In this Corner…
It is the one of the more bizarre realities of any Oscar race where poor Meryl Streep is involved that her fans become damn near vicious, ready to take anyone down who opposes her. Of course, on the one hand, this is sweet – their loyalty and devotion is admirable. But as any blogger knows, if you mess with Streep online you will get a lot of nasty commenters attacking your site. No other celebrity, as far as I can tell, draws such a crowd. At any rate, though they be friends in real life, the heated race between Viola Davis and Meryl Streep has drawn more fighting here than any other topic, probably, except, well, when it was Sandra Bullock versus Meryl Streep. Probably the ire comes from Viola Davis having won the Critics Choice award but then the Screen Actors Guild award. Our bias is for Davis, as we’ve made clear. This, because her performance is truly the more moving and powerful of the five, in my own opinion. And also because of the rarity of any black actress being up for the award at all. It’s 2012 and we have a black President and yet you would never know it by the landscape of television or mainstream Hollywood movies. Both of these ideas are important and worthy of discussion. Also worthy of discussion, Streep’s brilliant portrayal of Margaret Thatcher in The Iron Lady. Many feel she is way overdue for that third Oscar. She is the best living actress and yet she’s only got one lead actress Oscar. The critics went completely for Streep – no critic would touch The Help, except the BFCA - and Streep’s fans, after being driven nearly mad by the Bullock win, are furious because they think she might not win this time. I’d say Davis has the edge because of the SAG but Streep has the edge because of the Weinstein. The publicity for Streep is off the hook. The Davis machine is rolling too, but no one can best the Weinstein co. So I’d say it’s even Steven right now.
Since I’m having to delete comments right and left, ban users and close comments – I’m going to open the thread up wide so you commenters can say anything you want about the topic. I’m not going to delete anything, I promise. As long as it’s not a racist attack against any of the actors in the race. So let’s hear it. Your best case. Your worst insults. Fling them freely for all to see. As usual, homophobic comments and out and out racist and bigoted attacks WILL be deleted. But you know, basically it’s a free-for-all.
Ready, go.
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I think both ladies would be appalled by all of this. Streep fans, like me, are biased toward her, but we don’t all automatically dislike her opponents, if it’s even fair to call the other actresses that. Davis was great in The Help and I am torn between the idea of film being a medium for social consciousness and my desire to see my favorite actress receive recognition for a job well done.
For the Oscar, I say Davis by a nose.
After the SAG there really is no beating Davis. I just really think she should have been campaigned in supporting. I would love to see Davis win an Oscar, just not for this. I feel that a Best Actress win for “The Help” will ring false in years to come when people realize that this is actually a supporting performance. Just give it to Streep already. That we can be over and done with this overdue stuff.
Why does the editor of this site CONSTANTLY make racial issues?
There’s a reason why Meryl Streep has legions of fans, she’s the epitome of acting excellence. And there’s a reason for fans to be extra vicious this year: she’s going to lose again despite giving the greatest acting performance of the year.
And by about this same time next year, America will have President Mitt Romney.
On another note. I just don’t get the Octavia Spencer thing. I’ve spoken to many friends of mine who follow the oscars, and we’re all just flabbergasted that she is winning all of these awards. I just don’t get it. She was good and certainly warrented her nomination. But winning. Really?! Not when she is up against so many other talented more richly cultivated performances ::cough, cough:: Janet McTeer
it’s a tough call….I initially was going Viola, then I saw the Iron Lady…which I didn’t hate as much as some….it’s really a story of a lonely woman over a weekend suffering from Dementia….I don’t know that it necessarily needed to be about Margaret Thatcher….I think by a hair, Viola wins, but I won’t be one bit surprised if Meryl does….and I have been a Meryl supporter for years and was part of the vitriol when Bullock inexplicably won….
And there’s a reason for fans to be extra vicious this year: she’s going to lose again despite giving the greatest acting performance of the year.
That is a matter of opinion. She’s given many great performances throughout her career. There was something distinctly missing with this one, despite the mastery of technique. But the soul was missing because I don’t think anyone could find Margaret Thatcher soul very easily. Moreover, the movie was chicken shit with its politic and it backed way off of Thatcher — didn’t take a side and then tried to make us feel for her by showing her in old age. There has to be more. For me, there was no THERE there. A lot of technique with not a lot underneath it. I found Davis’ to be the most unforgettable. Also, Davis’ body of work is also at issue here. Just because she doesn’t get the same roles offered to her doesn’t mean she isn’t equipped to take on parts like this. I hope someone gives her one so she can prove it. I much preferred Streep in Julie & Julia, Devil Wears Prada and just about everything she’s ever done. But this part, to me, wasn’t as strong because I don’t think Streep ever connected to who Thatcher was. To me, she had everything down perfectly except the one thing that really drove Thatcher.
it’s really a story of a lonely woman over a weekend suffering from Dementia….I don’t know that it necessarily needed to be about Margaret Thatcher
But yeah, it kinda did. This is Margaret Thatcher, after all, this isn’t one’s grandmother’s story. This is England’s story, Ireland’s story….it is more than just a movie about an old woman losing her mind.
I am 100% Team Sasha on this. And in the first 5 comments the Streep fans showed how absurdly fanatical they are!
Good work Sash!
Honestly, is it really that big of a deal? I have not seen The Help, but I have seen The Iron Lady and it’s a hot mess. Streep has brilliant moments, but she also has ridiculous over-acting moments that are campy and . I don’t think the film will age well at all — is winning a third Oscar right now for a dreary film really that important for her legacy? I would rather see her win again for a great film.
“To me, she had everything down perfectly except the one thing that really drove Thatcher.”
Once again, critics fail to comprehend the point of the movie. The Iron Lady is not about what “drove Thatcher” because, as the director and Meryl have said many a time, it is not a biopic. It is about an old woman reminiscing on her past accomplishments and the price she paid for leadership.
Also, I’m not buying that she didn’t “connect” with Thatcher argument. Did I watch the same movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSXYHqs0KPo
This captured the essence of Thatcher; a highly disciplined woman who sharpened her survival skills to survive in the macho world of politics. She was governed by thought, not emotion so if it is an emotional catharsis you were looking for, then your expectations are unreasonable.
Best performance is a matter of opinion. I don’t know what qualifies as the best best. And unless you are new, you know A LOT of different factors having nothing to do with performance wins all the time (IE. Box office, over due, career).
But Davis and Williams moved me a HELL of a lot more than Streep did. The Iron Lady must be the worst directed film of the year. It was bad and most critics have rightly trashed it. It’s RT score is almost as low as Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close.
The way the Weinstein Company threw Michelle Williams under the bus is a disgrace. SAG voters got Iron Lady but NOT My Week With Marilyn. Marilyn is the only Oscar nominee that I cannot find anywhere online. You think that’s an accident? Weinstein threw Michelle under the bus and for that alone I hope Streep loses.
“It is about an old woman reminiscing on her past accomplishments and the price she paid for leadership. ”
Let’s be honest. And this goes for any actor that signs up for a biopic. It is about being nominated for an award.
I will be happy to see either woman win. I totally agree with you Sasha, regarding what a shame it is that so few black actresses have been recognized, especially in the lead catagories. Whoopie Goldberg losing for The Color Purple will always go down as a tragedy.
I adore Davis and she turns in remarkable work-be it feature films, or television-check out her small role in the cable series, “The United Stages of Tara.” She even made that special.
Seeing her win would be delightful.
Now, that said-I think Streep fans will be a lot more congenial once Ms. Streep is finally given her 2nd Best Actress Award. Every year there is some reason or another that she doesn’t win.
Although your argument regarding the race issue is relevent-I am totally behind it-it falls on deaf ears when every year the case is made about why someone else should win. It just becomes another “reason.”
I think the past few races have been particularly bitter because she deserved the award both times. You can argue until you’re blue in the face-but you will never convince me that Winslet was better in The Reader, than Meryl in Doubt. I adore Winslet and think she has turned in some award winning performances, but that wasn’t the winner. And lets not even get started on Bullock. I mean, that was just one of the biggest mistakes ever made.
But I do recall that both times, many bloggers-and I believe you as well, correct me if I’m wrong-made the case that these women were “deserving” and should win because they were due, at least I recall you did for Winslet.
Now to say when Meryl is way over-due, that there is some other reason we shouldn’t give it to her-I think a lot of fans have just hit the ceiling of patience, no matter how relevant the argument.
I think it’s important to be civil-but I do believe Meryl gave the better performance this year, and I do think she should win. What it took for her to transform into Thatcher mentally and then to play the layers of family & political life-it almost(I say almost) made the film watchable.
At the same time-I won’t cry if Viola wins, but once again I think it will be another year when we pushed someone to the win for another reason then being the best. (Not that I am niave enough to believe that happens.)
Please forgive what I am sure is poor structure, it’s just a stream of thought comment.
Hopefully it can give some insight into why those of us who support Streep get a little passionate and crazy sometimes. Cheers.
It seems that for Meryl Streep that bar is constantly raised higher and higher! I don’t recall Forest Whittaker’s portrayal of Idi Amin attracting critique of a missing element or Jamie Foxx’s Ray Charles or Helen Mirren’s Queen Elizabeth – they were all classed as a tour de force, and it seemed inevitable they would be awarded the Oscar for their portrayal. I recall the commentary about Streep’s Julia not being enough either, and that she would need to match Sophie for another win.
That narrative seems completely unreachable for Streep and undervalues the amazing work she does from film to film, whether it is a famous person or not that she inhabits. What is the missing quality from her Iron Lady? I found more vulnerability and humanity in Streep’s performance than the media has reported on the real Thatcher over the years, but she also showed the tyrannical side and dogged determination. And the driving force? – ambition! To do what can’t be done – or what she was told can’t be done!
I don’t think that Streep will win her 3rd Oscar for this, but not for lack of a fully embraced and submerged performance, but for the narrative that is lopping the tall poppy, and finding another great actor to champion – the wonderful Viola Davis. I won’t be upset if Ms Davis wins, i just wish that Streep could be regarded for what she does, not who she is.
Maybe Rooney Mara is the only real choice here.
A tad bit hypocritical to blame this hoopla on “Streep fans” when there has been strong anti-Streep sentiment on this site from the Davis brigade. Every Streep article takes subtle digs at her including the one published a few hours ago. People are allowed to call Streep a fat cow yet a single nasty comment about Davis warrants eviction from this site. Who is really being vicious????
I have to agree with Sasha’s assertion that Viola’s performance lives and breathes in a way that Meryl’s doesn’t. As amazing as Meryl Streep is, I hope that this role is not the one they choose as her “overdue” prize (though they have a knack for awarding people for their lesser roles, as with Colin Firth’s win last year rather than for his far more impressive and nuanced performance in A Single Man). At any rate, I’m 95% sure the Oscar is going to Viola, but I wouldn’t be surprised or unhappy with either outcome.
(And yet, if I were an Oscar voter, I’d be checking off Rooney Mara’s name, since I don’t think any of the other four contenders inhabited a role quite as fully or convincingly as she did. She ate that performance alive.)
it is not a biopic. It is about an old woman reminiscing on her past accomplishments and the price she paid for leadership.
Yeah you know, nice try, but no. When you’re talking about a controversial historical figure you can’t just back off the controversial stuff THAT much. It doesn’t wash. I think Streep herself couldn’t find her way in to Thatcher and thus they had only the marriage to focus on – and how can anyone talk about Iron Lady and not talk about Jim Broadbent? For godssakes. I won’t feel upset if Streep wins – not at all. An adept performance like that is Oscar worthy. I feel like Davis was bette, more moving and really found the depth in her character where Streep didn’t. Also, I think Thatcher would have been a better character if Streep had been able to unleash the bitch. As good as she is — and she is great, to be sure, someone left out the important part so as not offend anyone.
“On another note. I just don’t get the Octavia Spencer thing. I’ve spoken to many friends of mine who follow the oscars, and we’re all just flabbergasted that she is winning all of these awards. I just don’t get it. She was good and certainly warrented her nomination. But winning. Really?! Not when she is up against so many other talented more richly cultivated performances ::cough, cough:: Janet McTeer”
Are you retarded? Janet McTeer is in a movie about 500 people saw and it got bad reviews. Spencer was seen as an Oscar nominee the second The Help was seen and its grossed 170 million. You yourself say she deserves her nomination but not a win. Well, so far your in the minority on that one. And if you deserve a nomination, like you say Octavia did, a win can almost always be justified.
I do think from an acting standpoint, Streep gave the better performance, but Davis did something wonderful and soulful with her performance as well. It’s really a situation where Davis’ movie is better received, and many actors are truly rooting for her, in my opinion. I say this as somewhat who wants Streep to win a third Oscar as well, however her usual problem is that her main competition tends to be someone who has never won an Oscar and whose movie tends to be better received on a whole.
Andrea
Imma need you to stop calling people “retarded” ok? behave yourself.
“But the soul was missing because I don’t think anyone could find Margaret Thatcher soul very easily.”
I love it when you left-wingers try to rub it in at every occassion without having the slightest idea what are you talking about. It’s really adorable.
I sorry deena’s wig!!
“Also, I think Thatcher would have been a better character if Streep had been able to unleash the bitch.”
If she did that, you would still complain. The performance lacks soul, too one-dimensional, does not show the human side of Thatcher etc etc etc
Streep can never win with her detractors. As someone rightly pointed out, actors like Helen Mirren and Whitaker churn out passable performances as real life figures and everyone is wowed. Meryl does a damn good job but there is always something to criticise, A-L-W-A-Y-S
“But yeah, it kinda did. This is Margaret Thatcher, after all, this isn’t one’s grandmother’s story. This is England’s story, Ireland’s story….it is more than just a movie about an old woman losing her mind.”
