history in the making, right? Quite possibly the first 2 African American women (or is it overall ladies) winning from the same film?
“And if Jean Dujardin wins at BAFTA, George Clooney’s 2nd Oscar is toast.”
Nah.
Remember Gangs of New York? Daniel Day Lewis won both SAG and BAFTA, and look what happened?
Nothing is absolute and certain. The only sure thing is The Artist winning Best Picture and Director.
The majority of BAFTA members do not vote for the Oscars, they’ve always tried to predict the Oscars, just like other critics groups.
She is winning because she is brilliant, not because she is black.
I am sick and tired of this “racial prejudice”. Get over it already.
They should be ashamed of themselves, anyone who says that.
knee play
There is no “strategy”
You are the one who makes this award season into a political game as if you are GOP or something.
Your “race card” issue is laughable, pretentious. Get over it.
The Help can’t win, can it – with only 4 nominations in THREE categories? So what do you say about “heat from “The Help”? This cast award is meaningless.
Meaningless enough to make you write that? Hm.
knee play
“playing the race card” is an ugly offensive phrase and in the case of a black person’s right to speak about their life experience it’s repulsive. and not even correct usage. you show sadly poor grasp of the concept.
for you to suggest it’s strategy is disgusting. Your attitude is disgusting to me.
To me, Viola Davis is playing the long suffering magical negro in The Help, a role closely aligned to her character in Doubt.
And that’s Davis’ fault, I suppose. So let’s just keep ALL projects from getting made because the WHITE RIGHT and BLACK RIGHT projects aren’t getting made. You have to start somewhere. You know how actors do big budget films to get the power and clout to make what they want? Follow the breadcrumbs, my friend.
Just the typical white guilt-easing tactics to draw all the liberal white women to the theaters. No ma’am.
Agreed. So let’s just close the door on those movies because the last you want is for black actors to make a film that makes enough money to give them more power in Hollywood. Let’s keep down by raising the standards so high they can never be attained, and will never satisfy anyone. Here’s a thought: get out of their way.
of course there’s a strategy to any campaign. meryl has the overdue factor that’s again being played up, michelle has let herself be objectified by appearing semi-nude in recent photo spreads to play up the sex kitten card (just like winslet before her). unfortunately the narratives these women create for themselves completely take away from their performances and presents them as one-dimensional individuals to sell themselves, which i find appallingly sexist. at least to me.
She’s winning only because she’s black huh? So why didn’t these actors win? not black enough?
Dorothy Dandridge, 1955, Carmen Jones
Diana Ross, 1973, Lady Sings the Blues
Cicely Tyson, 1973, Sounder
Diahann Carroll, 1975, Claudine
Angela Bassett, 1994, What’s Love Got to Do With It
Gabourey Sidibe, 2010, Precious
Best Supporting Actress
Ethel Waters, 1950, Pinky
Juanita Moore, 1960, Imitation of Life
Alfre Woodard, 1984, Cross Creek
Oprah Winfrey, 1986, The Color Purple
Margaret Avery, 1986, The Color Purple
Queen Latifah, 2003, Chicago
Sophie Okenedo, 2005, Hotel Rwanda
Ruby Dee, 2008, American Gangster
Taraji P. Henson 2009, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Best Actor
James Earl Jones, 1971, The Great White Hope
Paul Winfield, 1973, Sounder
Morgan Freeman, 1990, Driving Miss Daisy
Laurence Fishburne, 1994, What’s Love Got to Do with It
Will Smith, 2002, Ali
Don Cheadle, 2005, Hotel Rwanda
Terence Howard, 2006, Hustle & Flow
Will Smith, 2007, The Pursuit of Happyness
Best Supporting Actor
Howard E. Rollins, Jr., 1982, Ragtime
Adolph Caesar, 1985, A Soldier’s Story
Samuel L. Jackson, 1995, Pulp Fiction
Michael Clarke Duncan, 2000, The Green Mile
Djimon Hounsou, 2004, In America
Djimon Hounsou 2007, Blood Diamond
Eddie Murphy 2007, Dreamgirls
Don’t really care about the whole race thing, I feel Davis had the best performance in lead and Chastain in supporting, but I could accept Spencer as the winner there.
However, I would really dislike it if The Help would win Best Picture, the reason why is explained here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2012/jan/18/oscars-the-help-pariah-golden-globes by someone who can explain it much better than I ever could. Even though I like the performances, the movie as a whole is so incredibly and annoyingly “Hollywood”. Like they’re just throwing around some overused PC clichés for the liberal Academy to play around with.
I have lost all interest. None of the movies with chances to win at this point thrill me.
I was a little surprised they had Viola speak again and so soon instead of Chastain or Stone. Even throw the bone to unawared (I think) Tyson as the veteran cast member or even Lowell as the only male.
keep it up, knee play.
you make me sad, you make me sick.
I just wonder how many more people get to pass in front of Streep before she’s allowed to win again.
I’m really tired of Jeff not giving a crap if spoilers are discussed during the podcasts.
Screw that! he says when Sasha questios editing out spoiler talk on The Grey. I’ve already ignored some podcasts in the past because of discussions that were started on movies that us “regular folk” hadn’t seen because they weren’t even out yet. It’s fine if the movie is out, then it’s on us to see it, but hopefully you guys care a little about not spoiling the movie experience for us.
Sasha
Let’s not close the door on those white guilt-easing movies but showering their mediocre screenplays and passable performances with awards does ABSOLUTELY nothing to change the status quo, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It seems like the most guaranteed way for a black actress to win an award is if she is fat and sassy aka Hattie, Hudson, Monique and now Octavia. So what has changed since 1939 when Hattie won? by giving awards to these stereotypical films, we are encouraging the narrative of what type of roles for black women should be rewarded by the acting community.
And exactly what type of leverage does the success of a movie like The Help secure for black actresses? the movie was written and produced by white, distributed by white people and watched by an overwhelming majority of the white population. So how does that positively affect the type of roles Octavia will receive in the future? the success of The Help only encourages production companies to churn out more trite, fluffly and sentimental movies that gloss over the true horrors of America’s race relations. What offers did Monique get after winning? Viola Davis has been playing the long suffering maid from time immemorial and with the success of The Help, she will continue to do so. How progressive right?
I guess you can sum up the best actor race with a simple screenshot from AwardsDaily – http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/whowins.jpg/
You don’t know that, Deena. You can’t know that. And besides, I don’t give a rat’s ass, to tell you the truth. Davis gave the best performance and deserves to win, whether that performance sits comfortably with YOU or not.
another deleted comment? wow. someone’s really got his panties in a bunch.
IBSF
At this rate, Kim Kardashian would win an Oscar for her scripted reality show before Meryl wins her third Oscar.
knee play, Ryan deleted about 40 last night while I slept blissfully unaware but the monster is fully awake and pissed off.
hello this is my first time commenting , have been reading this blog for a couple months now
i just wanna say if jean dujardin wins the oscar i will be over the moon happy, i’m french like him and we’ve watch him from his beginnings, he’s very famous and beloved here in france! he’s got an infectious outgoing personality and he’s hot and very charming with a great sense of humour!
as for THE HELP i watched it and read the book, laughed a lot at both but at no moment did i think anything about it was oscar-worthy the film or actresses(and i’m black) i’m not particularly fond of actors getting awarded for playing these kind of roles, that’s why i was glad when halle berry won , it had nothing to do with fact her character was black but the complexity of the role she had in the film IMO
all that said should she win or octavia or both would i be sad no, i’d be happy for them , a win given by your peers means more than anonymous opinions after all.
my fav personally would be meryl streep , i find her fascinating as an actress, rarely does an actor or actress make you forget who they are in favour of their character and shouldnt that be what being best is all about?
ha i smile everytime i think about the artist winning the major awards this season, a genuine smile! its crazy
i don’t understand the need to delete at all. i mean, really. and for the record, only about 2-3 of those 40 were mine. you said yourself, sasha, that these awards are “silly and meaningless”. so why get so bent out of shape?
Martin Scorsese (Drink up!)
Viola Davis is an acclaimed professional and by far the best thing about this awards season…. good essay. thanks
Obviously her performance attracts scrutiny that does not bear down on the other performances and roles. For example, is no one bothered by the irony free mugging for the wealthy in The Artist, or the gratuitous glamorization of the wealthy in The Descendants and Midnight in Paris…. all in the midst of a national occupy movement that asks for consideration to the 99%?
We’e seen writing about the trashing of Thatcher and the gratuitous use of 9/11 in ELIC, but nothing comparable to the rage over The Help.
The Help attracts much more scrutiny than the other contenders because race is far more emotionally charged than money, or class, or, well, anything.
Before taking apart Dais’s performance further, apply the same standard of scrutiny to the other films and roles – any stereotypes at work there?
The awards don’t get me out of shape, knee play, it is the rage and hideousness made by — and I can’t believe I’m actually saying this — Meryl Streep fans. The most wonderful, kind actress of all time has an army of racist pitt bulls defending her – she herself would be horrified. Moreover, much of the talent in the race reads this site and the comments and I myself am embarrassed by the ignorance displayed in them. So yes, delete delete delete. It is your privilege to comment here, not your right.
Sasha- agree with a lot of your comments except for the “there’s no way both will win” comment. I wonder if you’re trying to manage your own expectations in case you’re disappointed, which is what I did a lot of last year to soften the TSN blow
.
Anyway, something that should be said is that some white actors DO face discrimination, specifically, older women actresses. I think one thing that pro-Meryl people focus on is that it is very hard for older women in Hollywood to get got roles and recognition. There are of course exceptions like Mirren when there’s a blow you away performance, but we have seen too many younger actresses in lesser roles take it over better performances (I’m thinking Reese and Halle right now).
That said, that is of course a problem that affects Viola, who I think is in her 50s? But I do think it does need to be said that there is disturbing sexism in Hollywood- the number of women who have won major awards is sickeningly low. You yourself covered this quite well during the Hurt Locker.
Now, of course, discrimination faced by racial minorities is far greater than those by gender minorities, but it does stun me how entrenched it still is in 2012.
Saying Viola is only winning cause she’s black is as silly as saying someone not voting for her is racist. Both comments convey more about the speaker than about the substance of the conversation.
Also, I’m quite sure not all Meryl fan are racists. I know the word “all” wasn’t used, but the clarification would be appreciated in the context of calling people pit bulls (at least if we care to tone things down, which maybe we don’t!)
Jorge, I don’t think they’re all racists either, certainly not. Many have accused me of being racist simply for talking about race. But the fact is, where black actors go the discussion of race follows. Just like Obama. Maybe someday that won’t be the case but it is STILL the case in 2012.
so now i’m being accused of being racist? come on. i’m working towards a master’s degree in women’s studies and currently t.a. for a class in minorities in media here in toronto. i’m not racist in the slightest. i’m sharing my thoughts which, un-pc as they might appear to some, are completely valid.
and yes, i do love meryl. however i’m not even rooting for her this year. the last time i wanted her to actually win was for “doubt”. i think that despite her misguided attempts at presenting herself as sexualized as of late that williams should take it. followed by mara. followed by streep. followed by davis. followed by close.
Ryan deleted about 40 last night while I slept blissfully unaware
Sasha is looking at the number logged in the “trash” — but very few of those are deleted for abusive content.
dozens of maintenance comments — whenever I see people who have spotted typos they make in a comment, and then wish they could correct it. I fix their typos, and then I delete their follow-up correction because it’s clutter.
10 or 20 readers will testify that I do this all the time.
because I’m a goddamn saint.
I also deleted 5 comments from a reader who was boasting about downloading movies — and then he decided he didn’t want that online. So I’m trying to help him cover his ass after he had second thoughts.
Because I’m your silent guardian, your watchful protector.
I never said you were a racist, knee play.
Yes, Sasha, that is an undeniable fact, just like with Obama. I was so sad after I first watched The Help to hear some of the racial backlash. I write a movie review column for my firms internal newsletter and had my editor ask me to delete a line about how the Help provided “much needed jobs for minorities in Hollywood.” It could offend people, she said.
I was dumbfounded.
Unfortunately, I am not quite as optimistic as you that Viola and Octavia’s win will do much to change that, after all, the roles still need to be written. Maybe a The Help BP win but I doubt it.
After I saw Doubt I fell in love with Viola and will be very happy when she wins. And I will continue to root strongly for another Streep win ASAP. To me it’s inexplicable that she has lost more awards than anyone else ever.
“Davis gave the best performance and deserves to win.”
In your humble, subjective opinion. By no means consensual (how many critics awards did Viola get)? Again I think Viola is a terrific actress, not that spectacular in The Help, and I’d be happy to see her win an Academy Award. But “the best performance” rarely wins – it’s all about the narrative, the campaign, and the politics (see Bullock, Paltrow, Benigni). Does that make me a racist pitbull?
then perhaps i misunderstood. i do find it quite offensive that your moderator has decided to proclaim me as sad, sick and disgusting when all i have done was comment on the race and made zero personal attacks on his character.
whatever. moving on.
“What I see, though, is that the white actors never get punished but the black actors do. But guess who then has to pay the price? White actors? White writers? White filmmakers? Nope.”
But it was the film’s white writer/director who was (rightly) “snubbed,” not the black actresses who were (rightfully) nominated and have a good chance of winning. In fact I remember that when the African American Women Historian group first came out against the film they went out of their way to say that the actresses in the film shouldn’t be blamed for its problems.
By no means consensual (how many critics awards did Viola get)?
Except by the Broadcast Film Critics you mean? And then by the 100,000 some odd SAG voters? But yeah, other than that….the critics this year were disappointing to me across the board but that’s maybe because they were rightly united last year and this year kind of blew up in many different directions. Of course the critics weren’t going to reward The Help. Whitey Guilt wasn’t properly assuaged.
I do know that Sasha and I know because it happened after Hattie won, after Whoopi won, after Halle won, after Hudson won and after Monique won. The success of stereotypical movies like The Help does not change the status quo. If anything, it dictates what kind of roles are available for women of colour. I have history and statistics on my side.
I’m glad you don’t give a rat’s ass but I do. I would love to see a black actress play the lead in a movie like Melancholia. I would love to see more daring directors like Paul McGuigan cast an actress like Lucy Liu as the girlfriend or the lead female and not the “Asian” girlfriend or the token “Asian” sexpot (Yes! Lucky number slevin was a flawed movie but the casting of Lucy Liu was a commendable decision).
Let’s make a bet Sasha, right here and right now. Let’s make a bet about Octavia’s post-Oscar career. If you will oblige, let’s do it.
“your moderator has decided to proclaim me as sad, sick and disgusting”
No. I said your attitude “makes me sad, makes me sick”
Don’t twist my words. My words are as harsh I as intend for them to be — but don’t make it worse than it is.
I stand by my feelings that I find your attitude disgusting. Look, if you’re going to keep pressuring me for an explanation about why I’m bothered by what you wrote, then I have a right to tell you.
If you don’t want to know how I feel, stop cross-examining me.
Exactly. One can’t blame actors and actresses for performing in those movies, because their choice is limited, but one can blame producers or studio’s for making them, for forcing great actors and actresses in a corner where they can only play a prefabricated stereotype.
Let’s make a bet Sasha, right here and right now. Let’s make a bet about Octavia’s post-Oscar career. If you will oblige, let’s do it.
I would never make such a bet. I’m not cynical as you apparently are. All I am here to do is to block long held prejudices that prevent great actresses like Viola Davis and Octavia Spencer from getting the attention they deserve; that Whitey was offended by THe Help and that is what prevented its awards run pissed the fuck out of me. To me, as I’ve said ad nauseum, film awards mean nothing except where they can shift the balance of power in Hollywood. No one person can change anything. You just move the needle, shift perception every so slightly, each time. That’s all you can do. If I really genuinely thought Meryl Streep gave the best performance of the year or the best performance of HER career (it’s not even in the top five, maybe not even in the top ten) I would be championing her. What bothered me this year was the default position many were taking that it would be either Streep or Williams – when in fact, if a veteran WHITE actress led a movie passed $100 mil, someone who was way overdue for any Oscar attention, she would win. Oh yeah, she did already and her name was Sandra Bullock. My own heart was moved MORE, I learned more and was impressed WAY MORE by Viola Davis than any of the other four. Now if Tilda were in the race that would be a harder call to make.
Bullock won BFCA and SAG, too. Was she the best performance of 2009?
“Of course the critics weren’t going to reward The Help. Whitey Guilt wasn’t properly assuaged.”
Being in a mediocre movie didn’t hurt Streep. So are the Critics racist white supremacists?
Dramarama!
Unfortunately this thread is going to be 100 times more exciting than the Oscars will be this year.
Believe it or not, this thread makes me think that things ARE changing in Hwood…And Sasha and Ryan are agents of this change. This role has fallen to them, and they are doing it because well, SOMEbody has to say the things and take the positions that they do. Or NOTHING will ever change. This year for instance, I think AW was instrumental in getting Melissa McCarthy a Best Supporting Actress nomination. Sasha was the first to do it or say so, and wham! Melissa’s in!
Last year, she did the same thing for Jennifer Lawrence and “Winter’s Bone” I don’t think either of those nominations would’ve happened if it wasn’t for her.
Which is wonderful!
Sasha — Like others I am confused why you think there is so little chance of Davis AND Spencer winning Oscars. I thought that you have consistently predicted them both to win — that is certainly your most recent prediction on Gurus of Gold. Now, they both win at the SAGs (usually a great predictor of Oscar chances) and you say it is highly unlikely they will both win at the Oscars. I don’t get it.
I’m curious as to why you think this now, given your past position and the SAG results.
Dujardin’s win was a delightful surprise. None of my top male performances ended up nominated, so at leat this adds some interest for me.
Stephen Holt
But none of the women you mentioned are coloured actresses so what change are you talking about? Don’t get me started on Melissa McCarthy. If Monique had her role in Bridesmaids, there would have been absolutely ZERO TALK of an Oscar nomination. Absolutely zero. I live to see the day when an Asian or Latino actress plays the lead in a movie like Winter’s Bone. I lived in the Mid West and there are millions of “minorities” who were born and raised in that area of the country. They act, sound and think like their white counterparts so why can’t they play the role of the backwoods redneckish teenager? why?
Don’t get ahead of yourself Mr. Holt. One step at a time.
@ Sasha,
I am a Meryl Streep fan, but I doubt I’ve ever been racist in my life. I know what it is to be in a minority. Anyway, no matter what, I don’t care much about Viola Davis’s performance. She made the best she could with the trash she was given. She’s a terrific actor as I pointed out in another post, but not deserving of an Oscar. Of course she plays the ‘I’m a woman of color and it’s important for a woman of color’ card. But last night (to me it’s earlier today) I wrote about my frustration with the race and why Meryl never finishes first. She’s the runner-up again and again, sometimes for great work. People keep telling ‘next time, next year’ again and again. They keep telling ‘best picture nominee’, but she lost for Adaptation (a great performance as opposed to Zeta-Jones’s cheap theatrics) and she wasn’t even nominated for The Hours. She lost for The Bridges of Madison County, she won for plenty of great work! And there’s always somebody else. There will always be the big unrewarded star, the performance that’s too touching to ignore or the young actress going for the deglam thing. And Meryl might never win. She’s 63 soon. How many great leading parts can she get in the future? Say it as it is – not many. And even if she does, the media won’t go this time and the stars won’t align. People say the ‘next year’ thing to feel better about themselves. But is it the case? No. There will be somebody else. And Meryl will not win or will win a supporting actress Oscar in her late 70′s? And when you all say ‘but how can the third be for (a certain movie), do you think a supporting actress win for a minor movie ten years from now will be a good way to honor a great career?! Will it represent it as such? So my frustration is obvious. It has nothing to do with Viola Davis other that I don’t see her as deserving. My frustration is with the blacklash that always happens to Meryl — too dramatic, not dramatic enough, not lead enough, only Meryl there etc etc.
@ Plum and Sasha
Viola Davis won more critics awards than any other leading actress this year except Michelle Williams.
And you say it again – why DOES Meryl have to give the best performance of HER CAREER to win?!?!
Sasha and Ryan are awesome. We can all agree on that.
“She is winning because she is brilliant, not because she is black.
I am sick and tired of this “racial prejudice”. Get over it already.”
“They should be ashamed of themselves, anyone who says that.”
Sasha, agreed, they should be ashamed of themselves. But I am curious where the indignation was when Brokeback was beaten by Crash CLEARLY because Brokeback was a gay themed film. Over and over thru the years since that travesty many of us have pointed out the indisputable evidence of the Academy’s homophobia in that regard (from Academy members: “I won’t even watch it because John Wayne would roll over in his grave”), yet because its the Academy and Oscars they get a pass???
Brokeback was considered to be the best film of 2005 at the time, and 6 years later still is, by far, as evidenced by its extremely strong showing at best of the decade lists (top 4, with Eternal Sunshine, There Will Be Blood, Mulholland Drive). People said the gay film can’t win because its gay. Where was the outrage, but from a few of us. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad to see outrage here over the racism here, but we shouldn’t be tolerating prejudice in any way shape or form, and that’s why I no longer watch the Oscars. Everyone else picked Brokeback for Best Picture but them (SAG, as we saw last night, and many times before, is an ensemble prize for acting, not Best Picture!). I happily watch the inane Globes and follow the NY & LA film crix, but am happy to stop on Oscar night.
Quickly: To DeenaJones – love your posts, agree with everything you say.
For the record: love Davis, she was so amazing in Fences, but I don’t think I would have nominated her for The Help – though its close – with Williams, Streep, Dunst, Swinton, and the “Poetry” actress whose name slips my mind all in contention. If supporting, she’d be my runner up though, after that amazing actress in A Separation, far and away the year’s best film.
“If I really genuinely thought Meryl Streep gave the best performance of the year or the best performance of HER career (it’s not even in the top five, maybe not even in the top ten) I would be championing her.” – Sasha
But why should Meryl top her best performances before she wins an Oscar? why are we even having a discussion about her best career performances? Viola is definitely going to win the Oscar. Did she top her performance as Ms. Miller in Doubt? in fact, Aibileen is a downgrade from Ms. Miller. Does Ms. Miller top her performance in Antowne Fisher as the long-suffering drug-addicted mother? So Viola should win for playing the same long-suffering woman but Meryl has to top Sophie’s Choice? Which Oscar-winning actress in the last 30 years has topped Sophie’s Choice? in fact, which actress over 50 in the last 50 years has topped Sophie’s Choice?
As you said, it is all a matter of opinion. I personally think Meryl’s work in The Iron Lady is one of her finest and most mature performances. Her interpretation of dementia-stricken Thatcher was truly haunting and anyone who has ever had a close encounter with the disease can vouch for me. But the politics is in Davis’ favour and she will win. She’ll be back next year as another civil rights-era maid or Reese Witherspoon’s best friend in a rom com. If this is the progress we want, this is what we will get *Shrugs*
I cannot wait for the Oscars…last night SAG awards have just got me so so ready to watch. I have already filled out my predictions on this nifty little guide http://bit.ly/x4eRDb. Wonder who will win!? How much do the winners of the SAG awards correlate with the Oscars?!?!
I think that Dujardin’s win last night, will change the Best Actor race. Clooney is losing steam, as is the Descendants chance of winning Best Picture or Screenplay. On the topic of the Streep/Davis rivalry, I am inclined to go for Streep, because I think that this is the role that will get her Oscar #3, but I will be satisfied if if either one wins.
But why should Meryl top her best performances before she wins an Oscar?
Because if she isn’t topping herself she at least has to top the other four. In other words, usually when someone wins a career Oscar AGAIN it’s either because they are starring in a Best Picture nominee or potential winner or else they’ve done career-best work. She isn’t better than the other four and it isn’t career-best work and Iron Lady isn’t a Best Pic nominee – so why is she supposed to win again?
Thanks, Bennett
(you just earned immunity for the rest of the season.)
Is someone actually coming to this site and talking to me about Brokeback? Anyone who around here then care to comment on where I stood that year? Cause I don’t gots the energy nor the time to do it.
I stand corrected, Paddy M.
Viola (8 Critics Awards):
* African American Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Black Film Critics Circle Award for Best Actress
* Alliance of Women Film Journalists Award for Best Actress
* Broadcast Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Iowa Film Critics Award for Best Actress
* Indiana Film Critics Association Award for Best Supporting Actress
* North Texas Film Critics Award for Best Actress
* Women Film Critics Circle Award for Best Actress
Meryl (6 Awards)
* AACTA International Award for Best Actress
* Denver Film Critics Society Award for Best Actress
* New York Film Critics Circle Award for Best Actress
* New York Film Critics Online Award for Best Actress
* London Film Critics Circle Award for Actress of the Year
* Southeastern Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
Michelle (10 Awards)
* Boston Society of Film Critics Award for Best Actress
* Chicago Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Dallas-Fort Worth Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Detroit Film Critics Society Award for Best Actress
* Florida Film Critics Circle Award for Best Actress
* Las Vegas Film Critics Society Award for Best Actress
* Oklahoma Film Critics Circle Award for Best Actress
* Toronto Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Utah Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
* Washington D.C. Area Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress
Zooey –
Well said. Streep may well never win again. It will be interesting to see what she does with August: Osage County, a great play, with a brilliant fierce lead performance by Deanna Dunnagan whom I would have loved to see get the movie but I always knew it would go to Streep. Anyhow, everyone always thought Bette Davis would win her 3rd, but like with Meryl, there was always something standing in the way. I agree with the majority that Iron Lady was mediocre film (at best; actually, bad!), but Streep was amazing. Among the nominees, personally I’d vote for Michelle Williams if I thought she stood a chance. At this point I think its slim, so I’d play political like so many Academy members do and vote for Streep. I think regardless of what happens at BAFTA, the Best Actress race will be a toin coss until they announce the winner.
As for BAFTA, I am tired of reading postings saying that all they try to do is predict the Oscars. That simply isn’t true, just look at their Best Picture winners, they do NOT correlate the way so many of you claim they do. For example, few in the States thought that (The Pianist or The Queen or Atonement was going to win the Best Picture Oscar, yet they all won the BAFTA. BAFTA has far more integrity and a far better track record in recent years if you ask me than the Academy, unlike the Oscars I find their awards interesting and even informative (e.g., Fellowship won, Brokeback won, The Pianist already mentioned, etc.). They march to their own drummer, unlike the Broadcast Film Critics.
“if a veteran WHITE actress led a movie passed $100 mil, someone who was way overdue for any Oscar attention, she would win. Oh yeah, she did already and her name was Sandra Bullock.”
Sasha, I am having a hard time keeping up with your inconsistencies. I don’t remember this outrage when Sandra Bullock won for The Blind Side. I don’t remember it. Why are you now using Sandra Bullock as a bulletproof shield to justify Davis’ win? If your thoughts have been constant, you should have been aggressively championing for Gabby Sidibe right? I’m confused.
Sasha:
Yes, I remember you agreed that Brokeback lost on account of homophobia. My question is, then why do you still care what the Academy has to say? I ask the question especially since Crash is such a bad film (though admittedly a popular rental at netflix, in no small part thanks to that Oscar).
@ Sasha,
Well, there were times when she was better than the other four. To me she’s better than the other four this time around as well. You don’t agree. But let’s look back. Of course it’s a question of taste, but the year she lost for Adaptation or The Bridges of Madison County or Silkwood or Ironweed or The French Lieutenant’s Woman or A Cry in the Dark. All these performances were in beloved films. She LOST. So for her it has to be something else, doesn’t it? She has to be groundbreaking to win. That’s what saddens me – the double standard. So it will happen again and again.. and again!
Great piece Sasha. It so unfortunate that Viola an Octavia can’t just enjoy their moment. Instead they have to deal ignorant people throwing out comments that only set our society back.
I really don’t think a lot of the people who have commented on Viola’s chances of winning understand how HUGE this would be. 1 black actress in 84 years is an incredibly shocking/disturbing fact. Viola winning would be a moment of epic proportions, and bring many to tears.
My fingers are crossed for Viola and Octavia.
***Agreed. So let’s just close the door on those movies because the last you want is for black actors to make a film that makes enough money to give them more power in Hollywood. Let’s keep down by raising the standards so high they can never be attained, and will never satisfy anyone. Here’s a thought: get out of their way.****
Hmmmm do we need to discuss Will Smith? Denzel Washington? Morgan Freeman? Danny Glover? Martin Lawrence? Chris Rock? I’m being kind by leaving Tyler Perry off that list. Notice all males.
The problem isn’t that The Help shouldn’t have been made because I actually believe it was a good movie. Not a great movie. I think Spencer should win Supporting Actress. I don’t agree with Davis winning Best Actress. I happened to also think the ensemble award last night at SAG was right on the money.
Is the whole issue about Viola winning really about race? Or have we made it about race? Isn’t the real issue about her performance in The Help more about the roles that are available to women in film. And no one can second guess what Taylor had in mind or what it was he wanted from Davis’ performance. It could be that he got what he wanted. It could be that he designed Davis’ character to be that quiet stoic burdened woman and Davis found what he wanted and committed it to celluloid. I don’t know what he wanted and I’m not going too assume I do besides most of the time the director will tell you he got just what he wanted when it was even if it wasn’t what he originally intended. Is it an Oscar worthy performance? Not in the Best Actress category. Because if her performance is worthy of a Best Actress nomination then why wasn’t Octavia Spencers? Is it because Viola is more attractive than Octavia? Is it because Hollywood has decided that Octavia is more of a character actor? Because both women spent bascically the same amount of time on screen. Yes I know Viola is the narrator. That doesn’t really matter because no one saw her narrating and if they didn’t know it was her [probably a lot didn't] they wouldn’t know who was telling the story. If anyone should feel pissed off in my opinion it should be Octavia and she’s not wagging her finger around. Well not that I’ve seen anyway, so let me qualify that.
As for Viola speaking about her personal struggle to rise up through the ranks to reach this point in her career. I’m for that completely. I’m not for someone standing there and pointing their finger and waggling it at everyone and telling them how bad they are and they should go sit in a corner until they fix it. Yes I know she didn’t do that literally but that’s how it comes across figuratively.
To most people who watch these programs they will look at Viola in her incredible gowns and shake their head going “I’m losing my house and she’s at least living her dream so what is she complaining about..”. John Doe a coalworker in West Virginia isn’t gonna get it. I know this is extraordinary and that the road is full of crap for women in film. Notice I said for “women” in film. Because it’s not just about black women in film it’s about women in film all the way around. Few women get the chance to work like Meryl or Julianne or Sandra.
Being a gay male who was in High School in the mid sixties I know about discrimination so I get it and maybe I’m uncomortable remembering how it felt and perhaps that’s why I object to illustrating it. I don’t know. Hell I had to settle for a civil union in NJ and even then still don’t the same rights Viola Davis has. Go figure.
Great piece Sasha. It so unfortunate that Viola an Octavia can’t just enjoy their moment. Instead they have to deal ignorant people throwing out comments that only set our society back.
Right? What is it with people?
“Though it’s worth saying that George Clooney gives the performance of his career so far in The Descendants”
Nope. Clooney can live to be 200, and yet his greatest performance will always be as Ulysses Everett McGill…followed closely by Mr. Fox.
“Then perhaps i misunderstood. i do find it quite offensive that your moderator has decided to proclaim me as sad, sick and disgusting when all i have done was comment on the race and made zero personal attacks on his character”
Your comment was offensive to begin with. You didn’t just comment on the race, you commented on why Davis would in because she is black. Give me a break. I bet you are some kind of right wing wacko. Now, don’t give me that crap about “Oh my best friend is black”, “Oh I am getting a degree in Women’s study”.
Your attitude is racist, period. Yeah, move on, yeah, what the fuckever.
Well I’m sorry that saddens you, Zooey but Streep didn’t really LOSE. She holds the records for the most nominations – she has won twice – she is honored and adored all over the world, she has four beautiful kids a happy marriage, all the success that life affords, a long fruitful lovely career that has spanned decades. Please tell me again how she has lost or is in any way a loser here?
you should have been aggressively championing for Gabby Sidibe right? I’m confused.
Why because you actually think I only champion black people? Why am I wasting my precious time arguing with you again?
“Viola Davis isn’t better than the other four. She is playing the same long-suffering black woman she has been playing for decades. So why is she supposed to win again??”
She isn’t better than the other four?? To who? To you? She is playing the same long suffering black woman, sure, she has, so what? She has done those roles effectively, so if she gets recognized, she deserves it. It has nothing to do with how many times she has played a “suffering black woman”.
Enough is enough. Your racist attitude is very obvious.
No! you claim to champion the best performance of the year right? Sidibe was better than Bullock in The Blind Side but she didn’t win and I don’t recall you having any issues with Bullock winning over Sidibe. Your reaction then is definitely not consistent with your reaction now.
“hat bothered me this year was the default position many were taking that it would be either Streep or Williams – when in fact, if a veteran WHITE actress led a movie passed $100 mil, someone who was way overdue for any Oscar attention, she would win. Oh yeah, she did already and her name was Sandra Bullock. ”
Yes, it did happen, and was considered one of the most unfair wins of all time.
There’s no need to play the the film made money argument, and specially not the race card, for two reasons:
a) (regarding the money one specifically): The Help wasn’t a huge hit in the US because of Viola Davis, or at least her alone (unlike Sandra Bullock). It was an ensemble piece and she wasn’t the most famous name of the cast.
b) More importantly, if she gave the best performance of the year, or at least of the nominees, she doesn’t need them. If she didn’t, then she doesn’t deserve the Oscar and shouldn’t play them; either way, it just sounds cheap and desperate.
“Sidibe was better than Bullock in The Blind Side ”
Your opinion.
Your attempt to dig out a non existing hypocrisy is very lame.
@ Sasha,
when you people are reminded of what Meryl lost for (all these great performances!), you always react like that. She has the most nominations. She has them, so what? She deserved them. But she deserved and deserves to win as well. The most nominations don’t change that! And I say that again: if Meryl were in France, she would have 5-6-7 CESARS the very least. But you Americans really don’t know how to embrace and reward somebody who’s your national treasure.
i never once said she’d win because she is black. and i never implied that either. perhaps you misunderstood or i didn’t explain myself properly.
and no, my politics are extremely left. i’m a hardcore feminist and volunteer a lot of my time to support gay teenagers. i’m not sure a gay torontoian can actually be a right-winger…
if you think you know my character at all because of a few comments on a discussion board, you’re sadly mistaken and should process opinions before jumping to conclusions. calling someone racist and dropping F-bombs as some sort of counter-arguments is incredibly lazy.
“My own heart was moved MORE, I learned more and was impressed WAY MORE by Viola Davis than any of the other four.”
Just curious, did you have a person of color maid when you were growing up? Do you have one now for your daughter?
What about me? How do I get immunity for the rest of the season?
Bullock was just another Roberts/Witherspoon*. Wholesome sweet harmless popular girl gets an award. Aw, shucks, isn’t it cute?