As Deena mentions, Streep herself has explained in interviews that The Iron Lady is not a traditional biopic and it isn’t meant to be. I disagree, Sasha, that it has to be a story with the UK as the main character. The fact that it’s about an old woman suffering from dementia who happens to also have been the first female prime minster in the western world is what makes it a compelling story. Shows that people are people. Unfortunately the execution of the film-making is poor. This does not, however negate the performance of Streep. If anything, it makes the film on the whole look worse, because SHE executes a convincing portrayal so well.
In a dream world, Rooney Mara would win because she was fucking EPIC in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
Why do I even try to converse with Deena Jones’ wig? It’s impossible. I give up. But please just point to one other time I have ever complained about Streep’s performance. Ever.
To all Meryl Streep fans:
I have the certainty that there are many things (here and elsewhere) that have made you very angry, and that is thanks to the aggressive campaign for best actress this year, I’m a fan of Streep and people are very rude with her, I´m refer those people which messes personal issues to argue and that is not valid, but that does not excuse the behavior of many of you. Everybody knows about the likes of Miss Sasha Stone (and many people here) and the only thing left is respect the opinion of them. Whether or not they different from ours. Ms. Stone has done things that I don´t understand and many of his views seem to point only leave in a bad posision Mrs. Streep and put Mrs. Davis on an altar, is that valid?, I don´t know, maybe. My point is this: if we do not like the behavior of some people agreasive against Ms. Streep, do not respond in the same way. An easy way to fix this is not going over to this page. Do not say more here, because obviously we disagree on many things. Do not be aggressive, because we will be playing their game. Ms. Streep and Ms. Davis are friends. The one is proud of the other, remember to Streep standing on the SAG? She seemed like a proud mother of her daughter, Mrs. Davis is wonderful, Ms. Streep is a goddess and is beyond any awards, Streep is a living legend, she is what every actress that is proud of her work should be, and that is not a doubt.
PLEASE FRIENDS JUST LEAVE IT FOR PEACE. LET´S GO TO A PLACE WHERE NOBODY ASSAULTING ANYONE AND EVERYONE CAN HAVE AN OPINION.AND IF YOU WANT TO STAY HERE JUST DON´T BE LIKE THAT AGGRESSIVE PEOPLE WHO DON´T RESPECT NOTHING. Let’s not get carried away by irrational people (for example the following sentence: “A vote for Streep is a vote for slavery”) I mean Really?. THAT is not nice or gentle. THAT is not the cinema. THAT is not the passion that we feels for talent as big as Ms. Streep and Ms. Davis.
Respect for the rights of others is peace.
Pd: Miss Stone please stop too. We don´t deserve this from you.
I would be equally ecstatic if either won. My vote would go to Michelle Williams though if I had a ballot. Win-win-win for me.
Rooney Mara should really win. She did a bravura job with a role that really wasn’t written for an Oscar. She gave us something fresh, and she completely transformed herself for the role.
I still haven’t seen Michelle Williams since the film isn’t anywhere. But why her small but loyal fanbase is surprised she isn’t winning, I don’t know. She’s one of the most naturalistic actors of her generation, but a lead actress Oscar for playing Marilyn? Really? It doesn’t seem right at all that she would win for something so gimmicky, not when she doesn’t even look convincing in the role.
If Tilda Swinton or Olivia Colman had been nominated, then I would have to respectfully disagree with you, Sasha, but as it stands, yes, I think Viola Davis was the best of the bunch. As for Streep, she is her usual flawless self. If only the movie had been as flawless.
The funniest thing about the Streep fans is how they act like they are being assaulted and victimized for their beliefs – you know, like Mormons or something. Can you point out anywhere where I’ve said anything bad or mean or offensive about Meryl Streep? Sensing a lot of misplaced rage here.
And Sam A. your comments are enough to get you banned so they are being deleted. So far most of you have been at least civil.
Just last night I was watching Independent Lens (Have You Heard From Johannesburg) — learning details of an episode of history about which I was previously unaware.
You know what’s adorable, Koleś? How casually Reagan and Thatcher branded Nelson Mandela as a “terrorist” (quote) and their timid sickening support of Apartheid. It required concerted global pressure and student uprisings in the US and UK for parliament and congress to overrule the adorable evil being backed and perpetuated by grandma Maggie and grandaddy Ronnie.
I’ve always reviled these two “leaders” for other good reasons, but their repulsive support of Apartheid is something that had slipped past me until last night.
yeah, but callous monsters are so cuddly when they drift into dementia. Aww, but look, she has trouble buying milk! Reagan and Thatcher, fuck them both.
Hey Sasha,
My comment in the Viola post re: Photoshop overload was because I didn’t recognize her. Was that offensive?
She reminds me of Ms Tanzania Universe 07 Flaviana Matata. She was bald during the pageant.
Calling The Iron Lady out for being a non traditional; biopic is like faulting I’m Not There for not being a straight portrait of the most influential popular musician (arguably) in three generations. The criticism that the film is not enough of a biopic is ridiculous, at least it tries to do something with the subgenre instead of just churning out another paint by numbers biography. The only thing wrong with it, really is the direction is incredibly sloppy and a more experienced director should have been hired. Its biggest strength is that it does something most people thought wasn’t possible- it humanizes Thatcher. The script is actually pretty wonderful, its not a perfect film but its certainly better than its reputation suggests. Its also a much better film than My Week With Marilyn, which is reminiscent of a terrible TV movie, and is so slight and ineffectual that it having any admirers at all, actually praising for what is so obviously oscar baiting mediocrity.
Streep’s Thatcher also makes Williams’ Monroe look like a third rate impression.
Just thought I’d ad that I’m Not There is admittadely much more successful and a way better movie than Iron Lady.
If not Streep, I’d be delighted to see Glenn Close win!! Finally saw Albert Nobbs last week and it was a heartbreaking performance. I was in tears in the end.
Calling The Iron Lady out for being a non traditional; biopic is like faulting I’m Not There for not being a straight portrait of the most influential popular musician (arguably) in three generations.
I appreciate the sentiment but no. As a lifelong Dylan fanatic, right up there with Todd Haynes in my knowledge of Dylan’s work and devotion to his music my entire life and every day of my life I can tell you that I’m Not There drove right through the heart and soul of Bob Dylan. It worked both as an artist’s rendering of an artist and as a biopic — the only kind of biopic that could ever have been made about Dylan. It wasn’t slopped together, smoothed over to make it more palatable for liberal leaning Academy voters. It wasn’t fake-pretend that this woman wasn’t a monster to many. It told the truth about Dylan. And when I saw it I felt it had been made just for me. So you’re really barking up the wrong tree there to pick one of my all time favorite films about my all time favorite songwriter.
P.s. Last King of Scotland, The Queen – these films told a truth. They took a side and didn’t dodge the notion that they were dealing controversial figures. The Iron Lady did none such thing. That’s an example of what I’m talking about. You could never make a movie about Richard Nixon and have it just be about him missing his dead wife and getting old. Why would you ever want to do that?
@Ryan “Reagan and Thatcher, fuck them both.” I second that motion! Rose tinted glasses and ignorance hide, for many, the damage these two villains reeked on the world.
I don’t think The Help is the best written screenplay ever, but it is feckin’ Shakespeare compared the the tripe served up in The Iron Lady.
I initially was going Viola, then I saw the Iron Lady…which I didn’t hate as much as some
I’m of the same mind, filmboymichael, and appreciated the approach that Iron Lady took. That said, it’s hard to ignore the fact that the film didn’t delve at all into some of the more controversial aspects of the Thatcher character.
Both Streep and Davis turned in Oscarworthy performances. I’d be a bit giddy were Streep to win, but I don’t think she will. Swinton would’ve been my choice.
Do you seriously belive Viola Davis is better than Rooney Mara Sasha?? In fairness, I do credit Davis for single-handedly dragging her crappy film into the Oscar race with a touching & skillful performance (which is certainly better than Streep’s souless paper cutout), but Mara was on a whole other level. I thought you out of all people would think that?
“yeah, but callous monsters are so cuddly when they drift into dementia. Aww, but look, she has trouble buying milk! Reagan and Thatcher, fuck them both.”
That a boy, Ryan. Let it out. Like I said, it’s adorable:). Go watch some more revisionary documentaries about Thatcher. Maybe, with luck you’ll find some on the cold war, british economy and some other bullshit that obviously do not interest a smart guy like you. Oh and one more thing – I love your use of the bold font. That’s really making the text more important.
^^^^ With all due respect Ryan, this is why I haven’t been to this site in the past week, because I was constantly aggravated by the blatant hostility, bitter sarcasm, and wrongful twisting of words from other members. Nothing about Koles’ comments suggested any sort of sympathy for Margaret Thatcher or any kind of “adorable” affection towards her, yet you spew this admittedly very tragic yet random bit of information to bring someone down and explain how much you hate Maggie Thatcher. Good. I’m not a fan of hers either, to put it nicely. But like others have said previously, Phyllida Lloyd and Meryl Streep have said religiously that this is not meant to be a typical political biopic–and yes, as many problems as I had with the film (especially with Broadbent’s character and storyline), I do think it was an interesting artistic choice to focus on an old woman’s bout with dementia who happened to be the first female leader in the Western world. And I think it’s a testament to Streep’s brilliance as an actor (and something you obviously don’t agree or don’t really care to see, based on your revilement of Thatcher) that you see into the woman’s deep convictions, determination to overcome prejudices and gender gaps, insecurities about family and the sacrifices she makes as a mother, and in the end her unwavering arrogance that eventually led to her ostracism from her own party…so yes, I believe you DO see a soul in there–maybe one you don’t approve of or one you don’t sympathize with or have any interest in seeing, but a soul nevertheless. The film oftentimes stumbles, but I think it’s much more intriguing and risky than an easy, obvious smear campaign.
And why is it that after a week there is three posts about Meryl Streep and Viola Davis? And why are the comments sections closed? I don’t particularly like what this site has come to, but like you will tell me, it’s your site and you can do what you want. I just don’t like it that people who voice a sound, intelligent, and debatable opinion are then verbally beaten down by the founders of this site and are oftentimes deleted & discarded. You don’t see that behavior on Incontention or FilmExperience and I think the community is more level-minded and fair about discussion.
I haven’t seen The Iron Lady yet, but if Viola Davis wins her first Oscar for The Help, it will be an embarrassment and an outrage. She is an extraordinary actress who deserves more than being relegated to playing the “magical negro” in two hours of white-savior dreck. For me, her performance is good but not great enough to transcend the awfulness of the material — I thought her seven minutes of screen time in Doubt were more impressive and moving than every second of The Help.
“Weinstein threw Michelle under the bus and for that alone I hope Streep loses.”
And it’s Streep’s fault because???
I don’t understand why people who comment like this deny Streep for a 3rd Oscar just because “Weinstien threw Williams under the bus”???
@Sato
I learned a lot more over here. Her potential win will also be questioned because of the fact that Harvey Weinstein is backing her and that she … how to say it … is campaigning. She actually is. The nerve of that woman. How dare she?
I also think that the performance in the Iron Lady is much more deserving than the one in The Help, independently of the overdue status of any individual or social group. But then again, who cares about who wins? In a couple of months, people will have forgotten and things will be seen as what they are.
I don’t give a shit about Best Actress but I gotta say I am pulling for Chastain to beat Spencer. Spencer was good but Chastain blew her out of the water.
I am a fan of Meryl Streep’s acting and have been for a long time. She doesn’t always get it right ( A Cry in the Dark performance was pretty bad) and The Iron Lady was an impersonation rather than a complete performance. Something I would expect from a comedy skit.
I prefer her more naturalistic performances and always have…
The movie however was really depressing for me. I cannot put it into the ‘right’ words. I will never see it again and do not want to talk about it with my friends. It’s a turd sandwhich.
Was Meryl’s performance the best of the year? No
Was Viola’s performance the best of the year? No
Will I watch The Help again? Probably.
For pure acting ability this year, well, those performances aren’t nominated. Out of those who are Rooney would be my choice -for several reasons, but mostly the nuances in her speech and expressions. These things are written down of course but it takes a gifted actor to bring out so much in the words ” hey hey”
So far I see no hateful comments from Streep fans.
Sasha, if you could post some of them here (since it was free speech in this thread) in censored versions? As a good writer, you know how to edit them to almost unrecognisable, yet remaining the tone.
I have to have proof – after this being mentioned countless times over the most recent months. I am a fan of Ms. Streep, and I feel like I’m being attacked for something… and I don’t know for what. It’s like ‘Halloween’ where I can see the kitchen knife without Michael Myers holding it.
Aaron, with all due respect back at you, Koles comment was a direct and harsh attack on Sasha and what Koles explicitly claims is clueless random Thatcher-bashing from liberals who don’t know what we’re talking about.
Do you not see the sneer about how he thinks we don’t understand what Thatcher was about? Us adorably simplistic liberals.
I’m no expert on the 80s global political climate, but my gut instinct and everything I know about the Thatcher-Reagan era and their oh-so-compassionate soulful handling of everything from coal miners to AIDS is repugnant to me.
Koles needs evidence for why some “liberals” find it hard to love Thatcher? All I did was provide some ugly facts that are fresh in my head and close to the surface because I literally only learned this stuff last night.
Nowhere do I attack Koles.
He’s the one who first chose to snidely call Sasha “adorable ” for what he feels is her lack of grasp of political complexity.
I toss the word back in his lap by describing just how adorable Thatcher could be. Historical fact and Thatcher’s own grotesque quotes.
I tell you what — I’m tired of everybody else coming to spew whatever nonsense agenda they’ve got to promote on Sasha’s site — and yet let me or Sasha dare to express our strong feelings and we get scolded on a daily basis by readers whose wittle feelings are so fragile .
Tero – I’ve followed these discussions and I seriously doubt you’re being attached.
Sasha engages commenters by displaying her own opinion, so getting huffy when her views run contrary to yours is rather pointless. This site’s tagline isn’t “The trick is being objective.”
@Anna: How is Davis “The Magical Negro?” She simply plays a compassionate woman who decides to attempt to improve her state by participating in a project with a white woman and black friends. It’s a collaborative achievement the characters undertake, one marked by honesty and action, not some half-assed folksy wisdom The Help is not a GREAT movie but it handles its setting quite well.
@Ryan Adams: Yeah, Reagan’s become this weird Saint that even the left seems to lionize. Then again, politicians keep pointing to the glory of the founding fathers, forgetting so conveniently that Jefferson and Washington owned slaves.
Aaron, unless you’re talking to Sasha, stop saying AwardsDaily is “your site.” It’s Sasha’s site.
I’m not a “founder” either. I’m an interloper adopted into the fold, and given a password as a deputy badge. I’m a lucky honorary appointee. I don’t even get to carry a taser or pepperspray.
I would totally love to stop acting like there aren’t 3 other actresses nominated. Seriously sick and tired of the Meryl/Viola bullshit. I look forward to the day it is no longer perpetuated on this website and we discuss everyone else in the race.
Rooney Mara turned in the best performance of all who are nominated but she’s ignored b/c talking about her apparently doesn’t start a catfight and inspire posts solely meant for a comment free-for-all.
Pink Floyd said it best about Thatcher…
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha charade you are.
You ****** up old hag, ha ha charade you are.
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass.
You’re nearly a good laugh,
Almost worth a quick grin.
You like the feel of steel,
You’re hot stuff with a hatpin,
And good fun with a hand gun.
You’re nearly a laugh,
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry
Aaron, please speak to Koles about his “blatant hostility and bitter sarcasm”. Thanks. I’ll politely stand aside, like a good boy, so you’ll hopefully not scamper off for another week if I talk back.
@Mattoc: YES! Animals rules and “Pigs” was my first exposure to Thatcher, who doesn’t generate much discussion stateside. Love it.
@Mel: I’m absolutely with you on Roooneeey and have been beating her drum for weeks, as has Ryan, but she just isn’t really a contender. It’s Davis versus Streep and any remarks on Mara would have to involve her performance, not her chances.
If you’re so inclined, here’s a write-up I did on the actresses, including Rooney:
http://www.jessecrall.com/2012/01/2011-in-film-best-actress.html
I’m just saying, we got a post on all the actors today. Even though most people think Bichir has no chance, it didn’t leave him out.
Just curious, was Brody considered a contender the year he won?
Just want to add that Meryl looks absolutely stunning for her age in the top picture. That is all.
I never comment, just read but this is a “media war” started by the journalists and this article is writed just to keep the fire burning.
“Koles comment was a direct and harsh attack on Sasha and what Koles explicitly claims is clueless random Thatcher-bashing from liberals who don’t know what we’re talking about.”
Attack? Jesus Christ, I just said it amuses me that the author without any reason for doing so, implies that Margaret Thatcher didn’t have a soul. I’m amused because that’s usually the argument liberals use to bash her, but are very likely to omit the positive impact of her being the Prime Minister. I understand perfectly that if you’re a liberal and have liberal views, you probably don’t like Thatcher and what she did, but calling her soulless – that’s a different thing. Probably the same as calling her a “callous monster” and saying “fuck her”. That’s what amuses me, Ryan. I’m sorry, but it does and will continue to do so. Prejudice based on only the part of the truth that we find useful has always been very entertaining for me. It’s probably as funny as people bashing Polanski’s movies for the fact that he banged a minor.
“Do you not see the sneer about how he thinks we don’t understand what Thatcher was about?”
I don’t know. Do you?
@Koles – you were being condescending in my opinion.
To quote Walter Sobchak if I may – ” You have no frame of reference here…”
Loved what you said about Rooney Mara’s Lisbeth in your blog Jesse.
The main problem is that you think that Davis SHOULD win because she’s black. I haven’t seen Close’s and Streep’s performances yet – and for now I agree that Davis deserves her award more than Williams and Mara – but it makes me irritated when I here that people should win because of their race – and not the quality of their acting. I’m gay but I don’t think that Plummer SHOULD win because he played gay. Actually: I liked Nolte’s performance more and I haven’t seen von Sydow in ELIC yet – but I would be happy if he wins – or if Branagh wins (simply because he is always tremendous and he was great as Olivier in MY WEEK WITH MARILYN) – because they all deserve it!
@Mel: Thanks for the read and the compliment!
@Mattoc
“you were being condescending in my opinion.”
To quote Jeffrey Lebowski – “Yeah, well, that’s like your opinion, man.”
I think that Davis is a favourite to win and it can change only if Streep wins BAFTA (what is not so obvious).
@koles – I too, once dabbled in condescendation, not in Nam of course…
@Mattoc – I did not know that. Well, it’s all water under the bridge.
…That’s what amuses me, Ryan. I’m sorry, but it does and will continue to do so.
Same way it amuses me when quoting a politician in her own arrogant incendiary words is thought to be a tactic of “revisionary documentaries.”
…are very likely to omit the positive impact of her being the Prime Minister.
Don’t care. yay, she privatized UK steel and railways (decimated infrastructure! awesome.) Do not care. Matters more to me that she enabled the Apartheid goon squads to inflict murder and untold suffering on thousands of innocent people because she dare not interfere with conservative greed.
@Tero Heikkinen: 100% agree! I couldn´t describe it better!
I honestly think it’s more a case of the anti-Meryl bloggers being the most vitriolic against her possible win and trots out the old “acting not being” argument that has long been negated by a majority of critics, not to mention by an unmatched record of awards and nominations. Perversely, she is even criticized for appearing in low calibre films as if it were her choice. As she has said time and again, it is primarily the role that interests her. Outside of The Queen and maybe The Hours before that, what “great” film has there been for an actress her age and stature? Her fans are quick to support her but can we blame them? There are more than enough justifiable reasons to admire Meryl. And if they feel frustrated that Sandra beat her the last time, well, are they entirely out of their minds to feel so in that instance? Especially after so many years a bridesmaid? Anyway, I understand the passion of Meryl’s fans and I don’t think they are, for the most part, “damn near vicious” in support of “poor Meryl Streep” who is, yet again, in the Oscar race.
Meryl Streep showcased a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide array of emotions in The Iron Lady. Like a malleable metal (adding more aptness to the title) she took on the perfect form in all the varied situations Thatcher got into. Bottomline: The Iron Lady demanded a lot from Meryl and she delivered big time!
No offense…but I sort of blame Meryl fans for this whole feud. When Davis won the SAG…something disturbing happened. I started reading comments about how Davis only won because she’s black and about white guilt and how she’s supporting (which is bs). You guys focused much more on the politics than Meryl’s performance. Did she give a good performance? Who knows?…because you guys are so preoccupied with Viola winning than really standing up for Meryl and her performance. I’m not saying Davis fans haven’t used race in their arguments, but thinking didn’t get to where they are until Davis started winning. This is gonna be last comment concerning Davis/Streep. At this point, I don’t even care anymore.
In the beginning of this race, I would have been ecstatic to have seen Streep win. She’s MY favorite actress. Viola Davis is also one of my favorites. I thought this would be a fun race between two great friends who happily support each other. But, honestly, I think Meryl fans have gone nuts. Those fans focused more on Viola’s race than the Davis fans. Yeah, we mention that only one black actress has won Lead Actress. What’s your point? It’s a common fact. You can’t deny it. But that piece of trivia has NOTHING to do with our love for Davis and her performance. Meryl fans turned it into something more than it should’ve been. And I think the comments here after Davis won the SAG were disgusting, and 90% was coming from Meryl fans.
I know this is coming off as harsh, but I thought I’d take the opportunity because this a free for all. I just wanted to get it out there. I still love this site and I visit it everyday, but I’m not going to kill myself over the leading actress category anymore.
Maybe Rooney Mara should win! Or maybe voters can write in Tilda Swinton.
sorry if my comment is confusing…just read between the lines
I note with interest the comments re how few African Americans are nominated for Academy Awards. Why should race have anything to do with a nomination, if they are good enough they will be nominated. A nomination should never be a token gesture to placate a minority group in society.
I agree “The Iron Lady” is not an award winning film but it is VERY good. I also believe a reasonable knowledge of the historical events connected with Margret Thatchers career and her rise to power will assist in having a greater understanding of the film. For example if a film was made re the life of Abraham Lincoln I would not appreciate it as much as I should because I don’t know that much about his life a career.
Although I have the greatest admiration for Meryl Streep and her immense unparelled talent, I am not totally “one eyed”, regardless I believe it is an absolute FARCE she is continually passed over year after year for another award
Dear Sasha and editors of Awardsdaily,
I have read your blog regularly and appreciate your many of your thoughts and contributions to this site. Thank you so much.
However, there’s one thing that I feel deeply uncomfortable about your writing recently, which is about ‘race issue’ that you, directly and indirectly, have integrated in your writings, especially when it comes to Meryl vs Viola.
Why do you keep campaigning about race issue?
I am fine whether you think whose performance is good or bad because it is definitely a freedom of speech that all of us have the right to deliver different or contrast opinions. But it should not come up with the race issue to strenghten your thoughts.
You should have not brought up the race issue to weign your opinion and use it as an instrument to attack your favorite actress’s rival.
Judgment of awards should be given to the one who performs best and with other reasonable, decisive factors, not races.
We should focus on those factors. And the Black or White issue should be avoided since it can be considered as racist and discrimination, which should NOT happen anywhere the world, especially here, where it deals with many actors and actresses and readers from a large variety of races.
But the race issue has been found all over your writings regarding the Best Actress, and even the article that has nothing directly to do with the Oscars.
Just today I feel deeply sorry and disappointed with the recent deleted article about the praises of the three successful women in 60, which we all should have just enjoyed the story of their works and acheivments, no matter who they are. But you, however, obviously pointed out that three of them are ‘WHITE” ( I know it is indeed it may because one of them are Meryl and if three of them are other white wowen you would have not expressed like that).
So please stop race issue.
Thank you and best regards.
Your reader.
IMO
Best performance of the year – TILDA SWINTON
Best performance of the nominated – Meryl Streep
* if Viola wins i will be just as happy because she was incredible in The Help and it would open so many doors for not only her but for all the other minorities to have a chance aswell.
I hope Viola wins. I can’t imagine having to read Sasha’s 10000 page post on Febuary 26th about the racist Weinstein conspiracy fueled by rabid Streep internet fans that stole her mega consensual Oscar.
BAFTA should be interesting.
@Ryan
“Same way it amuses me when quoting a politician in her own arrogant incendiary words is thought to be a tactic of “revisionary documentaries.”
Let’s get things straight. She called The African National Congress “a typical terrorist organization”. The last thing I want to do is to defend Apartheid and the horrible things they did in South Africa, but back then The ANC was not a political party but an organization responsible for numerous bomb attacks that killed some people. I’m not saying what was right and what was wrong, but I leave it to your judgment if Thatcher’s words might have been apropriate.
“Don’t care. yay, she privatized UK steel and railways (decimated infrastructure! awesome.) Do not care. Matters more to me that she enabled the Apartheid goon squads to inflict murder and untold suffering on thousands of innocent people because she dare not interfere with conservative greed.”
Like I said. Go ahead – chose the facts that are convenient for your argument and forget about the rest of them or simply make fun of them. I still find that kind of attitude adorable (forgive me if that’s still condescending). I guess I could tell you that Thatcher is responsible for a little bit more than privatising UK steel and railways, but since you don’t care I guess I have no business talking to you. You can go back to your “tralala, not listening, tralala” act.
Three comments.
One: This is a far more interesting race than Streep vs Bullock, because in this case Davis clearly would be a deserving winner (as would Streep) & also because Streep has been championing Viola Davis for so long.
Two: It’s really super exciting to have an unpredictable race between two worthy candidates. It doesn’t happen every day.
Three: I still think Streep takes it. She IS overdue. It is a very high profile & “Oscar-y” (whatever that means) role. & although Davis has the SAG Win, at the SAG, Streep is a recent winner. At the Oscars she is way overdue & that changes the game.
(That being said, I’d be thrilled if Davis won – she has more to gain from it than Streep & it is unfortunately exponentially more likely that Streep will get another viable shot soon than Davis, although I know that can be dangerous & unfair logic…)
Over & out.
god, you’d think the world was ending or something. you want to talk about overdue? how about Glenn Close? she’s on nomination number 6–and she doesn’t have any oscars yet! And to Your Reader: if race is a legitimate issue to discuss, then it will be discussed, whether by Sasha, Ryan, or somebody in a forum. In this case, race is relevant, but not because of Davis per se, but because of the film she was in. If she had played a different role in a different film–for example, Lady MacBeth, or even a biopic about someone such as Condoleeza Rice, then we might not be having this conversation at all. But she appeared in a film called The Help about black maids in the 60s that was written and directed from a white person’s perspective, so race is going to come up whether you like it or not. Add to that the fact that many people thought Halle Berry didn’t deserve her win (though I’m not one of them), and the discussion becomes even more heated. So don’t whine so much about race being discussed; film is an artform, art reflects society, social issues are a part of living in society, and race and racism are social issues–ergo its emergence as a topic of discussion on this site. We could just as easily be talking about sexism in film if Davis wasn’t in the equation. If you don’t want to be subjected to discussions about identity politics, then don’t read the forum posts, click on a different blog entry, or avoid the site altogether.
and Koles, you came across as condescending to me, as well. but what do I know? I’m just an “adorable” Canadian socialist who thinks that conservatives are precious.
Blue: “I would have been ecstatic to have seen Streep win. She’s MY favorite actress.”
The rest of the comment? Read it yourself (even between the lines). Yes, this is the first vicious post from a Streep fan I can see. And Blue was not even on her side.