* although I felt Roberts and Witherspoon were a bit more deserving, but still…
@ RobertlowercaseA
so everyone is racist but you, it seems. give me a break.
Just curious, did you have a person of color maid when you were growing up? Do you have one now for your daughter?
Huh? Uh….I was a welfare kid with a single mother. I am now a single parent. We didn’t have “person of color” maids or any other kind of maids. What a weird question. Did you have an uptight British prig for a Prime Minister?
But you Americans really don’t know how to embrace and reward somebody who’s your national treasure.
Um yeah, I just got done saying how she is currently the most lauded and rewarded actress of our time. So other actresses win the Oscar, so what? Do you think because Tom Hooper won the Oscar last year that it means anything beyond what movie Tom Hooper is going to make next? Nope. The other directors in that category last year have been and will continue to be more lauded than Tom Hooper ever will be. Same goes for your Meryl. Whether she wins Oscars or not. It matters if Davis wins one.
Sidibe was better than Bullock in The Blind Side but she didn’t win and I don’t recall you having any issues with Bullock winning over Sidibe.
I didn’t think she was better. I thought Streep was better. But I’m going to get my underwear in a knot arguing about a year that didn’t matter.
Sorry but I remember Sasha championing Gabby Sidibe. She was very supportive of Gabby’s performance. A lot of that was overshadowed by Monque’s gesturing which got a lot of attention after awhile but she certainly did champion Gabby.
“We didn’t have “person of color” maids or any other kind of maids. What a weird question. Did you have an uptight British prig for a Prime Minister?”
that actually made me laugh out loud. well done.
Sasha,
Why do you think it is “highly unlikely” that both Spencer and Davis will win at the Oscars?
Thanks.
For the record, and I was assistant editor at the time, Sasha was, and has continued to be, very outspoken about homophobia and AMPASS’ choice of Crash over Brokeback Mountain.
yes sasha, i think everyone is dying to know why you think it’s “highly unlikey” that both spencer and davis will win at the oscars…..
I’m sorry, but Jean Dujardin is just Roberto Benigni V.2.
Benigni won Best Actor in a year where he beat — are you sitting down — Edward Norton (American History X), Nick Nolte (Affliction), Ian McKellan (Gods and Monsters) and Tom Hanks (Saving Private Ryan).
Dujardin will have to step over two equally career-defining performances from two of Hollywood’s biggest stars, Clooney and Pitt.
Zooey — I am not American, but the statement that Americans don’t know how to embrace Streep as their national treasure is ridiculous. You seem to think that the SOLE fact that Streep has won only two Oscars demonstrates that Americans do not love and appreciate her.
– Streep has WON TWO OSCARS, for crying out loud. Very few actresses have done that.
– Streep has been nominated for 17 Oscars!!!! Way more than her closest competitor.
– Streep has won dozens and dozens of other acting awards from various critics groups and guilds — surely she has won more acting awards than any other film actress.
– Streep’s name is now synonymous with the term “greatest actress of her generation”, to the point that her status as such as incontrovertible.
– Streep is one of only seven actresses who have been awarded the American Film Institute Lifetime Achievement Award. And that is out of 39 of those awards.
– Streep has received doctorates from Princeton and Harvard
– Streep was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Letters in 2010
– Streep’s star was put on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 1998
– Streep received the Kennedy Center Honor in 2011, in a celebration that was attended by President Obama.
And these are just her American awards and recognitions, and just for film, not theatre.
To suggest, against the above statistics, that somehow poor Meryl Streep has been neglected, unloved and not given her due by Americans is astoundingly inaccurate.
And your comparison to the situation “if Meryl were in France” again shows how you skew your message. This is classic misunderstanding of statistics. Aside from the fact that it is entirely speculative to suggest she “would have wom 5-6-7 Cesar’s” (you state this as if it is a fact, when it is only your wild guess), you fail to take into account that the USA is 5 times the population of France and is the film acting capital of the world. So of course in a much smaller country like France, a great actress is likely to receive many more awards than in a huge country that is the film capital of the world. I live in Canada, population 30 million, and we have lots of actors who have won our national film acting awards many times — BECAUSE THERE ARE FEWER ACTORS HERE!
You are just making up nonsense to support your personal view that Streep should win the Oscar this year. If that is your view, that is fine — but don’t misrepresent the facts and ignore proper statistical analysis to make your bogus point about the supposed non-recognition Streep has received in America.
@ Sasha, maybe it does matter if Viola wins an Oscar. But it shouldn’t be about politics. And yes, Meryl is beloved. So what? She should simply never win simply because she’s beloved? Is that an argument?! She has the love, the respect. Why vote for her?! And you state you DID prefer Meryl Streep in 2009, but I clearly remember that back in 2009 it was all about Bullock here – articles and articles and articles about Bullock. Not the passionate support Viola Davis gets. And why? Why should Viola Davis win for a movie that goes for stereotypes? Why should Viola Davis win for a movie that to me is absolutely racist and portrays the need of these women to have their story heard and the need to have a white woman help them overcome all trouble and make the world a better place?! I have a problem with that, I have to admit. Because it would have been such a more interesting story about people trying to be heard on their own. And it brings us to a period when that was happening in America. So the whole plot here is a bit fake. And I doubt Viola’s Oscar will change things the same way Berry’s Oscar didn’t. It could change her career and it would be nice and something I’m hoping for. But how many big leading parts has Meryl?! How many?! I know I repeat that, but people need that to be repeated again and again and again. Because the ‘next year’, ‘next time’ makes no sense.
But whatever: everybody’s always very passionate about Meryl Streep. But never when the Oscars approach. That’s actually what always happens. She’ll have next time. Even with great performances. And yes, she deserves to have a bit more than one best actress Oscar and one in supporting actress. She does.
Sasha hittin’ nails on heads. Streep’s performances have made her name synonymous with American film acting. Nobody but Streep would have been able to lift an Oscar nomination out of The Iron Lady – note the lack of excitement around the film in general. Ain’t that enough of a testament to her talent? She’s an institution, and the Oscars love institutions, and most of us (oddly!) love the Oscars. That doesn’t mean we should automatically cheer the perpetual dominance of tradition/stagnation/echoes.
This year, yeah, “it matters if Davis wins one,” and I can’t help but think back to one of last night’s weirdest comments: the assertion that Davis has not yet “paid her dues” to Hollywood.
@ Scott, when I speak of Streep not getting the treatment she deserves, I speak in terms of Oscar recognition. And she doesn’t get that. She gets nominated again and again, but that’s all. Two Oscars – not a few. Hilary Swank and Sally Field have each two Oscars as do many other actresses. It’s actually quite common. And if Oscar represents the big award, the one that really matters and Meryl always has to wait for it, then isn’t she a bit like loved in words, but Oscar never comes her way? At least not anymore no matter what.
“career-defining performances from two of Hollywood’s biggest stars, Clooney and Pitt”
I agree they are Hollywood’s biggest stars, but “career-defining performances”? Seriously? Their careers were defined a long time ago and I don’t believe they are going to plummit if they don’t win the Oscar this year. Pitt could use an Oscar simply because he still doesn’t have one, but it doesn’t mean he needs one, not for this part anyway. Clooney is Clooney and he will remain Clooney, Oscar or no Oscar.
“Clooney is Clooney and he will remain Clooney, Oscar or no Oscar.”
Clooney’s pact with a local, treacherous wizard actually requires two more Oscars before 2030.. but nice try….
oh, and did I mention that the more I read this site, the more I’m willing to stab a fork in my eye just to feel better. This constant bitchslapping over bullshit is really tireing. Give it a fucking rest.
“I’m willing to stab a fork in my eye just to feel better”
I know a wizard who can fix that up for you.. Only costs one Golden Globe or two People’s Choice Awards.
“Clooney’s pact with a local, treacherous wizard actually requires two more Oscars before 2030.. but nice try”
Yeah, he’ll win a second one sooner or later, but not this year. I’m even willing to bet some money that the next Oscar he wins is for directing.
Kolés – Clooney for director in the future wouldn’t shock me. Has he given any indication of his next directorial project?
Dujardin won last night because the SAG wouldn’t give ensemble to The Artist and they needed to give it something. It’s also because (and this might be the more true reason)Dujardin is the main reason why the movie even works in the first place. It’s a brilliant piece of physical acting. I don’t think he will win the oscar though, but it would not surprise me.
Streep’s problem this year is the same as it was in 2009 and 2006: people just don’t think her movie is very good. She needs to be in a well rounded film if she wants another Oscar. But the thing is she probably doesn’t care and why should she? She’s the best actress alive right now and she’s using her power to do roles that interest her no matter what recognition or lack of she receives.
“Has he given any indication of his next directorial project?”
No he hasn’t, but does it matter. The only thing he has to do is to direct a movie he doesn’t stat in. That should seal the deal.
Though most people with a pulse enjoy Gabourey Sidibe’s work, there is no comparison to her Oscar nomination and Viola Davis’. Sidibe had never made a film before. From all accounts, she had never acted before. She auditioned for the role on a whim.
Viola Davis is damn near fifty years old, has a slew of film/television/stage credits, a previous Oscar nomination, two Tony Awards, two Drama Desk Awards and an MFA from Juilliard. Oy. What does this woman have to do to prove herself?
I’m not a huge Viola Davis fan myself. And I loathed The Help but millions of people disagree with me. And facts are facts.
I know this debate over Viola’s performance will never be resolved but heres how i felt. As an actor, I look at all of the performances and Viola’s sticks out to me. All of the other actresses (in the oscar category) give physically transformative performances. But as an actor I recognize what an achievement Viola’s performance was. In The Help she is surrounded by extremely colorful and flashy performances (Octavia’s, Chastain’s, Spacek’s) that blend comedy and drama. Yet Viola gives an emotionally transformative performances. She creates this soft spoken, inarticulate maid who articulated every thing through mannerisms and facial expressions. I see the real Viola who exudes intelligence, glamour and has such a command of the english language and the difference is monumental. She makes Abileen look so worn and empty through her eyes. The actors branch understand how hard it is to give such multilayered and honest performance without the normal fireworks. They recognize that what Viola did with her mannerisms, eyes and facial expressions is just as impressive as Meryl giving a monologue as Thatcher or Michelle Williams walking and talking like Marilyn. There are moments in her performance I still cannot forget. Her walking home and tripping and the pain she embodied. Her laugh when talking about the first child she took care of. Her nod when Skeeter asks her if she ever wanted to be anything but a maid. And then when Abileen gets her moment, Viola absolutely delivers. Her standing up to Hilly is powerhouse acting. The moment she explains her son’s death is also equally devastating. This is why she is winning all of these awards. This is why she got a standing ovation at SAG last night.
To all those who say she is only winning because she is black are so off. She took a character black actresses have been made to play so often in Hollywood and made her real. She gave her intelligence and humanity. I truly do not understand how you can argue about her performance when lesser performances have taken home this award so frequently. Viola gives a master class in subtle acting. And anyone who has seen her on stage in Fences, Intimate Apparel, King Hedley, or Seven Guitar knows she is an absolutely phenomenal actress (she has two tony awards). The Help proves that too.
This has been an incredible year for actresses so I understand the passion people have. I love Meryl more then anything and would love to see her win her third oscar but something tells me if not this year she has the Oscar locked for August: Osage County. Anyone who knows the play, knows it is an absolute masterpiece and the Meryl’s role is awards bait at its finest. It is a role actresses dream of. She plays a drug addicted mother with tumultous relationships with her family members. The role won Deanna Dunagan (the original broadway star) Tony and Olivier awards. The play is an actors showcase and is what Mike Nichols excels at directing (character driven dramas). This will be a major player in writing, Best Picture, Acting, and more. This is the Meryl role we have all been waiting for.
As far Michelle goes, I love her too and know she will have the opportunity for an Oscar in the future. Since Albert Nobbs has come about, Glenn has two baity roles lined up. Andrew Lloyd Webber is thinking about the Sunset Boulevard movie again with her and that is Glenn’s role. Also she is in Therese Raquin with Elizabeth Olsen and she plays a cruel aunt similar to her Dangerous Liasons role except this woman is more selfless and vulnerable. Rooney has a career ahead and two more chances as Lisbeth Salander!
“Add to the mix the brilliant Demian Bichir and Michael Fassbender and you have a very strong split vote”
Hate to interrupt the riot, but am I reading this correctly (I only had time to skim the comments, so apologies if I am), Sasha? The only think Fassbender split last night would have been the tab at the bar down the street with Gosling as neither was a player.
@ Rishi,
it’s not even sure if AUGUST: OSAGE COUNTY is going to happen. It’s not sure if Meryl will do it. It’s not sure if it won’t be on HBO. Too many questions. And we all know what happened the last time Meryl did a Broadway play turned into movie — she was blamed for not playing certain parts of the play the same way it was on Broadway. So it’s a no-win case for Meryl.
I understand that you prefer somebody else. I agree with many things you wrote, but please stop the whole ‘next time’ thing. It makes you feel better about yourself the same way the ‘i’m a big fan’ phrase does, but the ‘next time’ thing is useless. It’s kind of insulting. Next time, next time, next time.
“And your comparison to the situation “if Meryl were in France” again shows how you skew your message. This is classic misunderstanding of statistics. Aside from the fact that it is entirely speculative to suggest she “would have wom 5-6-7 Cesar’s” (you state this as if it is a fact, when it is only your wild guess), you fail to take into account that the USA is 5 times the population of France and is the film acting capital of the world. So of course in a much smaller country like France, a great actress is likely to receive many more awards than in a huge country that is the film capital of the world.”
All that, and remember that Isabelle Hupert and Juliette Binoche only have one César each, so it’s not like the French reward their best actresses all the time either.
the oscars are not the grammys where one person can win 20 awards.meryll has two for heavens sake.its not like she has never won before.The nominations are a true indications of her great talent.She doesnt have to win every year she is nominated people!!so what happens if she wins this year and then next year she gets nominated?do you expect her to win too and the next time she gets nominated?17 nominatios doesnt mean 17 wins !!!!!!!!!!!!what are about the great actresse that have never won before?
Sidibe was the best in 2009 based on in terms of acting. Just like Williams was the best last year and just like Blanchett was when Paltrow & Hudson won. However the best performances does not always win. heck sometimes they are not even nominated (RIP Fassbender in Shame & Chastain in Take Shelter). As we all know, politics, momentum, popularity, among other things come into play. To me although Davis didn’t give the best performance of the year, she is an acceptable winner despite my feeling that Swinton, Williams, Adepero Oduye, Olsen among others were better. The fact is that this was a great year for lead female performances. Instead of arguing about who gave the better performances, we should be fortunate at how many great performances we got this year. Also Mia Wasikowska was great as well!!
I know a wizard who can fix that up for you..
The Wicked Winslet of Oz
To be honest… while The Help was a generally inoffensive movie – it’s not even near worthy of an oscar for best picture. The character of Hilly? Come on… on her character ALONE being just the most run of the mill, over-the-top cunt… it just made it all way to easy and typical to root against her. I mean… man… fuck The Help, honestly. I give the movie a 7.5/10. That’s an above average and more than passing grade, but come on. The Help better than The Artist? No. Descendants? No? Not even the tragically unnominated Drive.
The Help winning would just make the Oscars Golden Globes 2.
Zooey — I still fail to see how the fact of someone receiving 17 Oscar nominations can really be considered a slap in the face. Why isn’t the fact that Streep has been nominated so many times evidence of how much the Academy LOVES her, rather than evidence of the Academy NOT VALUING her????
I can assure you, there is not an actor on the face of the earth who would not LOVE to have been nominated for an Oscar 17 times and to have won twice.
Hey Sasha….I think in all the years of following you and this site…which has been for many many…you and I have never (NEVER) agreed on Best Actress….I think we’ve finally found some common ground….I am a Streep fan for sure, but this year, I will not be satisfied unless Davis wins….she was exceptional.
The actors in the Academy love her. The rest – really?!
When you’re nominated TWICE, you’re already considered due nowadays.
Then having 17 nods and only 2 Oscars doesn’t seem enough, does it? Especially given how many actresses have achieved these 2 victories (and even two in lead) without many troubles?
So yes, in terms of wins – and it matters – Meryl is undervalued.
@Ryan
Oh.
Oh my.
Oh my goodness.
Didn’t think it was possible, but Jean Dujardin outcharms mr charming himself – the Cloonster. What a gorgeous fellow he (Jean) is! Looks like a definite battle now in both lead acting categories for Oscar.
I am an unapologetic Streep fan, and also take great umbridge with being lumped in with racists. Of course, i want her to win again. I don;t think there is a better screen actor alive, but the film buff, the film lover, the Oscar watcher within me, would like to see more ‘movement at the station’. Great actors deserve to be rewarded. Oscar doesn’t always
reward great actors – it rewards the person of the moment – the payback
, the sympathy, the ‘due recognition’. I have been following the race long enough to know that there are a myriad of qualities and ingredients
necessary for a win – and ‘the best’ is often not among them, and highly subjective even when it is considered the ‘best’.
As a 16 year old, witnessing an ailing Henry Fonda, one of the greats
from the golden years, win the Oscar, even then i knew it was far from the ‘best’ – Burt Lancaster, Paul Newman, Warren Beatty all gave stronger, more interesting performances – but there was no denying a beloved actor in his final years (weeks as it turned out) in a
sentimental weepie with another screen legend. I loved seeing Linda Hunt win, I loved seeing Marlee Matlin win, I loved seeing Halle Berry win.