And I wouldn’t even call that vicious, but it’s the harshest I have read so far. Blue admitted it.
@alan of montreal
“and Koles, you across as condescending to me, as well. but what do I know? I’m just an “adorable” Canadian socialist who thinks that conservatives are precious.”
I’m sorry that I did. Believe me, I’ve got nothing against you personally. I’m not going explain why a certain way of stating one’s arguments is amusing to me and I’ll try to restrain myself from codescending in the future.
This good cop, bad cop routine of Sasha and Ryan gets boring after the first 100 times they use it. YAWN.
Streep easily gave the best performance of the year, in any category. It’s her time again, so Streep for the win.
The Iron Lady was first made by a British team where its primary audience is Her Majesty’s subjects. The Weinstein Company only bought it later bought at Cannes.
In Blighty, her domestic policies are so well known and debated, and everyone has an opinion on her domestic politics. Already 3 biopics (TV version) and full length documentaries, fleshed out the full spectrum of her politics. In Britain, I find the political themes now ad nauseum and repetitive, and so polarizing even between friends who try to avoid debating about Thatcher for loss of friendships!
The Iron Lady explores Thatcher themes which haven’t been covered as much in previous British film treatments:
1. OLD AGE, her present decline–many Brits wonder how she is now. Also, age as a subject is more pertinent to UK population, much older than most societies. Care of the elderly, their decline, is the responsibility of the state which pays for it fully. Medical is free. People debate about old age, decline, it is a national, economic issue.
2. CLASS. Much of The Iron Lady, through characterization, reeks of class warfare. People’s mannerisms, vocal inflections, dress, values, the way they regard one another, speak of the status differences and class cleavage in British society. Studying at Oxford in the 1980s, I remember all my friends harping constantly about Thatcher’s pedigree, her lower-middle-class values were disparaged, mocked, the theme of jokes, by students who were mostly middle class, by students who if lower-middle class would modulate their accents and opinions to be more acceptably upper-middle. And to the upper class there, the lower-middle class was vermin. Better to be working class (traditionally loyal and patriotic).
3. The feminist angle. Britain has a great and long tradition of feminist memoir culture, especially Virago Press, big celebrities from the Bloomsbury group. Writers use fiction, impressionistic memory to explore the English woman’s world view. The film The Iron Lady is regarded also as a film version that’s part of the English feminist oeuvre. The 3 key women involved in the film, their feminist ideas have been discussed in many literary circles.
@ Koleś
Saying Streep should lose because she didn’t gave the best performance among the nominees is understandable…
But to say that she should lose because I’m a big fan of Williams and I hated how her awards campaign by the Weinstein is turning out is just absurd… So immature IMO…
Shameless plugging:
https://www.facebook.com/fycmerylstreep
Woohoo!
As well as by just basing it in online uploads at the very least…
Sato, I agree. I think Streep shouldn’t win because she isn’t the best among the nominees. But there were a lot of arguments why she shouldn’t win that made no sense. Only one of them was the fact that Weinstein “dumped” Williams, so Meryl shouldn’t win. Others were that Weinstein is campaigning for her and that “she is everywhere”. If you ask me the best performance of the five women nominated came from Rooney Mara, and I would be thrilled if she would win. I know that can’t happen, but hell, I can dream, can I
.
@Ryan Adams
Look, I grew up during the Reagan/Thatcher years. I loathe their politics and their policies. As a gay man whose partner died from AIDS as a result of Reagan policies, I think it’s a canard to mix dreadful politics into the discussion because you happen to not like Thatcher. Streep’s performance was like no other. Streep is head and shoulders above the field of nominees. To drag your opinions of Reagan/Thatcher into the discussion of Best Actress race is disingenuous at best. I hated Reagan (and Thatcher) for 8 long years. We should be judging the performance of Streep’s Thatcher, not Thatcher’s politics. Whatever you may think about Thatcher, you cannot deny the fact that Streep gave a towering performance, essentially playing two characters as LEAD for an entire two hour film. Davis was a supporting character in a good ensemble piece. Streep should win for sheer force. Her performance is astounding.
My issue isn’t with Davis at all but with Sasha who has used the race card over and over again as to why Davis should win. Yes it isn’t her only reason but it is thrown in our face in every post. Race should have nothing to do with Davis winning, just as it should have nothing to do with Davis losing. Sasha makes it sound like a vote for anyone else is a vote slavery. I love that when Sasha makes a thread where she complains about the whiteness of 60 mins and people call her out she says we are crazy Streep fans and deletes the comments ans deletes her commentary about 60 mins. She calls them crazy Streep fans because the comments in the previous thread referenced Streep, well they all referenced Streep because it was a Streep thread and it was the thread were people just got tired of Sasha’s crap. If it had been a Michele Williams thread the comments would have referenced Williams. It really was that simple but of course Sasha didn’t ge that. best actress is always the race where things get heated but Sasha has made this year unbearable. I’m glad Sasha likes Davis performance, it was a good performance, and I have no problem Sasha backing an actress that she thinks should win, but the way she has gone about it this year has really been gross. Stop make it about race IN EVERY POST and don’t be a baby when people call you out on it. This isn’t about the actress but about Sasha.
Btw yes I’m well aware I don’t have to visit this site, but other than Sasha’s annoying race comments I really do like the site I mostly just try and avoid the best actress posts cause I know what will be in there. however this post and the last one were unavoidable.
I think those suggesting that Streep was ‘overacting’ rather miss the point. Margaret Thatcher was that over the top. THAT melodramatic and THAT sanctamonious. Grnted the film itself make very little sense a sort of “Maggie’s Greatest Hits’ byy way of flashbacks, but it’s a brilliant barnstorming performance.
The debate of ‘Davis’ and ‘Streep’ reminds me how insane the discussion as to who is “best” in acting is. They are both brilliant in different ways. I like the unshowy nature of Viola’s performance, even though her film was decidely average. it reminds me of the year that Julie Christie and Marion Cotillard were vying for Best Actress. Both deserved to win. The only shame was that only once person did win. So whoever wins good luck to them. Both are deserving.
My opinion: after seeing all the noms it’s crystal clear to me who gave the best leading performance (and yes, is Streep, she is light years away of the rest).
I dont think however that Davis is a hassle for Streep in her mission to get her 3rd, the only problem is Meryl Streep herself (her reputation, her special talent, HER ACCOLADES…). I don’t think she is going to win… and not beacuse Davis has been better, she is not goin to win first because her peers always expect something brilliant form her (so, if she does something brilliant it’s not going to be a surprise for anyone) and second because the academy seldom give an actor 3 oscars. It doesn’t matter if she deserves it or not, the voters may be reluctant to giver her a 3rd oscar BUT the fact tha this woman has surpassed the 60 years old barrier and as been losing uninterrupted for 30 years, the fact of her being the acting figure with more moninations in oscar history and having the same amount of oscars as Sally Filed or Hilary Swank are very important point in her favour.
On another note: is it my impression or has this website been positioned in a partisan pro-Davis manner even before Streep’s (or any other actresses) performance were released?
We are all completely invested in the Streep-Davis battle, but aren’t we forgetting something ? And by something, I mean someone! A few clues :
1. she won the most critics group Best Actress awards this season (10)
2. she received all 4 big nominations (SAG-BAFTA-BFCA-HFPA),won a Golden Globe and is the most viable threat to upset Streep at the BAFTAs…and just to be clear, if she pulls that off, she will suddenly have an excellent last-minute shot at winning…Cotillard-style
3. she ALSO has the Weinstein-machine in her corner
4. she has the babe-factor, something we should NOT underestimate
5. she is ALSO considered overdue, this is her third nomination, second in a row
6. based on critics’ scores, she is in a better film than Streep AND Davis
7. she is playing an AMERICAN CINEMATIC ICON…shouldn’t that hit closer to home than a British politician and a 60s era maid ?
8. she is playing an icon who NEVER even received a nomination from the Academy…it could be their way of ‘awarding’ her
9. the 50th anniversary of Marilyn Monroe’s death is this year (August 5)
10. if you look back at the Best Actress winners of the last 15 years or so, you will realize that – as weird as it sounds – she is around the perfect age to win an Oscar
Bottom line : It will be Viola Davis…and if not her, Meryl Streep…BUT we should definitely NOT underestimate Michelle Williams…especially if BAFTA-voters still hate Thatcher enough to snub Meryl’s tour-de-force performance, and award Williams instead…a Golden Globe (comedy) and a BAFTA go a long way…just ask Marion Cotillard!
There is no Meryl vs. Viola.
Why? Because Meryl herself wants Viola to win. Period.
She paved the way for Viola to win the SAG three years ago with her own acceptance speech for “Doubt”.
She called out: “…. the giganticly gifted Viola Davis. My GOD somebody give her a movie!!!”
So she got her wish.
Honestly, was it a bad year for Meryl? Awardswise? She did NOT go home empty-handed. Look what all she’s got! And that for a Phyllida Lloyd movie! But Streepers let’s be real…. she won’t wn a third Oscar for that.
If that’s all there is, I’m happy. She’s won the damn Drama Globe finally after 29 years and now she’ll get the honory Golden Bear in Berlin the next days. Maybe the BAFTA…. I think it’s her best chance in ages to finally win that again.
But Davis would be the first black actress winning in Lead there.
I’m proud of you, Meryl and that you support Davis so obviously. What a classy lady.
If being nominated 13 (that’s right) times since your last win is what you call “losing uninterrupted for 30 years”, then I don’t mind losing at all
. She said it before and I guess it’s true – Awards mean nothing to her. She doeasn’t need the third to establish something. Everyone knows she is worthy of three, four, five and more oscars. “The Iron Lady” is not the best movie to give her the third one for. If you really must do it, I say wait a little. Meryl will provide, that I can be sure of.
As for the fact that she has the same amount of oscars as Sally Field or Hilary Swank. Well, let me put it this way. You see a lot of Field and Swank on the big screen doing quality work these days? I don’t think so. Since Meryl’s last win, 13 of her performances have been named one of the top 5 in their respectful years, because that’s what an oscar nomination is. The woman does not need a third oscar and something tells me she doesn’t even wan’t it. Who knows, maybe Davis’ll benefit from that. I can imagine some oscar voters willing to go for Streep, but knowing she and Davis are dear friends and Streep wants Davis to win, will vote for Davis out of respect for Streep.
Why is it that when Forrest Whitaker won for playing “Idi Amin” he was called Brilliant? But when Meryl plays Thatcher, she’s called “fat cow”?!? I don’t get it! I thought it was who gave the BEST Performance, not who was the most likable character…
I purely want Meryl to win because the last time she won I was a newborn baby so I have never experienced my favourite actress winning an Academy Award; am SICK of the comments from casual cinema-goers in my life saying “but she always wins” when they have no clue; I think Viola Davis was great but it was a Supporting performance in my opinion.
Meryl Streep has besides the Weinstein Co. also the Golden Globe! And only because Viola Davis did win the Sag Award doesn´t mean she automatically wins the Oscar! We will see what will happen! But I think, as I said before, Meryl Streep has her “Oscar-Year”, her “momentum”.
I´m tired of this discussion! Especially the fact that Streep-Fans are called crazy or aggressiv! Most of the Streep-Fans are normal people like the Viola Davis-Fans! Are there no crazy Viola Davis-Fans? Always mentioning that there are deleted comments from “Streep-Fans” means that there are no crazy comments from Viola Davis-Fans????
Meryl should have won for A Cry in the Dark, BoMC or in Supporting for Adaptation. Not only that performance was simply amazing, the whole movie was PERFECT. But of course it did not get a BP nod… *sigh*
Although I understand why CZJ has won that year-the role was the most showy and hard to resist.
But thankfully Meryl was able to win the Globe because they’d moved CZJ in Lead (C/M).
@Denni
The answer is very simple. Idi Amin is not a controverial character in terms that you can argue if what he did was right or wrong. He was a mass murderer simple as that. No moral relativity or political view can alter the fact that he was a 100% evil man. Thatcher on the other hand is adored by some and hated by some – there is no consensus here and the issue is still alive. You might raise the argument that Elisabeth II is also adored and hated. True, but I don’t see the her as a controversial character. As a public person she does not generate many emotions among the crowds. Thatcher did and still does. I don’t know if that’s the case, but that’s an explanation that popped into my head.
I forgot to mention that I genuinely think Meryl has the best performance of the year (in a film I didn’t actually like) and is constantly overlooked for the award purely because a) She’s generally great in everything and very reliable so people are never bowled over with surprise at an awards-worthy performance. b) She’s not starved of great roles and is always expected to be nominated again – by the time she’s in her late-60′s that might not be the case (but same can be said for Oscarless Glen Close et al).
Sasha,
I love your site, read it most every day. But I take issue with the following quote.
“Our bias is for Davis, as we’ve made clear. This, because her performance is truly the more moving and powerful of the five, in my own opinion. And also because of the rarity of any black actress being up for the award at all. It’s 2012 and we have a black President and yet you would never know it by the landscape of television or mainstream Hollywood movies.”
If you think Davis’s performance is the most deserving then why can you not just leave it at that? The second part of the quote leads one to think you want Davis to win simply because she is a black actress. I have noticed that sentiment in several of your posts before. I understand that politics plays into the race, but championing someone for a win just because of their skin color seems a little racist.
What do I think of the Best Actress race, so far? The tug ‘o war between the Davis and Streep camps is amusing, mean, but generally unenlightening. It’s as though there are only two nominees, and while I agree that probably one of the two will emerge the winner, but that doesn’t change the fact that I think the best performance this year, when you remove all the extraneous crap and focus on the acting, only, came from Rooney Mara. period. That’s not to be, but what else is new – thhe best seldom win, or in the case of best actor this year, aren’t even nominated.
The turn-offs are generally associated with words like “overdue for third oscar”, “race card”, “white guilt”, “supporting vs lead”, yah-di-yah-di-yah. It has become the most political of the categories this year and the eventual winner will have won for reasons beyond that of their performance, factors that have no business in the Oscar race; so battle on – I’ve already shut down on this category. I now know where my pee-breaks are on Oscar night – Documentary Short, Best Song and Best Actress.
“.it is more than just a movie about an old woman losing her mind.”
I get that, but to me that’s all it really was….probably because it did exactly what you said – it backed away from the political side…..
Sacha, i born in Brasil, live in Portugal and i really love your site since i discover, but you really think all the Streep fans are crazys and agressives? I hope not…
I am a Streep fan and i always write here with all respect for you and for the others readers…
And i am not considers crazy at all kkkk
I think there are a lot of other things in the world to worry about but I would like to note that one shouldn’t support an actor based on colour. I think Viola Davis did a wonderful job in The Help, as did Meryl Streep in The Iron Lady. If it were me, Streep would win every award she’s nominated for, but I’m biased. I don’t know what “best” means, but I think Streep out performs her competition consistently, and that alone is worthy of praise. However, I believe that it’s going to be Glenn Close who is victorious come Oscar night. Just wait and see.
I forgot to mention that Viola Davis has the edge because of the Sag Award, but Streep has the edge because of the Golden Globe and Weinstein!
Yes, this is the first vicious post from a Streep fan I can see.
Tero, 4 of the most vicious comments never made it online at all because the people who wrote them were already tagged for moderation because of past extreme behavior. Most of their comments are fine and we click a button to release 95% of moderated comments. The 5% you guys never see are some nasty work indeed. Somebody nearly got banned altogether last night.
House Rules around here. We don’t like to see readers personally insult other readers. Likewise, we don’t have much patience for personal attacks on us that involve name-calling or trigger words intended to be hurtful. Those comments either get deleted within minutes (if we see them) or else they never see the light of day (more likely, because we know who the half dozen worst offenders are — and there are filters to automatically deal with them.)
And I wouldn’t even call that vicious, but it’s the harshest I have read so far. Blue admitted it.
There’s nothing wrong with Blue’s comment. I wrote a reply to reassure him that he was expressing himself in fair terms, had nothing to be worried about. But I deleted that reassurance because it’s not my job to award gold stars.
Thanks, Ryan
I always find it so disheartening and annoying when I go to sites that are littered with such hate.
First of all, Davis’ performance was not a lead! I think Spencer got equal if not more screen time and Emma Stone was the lead actress clearly. But, that aside, the film was cringe-worthy. This is not Oscar worthy stuff.
Streep aside, Glenn Close deserves it. She really disappeared in that role. I didn’t see any Close-isms there. It was an extraordinary performance. But, clearly not flashy enough for the Academy.
Davis’ performance anchored the film – she is completely worthy of her nomination….and to say that Close isn’t flashy enough for the academy….um, didn’t know if you noticed but she is nominated…..just sayin.
Good luck with that prediction Francoco. I wouldn’t put any money on it if I were you. A Close win would be a great outcome anyway.
I think I am where everybody else is (although they may not show themselves as being like this).
We all know that at this stage the race is still non-predictable although the fact that it is now singularly a two woman race is evident.
BAFTA will make a bit of difference to the race – my mother is a BAFTA member (since she became one just recently we do not get to vote).
However, I can say to you right now that Streep is the favourite for BAFTA because of the explosion of the Iron Lady here in England.
Although, I LOVE Streep (and can name all her nominations off the top of my head at any moment) – I still am not sure if this year – I’d be delighted with a win from Davis or Streep.
Streep is overdue.
Davis is as well…
I’m kind of shocked by the ever more blatant baiting by the editors of this site.
Davis is a classy, intelligent, talented actor and the attempts of this site to make everything about her skin color, is insulting to her talents regardless of whether you think she’s the best of the five or not.
I’m actually starting to feel bad for Davis. You can say all you want about a a few random strangers who post comments at the bottom of articles, the fact that the editor/writers of this well established, popular site have dragged Davis’ name into this type of low-level, race-baiting and attempts to cause conflict is sad. Davis deserves much better than that.
I don’t know why you’ve decided to go this way. Is it really an attempt to highlight race in Hollywood? Is it because these type of articles get a lot of hits? Is it out of anger regarding something else? I don’t know. I suppose conflict is something that is often baited.
While you may think you’re doing something good or right for black actors with all these articles, you are actually using the plight of these gifted people in a really uggly manner while tricking yourself into believing that you’re doing something good. You’re not. And as a black person, you using such a major issues in such a manner is far more offensive than any comments I’ve read in the comment sections of this site. And as a woman, the almost obsessive stoking of competition and controversy in the Best Actress race is sad as well.
It would be funny and a real surprise if Glenn Close would win the Oscar. I would be happy for her!
But if we are honest: it is a two horse race between Meryl Streep and Viola Davis.
I had been predicting Streep for months, but since the SAG Award, I’ve switched to Davis. Based on the audience reaction to her win there — the LOVE they gave her — I think she is way out in front. The race is over.
What we have learned over and over from past Oscars is that the majority vote with their hearts. Davis’s quiet, graceful, classy performance is one that MOVES voters. Streep’s colder, technically stunning performance, is one that people admire, but that is not how Oscar voters vote.
I love both actresses and don’t care who wins. (I stopped caring too much who won after Elizabeth Olsen was snubbed.) But to me the race is not nearly as close as is suggested. Davis has this.
Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams Michelle Williams. She should win.
Sasha, why so fierce?
Viola:
Pros: BFCA, SAG. In a BP movie. Her race. Has support of actors branch (a bit redundant with SAG pro). Younger than Streep.
Con: Movie is not loved widely by all other branches (sadly) and the role is in a dramady, not a true drama. Her race.
Streep:
Pros: Critics support her. Weinstein. Feeling of overdue. Plays real life person. More “Oscar” like scenes than Davis.
Cons: Very disliked movie and VERY disliked character (hurts like in Julie/Julia). No BP nod.
Too close to call?
@Scott (the other one): Sorry, but to predict an Oscar win based on an audience reaction is like searching for a reason, if you know what I mean. The members of the Academy consists not only of actors/actresses, but also of producers etc.
The race is not over.
Team Davis, but no problem with a win by Streep. Luv Meryl.
IMO, The Iron Lady portrayed Thatcher as a stupid sociopath – as Sasha said no soul, but hardly flattering. She is depicted as having no human connections or even friendly relations with anyone besides Dennis. As fascinating as Streep’s portrayal is, I didn’t buy it. The directors fault, not hers.
Hahahaha Truly! I am both a Streep fan and Margaret Thatcher admirer -not for the substance of her policies, but her mad skills and transformational capabilities- but that movie was a piece of shit to say it nicely!
Meryl Streep is my favorite actress of all time.
Go Viola, go!!
Sasha, on your comment that you guys support her because she gave the strongest performance of the five but also because it is so rare to have a black actress for the award at all:
I have to disagree with that approach and that way of viewing things, that affirmative action approach to Oscar voting. Now, I’m not stupid. I realize that using race as a positive to correct past injustice is not the same as using race as a bad thing, to keep someone out. I understand and realize your motives and motivations are excellent ones, very well intentioned. But the unintended consequence of this well-intentioned act is (as you have seen here) that it only riles up and causes more racial tension, unfortunately.
When whites are passed over for blacks on account of their race, it creates bitterness and resentment. You’d have a good argument if you said: “tough cookies, they suffered this for 200+ years, so now you pay for the sins of your father.” But that pill is very hard for people to swallow on account of their race. I mean, it is a hard pill to swallow for a minority to be discriminated against, on account of their race, there is no reason why it is not also hard for a white person to be similarly discriminated against. Worse, add to that that the white person (Meryl, as example) is probably not the offender – it is her ancestors, and you’re asking her to pay for something she didn’t do (using Meryl as an example, but my comment applies throughout).
The result of this is simply an extension of racial animosity and strife. Do I agree that something desperately needs to be done to correct the situation of roles for minorities in Hollywood? Abso-fucking-lutely.
But I strongly believe that giving someone extra credit on something like an award simply because they are of a minority, while intended to erase past racial injustices, unfortunately only furthers the divide between the races and racial distrust. Look no further than what has happened on your site over the last few weeks for persuasive evidence of that.
The best way to avoid people on both sides bringing up race, feeling like it’s about race, and becoming more infuriated against one race (black, if you’re infuriated by Davis, or white if by Streep), is to stop making it about race ourselves.
[[I know it's not going to stop being about that for the rest of the campaign season, but, my two cents on how it could stop being about that]].
A look at the box office data shows that The Iron Lady is outside the US more successful than The Help. I think that The Help is a typical americaan story, so that´s why it was here in Europe not that big box office hit. The same goes with The Blind Side.
Whereas (because of the topic) The Iron Lady is more popular here in Europe.
I am probably one of the more vitriolic Streep fans, but after finally seeing all five nominations, I have to go with Michelle Williams. Her performace to me was the most amazing, and of the five, I thought she would be the least likely to pull it off. Viola and Meryl are both good, but I still don’t think that Viola’s role was big enough for lead, and I think this may be the worst film for which Meryl has been nominated. She’s good, as always, but The Iron Lady is not.
I’d say that Streep supporters are more angered at Viola’s role being upped to Lead when it was should be in Supporting. I saw The Help in the summer and knew/wanted Viola to win as Best Supporting Actress. Claiming that this role is Lead is like a switcheroo of saying Mo’nique is Lead and Sidibe is Supporting. Really?
I’d love to see Viola rewarded, but her incusion is Lead almost reeks of a government induced quota system…thus barring ‘real’ leads…Rooney, Close, Tilda, Oduye, Williams.
Just FYI – the 60 Munutes episode this past Sunday that Sasha referenced is available for viewing at CBS.com.
That episode is about Meryl, Anna Wintour (Vogue editor) and some lady named Dolly Parton.
Sure the fans are rabid (you should see what Gaga’s little monsters are saying about Madonna!) but the simple truth is that if the Academy simply rewarded what they felt was ‘the best’ each year – with no politics or favourites or personal stories interfering they situation would be so different. Meryl would probably have 2 Best Supporting Actress awards and 2 or 3 Best Actress awards.
I would say they are neck in neck. I want Viola to win but I see it going to Meryl. The publicity behind her is non stop. She is everywhere you look. Viola has a good publicity machine behind her but in the end it simply comes down to who the voters will want to see take the stage.
Sasha/Ryan – you may know this. Am I right in thinking that no black actress has ever won the BAFTA for lead actress? BAFTA will go to Streep but if I am right it would be nice is history could be made on my side of the pond.
I think it’s a canard to mix dreadful politics into the discussion because you happen to not like Thatcher.
I don’t see how it’s wrong to look for political message packed into a movie about a Prime Minister.
If the focus of a film is truly to be dementia and a woman’s determination to prevail over insurmountable odds, there are several million other ways to tell a story about several million other honorable women whose struggles are more universally sympathetic.
You know who “mixed dreadful politics into the discussion” of The Iron Lady? Phyllida Lloyd. Bu making a movie about dreadful politician and then leaving out all the dreadful parts.
There’s an abhorrent TV commercial for a Michigan politician that aired during the Superbowl in which a Chinese-American actress bicycles up alongside a rice paddy and mocks American economic policies in broken Chinglish. There’s nothing wrong with me questioning the wisdom of that actress’s decision to sign on for such a role. She chose a controversial acting job, and it’s ridiculous to expect everybody to overlook that fact, tell us to pretend it’s only about her “performance”. No, it’s also about her choice to play that role.
Sorry, I’ll decide for myself how I feel about a movie and performance, beginning with wondering why the hell anybody would write such a role and why anybody would want to play it. Except I think we know why, don’t we?
So there’s your carnard. Pretending that there’s no controversy in approaching a provocative biopic and draining all the ugly stuff out so that we’re left with a sparkplug heroine we’re supposed to sympathize with. I don’t feel the sympathy and no amount of browbeating instructing me to ignore what I feel in my heart is going to churn any sympathy up.
What’s going to happen when politically controversial Malcolm X is up against retired outlaw Will Munny for best Actor? Malcolm X is going to fail to win the sympathy of many voters, that’s what. Face that reality and stop telling me to forget about the factual history I can’t forgive.
I will not apologize for failing to be entertained by any movie that seeks to portray Reagan and Thatcher as spunky doddering victims. They were smooth-talking image-machine victimizers. People directly responsible for unjust death and suffering on a massive scale. Dementia? Sometimes Karma works like it’s meant to.
brandz, I’m deeply sorry to hear about the loss of your partner in the early years of the plague. The horrors of those years are unimaginable.
I have been a Streepaholic for years, watching countless Oscar telecasts hoping they will read out her name. Her loss to Bullock was the final straw making me realize the Oscars are a joke. Streep should have at least four or five Oscars by now.
But this year I want anyone but Meryl to win. I would hate that after all this time her overdue Oscar would be for playing a dithering old battle axe in a pointless film. I would have loved to see her play Thatcher in the vein of Whitaker playing Amin… a charismatic, self-serving monster. What a lost opportunity.
Please. Anyone but Meryl this year.
I was very fond of Streep as a technically brilliant actress before. However the Streeper fanatics totally destroyed everything for me. Hitchcock and Kubrick never won an Oscar and these are true auteurs and masters of cinema. I have never soon their fans being obnoxious on such grand level. Hey, Scorsese only has one Oscar and he has made more classics any active actors/actresses (including De Niro) can claim.