I, like many others on this site, struggle to achieve any detachment from the Oscar race occasionally, to recognise that it is a game, a game of politics, sentiment, money and perception – not empiric evidence of greatness. That is in the eye of the beholder. Each beholder.
Academy award winner Viola Davis – has a good ring to it. I prefer to it
to Academy Award winners Reece Witherspoon, Sandra Bullock and Julia Roberts. But that’s just me. What i would love to see is actors of any kind be recognised for really great work. Thankfully there are plenty of award shows and award bodies that recognise the Swintons and Fassbenders, and all the countless other brilliant actors on the planet.
I think in the future, I might skip this stage of the awards process online, it just gets really messy, and really nasty and loses sight of what film appreciation is all about. Stepping off soap box, now.
doesn’t matter what SAG did THE HELP can’t win.
- It has no Best Editing nom and the last film to win Best Picture w/o a editing nom was Silence of the Lambs in 1991
- it has no Best Director nom and the last film to win picture w/o a directing nom was Driving Miss Daisy in 1989
- it didn’t get nominated at DGA last film to win BP w/o a nom there was Driving Miss Daisy
- lost the Critics Choice which has match the Oscar 9 of the last 12 years
Silence of the Lambs WAS nominated for editing
This is an Oscar winner’s speech:
http://youtu.be/0KrW8LN3uzM
Dylan:
The Silence of the Lambs had an editing nod.
Why can’t “The Help” become the first film since “Driving Miss Daisy” to win Best Picture w/o a Director Nomination and a DGA Nomination.
As far as Critics Choice, since they have lined up 9 out of 12 with Oscar, no reason that it can’t be 9 out of 13. And BFCA wasn’t around in 1989.
Point is, rules were made to be broken. And if it happened to Daisy, it could happen here.
A Best Actor win could make Jean Dujardin a new international star.
A Best Actress win for Viola Davis could make sure her days of bit cameos and best friend roles are over.
I would welcome both over Clooney and Streep, 2 actors that have everything already, winning. And the fact that I prefer Jean and Viola anyway doesn’t hurt:)
Sasha you have been pretty fantastic this season I must say!
I think the reason Streep fans are extra fierce this year is because some posters, not necessarily in here, are more that ready to crucify her upside down the moment, if that would happen, she wins her 3rd.
I don’t see what’s wrong with discussing the race factor when the winners themselves keep bringing it up in their own speeches.
Personally, I’m just glad that Jean Dujardin won because that was a defining performance in the defining movie of the year.
The problem I have with the whole “Clooney gives a career best performance” argument is we heard the exact same thing about Michael Clayton and Up in rhe Air. Add to the fact that a lot of people feel his Oscar win for Syriana was so they could give screenplay to Crash and Haggis would get an Oscar too that year and I just don’t see him winning again so soon despite the fact he’s never won lead. I live in such a small town that Descendants JUST opened here last weekend and The Artist hasn’t gotten here yet but Descendants is certainly starting to feel like this years Up in the Air in that it may get shut out. If SAG felt they HAD to give The Artist something, knew that Davis and The Help were going to win,and loved Descendants as much as we were led to believe then why not give Supporting to Bejo? Take away Spencer’s “Eat my S&*t” scene and there’s really not much to it. I think Best Actor will go to Dujardin with either Pitt or Bichir as potential upsets.
Sorry I meant to add that because we ae so small a town I hadn’t seen either film yet.
There needs to be a Meryl fanatics blog to accommodate some of these twelve year olds. They behave like my three year old who constantly ask mom for more candy. Nothing will satisfy them until the AMPAS awards Meryl numerous Oscars including wins for Music of the heart and One fine thing.
Maybe that is still not enough.
When will these hardcore Meryl-fans realize that the Academy is NOT snubbing her, the Academy actually made her a living legend. A lot of actors can get lucky, land a great role, nail it, and then win ONE Oscar, every now and then even SECOND Oscars happen (Hilary Swank, Sally Field), but there is only ONE artist with 17 acting nominations under her belt, and that artist is Meryl Streep. I know, I know, she deserves a third Oscar…WE KNOW…EVERYBODY DOES !
I, for one, am happy to see that there were so many excellent female roles in 2011, that the – in my opinion – outstanding top5 could have been easily expanded to (at least a) top10 : Tilda Swinton, Olivia Colman, Kirsten Dunst, Keira Knightley, Mia Wasikowska, Adepero Oduye, Emma Stone, Charlize Theron, Elizabeth Olsen, Felicity Jones, Maria Bello, Rachel Weisz. Add the five Oscar nominees, and basically the Academy could have gone with ANY variation, it would have been acceptable in the end.
When all is said and done, I’m just happy the Academy temporarily got over their genre-prejudice and nominated the excellent Rooney Mara-performance (boy, was I shocked ? I didn’t think she had it in her); AND decided to ‘get’ the very tricky, understated and easily misinterpretable brilliance that Glenn Close delivered in ‘Albert Nobbs’, not to mention they gave one of the best working actresses, Viola Davis her first Lead Actress nod AND didn’t shy away from embracing the quietly brilliant Michelle Williams for a second consecutive year.
Sure, it would have been great to see Tilda Swinton or Kirsten Dunst up there – and the list goes on – but hey, you win some, you lose some. There could be only 5…that doesn’t take away A THING from all these critically acclaimed, utterly brilliant performances that did NOT get nominated, it might even help them in the long run…sure, people remember a great Oscar-nominated turn…but they tend to ADMIRE a great Oscar-snubbed performance and usually that admiration leads to cult status…just saying…I mean, there IS a reason we bring up Swinton’s little-seen ‘Julia’ EVERY YEAR. I think when I will be looking back at the 2011 Best Actress race, I will think the BEST performances that were also Academy-friendly GOT the nod (except Mara, whose role wasn’t supposed to be the Academy’s cup of tea) AND the utterly fearless, too-much-to-handle-for-the-Academy type of performances (Kirsten Dunst, Keira Knightley, Charlize Theron, Elizabeth Olsen, Olivia Colman) were ignored…as expected.
That clip the showed of Clooney’s saying goodbye to his wife was very good. Saw The Artist and was not really blown away by Dujardin.
“The problem I have with the whole “Clooney gives a career best performance” argument is we heard the exact same thing about Michael Clayton and Up in rhe Air.”
Except that nobody said that about Michael Clayton and Up in the Air. But on the off chance that somebody somewhere said that, perhaps the phrase then should be ‘The Descendants’ is a career TRANSFORMING role for Clooney.
I’d rather the Oscar go to a performance of great texture and significance than a mine act by Marcel Marceau.
“Why can’t “The Help” become the first film since “Driving Miss Daisy” to win Best Picture w/o a Director Nomination and a DGA Nomination.”
Because the news for The Help is even worse than that. Although Driving Miss Daisy didn’t receive a director nomination, it did receive a screenplay and a film editing nomination. In fact, it had the most Oscar nominations of any film that year, even without a director nomination.
The Help not only doesn’t have a directing nomination, it also has no screenplay nomination and no film editing nomination. You have to go back to the Academy’s infant years (1932?) to find a film that won BP without being nominated in any of those three categories (and the Academy was a different beast back then than it is today, so not really that useful for comparison). Plus The Help is not even close to being the BP contender with the most nominations. Hugo, The Artist, Moneyball, War Horse, and The Descendants all have more. The Help ties with Midnight in Paris for 6th place out of nine. It has no nominations outside of acting and BP.
I know rules are made to be broken, but this one seems pretty insurmountable. I think it’s fairly impossible for The Help to win best picture.
OK, let’s see some – probably completely useless, unnecessary – precedent for the Best Actress Race (what can I say…I am BORED!) :
1. Although BA-winners almost always win a Golden Globe first, Halle Berry didn’t BUT she won the SAG…just like Viola Davis this year.
2. Although rarely, but a Best Actress contender CAN win without a SAG victory…but she needs the seemingly powerful Golden Globe (drama) / BAFTA combo…it worked for Nicole Kidman, IF Meryl Streep pulls off the BAFTA (likely), she might defy odds, too…although ‘The Hours’ WAS a bp-nominee…
3. Susan Sarandon didn’t get a BAFTA nod for ‘Dead Man Walking’, she didn’t win the Golden Globe and didn’t receive important critics groups awards, either, BUT she had a bunch of nominations already, so they finally gave her the Oscar…Glenn Close is in a similar situation, although Sarandon DID win SAG, but considering it was only the second year they announced winners, back then it probably wasn’t considered as strong of a precursor, as it is now.
Oh PLEASE God, make Clooney and Streep LOSE in one month and I’ll never complain again–I promise. FINALLY somebody is on to those two. Streep looked like a fat ass waxed dummy in TIL (absolutely atrocious performance in an awful movie) and George is such the media darling who thinks because he shows the want of vanity by going “gray” that we should all kneel at his altar. He stinks too–and usually makes one BO dud after another, but does a get fabulous press.
Sasha stood up for Brokeback Mountain big time and outed AMPAS for their blatant homophobia. She was stellar.
Dean, haha very true. Can’t fathom how people are fooled by Clooney. Hes playing a regular person in descendants yet uses a deep gruff voice as if he’s in a legal thriller. The guy is the great pretender of modern Hollywood all because people are reminded of cary grant. Clooney knows this too, which is why he is always dismissive of cinema and looks annoyed in awards shows, “acting is easy, no hard work in it,” he said. We know that’s the case for you Clooney.
It bothers me that people want to reduce The Help actresses’ achievement to “playing the magical negro” or “the mammy”. The Help isn’t the greatest movie, sure, but listen up, haters: slavery and segregation are major, major parts of American history. Shouldn’t they be open to artistic interpretation, in many different ways, by many different people? Just because Davis is playing a maid, doesn’t mean she’s not spectacular. Same with Spencer (though she’s not spectacular, really, just very good).
I also don’t understand how people think Viola’s role in Doubt is at all similar to her role in The Help, from either a character or a performance standpoint. I mean, she cries in both? Is that it?
“When will these hardcore Meryl-fans realize that the Academy is NOT snubbing her, the Academy actually made her a living legend. ”
Thank you, phantom! Nobody has taken that angle, but it’s time someone did. And definitely, agreed, that snubbing leads to cult status. Careers and images have been built on being snubbed by AMPAS.
@wow sets:
Clooney and Streep are the classic case of “The Emperor Has No Clothes”. When I listen to women on the Today Show or The View or GMA swoon over this middle aged man I want to choke. If men on the chat shows gushed, gushed, gushed over a good looking women in the same manner, they would be labeled sexist and beneath contempt.
Clooney is an average actor and Streep is a Rich Little with no soul nor originality in anything she does. You can see how truly awful she is (with that singsongly , dull, timberless voice) when she does a film without an accent–such as It’s Complicated or Heartburn.
dean
“He stinks too–and usually makes one BO dud after another, but does a get fabulous press.”
To be fair, even though his movies rarely cross 100M in the US OR end up with flashy numbers, the budget/worldwide total ratio is usually rather good when it comes to Clooney’s films, even with the occasional flops:
HITS
The Descendants – 150M+ (estimate) / 18M
Up in the Air – 167M / 25M
Burn After Reading – 164M / 37M
Ocean’s 13 – 311M / 85M
Ocean’s 12 – 363M / 110M
Ocean’s 11 – 451M / 85M
The Perfect Storm – 329M / 140M
DECENT PERFORMERS (thanks to low-budgets)
The Ides of March – 70M+ (estimate) / 12M
The American – 68M / 20M
The Men Who Stare at Goats – 69M / 25M
Michael Clayton – 93M / 25M
Good Night and Good Luck – 55M / 7M
O Brother, Where Art Thou ? – 72 / 26M
BORDERLINE
Syriana – 94M / 50M
Intolerable Cruelty – 120M / 60M
The Peacemaker – 110M / 50M
FLOPS
Leatherheads – 41M / 58M
The Good German – 6M / 32M
Confession of a Dangerous Mind – 33M / 30M
Solaris – 30M / 47M
Three Kings – 108M / 75M
Out of Sight – 78M / 48M
Batman & Robin – 238M / 125M
The good thing about Clooney, that he realizes that if he asks for a ridiculous salary, the film in question will have a hard time ending its run financially succesfully, so – especially in recent years – he went for low-budgeted prestige projects and since the financial risk is minimal, these films almost always turn profit. It also helps his credibility that he had only ONE (Batman & Robin) bad film during his feature career since his breakthrough in the mid90s, sure there are a few mediocre ones there (The Perfect Storm, The Good German, Leatherheads) BUT most of his films are good to great, sometimes, even if it doesn’t make money : Out of Sight, Three Kings, Syriana. So I guess his secret isn’t really a secret : he usually sticks to low-budget films with good/great scripts and avoids pricey tentpole-wannabes (clearly he learnt his lesson after ‘Robin’), this way his films actually MAKE money even if it isn’t always blatantly obvious at first look.
Almost everyone whose rooting for Davis to win, and that includes you sasha, are completely misunderstanding what the hard core Streep fans are trying to say. Honestly, for me, I thought the Academy Award of Merit is for WHO has the best performance of the year, and I’ve never felt glued to my seat at the theater, watching one act that Meryl Streep this year for her role in the “Iron Lady”
Yes, the movie will never win a “Picture, Director or Screenplay” award, but the acting prowess of Streep made me question myself if that was Streep in the screen or Margaret Thatcher herself.
Yes, she is the most lauded actress of her generation, or even all time, but when it comes to OSCAR, she’s LOST more than she has won. Come to think of it, it is actually an embarassment that she’s been nominated 17 times and only won twice. That means she’s more like the Susan Lucci of cinema, and I think it’s unfair for her that pundits like you keeps saying “Oh she’ll be great next time… Oh she needs to work with a Director who makes Oscar Caliber films… or Oh she needs to be in a film that is a Best Picture nominee.. of Oh she needs to top Sophie’s Choice before she wins”….. In that case, then why embarass her to nominate her for each wonderful performances she’s done only to say all of these “Oh’s”??
I love Viola Davis, I do! I was rooting for her to win for “Doubt” because she blew all the other nominees away with her performance, even with just a little time on screen. Is she a lead actress for “The Help’? NO…. Is she a supporting actress? YES!
Did she give the best performance of the year? One of, but not THE Best.
TILDA SWINTON gave the BEST performance of the year, but she got snubbed! And right next to her is MERYL… SO I think Meryl should WIN based on Best Performance!
I’m not even gonna go to that RACE part of it, I mean it’s ridiculous! Why does Viola deserve to win because she is Black? I am from Asia and there are far more GREAT actresses there if only given a chance to show their acting prowessess. Why should Viola win for lead in a supporting role just because it’s time to reward a second black actress of an Oscar? Halle Berry didn’t even deserve to win that Oscar based on performance alone! You know who deserved to win? Gabourey Sidibe! Instead they gave it to Mediocre Sandra Bullock!
So, After all of this non-sense talk, first and foremost, the Academy Award of Merit should go to the BEST Performance of the year, and not Who is DUE or Who can change History… That is why I think Meryl should win, for her “Next Level of Acting” showstopper that is Margaret Thatcher, wether you love the the former prime minister or not!.
thanks for pointing out my mistake on the editing but you’re actually making my case aginast THE HELP better the last film to win best picture w/o an editing nom was Ordinary People in 1980
Off topic, but reading “Dujardin is Begnini 2.0″ made me remind Begnini could be a Supporting Actor nominee next year for Woody Allen’s latest. I mean, the lol faces on plenty would be simply awesome, wouldn’t they?
UNCLE! I will be so glad when this award season is behind us. I don’t care if you are blue or purple; entertain me, enlighten me, show me something I haven’t seen before, broaden my horizons, make me feel my $10+ was well spent. It will be interesting to see what Viola Davis does with her Oscar clout, what is the story she wants to see told.
“thanks for pointing out my mistake on the editing but you’re actually making my case aginast THE HELP better the last film to win best picture w/o an editing nom was Ordinary People in 1980″
Yes, we knew this. Also, HAD Brokeback Mountain won, it would have been a winner with no editing nom. And it was the clear favourite to win.
Also…
I am a MERYL STREEP fan, and I am FUCKING PROUD of it!!! You can’t make me feel bad – Oscars are just entertainment.
If Viola Davis had taken Tilda Swinton’s role in “We need to talk about kevin” black people would still be up in arms about saying “Oh, that film is portraying it like black people don’t know how to raise our children and that they grow up to be convicted criminals.” Your damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I find it funny though that the black community is so up in arms about Viola and “The Help”, but yet they will continue to support Tyler Perry even though some people feel his films degrade black people. It’s almost like the black community isn’t happy unless they are picking apart something that someone in their community has done. A perfect example is that George Lucas couldn’t find any financing from Hollywood for his all black cast film, “Red Tails.” So he had to finance it himself. Instead of supporting that film by going to see it to prove to Hollywood that all black films work, they all stayed away in droves.
The black community picks apart the “Help” and Viola’s performance because they don’t like the “maid” stereotype, but this is based in history people. In the 1960′s most black women in America were maids. It’s like the black community only wants films depicted that tell of African American culture from either a civil rights leaders point of view or from a 1970′s onward point of view. That’s just not going to happen.
I think nearly all of the awards are locked at this point. The WGA will not be an indicator because The Artist was not eligible. One of the producers of The Artist will have to bribe the Academy by e-mail if there is to be any controversy.
I am sick and tired of all this “homophobia” and “racism” bullshit. Could it just be that the voters don’t like the films or the performances enough? There is no need to drag all of this liberal nonsense to this site.
“Yes, she is the most lauded actress of her generation, or even all time, but when it comes to OSCAR, she’s LOST more than she has won”
Really? So has EVERY SINGLE MAJOR ACTOR AND ACTRESS EVER!
No love for Oldman here?
^I predict that Oldman will WIN. There is love for him.
Cin,
Plenty of admiration here for Gary Oldman. I’m trying to set up an interview with him this week.
Suggestions for questions?
Knee play. How is it that seeing past Davis’ color and thinking her acting is brilliant is racist? You are the one who think the black community has an agenda. Get out of here. [deleted]
President Clooney’s been getting dumped on lately, huh? Yesterday there were even commenters saying he’s not that good looking. Christ, how do you think that makes ME feel?
He was beyond awesome in O Brother Where Art Thou?, merely awesome in Michael Clayton, Up in the Air, Three Kings, and nearly awesome in The Descendants. He presents an authority that holds the screen in a way that very few actors can. And the above roles were quite diverse. When you look and speak like Clooney, you don’t need to noodle with accents to remain interesting. He’s like Cary Grant. Gary Oldman, another badass thesp mentioned above is a chameleon, and he plays a variety of roles brilliantly. He’s different from Clooney but they’re both wonderful in those different ways. I’m not being very articulate here but screw it. Staying positive earns me some rhetorical leeway, right?
I would like to know if he had seen Let the Right One In before working with Tomas Alfredson. We know that that movie is the reason why he got to make Tinker Tailor in the first place.
@ The Dude,
I was talking about the Oscar, not all of hollywood in General! It is not Meryl’s fault that other MAJOR actors and actresses have not been given the chance to be Nominated at all! It is their own choosing what kind of movies they do!
RoberylowercaseA
I have to take our that insult, ok? We’ve decided to disallow use of the R word along with the N word and F word.
M1 “Liberal nonsense” as opposed to “right wing bigotry”???
I am liberal, a fucking proud liberal.
I love it when the right wing conservatives labels the idea of equality and social justice as “liberal agenda” as if being a liberal is a bad thing.
You don’t want people to drag “liberal” nonsense here, then don’t call people who embrace equality and social justice as being liberal “nonsense”.
Ryan,
I hope you do. I’d love to read it.
I know I’m in the vast minority, but Oldman’s performance was my favorite of the year. It was so beautifully understated and delicately nuanced, that I couldn’t take my eyes off of him. For playing a character that didn’t have much to say or do, he was nothing short of magnetic. It almost reminded me of Javier Bardem in No Country for Old Men. Everyone is talking about Pitt and Clooney putting out career-best performances. I’d make the same argument for Oldman.
I don’t really think he has much of a chance of winning (even if he ends up winning the BAFTA), but I’d love nothing more than to hear his name called on Oscar night.
Got ya. Ryan, I apologize.
Won’t use the R and F word any more.
How does the sag award change color?
Oh no, the F-word’s out? Even as a term of endearment, like “Fincher’s so f-ing badass?” Fudge, now 20% of my vocabulary is gone.
I think the SAGS didn’t change anything other than Jean’s chances of best actor. For better or for worse, I predict The Artist best pic, Streep best actress, Clooney best actor, Spencer and Plummer. (I hated Beginners though)
Different F-word. The one about one minority is off limits.
wait, what? gays are a minority? are you sure?
I’ve been operating under another fucking assumption.
I wouldn’t be so sure on this website, but it’s the Oscars, so…
If Davis wins Best Lead Actress Oscar, it will be because she was in a popular message movie, not for her performance (similar to Bullock). Of the nominees, Streep gave the stand out performance, hands down. It’s a no-brainer.
Dean–you’re an idiot.
I love Meryl. I want Meryl to win. I think she gives the best performance this year and deserves to win. But, if Viola does win, there are so many positives that will come out of it for her. Although I don’t think that is a prereq for a win, I am happy that it is an outcome nonetheless.
And let’s be honest, Viola’s win will be nowhere near the travesty that was Bullock’s win. That was a joke.
Also, yes, it is always nice to win. But 17 nominations is an ENORMOUS accomplishment. I hate that idea of “biggest loser in Oscar history” because it implies that it would be better if Streep wasn’t nominated in the first place. That is ridiculous.
I would rather be nominated 5 times and not win than be nominated once, win, and then disappear (a la Paltrow). To be nominated that many times shows that you are beloved through a long span of time. Fuck the win–if these last few years have revealed anything, it is that a nomination is an honour and the win is usually irrelevant.
Anyway, I wanted to say… I think Oldman takes home Best Actor:
#1. Personal reason. I have said this for more than a decade: When Oldman finally gets nominated, he wins.
#2. Clooney won recently, and he will have plenty of chances in the coming years (despite not being versatile at all compared with Oldman). Pitt is a bit overdue (he was great in 12 Monkeys), but he’s also everywhere. I don’t buy the Hollywood royalty crap.
#3. Oldman is British. Not sure if they have good Brits to vote for in other categories this year.
#4. Hugo makes sure that The Artist will not sweep. Dujardin may not win. I think he’s on the same level as the other three (minus Bichir who doesn’t stand a chance in Hell).
#5. People know he can do anything. Something more subtle (like in Tinker Tailor) or Dracula, Lee Harvey Oswald, Beethoven or whatever. Versatility. Great doing accents, too.
#6. Oldman has worked so much that practically half the voters know him. And he’s known as a good guy (many of his characters have been really psychotic bastards).
#7. Academy owes it to him. “Sorry, it took us this long to nominate you.”
#8. He would give an excellent speech.
@ Brandz….
I completely agree! Which is a shame since the ACADEMY is suppose to be about the performance that year, not whose in a better movie! Oh well, I’m not surprise, I have begun to question the Academy’s credebility since Brokeback lost to Crash….
Sorry Ryan-just saw the rule about the “F” word. I wish I could edit! Sorry!
Oh…that F word. Phew. I would never use that one!
Wow, let’s turn a friendly discussion about film and awards into a sh*tstorm of bad feelings and finger pointing. If it wasn’t for the snark and bad blood apparent on BOTH sides of the argument, we could all be happy.
What ever happened to this site, anyway?
Davis is waaaaay out front in this race. I could give a dam less about it winning Best Picture. I want it to take 2 acting awards, and by golly, I think it just might. GO VIOLA & OCTAVIA!!
Addition to #2. Clooney is versatile as doing something else than acting. Director, yeah. Sure, Gary has also directed – the rather wonderful Nil by Mouth.
@ Dean:
“Clooney is an average actor and Streep is a Rich Little with no soul nor originality in anything she does. You can see how truly awful she is (with that singsongly , dull, timberless voice) when she does a film without an accent–such as It’s Complicated or Heartburn”
I guess your perfect actors are the likes of Megan Fox or Taylor Lautner I assume?
“The black community picks apart the “Help” and Viola’s performance because they don’t like the “maid” stereotype, but this is based in history people. In the 1960′s most black women in America were maids.” r
- ryan
You know what is also based in history? other generations like, I don’t know, the 70s with black female rock n’ roll singers and actresses like Pam Grier. You know what is also based in history? hmmm let me see, the 1900s with the rise of female MCs like Salt n peppa and Queen Latifah. What else? the history of contemporary times where black women are doctors, nurses, school teachers, depressed, happy, neurotic, sane, insane, first ladies of countries etc etc etc
These are all based in history buddy so why does Hollywood only insist on giving lead roles and Oscars to one type of black woman? The fat sassy mammy is always guaranteed to win. Just ask Hattie, Hudson, Monique and Octavia come February. Whoopi Goldberg won for playing another stereotypical role ( the voodoo priestess/ comical DELETED). So yeah, what were you saying about based in history???
@Ryan
“Suggestions for questions?”
Smiley is introduced with a shot from his blind spot. Was this motif of perspective present in the script & rehearsals, discovered on set, or emphasized during the editing process? Like, was the camera’s/audience’s return to the perspective of Smiley’s blind spot part of Oldman’s understanding of the character going into the film?
Now that I’ve finally accepted Meryl won’t win ever (it kinda not hurts anymore), I’ll try to deliver the message of the Streep fans in a non-emotional way.
To a Streep fan, at least most of us, it’s a dream come true to see her win the Oscar one more time. And mind you, most of us weren’t born the last time she won. I myself included. And to see her almost get there in the past few years is very, very, very frustrating. And we know that she has given a performance worthy of the Oscar. I think many of us can attest to that. But, due to the notion of “she’ll be back next year” is really getting to our nerves because if we follow that logic, it implies that most likely, she won’t win in a given year because she will be most likely nominated again. But then again, the reason why she gets nominated again because the momentum #3 is building and building. It’s like going in circles. Had she won #3 already, the hype on each of her performances wouldn’t be so high.
Meryl is the last actress in the world who need another award. I think I can say that she has surpassed almost everyone in the acting branch of AMPAS. However, it doesn’t add up that Meryl has two Oscars despite the countless noms. What’s more frustrating is that if some actress win for fair performance, why not Meryl who seem to be battling with her previous performances before she can win? The expectations on her performances have been unbelievably high that it’s really impossible even for her to surpass.
IMO, if Harvey “The Punisher” Weinstein cannot deliver her the third Oscar, then all hopes are lost. We all know Meryl doesn’t campaign to get an award.
By liberal nonsense, I mean ideas that are liberal that are also very extreme. The idea of giving a woman a standing ovation because she is black is appalling to me. I don’t agree with the posts at the top of this section, but none of the other actors at the SAG got that big an ovation. Why did Davis specifically get one? So annoying.
“Ever notice why InContention doesnt have to delete posts?
Because they…don’t…take things personally.”
That’s because their site isn’t infested with trolls with bad judgment. None of this racism bullshit ever comes up.
As for the Oldman interview, I’d like to know why he decided to start acting. Cliched, I know, but I’m interested.
Even though Streep “only” has two Oscars, she still has the most nominations ever. So she does have bragging rights over something. Even if she never wins again, she’ll easily win a Lifetime Achievement Oscar, which she totally deserves.
@ Mathira….
Well said my friend! I am sick to my stomach actually. Don’t lose hope though. I was kinda expecting the SAG to go to Viola since Meryl won for Doubt 3 years ago. But I still have home that she will win her 3rd, and most deserved Oscar!
I am irrate about the whole “She’ll get it next time” or “She’ll be nominated for next role”…. I mean WTF! Seriously?!? I have been following this site since Chicago and every year Meryl has the performance of the year, the pundits always say “Oh she’s always great, but it’s not her year, it’s so and so’s year”….
Yes it’s an honor to have been nominated so many damn times, but for me, it’s already an embarassment that she hasn’t won the Oscar since sophie’s choice, ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO!
I’m black.
I’m an actor.
I LOVE “The Help” and Viola Davis.
I worship Meryl Streep.
Why all of the hate people?
I hate when people say “blacks only win for negative, stereotypical roles”. Honestly, I find those roles the most interesting and challenging. I think Halle Berry said it best in the film “Introducing Dorothy Dandridge”, “playing a maid is a world easier than being a maid”!!!
LMAO @ Deena Jone’s Wig. Then let people make a film about Salt n Pepa or whatever they want, but if you want a black person to be the subject of a film that is dated from the 1960′s back, then they are either maids, servants or slaves. That is how it was for Black people back then.
You can be mad or upset at me all you want, but I did say in my original post that if “the black community” only wants it’s lead actor’s to do roles other than the one’s I mentioned then they can only pick from a limited amount of “History”, the 1970′s onward.
“We all know Meryl doesn’t campaign to get an award”.
That is a big, fat lie, Mathira. Have you seen her schedule throughout this season. THAT’S campaigning!
Watermelons, thanks!
That’s such a brainy question, I’ll now have to think of other relatively clever things to ask so Mr Oldman won’t think I suffered a meltdown for the rest of the interview.
Also, Hudson and Mo’nique didn’t win for playing a “Mammy.” Also, Hattie McDaniel did something that most people in Hollywood can’t do. She took a part that could have been one note and in one scene she nailed it out of the park and that is why she won her Oscar. It’s a shame that for the rest of her life her own community would ostracize her and make her an out cast for playing that role.
I honestly don’t get the “black community” at all. I’m in the “gay community” and I am happy everytime an openly gay actor gets a role. I don’t care if it’s stereotypical or not it’s a paying gig for them. At least now the “black community” doesn’t have to deal with what the gay’s do, “straight” people taking our film roles.
What an exhausting thread. I thought the trick was not minding…
@julian
Let me rephrase: She doesn’t want the Oscar as bad as anyone else.
And please don’t bite my head off. I’m trying to come clean.
Ryan, have you read Bordwell’s recent blog post about Tinker Tailor (http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2012/01/23/tinker-tailor-a-guide-for-the-perplexed/) ???
The good doctor cites all the times when the glasses hinder/aide Smiley’s perception and notes Bill’s line about Ann being Smiley’s blind spot.
Also please get Alfredson on the line and ask him if his next project will also examine social masking of sexual identity through the lens of Cool Genre Secret Identities (vampires! spies!)
Uh, I mean, Kate “THE GREAT” Winslet somethingsomething Titanic etc
@ Julian the Emperor:
Yes, she has been campaigning for this year, but in the past, especially the last 5 nominations she’s gotten, she doesn’t campaign.
Ryan,
What I loved about his performance was that it was incredibly introverted. He didn’t really give people anything to go off of in regards to what he was thinking or feeling. He was very confined. The only time Smiley displays any vulnerability is when he witnesses his wife cheating on him, when he recounts his first meeting with Karla, and that brief moment at the end when his anger gets the better of him (even for a brief moment). How challenging was it to play a character so internalized and emotionally subdued?
@DenniGee
Thanks. I share your frustrations too but I don’t think is with us at the moment. That’s why I’m not expecting, but still rooting for Meryl. If she does win this year, my officemates will be showered with beer and pizza.
I’m suprised that a lot of people are still online considering it’s daytime here in the Pacific.
@Cin
Yes! And note that the physical signal we’re given of Smiley’s vulnerability. When he sees Ann with someone else, he pushes his glasses back up his nose. There are a couple other moments where Smiley’s energy distinctly spikes, though not from vulnerability.
Meh, for once Streep is campaigning. Good for her. Apparently that is the only way you can win Oscar.
Another part I absolutely love:
When they’re throwing the Christmas party, and George tries to smile at Ann’s sings. I say “try” because it almost looks like he’s struggling to do so. He just can’t fully express himself – even in moments of happiness. And when he sees Ann cheating on him later on, he doesn’t weep, he doesn’t fly into a fit of rage. He loses his breath for a moment, collects himself, and walks away.
In his profession, he has to be the smartest man in the room. He can’t let anyone in, nor show any sign of weakness. As a result, he’s become so emotionally closed-off that it’s almost impossible for him to connect with others on an emotional level.
It has a real tragedy to it.
*I don’t think the industry
Booo mobile internet
“If she does win this year, my officemates will be showered with beer and pizza.”
Yes, but wouldn’t that happen anyway?
@ RobertlowercaseA
i never once said that the black community has an agenda. not even close. also, did you seriously call me a “f****t”?
@ Mathira:
I a rooting for her through and through… I know it’ll happen, and I’m excited. If it doesn’t happen, I might have to re-consider my support in watching the Oscar’s year after year, or their credebility for that matter. But then again, I’m only one, pretty sure they don’t care hahahaha.
I am throwing a party if she wins! Boy oh Boy I will
@ Brandz:
It is sad actually, that the only way now to win an Oscar is to CAMPAIGN! That is why I’m questioning now AMPAS’ credebility!
I’ll be so happy that all these parties these Streep fan boi’s are saying they are going to throw when she wins won’t happen, since she is losing to Davis. I’m a big huge Streep fan myself, but this is not her year. I’ll throw a Davis win party though.
If by chance Viola Davis doesn’t win, she can always play the lead in “The Rosa Parks Story” and then I’m sure the Academy would have to give her the Oscar. It would be a continuation of the role she played in “Doubt” and “The Help” and be the climatic third part.
OT: Warner Bros. has scheduled TROUBLE WITH THE CURVE (that title won’t stick), a baseball drama starring Clint Eastwood and directed by longtime Eastwood assistant director Robert Lorenz, for September 28, 2012. That puts it in play for the upcoming season.
@m1
No. I don’t treat people often. Hell, I don’t even have a birthday present for myself.
@DenniGee
Sounds awesome!
There goes the “It’s not her year” retort again! BTW, I am not a FABBOI sir.. I am in for the PERFORMANCE, as it should be! If you read my posts earlier, I WAS ACTUALLY ROOTING FOR TILDA, but she got snubbed!
I don’t get it? What heat? The Help doesn’t have director and screenplay nods. It’s going to get one or two acting award. BAFTA won’t help much as Streep and Oldman will win. The Artist will sweep, the only defeat will come from screenplay and arty direction.
Clint Eastwood AND baseball? Dear God. I gotta lie down…
@ryan
fangirl, not fanboi. I’ve been mistaken as a boy too many times.
And it’s as if the parties will really happen.
Clint Eastwood AND baseball? Dear God. I gotta lie down…
I know. I can see the FYC ads already.
“I was talking about the Oscar, not all of hollywood in General! It is not Meryl’s fault that other MAJOR actors and actresses have not been given the chance to be Nominated at all!”
Nope, what I meant is that pretty much every actor and actress that was nominated lost more, or much more, than they won. And in some cases, they don’t win at all: Richard Burton and Peter O’Toole have 15 noms between then, and zero Oscars.
“It is their own choosing what kind of movies they do!”
You mean, not do Oscar baiting films every year?