If Meryl Streep doesn’t win her third Oscar this year after a 29 year lapse, the veteran actress should take comfort in Katharine Hepburn’s Oscar history. Miss Hepburn won a Best Actress Oscar in 1933 and didn’t win her second until 1968. A mere 35 years. She had received 8 Best Actress nods over the preceding years, but always came up empty. Of course, Hepburn never attended the awards, unlike Miss Streep who except for one time, has always sat through the dull ceremony, (she should get an award for that!) only to go home empty handed. Miss Hepburn went on to win 2 more Oscars, one the following year, and with 4 wins, became the most Oscared performer in Academy Awards history. A record that still holds up thirty years later! I could easily see Miss Streep achieving that same feat one day. Whatever the case, the love and respect this woman has is more meaningful than any award.
I’m sorry David, but I have never understood that reasoning. The award is for best actress (for the best acting work), not for the best movie or for the best actress in the best movie.
“I’m actually starting to feel bad for Davis”
I’m starting to feel for both of them. To assign any importance or agenda to an actor’s performance other than the skill of the performance itself is to do them a disservice. They are actors, trick ponies that entertain us and, occasionally, enlighten us about ourselves. To read more into their work is silly and, in the context of the two films in question, even sillier.
The Help, as a film, is a nice piece, but nothing special, imo, and Viola does great ensemble work with the limited amount of screen time she has. Give her the Oscar, if you will – no problem with that because she’s a brilliant actor – but don’t think for a moment it will change a thing. Save that vote for the ballot box, for god’s sake. I’d personally rather see Davis win for the full-fledged, complex characterization we all know she has in her, not a Hepburn-esque supporting turn.
The Iron Lady is a mess – why use Thatcher as the subject if the main character is not used to examine policies and general impact this person had on her society? If it’s just a tale of going down the road from being powerful and savvy to the heartbreak of dementia, then the only reason to use Thatcher is to provide the actor with an opportunity to impersonate her. I don’t see the point; there’s not enough to the film to even make a lame karmic argument. Give her the oscar this time to make up for past oversights, if you will – no argument here – but don’t mistake that act for anything more than what it is. It’s technically interesting to watch, but it is not her best performance and it is not the best performance of the year. Neither of them are.
Ryan: I agree that the role itself should play into the calculus – Thatcher is a horrid person historically and the screenplay doesn’t even scratch the surface on that (I do think they portray one or two bad things, but it’s mostly white washed). I agree this detracts from the strength of the movie, the character, and therefore the performance, and thus counts against Meryl.
I guess I’m surprised when you guys react negatively to the same exact criticism of Viola’s character: some people feel like she’s playing the black woman rescued by the white woman too much, that stereotype again, and find that offensive and detracting from the movie and the performance. Now, I happen not to agree with that, and do agree with the criticism of the portrayal of Thatcher, but that’s just me. Someone who is conservative in their political views probably feels the opposite of me: no problem with the portrayal of Thatcher, etc.
Point being, both are valid points about the characters vis a vis the performance – it is not fair to call one of those views racist or get angry at them, and hold the other view. It’s part of the same line of thought, you just happen to disagree with one and not the other.
Streep fans, just don’t come to this site, Sasha will NEVER support Meryl for the win, and each year will come someone “more deserving” or black, or with a better movie to support instead, and she will have no trouble posting tons of articles stating why Streep shouldn’t win, and that’s fine, it’s her site after all, but to avoid confrontation just avoid these type of articles, Viola may win, and Meryl will lose and everyone involve with this site will be happy, except Rooney, Close, Williams and Streep fans, probably, but it’s better than fighting against the owner of the site because you’ll always lose.
I used to love this site, but lately all I see is articles that instigate this “fight” and then Sasha complains of vicious comments, well what a surprise, you are asking for them, just look at the title, anyway, I can’t wait for the awards season to be over so we can go back to whats important, enjoying films.
Ryan – I hadn’t read your last post as I was writing mine. We must be drinking the same brand of coffee, with reagrds to TIL, anyway.
@Ryan Adams
Yes, Thatcher was a dreadful person, a dreadful politician. That we agree on. I’m basing my preference for Streep based on her performace. Yes, she palyed adreadful politician. We all know that. I don’t think the character she plays should really be a part of the discussion. It’s a canard. Streep’s performance is head and shoulders above the field of nominees. She’s in the entire film, palying a LEAD role in a drama. She essentially plays two characters in the film. Based on acting and complexity of the role, Streep is the standout. It’s her time, she deserves to win.
I feel sorry for Viola and Meryl if they get negativity from BOTH sides. They are friends, we know this. Both will survive if the other one wins. They will both continue getting good roles in the future (not just Meryl).
I feel sorry for the other three nominees as well. They get absolutely no exposure. How about an article about them and who has the best chance of spoiling this two-way-race? Somehow it feels like Close has gotten some publicity lately, reaching Williams. Mara has no chance… yet. Academy is almost certain that she will reprise her role twice more.
I’m often bigger fan of subtle performances (Bening over Portman), so I have no problem if Viola wins (and it was not as subtle as Bening’s). No. I would be thrilled. As a “Streeper” that is not hard to say at all.
Ryan: If those nasty comments from certain Streep fans never got here (in public), why are we even talking about this? Just ban those people without a warning. You can’t get hundreds of those a day… so that it would take too much time.
“…that her fans become damn near vicious, ready to take anyone down who opposes her.”
This is my favourite website, but reading these on a daily basis is quite hurtful. It’s… I don’t know what it is anymore.
And I don’t play the so-called race card. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, but all I see is two American actresses with equal chances to win. On this website, sometimes it feels like I HAVE TO talk about race, but I don’t want to.
some people feel like she’s playing the black woman rescued by the white woman too much, that stereotype again, and find that offensive and detracting from the movie and the performance…
Point being, both are valid points about the characters vis a vis the performance – it is not fair to call one of those views racist or get angry at them, and hold the other view.
I’ve never said it was racist for anyone to have misgivings about the structure of The Help. Jorge, I’m like you — I see Aibileen and Minny as strong self-actualized women in their own right. The fact they they have friend who are white women who support and encourage them does not make Skeeter a “savior” in my eyes. It makes her a friend.
What we see as racist are people who come to the site yelping about how Viola Davis only got a standing ovation from the SAG because she’s black.
We don’t interfere with arguments anybody wants to have about the framework of the screenplay of The Help.
…It’s aggravating that some people still want to insist that Viola Davis is a supporting actress in a story where she is clearly co-lead.
It’s weird to me that anyone would get hung up on some antiquated formula declaring There Can Be Only One Main Character in a Story! Acting categories have been flexible for 84 years. Pouty Oscar-watchers need to find something else to whine about.
“On this website, sometimes it feels like I HAVE TO talk about race, but I don’t want to.”
I’m with you, Tero. It’s not much above locker room comparisons and towel-snapping. If only people could see and hear it for what it is.
Ryan: If those nasty comments from certain Streep fans never got here (in public), why are we even talking about this?
We don’t talk about it unless somebody says “who’s being vicious? I don’t see anything vicious.”
And we don’t bring up the vicious thing to begin with unless people start to cry about “why did you close the comments!? How come my jerky comment disappeared?!”
Nobody ever gets banned for making one of two blunders out of 100 genial contributions.
sometimes it feels like I HAVE TO talk about race, but I don’t want to.”
Part of you wants to talk about. Part of you doesn’t. Take a cue from which part of you wins and don’t torture yourself.
Write what feels right to you. What else can any of us do but write about what feels right?
Wolf — Actually, I don’t know what you mean. Given that the Oscars are, at root, simply a popularity contest, I think it is EXTREMELY telling to watch the audience reactions at the SAGs. That night, only three people got standing ovations, and two were of the career-capping type: Betty White and Mary Tyler Moore. The only other ovation, which was immediate, loud and long, was for Viola Davis.
The SAG group is the largest representative sample from which we can draw meaning. The actors are the largest voting block in the Academy, and so how the actors at SAG respond to someone is a very useful insight into how it might play out in the Oscars.
Sure, there are lots of factors that can play into Oscar success, but I remain convinced that the reaction to Davis at the SAGs was very telling. I don’t think this is “searching for a reason” — I think it is paying attention to an important indicator. And lets not forget that a SAG win has become the most accurate predictor of an Oscar win — 4 for 4 in the last two years.
“It’s aggravating that some people still want to insist that Viola Davis is a supporting actress in a story where she is clearly co-lead.”
Somebody get a stopwatch, please – I’d like to see screentimes for the 5 nominees. In an ensemble work, “co-lead” is assigned to the actor(s) with the best rep. and biggest draw. It’s a business decision used to sell a movie.
Yes, she palyed adreadful politician. We all know that. I don’t think the character she plays should really be a part of the discussion.
That’s the same as saying nobody should discuss whether or not Fassbender walks around with his cock out in Shame. Pay no attention to the cock behind the curtain! Pay no attention to historical context!
Sorry, some things demand to be looked at, to be taken into consideration.
Actors make choices. It’s not as if Meryl Streep was forced against her will to fight this battle. She wasn’t drafted to go fight in the Falklands. She declared this war of her own accord.
Her questionable choices of roles for the past 25 years have been her major problem in grabbing this 3rd Oscar some people seem to thinks she’s craving.
Well, if we go to statistics, I do mention it. But it should not be made a big deal. Like it’s the reason for the win. It’s a statistic like Jessica Tandy is the oldest winner in acting categories, and that record is going to be broken now. Plummer is not winning because of his age – (possible spoiler) von Sydow (more or less) would.
I understand that the subject matter of The Help cries for this talk. So, it’s not completely uncalled for.
I will conclude: GARY OLDMAN for the WIN!!! It could happen, seriously.
Streep fans, just don’t come to this site, Sasha will NEVER support Meryl for the win
Paranoid much? I fully supported Streep to win for Julie & Julia (which was a half-terrible movie). I did not support Sandy Bullock. I merely pointed out that Sandy Bullock was going to win and it didn’t matter how many Streep fans complained (I’ll use a nice word) about it. Sandy was gonna win for various reasons, none of which have to do with performance. THAT was one of Streep’s very best. I supported her fully to win for Adaptation. I was one of her and Doubt’s main champions. I was one of the main champions for Devil Wears Prada and Streep’s performance specifically. Just ask the publicist. Until you’ve been coming here for over a decade, don’t you tell me my business. You have no idea what I think and what I believe. You and your mob have laid out your frustration on me and this site but it is misplaced. Viola Davis would be in exactly the same position she’s in now whether I “supported” Streep for the win or not. As it happens, I personally feel Davis WAY WAY deserves to win for that performance, using Ms. Streep, in fact, as my guide. Streep is the one who pointed the way for Davis when she asked Hollywood to give her better parts. Well, that better part came and hopefully it will lead to better and better parts. You people need to back away and realize what an exceptional person Streep is, what her grand contribution to Hollywood is and how none of that changes whether she wins an Oscar or not.
I used to love this site, but lately all I see is articles that instigate this “fight” and then Sasha complains of vicious comments, well what a surprise, you are asking for them, just look at the title, anyway, I can’t wait for the awards season to be over so we can go back to whats important, enjoying films.
Yay, see ya. There’s the door, pally.
Meryl will lose for a very good reason–she wasn’t very good in a waxed dummy sort of performance in a VERY mediocre film which has received negative reviews and which has underperformed at the BO. If the Weinsteins weren’t in her corner then nobody would be giving her even a slight chance of winning.
People like to complain as if there’s been some conspiratorial alignment against her–but they igore the simple fact that she really hasn’t deserved a lot of those 17 moninations AND at least two of them were for BA when she should have been in the SA category.
I also don’t care for Olivia Spencer all that much in SA, and would NOT be shocked if Bejo takes it (remember when everyone thought Lauren Bacall was a shoo in) and SHE lost to a French woman in the Best Picture winner.
and some lady named Dolly Parton.
LOL
Sasha, why so fierce?
I don’t think this is the real Tom O’Neil.
Until you’ve been coming here for over a decade, don’t you tell me my business. You have no idea what I think and what I believe.
Ryan: [interrupting] Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s say you have no idea and leave it at that, okay? No idea. Zip. None. If you had an idea of what we do, we would not be good at what we do, now would we? We would be cunts. Are you calling us cunts?
Sasha: Staff Sergeant Adams has a style of his own. I’m afraid we all have to get used to it.
First of all, Davis’ performance was not a lead!
Yeah, it’s a lead. Nicole Kidman in The Hours? Not a lead. Marlon Brando in the Godfather? Lead.
Sacha, i born in Brasil, live in Portugal and i really love your site since i discover, but you really think all the Streep fans are crazys and agressives? I hope not…
No, not all. But there are a few who give the fan base a bad name. I count myself as a Streep fan. As I’ve tried to say many times. I’ve grown up admiring her work and love her. Probably no one remembers that I was one of the few people who praised Mama Mia, even. I’ve seen it like ten times. So it’s annoying to me when people make dumb accusations about how I am anti-Streep.
If you think Davis’s performance is the most deserving then why can you not just leave it at that? The second part of the quote leads one to think you want Davis to win simply because she is a black actress. I have noticed that sentiment in several of your posts before. I understand that politics plays into the race, but championing someone for a win just because of their skin color seems a little racist.
Are you an American? Just asking because here, in this country, it IS now, maybe someday it won’t be, but for now it *IS* about race. The Oscar race is political. It sets the standards for power and dominance in our culture and it is 99% white. It is nearly impossible for a black woman, or an Asian woman, for that matter to break through. Look at how long it took for a woman to win Best Director. But it happened. Only one black (mixed race) woman has ever won Best Actress and that was Halle Berry. The problem isn’t that black actresses aren’t as good as white actresses it’s that we’ve been conditioned to identify mainly with the white story. The minority story has yet to become just a story. It is about race. The Help is about race. Obama’s presidency is much about race. It stirs up a lot of shit in our country on both sides and we’ve yet to really find a way to erase it. Perhaps we never will. I’ve been at this game for 13 years and I see the way it goes, every year, it’s another white woman getting the better part (and even they have to fight for those now) — like Streep, I recognize that the fault lies with the studios and the powers that be having no confidence that a black actress can make money, lead a film to success. That is always the argument and it’s why those projects simply don’t get made. Well, here is a project that — while it ain’t perfect for the white nor black community – did just that. Davis, a career of great performances, gives the strongest performance in The Help. She gets great reviews, even if the movie doesn’t. It fucking makes $165 million and still … and still … the critics go for Streep. You guys go for Streep. I have never thought that Oscars reward the most deserving. Deserving is a matter of opinion and perspective. Oscars are won because of studios, mostly, and publicists. The Oscars are political. Don’t ever be fooled into thinking otherwise. I hope that the next time Viola Davis is up for an award we won’t have to talk about race anymore.
Oh man … where to begin..
Davis was barely lead in The Help. Bringing up her race, like every blogger/journalist/Davis fan does, is becoming a little racist in and of itself. Race should have nothing to do with it, we know it does unfortunately, but leave that condescending behaviour to the voters and focus on what really should matter: the performance.
Yes, Davis was fantastic in The Help. She really knows how to cry well on screen, I have to admit that a couple of those “tear-jerking” moments she had almost jerked my tears, but in all honesty: was the role she played in the Help that much different than what she did in the 7 minutes she had in Doubt? I don’t think so. The point is: it SEEMS like she doesn’t have a lot of range and can play only one type of character. But i will confess that I haven’t seen much of her work so that’s a minor point right now.
The other thing I have problems with here is the type of character she’s playing. It’s a stereotype (not nearly as big as Spencer’s) but the tortured soul of an abused black maid soaring again because of her strength and will to “do the right thing” … come on. I’m really surprised at how many critics have gone gaga over this.
Another thing, if you think Davis winning an Oscar is going to open more doors for her please think about past Oscar winners Hilary Swank, Halle Berry, Forrest Whitaker, Sandra Bullock (ridiculous), Cuba Gooding Jr. …. there are more examples to be sure. Davis winning an Oscar does not guarantee a continued successful Hollywood career. Let’s be real about that too.
And now we come to Meryl Streep. For all the ‘hate’ thrown around at Streep fans, my experience has shown that there’s way more from the people who appear completely exhausted by Streep’s nominations and have started to take her brilliant acting for granted. Bringing all this talk about how the film she’s in wasn’t what you wanted it to be (it’s not about Thatcher’s controversial political life a.k.a. it sucks) is a clever way of ignoring one of Meryl Streep’s finest performances … EVER. There is not a single flaw in her performance whether she is 30yo, 40, 50 or 80yo Thatcher. She acts with her entire body, her eyes, the changes she does to her voice … people rave about the technicality of it for good reason but in those final moments in the film, how can you seriously say there is no soul (unless by then you’ve already made up your mind that the whole film is souless since it didn’t show what you wanted to see). For such a controversial and mostly hated leader that she was, only the greatest actress could humanize her to the point that you stop and say “wait a second here…this old lady deserves some of my sympathy here”.
In the real world where art trumps race or politics, there would be no contest. Streep would win the third Oscar (though in that world it would be more like her sixth) based on her phenomenal performance (not on people’s feelings for Maggie Thatcher). But, cynically terrified of not being politically incorrect as the world is, there is a dead heat now between Davis’ barely lead, emotional and unfortunate stereoptypical role and Streep’s clear lead and transformative act. It’s all very, very sad indeed and it’s only natural that a few of us Streep fans will be angry about it.
I have a feeling that if Meryl wins the BAFTA momentum will start to swing back her way and with Harvey’s push she can win that third Oscar. Of course, I will not be in the least bit surprised if Davis wins it. It will just be the third Oscar in a row that had Meryl nominated for the best performance of the year only to lose it for some politically correct bullshit. Good thing she’s such a class act, I doubt anyone else could still be smiling and appluading their competition as much as she still does.
This is the order of the performances best to worst Ive seen with the women:
1. Meryl
2. Rooney (another complete and flawless transformation, just didn’t have the soul brought on by Meryl who had the more difficult task of the two)
3. Viola
4. Glenn Close (really, nomination is a win here…what a terrible film and though she was great in it, she was nowhere near Oscar worthy)
Still have to see Williams’ in My Week with Marilyn.
I only saw the Help, so I can’t comment on Lady. But I’ve written it time and again — Streep was the BEST in the Devil Wears Prada — as supporting, which is what she should have run on and would have won. I don’t know how these studios determine what’s a supporting role and a major leading role. But Streep was absolutely contemporary bad-a** in Prada. I would like her to skip a year making movies, cuz she’s been making movies every year that I can remember living, and been nom’d for the past how many years? 5-6. She’s even nom’d and wins TV awards. But IF she wasn’t nom’d then the (movie) public would be up in arms.
I think what Hollywood voters are saying is — Streep move over and let a younger woman get some glory. I don’t think Viola Davis would cry if Streep won, because Davis has been working steady in TV and movies for a while now, also Broadway.
This is what I want someone to answer:
a) How is it that Betty White is winning TV awards every single year?
b) How come the Academy doesn’t ask Jennifer Hudson back to present an award?
I also wish the Internet would go on hiatus and give us all a chance to breath and live normally. The internet is the (best and) the worst of what’s wrong with free speech.
“Davis, a career of great performances, gives the strongest performance in The Help. She gets great reviews, even if the movie doesn’t. It fucking makes $165 million and still … and still … the critics go for Streep.”
But Sasha .. don’t you think those critics maybe believe that Streep actually gave a stronger performance?
Sasha, Meryl’s not best living actress, in fact there’s no such a thing. And she’s not overdue. Glenn Close is overdue, Meryl has two Oscars and 17 career nominations. She’s not overdue. No one is.Academy is too kind to her. I’m all for Williams, but Davis win would be fine.
Sasha: I’m european and I definately don’t know the experience of historical disscrimination of the USA. Here we don’t have any “race-issue” problem… and the first thing to do to don’t have this racist problems is to start to treat all people as EQUAL (black, white, mr. grains…). I can see the injustice for minorities… but that’s not a reason to make another injustice to cover the other. The favoritism (for being black) that you are defending is an injustice (as the discrimination is) and is the same failure that was done in the past but in reversal… and doesn’t serve to solve the problem but only serve to increase it. And favoritism is a double-edged sword, first because when a person is rewarded for his/her color of his/her sking and not for their merits… people KNOWS IT and they don’t see them as worthy of respect, and second because admitting that a person that has a different skin color regarding the mayority needs “extra help” over the rest to “fit in” is like admitting that they are little children who need help from “their parents”… and that’s DISGUSTING, if you are searching for equality try to treat people the same without discriminations AND FAVORITISM. I know a lot of latin people and BELIEVE ME they don’t want to be trated as little children who need favoritism, they want to make it for their own, for their merits and their efforts. The race should not be a problem (not for black but NOT FOR WHITE EITHER).
I’m wondering if the substantial British voting bloc in AMPAS might not put Streep over the top in the close race with Davis. I am not sure if Brits are part of SAG, but even if they are, there are more of our UK friends in the other guilds that are part of the Academy. Seemingly, as in the case of the ATONEMENT nomination and the overall reverence for THE KING’S SPEECH, the Brits could make the difference in a close race. Their understandable regard for Streep’s critically-praised turn as Margaret Thatcher may be something to consider in this voting.
How is it that Betty White is winning TV awards every single year?
personally, I can’t stand to watch more than 5 minutes of Betty White’s “acting” over the past few years. The material she’s given is awful.
But she’s a great personality, a charming witty individual, and a ubiquitous tireless talk show guest — I love her when she’s being herself.
I can’t be the only person who feels this way. Gotta assume there are people in possession of awards ballots who feel this way too.
Edie Falco isn’t a fraction as huggable. Nobody’s likely to stumble across Falco flipping through channels schmoozing with Craig Fergursin every other week. Anyone who doesn’t watch Edie Falco on Nurse Jackie isn’t going to see her. And nobody watches Nurse Jackie but me.
Mystifying how Betty White could win awards for tripe like her SNL appearance. 7 skits, 7 variations on Horny Old Lady. Ugh. Maybe she’s winning out of pity for the crap she’s subjected to playing.
Whether Viola Davis is a lead or not in The Help isn’t the issue. If the Academy wants to put her in the lead category, that’s fine. The issue is that there are large chunks of the film where she doesn’t show up and you almost forget about her. She’s not that memorable. But, there’s no point in discussing this here. People are too sensitive.
Nicole Kidman in The Hours made much more of an impact. as did Marlon Brando in The Godfather – who was also supporting but it’s Marlon Brando so who cares!
The issue is that there are large chunks of the film where she doesn’t show up and you almost forget about her. She’s not that memorable.
Um, right. Maybe not to you.
But Sasha .. don’t you think those critics maybe believe that Streep actually gave a stronger performance?
Sure. But it’s really not a fair contest to begin with, is it. Moreover, we’re all conditioned to respond more to the white narrative. Because Davis had to play an archetype it was easy to miss her performance within those constraints…
“it’s really not a fair contest to begin with… Davis had to play an archetype it was easy to miss her performance within those constraints”
You have said!!! Honestly, I really hope for Davis to win an Oscar but… for her role in “The Help”? I think she deserves a more deep, important and leading performance. She has talent, but I don’t think her role was “leading oscar” worthy.
By the way. Does the contrictions of Davis’ character somehow devalues the good work of Streep? I just don’t get, sorry.
“Sure. But it’s really not a fair contest to begin with, is it. Moreover, we’re all conditioned to respond more to the white narrative. Because Davis had to play an archetype it was easy to miss her performance within those constraints…”
I agree that it’s easier to miss Davis’ nuances than Streep’s in these two particular films, due to the way the characters were written and the screen time. But the fact that the contest isn’t fair should not take away from what Streep did with her role and putting aside race here, both performances should be judged on their own terms, equally. I think so, anyway.
Ryan: Is someone pointing out that Viola only got a standing ovation because she is black racist though? (I mean, I guess it probably is in context, given some of the vitriolic comments I was reading against her).
But, it may also happen to be true. People recognize a “finally” moment and give it a standing ovation. I would have given Ang Lee, Ms. Bigelow, Sidney Poitier standing ovations simply for reaching a milestone no one of their minority/gender had. I would have giving Scorcese one for “finally” getting there. Tom Hooper and Roman Polanski would not have gotten “finally” moments from me. Etc.
Not only do I think it is not necessarily racist to point out she may have gotten an ovation because of her race, I think it is likely also true. But I don’t see a problem with that – “She got a standing ovation cause of her race,” — “Yeah, so what? Black people have never reached that milestone, she deserves recognition as the first.” (Which is different than: “let’s make her the first cause no one else has reached it,” which in my view demerits her).
Am I missing something?
“Tom Hooper and Roman Polanski would not have gotten “finally” moments from me.”
Placing these two on the same line… you’re on dangerous ground
@Tero – fair enough – Roman is a great director, Tom Hooper was “Huh?” – but I feel like Scorcese is a master and he was way overdue.
Certainly worthy of discussion
This poisoning the well of discussion by those who run the site completely underminds the banner and agenda of the site: “”the trick is not minding.” Evidently this mantra has been pushed to the wayside in favor of supporting another agenda entirely, mainly that of appearing all-knowing and above reproach at the expense of rooting out opposing ideas perceived as attacks on character. This is no longer the site that it claims to be.
I’m all for discussing politics in film and racial issues in America, but not if it means bending down to the level of children to discuss them. This is no longer my awards site of choice.
All those insisting that Viola was supporting in The Help, watch Hud, where Patricia Neal’s Oscar-winning “lead” actress role makes all succeeding supporting actress nominations look like category fraud, except maybe for Viola in Doubt, Lee Grant in Shampoo, Beatrice Straight in Network, Judi Dench in Shakespeare in Love, and a few others with just 5-10 minutes on screen.
Really agree with the comment that ‘long stretches of The Help go by without Viola/Abileen and you forget about her character.’
To me – that character didn’t resonate like Hannibal Lecter or Don Corleone – supporting, yes, but even the mention of their name made them an undeniable presence dominating each story.
Sally-had Meryl/Devil wears Prada been placed and won in Supporting, you’d be howling about the injustice of bad Meryl beating Jennifer Hudson in Dreamgirls. Meryl should’ve been nominated Lead for The Hours (and won more so than Nicole.) That Virginia Woolf wasn’t even Supporting worthy…but…Meryl should’ve won Supporting for Adaptation—(not for Julia/The Devil)
Sasha – it would really shock me if you wrote a column stating your 10 favorite Meryl movie/performances and why. I know it’s hard for you to show any luv to anybody else.
@Tero
I too feel bad for both, Meryl and Viola.
It’s all about them, though it is clear Meryl wants Viola to win.
Watch her jumping estatic from her chair and clapping come Oscar night, like she did for Cher in 1988.
Yes TIL has bad reviews. No surprise.
Yet she’s nominated again. No surprise either.
Look what happened to DiCaprio. Having a baity role (a controversal man too), the film was made by an A-list director (Eastwood) and it got completely snubbed.
But the Academy loves loves LOVES to nominate Meryl for everything. I can understand why people are tired of that.
It doesn’t change the fact she’s nominated again. Nothing can sepperate Meryl and the Academy. Not even Phyllida Lloyd.
Sasha – it would really shock me if you wrote a column stating your 10 favorite Meryl movie/performances and why. I know it’s hard for you to show any luv to anybody else.
Again, don’t puke on the deck of the ship unless you’ve been sailing for a while. I’ve done those pieces on Meryl Streep. 13 years is as long as I’ve been doing my site. Don’t presume to know jack about me and what I’ve done, pal.