The reason I think too so long for Streep to win another is because most of her films are, well, crap. The only truly great films she did in the last 25-30 years (I might be forgetting someone or not watched it, of course) were The Bridges of Madison County and Adaptation- as well as the Fantastic Mr. Fox, but she couldn’t win for that of course. That’s too few by someone recognized as one of the greatest actresses of all time, if not the greatest.
Nearly all the times she lost the winner was in a film that was better (or at least a more popular one among Academy voters).
I thought FANBOI are only for CHRIS NOLAN Fans? Which I am too btw!
@ The Dude:
Thanks for the clarification… At least O’toole has a Lifetime Achievement, which doesn’y necessarily justify their loses.
However, I will disagree with you, because I think She turned in great performances in “Devil wears prada” and “Doubt”… Also, she was far more superior as JuLia Child than eventual winner Bullock!
Don’t tell me that it’s about the performance. Of course not. Streep was great, but unlucky fore her she starred in one of the worst films of the year. Shouldn’t really won for that. Viola Davis, again was brilliant – in a supporting role. She had more screen time than Octavia and Chastain, but the leading character was Emma Stone, who’s strangely overlooked. You’re telling me that Bejo isn’t lead, but supporting. Even if I look over the fact that Davis is supporting (hey, Kate Winslet and Forest Whitaker won lead for supporting role) it’s still not even in the top 3 performances of the year. Same goes for Streep. Michelle Willimas should have won last year, now she’s back this year with a perfect Marilyn portrait. And it’s a Weinstein film. Why isn’t she winning?
@ Alfred:
That is what I’m saying… Although you’re rooting for Michelle, I was rooting for Tilda until she got the snub, and the number 2 performance for me was Meryl’s…
I go as far that Meryl and Viola shouldn’t have been nominated based on performance. I name you 5 performances and tell me that I’m wrong.
MICHELLE WILLIAMS in MY WEEK WITH MARILYN – You can compare this to Streep, even though Meryl nailed the role, there was no film behind her, whereas Michelle got spot on an icon that is probably the most difficult character to play
TILDA SWINTON in WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN – What a daring and storming performance, at least she got nominated elsewhere
KIRSTEN DUNST in MELANCHOLIA – Completely overlooked, haven’t seen sadness and depression expressed this good for a long time
ROONEY MARA in THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO – You might disagree with this choice, but she didn’t have to put make-up on for a transformation, she did it entirely and didn’t put a foot wrong in the whole film
And last is my favorite performance of the year:
OLIVIA COLMAN in TYRANNOSAUR – Now I wouldn’t expect her to land an Oscar nod in a million year, but it was hands down the strongest performance of the year and she’s not getting recognized by the BAFTA is a disgrace, it shows you that the BAFTA is not about British film at all, it’s a focus group for the Oscar
I agree that the Academy is biased towards African-American actors and actresses. America is not predominantly black, from it, yet the Academy does feel it has to go out of its way to be supportive of black actors. This is why every other year a black actor wins while other minority actors are rarely nominated, let alone win anything. Blacks, only 11% of the U.S. population, totally dominate sports, music, AND the movies now. Is it time to stop feeling so sorry for African-Americans?
SAG voters were given the responsibility of voting for best performances and voted for Viola Davis for Best Actress in film. That’s all we know.
To imply that the SAG membership voted for her because they have an ulterior motive is to make an unfounded and insulting accusation. We cannot read their minds and no one has surveyed the membership regarding their motives.
Saying that SAG members voted for Davis because of her race is insulting to Davis and is an accusation of racism against her supporters.
I am deeply insulted by many of the comments in this thread.
You don’t know what you are talking about. You can’t. It’s not possible. You know who you are.
If you think someone else gave a better performance. Great. I respect your opinion. I think Davis’s was best and am entitled to that opinion without having my motives second-guessed….. as are SAG members.
I don’t see Clooney winning the Oscar. I think the Academy recognized the film and Clooney with nmms, but they aren’t giving him the Oscar.
Personally, to me he is not a good actor. He just goes through the motions and lacks depth. The emotional scenes are not believable. It’s just Clooney playing a guy with a family.
On the other hand, Dejardin has it all, he did comedy, drama, dancing, all those scenes with a dog, all that accounts for alot.
Oscar will go to Dejardin.
Bafta’s will be very difficult to predict, will they go for Fassbender since he’s so talented and was snubbed big time by the Academy, or will it go to Oldman since he’s overdue to be recognized, or Dejardin because he’s so excellent in this movie?
I love how the Streep apologists claim they are Streep fans, they adore Streep, yet they root against her.
@ ALFRED:
I Agree with you but with Rooney Mara, she did have to put on a transformation, Piercings, colored her hair, smoke etc… I guess it’s hard for me to root for her since I’ve seen the Swedish versions so the character “Lisbeth Salander” already had Noomi Rapace in my mind. It’s like if someone else played Harry Potter in two different films. Maybe if they waited another 5 years or so, I’ll buy it…
Don’t get me wrong though, I thought Fincher’s Directing was impeccable as ever!
Is it time to stop feeling so sorry for African-Americans?
As far as I’m concerned, it’s time to start feeling sorry for people like you.
Denni Gee: What I meant that she did the whole transformation. It wasn’t just a make-up that she could take off after the end of the daily shooting. She went all in. She still has the nipple piercing in case they’ll do a sequel. Michelle tops Meryl when it comes to biopic, Tilda, Kirsten and Olivia Colman top Davis when it comes to an average Joe character.
***Whoopi Goldberg won for playing another stereotypical role ( the voodoo priestess/ comical c**n). So yeah, what were you saying about based in history???***
I’ve seen a lot of disturbing comments made here in the last few weeks. Some of them not just made by those who visit the site. But the one above is like the straw that broke the camels back. You couldn’t find a better way to illustrate your comment except to allow your intelligence to slide into some area of decay to make a point? SMH.
I think it is actually quite funny to read all these diatribes. Do the Oscars really matter that much? We have to keep in mind that some of the most remarkable & wonderful American actresses have never won an Oscar: Glenn Close, Annette Bening, Julianne Moore, Joan Allen, etc. Do we really think less of them because they have never won an Oscar? If you ask anyone: “Is Sandra Bullock really a better actress than Julianne Moore?” or… “Did Reese Witherspoon really deliver superior and more riveting performances on screen than Glenn Close?” … and we could go on with “Did the simplistic and preachy Crash really deserve the Oscar for Best Picture over Brokeback Mountain?” Simply asking the question is actually giving the answer. The Oscars are in reality pointless and meaningless. The whole circus is more about the “campaign” & insiders politics than about the films & the performances. It’s too bad that they get so much media attention and coverage. Many other awards seem to be more reliable in terms of quality and artistic relevance.
Regarding the exceptional Meryl Streep, I ask myself the following question year after year: “Could any of the other nominees have played her part so convincingly?” I personally cannot imagine Miss Bullock even attempting to play Julia Child, but on the other hand, Streep could easily sleepwalk through a simple role like Bullock’s in The Blind Side. Yet, who won that year? Please, do not get me wrong, I do like Sandra Bullock, a lot, like everyone else, but let’s be realistic here. This year, who else among the other four nominated actresses could have portrayed a more credible and authentic Thatcher? No one. I must say though that Michelle Williams did give an outstanding & brilliant performance in “My Week with Marilyn”. In any case, it doesn’t really matter if Streep wins or not. She’ll still be great and we’ll still love her for her exceptional talent and artistry. Glenn Close never won… (even when she was absolutely stunning and unforgettable in Dangerous Liaisons & Fatal Attraction) and yet, she’s easily considered as one of the greatest actresses in America next to Streep, Oscar or no Oscar.
Hey, not to “derail” this conversation, but wouldn’t it solve everything simply to nominate (and, later, AWARD) Kate Winslet for Best Actress in a Leading Role in recognition of her work in Carnage? I’m not sure any other performance honestly stacks up against Kate the Great and it’s perplexing that her undue absence is not the focus of this conversation…
@ Aflred:
They I could Argue that Mery did went all in too. The Mannerisms, the accent, the voice… Most people would say they were watching Thatcher, not Streep.
Whoopi Goldberg won for playing another stereotypical role ( the voodoo priestess/ comical DELETED).
Deena Jones’ wig
What’s wrong with you? Are you deliberately trying to offend everybody with your language?
You’re about to run out of second chances, ok?
Re: the thread on “The Help”
I wish that critics, academies, bloggers, and fans could simply focus on the quality of the performances and not on all the side issues. The characters of Minnie and Aibileen are who they are, written for the novel and adapted for the screen. Someone has to play them if the book is to be translated to film. Folks may have all kinds of issues with the source material, the ugliness of racism, and the stereotyping, but the question remains: who is to play these characters as they have been written? I think both Viola Davis and Octavia Spencer gave outstanding performances in the roles in which they were cast. To what degree the performances outshone or fell short of others in the same awards category is really the only criterion for voting, or at least it should be. We all have our causes, agendas, prejudices, politics, and so on, but the time to wield such opinions is when the book is being written or the screenplay is being developed, and the wielding is up to the novelist or screenwriter. Once the performance is in the can, it should stand or fall independently of everything else, at least where acting awards are concerned. Otherwise we are rewarding points of view, casting decisions, writers’ blind spots and insights, or alignment with our personal values, but not acting.
The same goes for all the talk of who is overdue, who still has a long career ahead, who got robbed the previous year, and so forth. If the award is for performance, judge the performance and leave the rest of it out of the equation. If the vote were for best cinematography, would all these peripheral issues even arise? Of course not. Neither should they in the acting categories.
On another note: Thank you Sasha and Ryan for providing this forum and for keeping us reasonably civil. I wish the academy members were as passionate as some of your correspondents, but some of them (the academy members) seem to be snoozing.
“If the vote were for best cinematography, would all these peripheral issues even arise? Of course not.”
This ain’t all that relevant to your argument, but Roger Deakins’ 9th nomination for Best Cinematography (True Grit [2010]) totally resulted in some talk ’round the ol’ AD comments section about how he was overdue. Then he lost to Pfister and I don’t remember if people still cared all that much.
Dear “D”
You forgot Beah Richards in 1967 for “Guess Who’s Coming…..”
Everyone with eyes can see The Help is a mediocre film which doesn’t deserve awards.
Tell it to the thousands of SAG members who gave The Help 3 awards, pal.
Maybe you’re the blind one. Maybe you’re just hateful.
tf1.
Pick one ID and stick to it.
This is the 5th ID you’ve used this week. What that does is give the impression there’s a gang of people who think like you do.
You’re one person. Don’t hide behind multiple masks. Own up to your own comments — one ID.
You were moved by Rooney Mara in Dragon Tattoo?
DuJardin is Benigni 2.0 but more humble and less annoying
Thanks for the Bordwell link, Watermelons.
Love analyses like that. Feels like a 400-level college seminar.
(Looks like interview with Mr Oldman will be Thursday afternoon.)
My first glimpse of Gary Oldman was in the fab Stephen Frears movie “Prick up your ears” – he and Alfred Molina were brilliant, and in the same year “Sid & Nancy” with Chloe Webb came out. An impressive first year on film. It’s great he is getting wide recognition 25 years on!
@Ryan and @Cin
Love that this Tinker Tailor discussion popped up. Showed up to a fight, a hockey game broke out, or something like that.
And, hey. Hey Ryan. If I get into UCLA for my MA, can we hang out? I have an anecdote ’bout Bogdanovich to share, and I probably owe all y’all AwardsDaily folk a beer or some wine.
What about tan men? In a world of Teilight and melanoma, we have become punchlines, snickered at and ridiculed. Is there no place for half-opened shirts and sleazy bronzing?
Seriously though, the comments deriding Viola or her esteemed reputation as an actress reveals either your intolerance or your ignorance. If you feel someone else is more worthy of an Oscar, great! You are expressing a subjective opinion that helps drive discussions on AD. But focus on the performance. Viola deserves that much.
daveinprogress
“he and Alfred Molina were brilliant”
Alfred Molina: zero Oscar nominations. Let’s fix this before the decade’s over, Academy!
Yes another criminally overlooked actor – his chameleon like turns in American and British films show his versatility, but somehow have added to his elusivity. (such a word?)
“another criminally overlooked actor”
I would have lost so much money betting that he’d been nominated for Frida… And I’d forgotten he was THAT GUY in Boogie Nights (probably because his scene has that oppressive tension of an actual nightmare – oy)
I love Meryl, but I’d love to see her win for a movie that is actually watchable. She can do drama like no other, so I’d like to see her actually do a straight drama, and no camp, and maybe then she’d win.
Is Meryl the best actor of all time? Maybe, maybe. Certainly the title of best living actor works.
But fact of the matter is, each time she has been nominated in the past 10 years, she did not give the best performance of the lot. She was NOT better than Catherine Zeta-Jones in Chicago (maybe not great “acting,” but what a display of talents and charisma), Helen Mirren in The Queen, Kate Winslet in The Reader, or Viola Davis in The Help. Meryl was better than Sandra Bullock in The Blind Side, but even then Gabourey Sidibe probably should have won it, not Meryl.
I think I understand Deena Jones’ wig’s point of view and her “rage”–I put that in quotation marks because I believe Deena Jones’ wig is a person of colour, and I don’t want to perpetuate the “angry person of colour” stereotype that is so prevalent today. As an Asian myself, I’m also tired of seeing the same tired stereotypes of us portrayed onscreen, as well (and we don’t even get nominated for awards!). I think DJW’s language, while offensive to some eyes, is actually well-placed given the context of what she (or he, or even they, if trans) is trying to express. It’s a little too late in the evening for me to be expressing myself better, but I just wanted DJW to know that I understand where you’re coming from. I also understand that this was Sasha’s favourite performance out of the 5 nominees, so I think you need to cut her some slack on her defense of the performance. I think both of you make some good points, but both of you make some weak points. And Ryan (AD Ryan, not ryan), I think you’re misinterpreting the intention behind DJW’s choice of words. I understand they’re not acceptable, but I found the “What’s wrong with you?” to be out of line, as well, for the reasons I gave above (I’m glad you finally banned the “F” word, btw). But that’s just one middle-aged Canadian’s opinion.
As for ryan (not AD’s Ryan), I think it’s entirely offensive that you think that black women were only maids, servants, and slaves in the 1960s. Many were artists, writers, poets, performers, activists, farmers. They may have been prevented from some of the more elite professions, but that doesn’t mean there were other roles for them to play in society during that time. And as a gay man myself, trying to compare gay history and identity in the US with African American history and identity just doesn’t wash. They are two completely different histories (though they might occasionally intersect with queer African American history) that gave rise to completely different experiences. No one cares if you don’t understand why Black people feel the way they do.
Knee Play, as someone who is also earning his PhD with a focus on queer racialized activists (and who also originally hails from the GTA), I can tell you that flashing your academic credits is never a good strategy for defending your position. All it does it make one come off as elitist and makes others think, “Well, if she is a hard-left leaning feminist, why does she say the things she does?” In moments of heated discussion, such as what (often? usually?) occurs in the fora on this site, it is best to keep a cool head and try to figure out what it might be in your text that is offensive (and possibly misinterpreted) to others. When people talk about film on this site, they are obviously passionate about it. When identity politics is inserted into the discussion, all hell usually breaks loose. I’ve been a loyal follower of Sasha’s for maybe 7 years now, and I’ve seen many a battle played out here (some of which I’ve participated in myself), and the amount of energy lost while engaging in frequently pointless discussions is not always worth defending your point. Just sayin’.
Finally, I should say that for the first time in like forever, I have seen none of the performances nominated for Best Actress this year (though I am looking forward to seeing Albert Nobbs when it finally comes out next week). None of the other films interested me enough to spend my money on. However, I think it would have been interesting if both Davis and Adepero Oduye were nominated. Again, I haven’t seen Oduye’s performance, but it’s one I can get behind based on what I’ve heard about it from friends who have seen the film already (it has yet to come out in Montreal, sadly). I wonder what the discussion would be like if two African American actresses were nominated in the same year; hell, I wonder what the discussion would be like if two racialized women were nominated in the same year–I was so hoping that Michelle Yeoh’s performance would be good enough for a nomination. I’m still waiting for the first Asian actor or actress to be nominated for a lead role Oscar–the only one I can think of who was ever nominated was Merle Oberon (though I suppose an argument can be made for Keisha Castle Hughes as a Pacific Islander). Certainly enough white people have been nominated for playing Asians–hell, one even won (Luise Rainer for The Good Earth). And it’s even worse for Arabs and Native Americans. Even latinos, given how much of the population they make up in the US, can’t seem to get a fair shake. It would be great to finally see that kind of diversity play out–here in Canada, we’ve managed to dole out awards to Korean, Inuit, Arab, and South Asian actors and directors…and we’re more white up here than the US! Someone needs to get Harvey Weinstein to start diversifying his roster!
Anyway, that’s my rant for the month. Back to my dissertation!
If the word offends people then it’s offensive. It would sound awful in any movie, awful in person, awful in any context. It was intended to shock and I think it goes overboard. It’s deleted, and that’s the end of it.
This discussion is already coarse enough, don’t you think? Why inflame things more?
MAY MERYL, VIOLA, THEIR FAMILY, THEIR FRIENDS, THEIR AGENTS, ASSISTANTS AND PUBLICISTS NEVER READ THIS VILE POST.
As Meryl has said many times: “There’s no such thing as a ‘greatest living actress’ or best actress.”
Awards are lovely things but doing the work is what we remember. (For example, I have no clue who won best supporting actor last year. I’d have to google it.) In a year’s time, this will be history. Thank G-d.
is actually well-placed given the context of what he is trying to express
how so?
who uses words that like? what type of person thinks in those terms? – the writer of Ghost? Whoopie Goldberg herself? No, it implies something that’s wrong, so it’s not well-placed.
” The idea of giving a woman a standing ovation because she is black is appalling to me.”
How did you conclude that the reason Davis got a standing ovation was due to the color of her skin????
Has it ever occurred to you that gave her a standing ovation because of her acting skill??
The color of Davis’ skin obviously is an problem to you. So do you feel appalled when Mary Tyler Moore got a standing ovation because she is white??
Talking about right wing non sense or bigotry disguised as reverse racism, that’s nonsense.
What ever happened to the “edit” feature where we could have about 4 minutes to edit our comments? Just curious.
I think a few times Streep has been the best of the five nominees, but not the best of the year.
I think she was the best in 1987 when Cher won. But in my opinion Maggie Smith gave the year’s best performance in THE LONELY PASSION OF JUDITH HEARN.
She was certainly better than Sandra Bullock in 2009. But my favorite performance of that year was Tilda Swinton in JULIA.
We tend to forget a performance (Oscar wise) once it fails to get nominated.
So this year, for the sake of argument, let’s say I agree that Streep is the best of the nominees.
My favorite actress is Tilda in KEVIN. So, if Streep wins, it would be less of an injustice than Viola winning. But still the year’s best performance loses.
Disclaimer: This my own personal opinion. If you disagree with me, be nice.
The idea of giving a woman a standing ovation because she is black is appalling to me. I don’t agree with the posts at the top of this section, but none of the other actors at the SAG got that big an ovation. Why did Davis specifically get one?
m1, if you were right, then Octavia Spencer would have received a standing ovation too.
Since she didn’t, then you’re obviously wrong. I wouldn’t have expected this of you.
As my sister says, “Don’t come around here with all this foolishness.” So many actresses named in this thread are/were great in their awarded/nominated roles. Gabby, Tilda, Hudson, Mo’Nique, Whoopi, Mirren, and so on and so forth. The fact that some of you are determined to battle it out to this point I think show true intent. I mean, even Zooey finally gave it a rest. (Wait, did she?)
The Iron Lady is a painful movie, Meryl is a revelation. Can’t vote for her. The Help is truly enjoyable, Viola is marvelous. Makes it easy for me. Rooney is great as well. (I didn’t like Michelle). Hmmm… I know the last isn’t Tilda or Charlize, but is it saying something that I’m going to have to google the fifth? Ah, Glenn Close. I feel bad, but I think it’s just the nature of her character, because she’s wonderful. My opinion will change when I watch these films back later. But man, am I not gonna grind some salt about how – er – This Actress does(n’t) deserve because of this over-reaching argument designed to divide. Grow and stay or go away. Passion makes us all a little tipsy, but garbage always reveals its need to be trashed.
Wouldn’t it be happy if we live in a world where the color of one’s skin doesn’t matter ever? (at least it will in choosing dress colors)
The way some of the readers on this site are flipping out is, in short, a reason why the content of a film like THE HELP is still so relevant–literally a summary of a reason. Just scroll back through the last 208 or so comments.
2003, Jack Nicholson wins the BFCA and Golden Globe for ABOUT SCHMIDT (Alexander Payne), but loses the SAG, BAFTA, and Oscar.
2012, George Clooney wins the BFCA and Golden Globe for THE DESCENDANTS (Alexander Payne), but loses the SAG, (BAFTA?, and Oscar?)
@Ryan,
Questions for G. Oldman (the ithought police wanted me to write old man)
I think this is all you need Ryan…
What was it like giving Penn, Harris & Reilly an acting masterclass (police say master lass?) in State of Grace?
Why didn’t the studio back you for best supp. Actor in JFK – was there a conspiracy?
Your performance was subtle and subdued in TTSP – did you kick the shit out of the best boy during takes?
Do you like it when scraps rubs up and down on your leg?
You are primarily responsible for Ray Winstone’s success – does he send you flowers?
Have you ever seen a grown man naked?
Oscar ballots go out now. The fight begins. Discount anything before–guilds, critic awards, globes etc.
Now, ballot in hand, this is the real campaign battle. Behind the scenes.
If you’re not paid by the studios to campaign, leave the fighting and the advocacy to the experts. Don’t fight here.
Enjoy the craft of the nominees, celebrate them.
[deleted]
Big, bad Ryan took down a post of mine about the Chlotrudis nominations. (This is the same Ryan who once called me “Dr Duh” in a post and whose use of profanity in posts would make the screenplay writers of “Scarface,” “Do the Right Thing” and “Pulp Fiction” blush.
I posted that Sasha wouldn’t be happy with the small number of Chlotrudis nominations garnered by American independent films. Was I not postulating about something with which the vast majority of the site’s readers would agree?
The second part of my post postulated that if Fincher’s “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” had been an independent film and then snubbed by Chlotrudis, Sasha would have burned Chlotrudis to the ground. Same reasoning as above-mentioned.
What, has Sasha NOT ascribed attributes of racism, prudishness, close-mindedness, etc. to some voters???
@aneed
Ryan’s not into you buddy, he’s taken.
Why would you say something like that?
Okay, the Halle Berry comparisons must stop. Viola is in a different league. Completely.
Viola Davis has two Tony awards. The reason that Halle Berry’s career took a nosedive after her Oscar win is because she chose shitty follow-up roles. As good as Berry was in Monster’s Ball, subsequent years have not been kind to that performance (or win).
If anything, Berry should have used her Oscar win to her advantage – she should have been pickier, taken on more challenging roles, done some theater, starred in an HBO miniseries, etc.
But enough about Halle, because she’s not that good. Davis, on the other hand, is a tremendous talent. Even if she wins next month and is never nominated again, that’s okay. Good directors will always seek Davis for strong character roles, even minor parts.
Whatever, this trash talk against Davis is just pissing me off. If anything, why not get yourselves riled up over shitty actresses who win undeservedly. There are so many of them after all. For example, here are three “best” actresses who have yet to live up to their Oscar wins (fact) and, were it up to me, would have their Oscars revoked
Gwyneth Paltrow – Shakespeare in Love
Julia Roberts – Erin Brockovich
Hilary Swank – Million $ Baby (she really only deserved Oscar #1)
Also: Sandra Bullock deserves her Oscar more than Halle Berry, btw. Yes, it was a mediocre flick,but at least she continues to turn out good performances. I can even see Bullock receiving another nom down the road.. or bettering her Blind Side performance and being snubbed by the Academy.
Halle Berry is more a case of a one-off amazing performance that isn’t really indicative of range or longevity – the performance is just so out-of-this-world amazing that the Academy has to reward it, even if the actor really may never shine in another performance or receive another nom; the Academy is rewarding the “role” rather than the actor behind it (Jennifer Hudson, Mira Sorvino, Helen Hunt, etc).
Berry’s had almost 10 years to prove that her Oscar win was deserved. Sorry, but I don’t watch X-Men, Catwoman, and Gothika and think to myself, “Wow, Halle Berry is one of out greatest living actresses. She totally deserved that Oscar!”
Ditto Renee Zellweger, Catherine Zeta Jones, Rachel Weisz, Reese Witherspoon, and on and on and on…
Alas, it’s not going to be Meryl this year, which is okay. Viva Davis. Just be patient, Meryl fans…If another 5 years go by and Meryl STILL hasn’t won her 3rd Oscar, then we can riot in the streets and Occupy the Oscars. I mean, can we really imagine a world in which Meryl Streep has as many Oscars as Hilary Swank? (Sorry to keep knocking Swank, but either she’s an extremely limited actress – only able to convincingly portray transgenders, tomboys, physically impressive women – or she just picks the worse scripts/directors available. She needs to do a gritty independent, stat.)
For those of you who want Meryl to win for Iron Lady, ask yourself this first:
Would you want to see {Insert name of America’s greatest living actor} win an Oscar for portraying Ronald Reagan or Bob Dole in a schmaltzy biopic?
“I love how the Streep apologists claim they are Streep fans, they adore Streep, yet they root against her.”
Or maybe that’s because they don’t think she gives the best performance? The awards are not about “favorites.” If that were the case, then she would have at least three by now.
As for the two recent comments, I consider Swank’s performance in Million Dollar Baby to be one of the best performances in a Best Picture winner of at least the past decade. Weisz’s win is one of the best in that category of that time frame as well.
Quickly: I think Meryl was excellent in a subpar film. I think Viola was excellent in a marginally Lead/Supporting role in a film I enjoyed very much. I’m fine with whoever wins (of those 2).
The race thing: not going near that with a ten foot pole. Y’all are crazy.
My thoughts on Best Actor: I REALLY wonder if Oldman can pull it off. Just think, you have your ballot, you know the Oldman story, his name is there, “Hmmm, yeah, I’m gonna go there, I’m gonna pick Oldman. It won’t go anywhere, but I think it would be great if he won”. etc. THAT sentiment, plus help from a lot of the British voters could end up in a surprise win for him nudging out Dujardin, Clooney, and Pitt. No? Ehh, I can dream.
In all seriousness, I think his name being read and the ensuinf speech would be one of the best moments of Oscar in a long, long time.
@ domdom,
and do you know what America’s greatest living actor could actually achieve – a career of 25-26 nominations and at a point they’ll say: Hey, let’s throw her a supporting actress trophy for a mediocre little movie, in which she has 10 minutes of playing what she’s supposed to play in her late 70′s (somebody’s mother a la Ruby Dee) and do you think such a performance will be a way to honor that great career?! Because that’s likely to happen. Meryl will lose again and again. And maybe not every time she is the best. She certainly isn’t, but there were many times when she actually was and got snubbed. And this will continue as the ‘next year’ will continue.
I have nothing against Viola Davis winning an Oscar. I don’t want to be like the anti-Streep crowd and pretend that she’s terrible. She’s far from terrible. She’s an exceptional actor and from what I’ve seen (not in her speeches because – let’s be honest – they’re terribly self-important) in her interviews, she’s somebody who takes her craft very seriously, wants to tell stories and her work matters to her. She did wonders with what she was given in The Help (and at least she came up with a character – something I can’t say of Octavia Spencer; all due respect, this was a caricature of a character and something the black community doesn’t need – another sassy maid!), but to me and it matters, Meryl was better. The movie may be not very good, but The Blind Side or The Reader weren’t better movies. And of course, better movies didn’t help Meryl in the past. She lost for great work in films that were really well-liked and major contenders overall.
@ Chance,
Zooey is a HE
And Zooey is a MALE name actually. It comes from Zachary. And no, he wouldn’t give it a rest. Even though he tries.
I saw how happy Meryl Streep was when Viola Davis’ name got called out in SAG award… and I wonder why such a big hoo-hah about MS vs VD…
I am sure the SAG ensemble award will have no impact whatsoever on the Best Picture outcome.
@Hoyohoyo: Well, that´s why she´s called the “greatest living actress”!She acts like if she´s happy (one part of her is of course happy for Viola Davis), but I think she´s also deeply disappointed that she didn´t win. Every actor/actress wants to win an award. And I think Meryl Streep will win an award.
So many people seem to forget what the category is call “Best performance by an Actress/Actor in a Supporint/Lead role”. Not “best body of work” or “Most likeable” – and should be judged as such. It never is, but it should be. I love Meryl Strep and I would have personally handed her 6 Oscars – but not for ‘The Iron Lady’.
As for the supporting/lead debate in regards to Violas category placement – it is not just about screen time. So many things come into play such as character impact/presence throughout the film, story arch as well as screen time. I do not besmirch Anthony Hopkins his lead actor Oscar for a role that was little more than 16 minutes of screen time – because for me he felt like the a lead (second to Foster).
Aibileen opens and closes the movie and her presence is felt throughout the film. Skeeter is a close second but for all the directions the film takes, they all lead back to Aibileen – as does the audience.
Sadly this “Who should win Best Actress” debate is getting so ugly. Some of the comments I have read on here and other sites are so offensive and racist that it just goes to prove things have not changed all that much from when ‘The Help’ was set.
People should be debating about the performances and not the politics – regardless of the fact that the Academy never seems to vota that way (Mo’Nique aside).
There will be fans of the performances of each of the nominees, but because someone thinks differently does not mean commentators have the right to be insulting and go on the attack. Be nice please.
@Michael: Sorry, but I think this is Streeps´ best performance in years!
But you´re right in one thing: This Streep/Davis depate is really getting ugly. We will see who will win the next Oscar! There could be so many surprises this year.
Thanks for agreeing about the ugliness. I thought Meryl was very good in the film – however whilst I thought her as Thatcher suffering from dementia was absolutely amazing acting, I found the rest of the performance serviceable – good even, just not great. I could even argue that her Julia Childs was more fully realised – but have to add that it is only my opinion for fear of being verbally assaulted by strangers.
“She’s an exceptional actor and from what I’ve seen (not in her speeches because – let’s be honest – they’re terribly self-important)…”
Just for the record, I disagree with this and some other posters who are finding Viola Davis self-righteous in her acceptance speeches. I find her honest and heartfelt. I’d much rather listen to a Davis speech than have to listen to yet another vapid acceptance speech where the winner rattles off a laundry list of thank yous, from agents to hair stylists to the mail boy.
Meryl Streep is a great actress and a wonderful person and i sure she will be happy if the Viola Davis win a oscar, but please, of course, she will be more and more happy if she herself wins!! kkkkk
And if Viola Davis wins, its not the end of the world… she is a great actress, beloved and very talented and is in a movie beloved and was a huge sucess.
I still think she is good in movie ( not great ), but she is is in the wrong category, she shoud be nominated in a suport role…
And please guy´s, i still think Meryl deserve the oscar, but if Viola wins it´s not so bad…
Bad bad and awful was the vitorys of Gwneth Paltrow and Sandra Bullock for mediocres performances. Ugh!!
alan of montreal
Thank you Sir. Finally somehow understands where I am coming from. This is not about Viola or Meryl. This is about a larger issue which some people don’t, and surely ever won’t, get.
Ryan
My apologies. I didn’t know that word was off limits on awards daily.
I can’t believe this battle is still raging!
In my opinion, Streep is the “best actress” of the lot, but Rooney gave my favorite performance. Favorite – not best – is what it’s all about at this point and I gladly accept the fact that AMPAS may choose Davis, for whatever reason. She’s a brilliant actor, as well, as are Close and Williams. There is no need to deride any of these actors to justify your favorite – not this year, anyway.
Same with actor – no question that Gary Oldman is the “best actor” in his group, proven time and again over the past 25+ years. That doesn’t mean I think it’s his best performance; neither should it detract from what Clooney, or any of the others, did this year. Bashing Clooney or Pitt, etc, is infantile.
It’s the Oscars, for christ’s sake, not a political primary circus where something is (perceivably) at stake. The day after, it’s over. Only the bad remarks will remain.
There was an interesting comment regarding Halle Berry and her choices after winning her Oscar. You can’t choose what isn’t there. If the type of roles or films aren’t there to enable an actor to flex their ability there’s not much that they can do except hope they have enough cash to be able to foster a project and work it through and that can take years as we’ve seen actor relate over and over. And sadly many times when actors do this the work never measures up to the passion they bring. Anyone remember Sally Field in Not Without My Daughter?
There’s a pecking order in Hollywood whether your male or female. This year’s cash cow gets the money thrown at them and usually mediocre roles. If there were a bio pic being made of Madame Curie announced tomorrow the list of actresses initially considered probably would look like this. Meryl Streep, Glenn Close, Annette Bening, Kate Winslet, Julianne Moore. When they do a bio pic of Coretta Scott King you can be guaranteed Viola Davis will top that list. Actually not a bad idea. But then J Edgar wasn’t a bad idea either and look how that did. It’s the way the business works. Producers and directors don’t just look at talent they look at who will pull people into a theater and plunk down 15 bucks to watch a movie. How many great roles are there every year? Ten maybe fifteen? This year and this is just my opinion, everything I’ve seen is flawed in one way or another.
But we do need to keep in mind that film has come a long way from the thirties and the forties, a even longer way from the silents. Shame would never have been made thirty or forty years ago. The Reader would never have been made and if it had slipped through it would have been so watered down you wouldn’t even recognize what we saw on film. Isn’t that why we call so much of the work that has gone before dated?
Davis [still don't think she should win] is saying, and I really get it; that there needs to be the same kind of work for ethnic actors as there is for white actors. Not just the fluff but stuff an actor can sink their teeth into and bite off a big piece of raw meat and taste the blood. We know the male equation in the ethnic minorities [at least in english language films] have achieved that to some degree or names like Denzel, Will, Morgan wouldn’t be recognizable by a vast majority of the public. Viola is on that line right now. She’s hitting the glass on the ceilng and demanding that her talent be or find the same kind of vehicle that Meryl finds to showcase her talent. I get all that. I just think she needs to find a better platform or a a better way to make the point.
The Theater and Television has found that common ground. But Broadway is so different from film and what has been achieved on the stage has not transcended to celluloid. Television is such a different media because it’s really more about that 20 minute sit com and that 40 minute soap opera. Viola has mastered both of those and now she’s wants to master the big time. I hope she does.
I’m really sad that I can’t get behind Viola winning for The Help. I was behind her winning for Doubt and it was annoying she lost. That film allowed the public to discover her. Now Hollywood has to find the work to sustain her and not turn her into that “character actress” who gets ten minutes of film exposure. The other thing we need to keep in mind when we begin comparing performances is that you can only bring to the party so much because it really is dependent upon what’s on the menu. If someone is serving sloppy joes and you bring filet mignon you’re gonna be out of place. I think that’s an apt description of Meryl’s predicament this year. Viola brought sweet potatoe pie to an informal dinner party and it was just what the host and hostess wanted. That’s not a bad thing in my opinion. I would have liked her to have brought that sweet potatoe pie with a nice heavy dose of home made whip cream.
Viola if you’re listening or reading find someone to do or produce a ethnic version of Long Day’s Journey Into the Night. You’d be amazing.
Damn now I gotta go find some good sweet potatoe pie or break out my recipes. God life is so challenging. LMAO.
Almost everyone whose rooting for Davis to win, and that includes you sasha, are completely misunderstanding what the hard core Streep fans are trying to say. Honestly, for me, I thought the Academy Award of Merit is for WHO has the best performance of the year, and I’ve never felt glued to my seat at the theater, watching one act that Meryl Streep this year for her role in the “Iron Lady”
Yes, the movie will never win a “Picture, Director or Screenplay” award, but the acting prowess of Streep made me question myself if that was Streep in the screen or Margaret Thatcher herself.
I don’t think it’s right to argue with you about what is weak about Streep’s performance compared to her other work. Despite what all of you think, Streep is one of my favorite, if not my favorite, actresses. She’s right up there with Shirley MacLaine (Postcards is one of my all time favorite movies) Jane Fonda Faye Dunaway Kate Winslet … and Viola Davis. These are all brilliant women. It’s easier to see what Streep can do because A) she’s a great mimic (so is Michelle Williams, incidentally, both women are proud of this ability) B) she is offered a part like Thatcher’s to play. Give the same role to Viola Davis and she’d blow your fucking minds. But alas, if you keep telling stories of the past you are going to ensure that those stories repeat the racist notions of the past – that only white people rule. So, here’s the thing. Streep has been much better in other roles. Missing in her Margaret Thatcher is a soul. The reason, Streep is too smart to put one in Thatcher because Streep herself has no way of accessing Thatcher except to see her as an ordinary old woman suffering old age and missing her dead husband. Well, if you want a great old person performance by Streep check out Ironweed some time. I know that the key to playing Thatcher is to play her hollowed out. But when I look into her eyes in this role I see nothing. There is nothing there. And if you are saying to me, just see Margaret Thatcher, I’m going to say that isn’t enough. Impersonation isn’t enough. Davis on the other hand not only must also speak in an accent – contrary to what people think about her she doesn’t talk like her character in The Help, and play someone who is opposite who she is in real life. Yet because we don’t really have any narrative pathways to access that character except stereotypes we refuse to see anything but the stereotype. How awful that is.
At any rate, that is what I really think. To me, Davis and Swinton and Mara are the three tops this year.
Hey Sasha….I think in all the years of following you and this site…which has been for many many…you and I have never (NEVER) agreed on Best Actress….I think we’ve finally found some common ground….I am a Streep fan for sure, but this year, I will not be satisfied unless Davis wins….she was exceptional.
Thanks. Nice to hear.
“Viola if you’re listening or reading find someone to do or produce a ethnic version of Long Day’s Journey Into the Night.”
I would crawl through broken glass to see her in that. How about something long format on HBO – she would dazzle.
Well in case you’re interested (to the poster who said I might like Taylor Lautner) (I don’t)–the actors for me are Gary Oldman, Joseph Gordon-Leavitt, Vanessa Redgrave, Glenda Jackson, Luise Rainer, Olivia de Havilland, Charles Laughton, Paul Muni, Vivien Leigh, Jane Fonda, Henry Fonda, Bette Davis, Errol Flynn-and about half of Crawford’s career.
All of whom are infinitely superior to anything that La Streep or El Clooney has ever done.
Poor George and Meryl (whose [Deleted -- Dean, you're being childish and crude ~ Ryan] has been all over the place campaigning like crazy)–they thought they “had” it before Sunday night.
I can tellya they will both lose.
I’ll say it again–she’s a Rich Little mimic-that’s it- who has done a whole barrel full of horrendous movies (remember Plenty) and won accolades far beyond what she’s deserved.
And Clooney is a totally manufactured star who makes dud after dud (really can anyone actually sit through Solaris? or The Men Who Stare at Goats?, or The American?)and yet for some reason gets away with it.
But that’s why I’m here to remind you.
Sasha, I agree with you on Streeps performance this year. Soul was what was missing for me – although it was technically excellent. It all comes down with what moves a person – an no amount of arguing and insults can change that.
What? Seriously, I didn’t think people would still use arguments like “She’ll win because she’s black”. What is wrong with you guys? After all, our blood has the same color, what difference does it make the color of the skin? I hope the Academy doesn’t think like that anymore, otherwise it would be very very wrong. Now as others pointed it out, Sasha, I don’t know why you would think that it’s unlikely for both to win. I would say that it’s very likely and I would even bet that that’s what is going to happen. Sure, The Help doesn’t have the number of nominations that The Fighter had when both Bale and Leo won, but Viola is a respected actress among her peers and while I am not really rooting for her, for me she’s the frontrunner in her category.
I believe Meryl’s chances are hurt by the fact that The Iron Lady is far from being a great movie and the overall quality of it tends to eclipse her performance, just like it happened to Leonardo DiCaprio in J. Edgar. In this category, I was seriously rooting for Tilda, Elizabeth Olsen and Rooney Mara, but unfortunately only Mara managed to get a spot. I see it hard for Meryl to get the award without having her movie nominated, despite being one of the most acclaimed actresses still working. Even Sandra Bullock and Kate Winslet had their movies nominated for Best Pic, although the reception of them wasn’t that good. Many people rolled their eyes because of The Blind Side and The Reader (directed by the same Daldry who has another controversial pic nominated this year) nominations.
1991 – Kathy Bates for “Misery”
While I do respect Meryl, I think that she doesn’t really have a masterpiece, a movie dominated by her force, which revolves entirely around her. The Deer Hunter is a masterpiece, but it’s far from being ‘hers’. The same can be said about The Hours. Interestingly enough, when she won her Oscar for leading role, she did it for Sophie’s Choice and that movie wasn’t nominated for Best Picture. I don’t think she was ever snubbed for an Oscar – her other competitors just had better performances, although in 2003 I wouldn’t have given the Oscar to Zeta-Jones. If the “she is long overdue” pretext didn’t work out last year with Annette Bening, I don’t see why it would work this year (Not to say though that they don’t hand out Oscars in order to repair their previous mistakes – see Russell Crowe). I just…don’t feel it this year.
I was curious to see how many times did an actress won an Oscar for a leading role without the movie being nominated for Best Picture, so I started counting and I got 30. Therefore, out of 83 ceremonies, only in 36% of the cases, an actress won without having her movie nominated for Best Picture and over the last two decades, this happened 7 times. Will this happen again? I don’t know yet, but seeing the massive support for the cast of The Help, I believe we’ll see a double win at the Oscars for Octavia and Viola. While I wasn’t too impressed with the movie overall, these two did a great job. Of course I would give it to Rooney Mara, but she doesn’t have a chance. So here’s the list with the years when the movie for which an actress won didn’t get nominated for Best Picture.
1) 2008 – Marion Cotillard for “La Vie en Rose”
2) 2006 – Reese Witherspoon for “Walk the Line”
3) 2005 – Charlize Theron for “Monster”
4) 2002 – Halle Berry for “Monster’s Ball”
5) 2000 – Hilary Swank for “Boys Don’t Cry”
6) 1996 – Susan Sarandon for “Dead Man Walking”
7) 1995 – Jessica Lange for “Blue Sky”
9) 1989 – Jodie Foster for “The Accused”
10) 1986 – Geraldine Page for “The Trip to Bountiful”
11) 1983 – MERYL STREEP for “Sophie’s Choice”
12) 1975 – Ellen Burstyn for “Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore”
13) 1972 – Jane Fonda for “Klute”
14) 1971 – Glenda Jackson for “Women in Love”
15) 1970 – Maggie Smith for “The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie”
16) 1964 – Patricia Neal for “Hud”
17) 1963 – Anne Bancroft for “The Miracle Worker”
18) 1962 – Sophia Loren for “La Ciociara”
19) 1961 – Elizabeth Taylor for “BUtterfield 8”
20) 1959 – Susan Hayward for “I Want to Live!”
21) 1958 – Joanne Woodward for “The Three Faces of Eve”
22) 1957 – Ingrid Bergman for “Anastasia”
23) 1953 – Shirley Booth for “Come Back, Little Sheba”
24) 1948 – Loretta Young for “The Farmer’s Daughter”
25) 1947 – Olivia de Havilland for “To Each His Own”
26) 1936 – Bette Davis for “Dangerous”
27) 1934 – Katharine Hepburn for “Morning Glory”
28) 1932 – Helen Hayes for “The Sin of Madelon Claudet”
29) 1931 – Marie Dressler for “Min and Bill”
30) 1930 – Mary Pickford for “Coquette”
Dean, “The American” and Clooney’s performance in that movie are criminally underrated.
Steve
I’d pay a small fortune to see her do it on Broadway.
Not that it should be a Broadway project but there’s just so much excitement with a live performance. Imagine Longs Days updated a bit and maybe with an interracial couple and the two sons representing the ethnic background of the mother. I nominate Steve McQueen of Shame fame as director. Eugene O’Neill would be sitting where ever he is chanting “go team go”.
“Poor George and Meryl (whose fat ass has been all over the place campaigning like crazy).”
Switch ‘Meryl’ to ‘Viola’ and you see the comment being DELETED. Of course, you may say all sorts of shit about Meryl.
“And Clooney is a totally manufactured star who makes dud after dud (really can anyone actually sit through Solaris? or The Men Who Stare at Goats?, or The American?)and yet for some reason gets away with it.”
All those three are good films, dude. I sat them through, and I own two of them on blu-ray.
Dissagree with the coment that said the Meryl Streep “has been all over the place campaigning like crazy”. If this woman is famous for something in the bussiness is for REFUSING to do campaing for herself (there are proofs of that). Actually, there’s not another reason of why she has not win a single oscar in trillion years. The one who does campaing is the one who wins, and you are seing (and are going to see) the press FLOODED with Viola Davis praising reports (that should be called “campaing reports”). I know for a fact that Streep doesn’t like to do campaing, and she is never going to do it, NEVER (neither the next year of course. She finds it disgusting, end of story).
““Poor George and Meryl (whose fat ass has been all over the place campaigning like crazy).”
Sasha and Ryan,
why has this comment not been deleted and why is Dean not in moderation? so it is ok to call Meryl Streep fat and desperate but I can’t voice a negative opinion about Davis’ acting or the sociological implications of The Help? SMH
^It’s so fashionable to bash Meryl. It happened a couple of years ago, and it happens again. Note that Sasha is not bashing her, she thinks Meryl is one of the greatest. Some of these readers, on the other hand. Phew.
If Viola wins, I can be happy about that. I have nothing against her (Why would I? She was great), nor do I have anything against any other female nominee this year. The biggest crime Academy did this year was snubbing Tilda, so the Lead category is already fucked up. Really. It’s unforgivable, but somewhat expected – ‘Kevin’ is too real for Academy.
why has this comment not been deleted
I had net connection problems the past few hours and had to get a new modem today. Have been trying to keep an eye on the site via smartphone, but things slip past us.
honestly a childish remark like”fat ass” from a troll is way less offensive to me that implications that Viola Davis is playing the race card every time she appears onstage unable to disguise the fact that she’s black.
But if it will placate Meryl’s fans we can take out those two words.
Thanks for Calling Attention to ‘Fat Ass’ by Repeating It So We Are All Sure To Notice, DJW.
Now what? I have to delete your comment too, right?
Streep won Globe Drama and is a huge favorite to win BAFTA. Many people think BAFTA has no bearing on Oscar but just ask Tilda Swinton and Marion Cotillard if that holds water?
Streep for her 3rd Oscar (I mean C’mon man)
Oh, well. I repeated it too.
If you don’t mind? Yes, please – delete those, too
You are correct, it is nowhere near as offensive as pulling the race card on Viola. True. It’s just stupid.
>> To imply that the SAG membership voted for her because they have an ulterior motive is to make an unfounded and insulting accusation. We cannot read their minds and no one has surveyed the membership regarding their motives.
Saying that SAG members voted for Davis because of her race is insulting to Davis and is an accusation of racism against her supporters.
I am deeply insulted by many of the comments in this thread.
You don’t know what you are talking about. You can’t. It’s not possible. You know who you are. <<
If you think someone else gave a better performance. Great. I respect your opinion. I think Davis’s was best and am entitled to that opinion without having my motives second-guessed….. as are SAG members.
I think you are guilty of lumping all the comments that make a case for race having at least something to do with the vote of SAG into the same basket and also of distorting many of the comments.
America is not a race-blind nation yet. SAG is not race-neutral, either. Racial considerations exist across the spectrum of American society, however you may think to the contrary and whatever ideals we are supposed to be held up to.
Elite colleges and universities (Harvard, Amherst, Princeton…), for instance, do NOT have race-blind admissions. Their admissions favor certain minorities and not others, based on test scores, percentage within the student body, percentage admitted, etc.
No one is ascribing any ulterior motive–YOU are, however. Race places a role, to a greater or lesser extent, in all of our decisions. Given the history of the Academy of Arts and Sciences, if one looks over the pattern of voting over the past 50 years, it is apparent that a shift has occurred to favor African-American actors getting nominations and awards at a disproportionate rate to their proportion of the U.S. population.
Hey Ryan: I said that Meryl and her fat ass have been all over the place campaigning like crazy. Is that not an accurate description and truthful statement? Why was that deleted and who are you praytell to call someone “childish”? I don’t mind being called crude-I take that as a compliment.
If you want to ban me and deny someone their free speech rights–go right ahead. And I’m a critic of Streep and Clooney. I am NOT a so-called “troll”–whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean. I have a point of view and I express it in my own way.
And if that bothers you and I’m going to get banned anyway, then kindly go fuck yourself.
Dean
You see a fat ass, I see a troll.
You’re not banned. But it’s not a wise path to tell me and Sasha to go fuck ourselves.
I forgot to add and I think it is germane here: There are considerations that all of us wonder about regarding AMPAS: Are they tilted towards a certain age (of actor), appearance (“babes”), personality (ex: Russell Crowe hit someone in a London hotel or bar before the Oscars 8 years ago), political considerations (Clooney is a liberal, Vanessa Redgrave they don’t like because of her views on Palestine despite the London gala for her a month or so ago), nationality (very hard for a non-British European actor go get recognition, even harder for Asian/African/Latin American), popularity and years within the industry, race (yes, it is NOT racist to ask whether or not this played a factor; it is naive to think otherwise), religion, appearance, comedic/dramatic, etc.
And “The Help” is a film whose central theme IS race relations. Race almost always ignites heated discussions–it is what it is. But to stifle discussion about race and to condemn or denigrate opinions held about the factor of face in decision-making and choices at different levels of society is counter-productive, in my opinion.
As one who is nearing 60, I was not as moved by Viola Davis’s performance as others possibly because I had seen “In the Heat of the Night,” “to Kill a Mockingbird,” etc. in the ’60s. Her speeches were reminiscent of Sidney Poiter’s confronting Rod Steiger (“You call me, MR. Tibbetss!”): I knew what to expect and it was old-hat. I think this era has been mined for what it’s worth.
And everyone knows the impression that actors leave on others when they give their speeches: the Oscar goes as much to the way the actor is perceived accepting an award. You don’t like the speech, you’re less inclined to vote for that actor.
When Ms. Davis spoke in an awards speech of “the burden of the past for all us, not just people of color,” (my paraphrase), I kept thinking to myself “the burden of the past will continue to be a burden until we decide to, not forget the past, but move on, stop continually reliving the past, and take responsibility for our happiness and well-being in the here and now and in the future.
The “barrier” Halle Berry broke (with Denzel Washington) a few years ago was not broken for all people of color, I am sad to say. Asian-Americans have received one acting nominations in the past 20 years! Hispanics have done somewhat better. [Foreign actors have as bad a record as Hispanics in securing acting nominations. Catherine Deneuve, Gerard Depardieu--one nomination each in their entire acting careers!].
How can anyone expect soul to be reflected in a performance of Margaret Thatcher? That wasn’t going to happen.
Streep is absolutely brilliant in the role and she makes you even feel sympathy for the woman in her dotage. But to play Thatcher as a soulful woman on par with those of a maid who is being oppressed would not have worked.
I actually think Streep totally immersed herself in the part, much more than any impersonation she’s done before. But the movie and writing around her triumph failed her.
Paul,
Nice job pulling back to give us a long shot of the broader cultural picture and larger historical context.
Easy to get lost in this forest, and we’re so close to some of the trees I think a lot of our noses are scuffed with bark burns.
The dearth of nominations for other minority actors is of course a direct result of having so few important roles written for them.
The movies that get made are the movies expected to make money. If the success of The Help at the box-office helps open some minds in corner offices, then it’s hard to understand how anyone wouldn’t see it as a triumph that could have far-reaching effect.
“The dearth of nominations for other minority actors is of course a direct result of having so few important roles written for them.”
And even when those important roles are written for them in acclaimed films like The Last Emperor, Crouching Tiger, Ran or The Joy Luck Club, the Academy won’t nominate name because they suddenly can’t remember their names. It’s as if these Asian actors are invisible to them.
Oh dean, oh dean…you are so good at digging your own grave.
If your physical age is any older than 12, you have some serious psychological ‘catching-up’ to do.
Is the title of the article somehow suggesting The Help can upset on Oscar night because of the SAG wins? A movie with no Directing, Writing, or Editing nominations has ZERO chance of winning Best Picture. Z-E-R-O