@Sonja
Another one taking Streep’s performances for granted. “But the Academy loves loves LOVES to nominate Meryl for everything. I can understand why people are tired of that.”
Many of us are actually tired of seeing her lose year after year, and more often than not after giving the best performance out the 5 nominated.
“Nothing can sepperate Meryl and the Academy. Not even Phyllida Lloyd.” Nominating her all the time and not actually awarding her…sounds like an abusive relationship, not really a loving one.
Did you even see The Iron Lady? Just curious.
“Watch her jumping estatic from her chair and clapping come Oscar night” of course she would if Davis wins. Meryl loves her. I doubt Davis would do the same though if Meryl wins and that says a lot doesn’t it?
This whole “Academy obviously loves Meryl” crap is what’s really becoming annoying.
Viola vs. Meryl break. Watch animated short nominee The Fantastic Flying Books of Mr. Morris Lessmore on YouTube. It’s 15 minutes of, well, books that fly.
@Sonja: “though it is clear Meryl wants Viola to win.” This is business! Maybe they are friends, we don´t know it for sure, but this is their work.
@Nik Grape:“Watch her jumping estatic from her chair and clapping come Oscar night” of course she would if Davis wins. Meryl loves her. I doubt Davis would do the same though if Meryl wins and that says a lot doesn’t it?”
And that´s why Meryl Streep has more class! And I think she´s beloved by her colleagues. Otherwise they wouldn´t nominate her.
@wolf “And that´s why Meryl Streep has more class! And I think she´s beloved by her colleagues. Otherwise they wouldn´t nominate her.”
Let’s hope they love her enough to actually award her this time
“But the Academy loves loves LOVES to nominate Meryl for everything”. I they LOOOOOOVEEEEE her so much… she wouldn’t have lost decade after decade after decade, no?
Yo! That´s my hope too! Otherwise the Academy is becoming a joke!
@Wolf and Nik Grape
How do you know Davis would not jump to her feet clapping if Streep won? This is the kind of ridiculous comment that Ryan and Sasha are pointing to, making these bland and tired generalizations about the character of someone you do not know. You also do not know Streep, so again, stop spewing stuff about people you know nothing about. This underhanded attack on Davis does nothing to help Streep and undermines your own opinion by making you look desperate and petty.
@Daren
They probably say that because Davis’ reaction when Streep won the Golden Globe…
I have to make another post..as i see we learned nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s
I can’t wait for this Oscar/Awards Season to be over and be back at appreciating films.
Mybe this is why The Artist is one of the best movie of the year.It reminds us that from time to time we have to shut up.
@Nik Grape
No, I haven’t seen TIL yet…. But I will asap when it opens in my country!!!
I was impressed with every clip I’ve seen and I doubt I’d be dissapointed with her whole performance.
My mom came in when a clip was shown and said (Is that new material of Margaret Thatcher?”
So she was really impressed too. (she’s the same age as Meryl)
About this “love” thing I’ve said… Well, I hope it’s kind of (strange) love, not punishment or something.
And it’s not like she’s surprisingly nominated, like she was for “Ironweed”, with no further percusors. She’s won a bunch of critic awards and the Drama Globe. The nomination was sealed.
I of course want to witness Meryl finally winning again. I was born the year she’s won the last time.
It’s just this time, I’m simply prepared of another loss. It’s sad, but I don’t have high hopes for her this year. *sigh*
So I’m just happy with the awards she’s won so far.
@Daren: I didn´t “attack” Davis. I´ve just commented a comment! I didn´t write that Davis wouldn´t stand up for Streep! Please read carefully. Sure, I don´t know Davis or Streep. I have nothing against Viola Davis.
But this hype about Viola Davis on this website doesn´t makes her for me more likeable. I have to say it again: “The Help” wasn´t a box office hit here in Germany. Maybe that´s why we europeans doesn´t understand the hype about “The Help”.
@ Daren: Read what I said again, i said i “doubt” Viola would and Sel is right, it’s because of Davis’ bland reaction at the Globes. It’s also because all Davis has been doing from what I read and heard is talk about how inspired she is by Meryl and how difficult it is for black women her age to get good roles (a few days after she officially got signed for two roles … lol) while Meryl is going around saying how brilliant Viola is …
So yeah, I don’t know them but what I read and hear and see says a lot. It’s not so hard to read between the lines sometimes. I don’t doubt Davis would be happy to see her inspiration win an award, and who knows maybe she also believes that Meryl gave the best performance haha, but to say Meryl would be happier for Davis than vice versa isn’t really a stretch is it.
@ Sonja: never give up hope.
In an earlier post, I stated that Katharine Hepburn never attended an Academy Awards ceremony. I meant as a nominee. I made a slight error. She did attend once but not as a nominee. It was 1974, I believe, and she made a surprise appearance to present The Irving Thalberg Award to producer, Lawrence Weingarten. It was a very touching moment.
@Nik Grape
Well, in all honesty… All I’m hoping for is there would be a tie. Problems solved, case closed, everyone would be happy. At least I would be.
Yes yes, it’s HIGHLY unlikely, but it’s not that it has not happened before… *shrug*
Ryan: Is someone pointing out that Viola only got a standing ovation because she is black racist though? (I mean, I guess it probably is in context, given some of the vitriolic comments I was reading against her)
jorge, I believe that such a feeling does carry uncomfortable racial undertones — because, see, what it seems to imply is that nobody would be standing for her if she was white.
Yet they stood for white Dick van Dyke — even though he’s not even a movie. And if we’re to believe that the SAG members jump to their feet every time a black actress appears on stage — that’s not only absurd to suggest — it’s demonstrably wrong. Nobody stood for Octavia Spencer (except of course the table reserved for The Help.)
of course, you’re right — the vitriol and nasty carping phrasing makes those kind of comments worse. That gets our attention — people who say such things are deliberately trying to push touchy buttons.
But even if questions about the standing ovation come up in the most innocent way, from somebody trying to look for explanations for the audience reaction — it’s just a clumsy way to say it, don’t you think? Some of the SAG members are standing because they want to show… what? Solidarity with her blackness? Sympathy? it just sounds wrong to me.
They all stand for their own reasons, and I’m not trying to say every single SAG member who stood did so because they’re so wowed by the movie. But I would hope most stood for one reason: because they truly admire her.
(I think there were a couple of people who were laggy in standing — I can replay the DVR and tell you who they are. So I guess a few people stood because they didn’t want to be the only 3 sourpuss jerks who couldn’t be bothered to get off their asses. I put those people in the same boat as those who think they’re obligated to stand “because she’s black”… ugh, it’s depressing to think about that mentality, isn’t it?)
Awardsdaily = CampaigningDaily.
When did this site stop being about watching and predicting the Oscars and becoming about trying to influence the Oscar race?
how difficult it is for black women her age to get good roles (a few days after she officially got signed for two roles … lol)
lol!
heck, can’t everyone see that one black actress with an Oscar nomination has signed up for two movies! Problem solved! Boy howdy! the floodgates are open now!
@Luke: This site continues to predict the Oscars. Didn’t you see yesterday’s Best Actor post?
Ryan Adams: You just said that many people are trying to look for explanations for the audience reaction at the SAG (that has nothing to do with Davis’ work). That has an explanation: it’s because many people felt that the award was deserved for someone else (yes, 90% think that Streep deserved it… but many others think about Williams, Close, Mara…).
It’s not a coincidence that nobody said the same thing about Octavia Spencer… THEY DON’T SAY IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT HER AWARD WAS REALLY DESERVEING FOR HER!!
But when things are not that clear, people start to wonder…
I have admired Streep in many films, but The Iron Lady is a preposterous movie and her performance comes across as pantomime, so much so that at some points I felt like I was watching Catherine Tate.
“lol!
heck, can’t everyone see that one black actress with an Oscar nomination has signed up for two movies! Problem solved! Boy howdy! the floodgates are open now!”
She was getting roles before this second Oscar nomination too, no? Emphasis on the ‘second’..
I just found it ironic that one day I hear from various sources how she talks about the difficulty of getting roles, then I watch Newsweek’s roundtable where again she talks about it…the next day I read how she landed two roles. Irony is funny, hence the lol, but don’t make it sound like my statement implies she’ll be getting roles left and right now.
Ryan and Sasha,
Just to ask your general points of view that if Viola were white, do you think she will have a chance to win like at the moment? Since I think the race issue is indeed, more or less, help her. (I do think she is great but I can’t imagine if she were white the situation would change or not) Thanks.
(I do think she is great but I can’t imagine if she were white the situation would change or not) Thanks.
SimSimi
the impact of the role itself relies on the gripping racial tension. It’s hard to devise a hypothetical situation that can turn Viola white and keep the other aspects of the film in play.
not trying to be flippant, but if we lived in a universe where Black people in the 1960s had White maids, then there might be a film and a role this rare and significant for White Viola. Then her Oscar prospects would be the same.
If you want to wonder what it Viola Davis were White and Emma Stone were Black, then they could switch roles — and Aibileen’s role would still be the one that grabbed us by the heart — but would Black Emma have the chops to pull it off? I haven’t seen evidence that she would.
but don’t make it sound like my statement implies she’ll be getting roles left and right now.
I don’t mean to imply that at all.
maybe we’re misunderstanding each other. I thought your implication was “lol, black actresses already get hired for movies! Oscar win or not! What’s she worried about? she gets plenty of roles.”
so all I mean is: good, then perhaps her Oscar nominations are helping her get bigger and better roles. How are the other 10,000 black actresses doing? They’re all on the gravy train now too? If they’re not, then it is still valid and relevant to talk about the lack of great roles for black actresses.
I mean, just because Viola Davis is doing well — by virtue, we might assume, partly due to her awards honors — that doesn’t mean the problem is solved. It means exactly what Viola Davis hopes it could mean — eventual greater opportunities for more and more black actresses.
I guess I don’t get why you think it’s so amusing that she’s getting great roles after two Oscar nominations. As is that somehow negates all her struggles? Like, “who’s she kidding? her career has been a breeze!”
the “lol” part.. I don’t know what’s so funny.
It’s not a coincidence that nobody said the same thing about Octavia Spencer… THEY DON’T SAY IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT HER AWARD WAS REALLY DESERVEING FOR HER!!
But when things are not that clear, people start to wonder…
That doesn’t really do much to explain nobody bothered to stand up for Octavia Spencer.
It Viola got a standing O and half the audience voted for somebody else… then if Octavia’s win “WAS REALLY DESERVING FOR HER!!” then why weren’t the audience doing cartwheels on tabletops?
You said ‘I’d say Davis has the edge because of the SAG but Streep has the edge because of the Weinstein’.
Meryl has the edge because she is the greatest actress of all time. Meryl IS Thatcher in this film. She hasn’t won for 29 years. This is her time.
@Ryan.
I don’t know if her career has been a breeze or not. I don’t know if it has been more or less of a breeze than for someone her age who happens to be white. My guess would be she’s struggled with finding great roles because of her race and that is unfortunate.
The thing I find amusing is that she talks about the difficulty of getting roles while at the same time landing two new roles. From what I’ve read/seen she’s making it a point to talk about the difficulty of black actresses getting roles every single time she can, and it’s sounding more and more like playing the sympathy card than actually talking about something relevant within the conversations. I don’t believe every conversation in the film industry has a place for “it’s so difficult for black actress to get roles”.
And naturally, her being black, if she talks about black actresses having a hard time she draws attention to herself. I’m sure she realizes that. So reading about how she’s landing new roles is amusing to me after all of that, how can it not be. I’m really glad she has these roles, but it’s ironic none the less.
And just for the record, I’d love to see more black actors in mainstream/critically acclaimed films not directed by Tyler Perry and the like, I really would. But this whole issue regarding Viola Davis just smells like strategy more than anything, plus it stands in the way of another fantastic actress’ more deserved win (who happens to be white)
The thing I find amusing is that she talks about the difficulty of getting roles while at the same time landing two new roles. From what I’ve read/seen she’s making it a point to talk about the difficulty of black actresses getting roles every single time she can,
I feel dumb pointing out that there are black actresses other than Viola Davis. You feel she shouldn’t care about them, and just shut up?
“I feel dumb pointing out that there are black actresses other than Viola Davis. You feel she shouldn’t care about them, and just shut up?”
It’s as if I only wrote one paragraph before.
She can be a champion for other black actresses all she wants but since everytime she mentions that she draws attention to her own self, and this she knows because she’s not stupid, it feels like it’s more strategy than relevant conversation. Like I said already. Not all conversations have a place for those remarks, that’s what pisses me off. So she should care about them of course, if she wants to, but not talk about it all the time. Is that so wrong?
I’m so glad the race is almost over. This is getting ugly. What the ardent fans of both don’t realize is that if Meryl wins, Viola will smile from the audience and keep it moving. If Viola wins, Meryl will smile from the audience and keep it moving. We’re not just dealing with two consummate professionals who like each other. We’re dealing with two very classy people.
That being said, for all the people who get mad every time Sasha brings race into it…you’re either not American, which is fine, or you do live in America, but in a dream world. It shouldn’t matter that Davis is black, but it does. Let’s please deal with reality. America is not some post-race haven. Hollywood, even less so. The world of acting is one of the few places left where you see “whites only” in job postings. Okay, not so blatantly. But it’s right there on the screen. They are NOT making movies about black people. Let me amend, they are not making movies that afford black actresses the opportunity to access the same range of complexity or emotions as white actresses. Not in films funded by major studios. So, Viola about to (knock on wood) win an Oscar…yeah, that’s a big deal. It’s awesome. I’m for it. And it doesn’t take anything away from Meryl, who is still the greatest living actress.
I think it’s sort of a no-brainer that Streep will win the BAFTA. As to which of the two wins the Oscar, Streep or Davis, I don’t have a clear preference. Both were terrific and both are deserving. I love it when either of the frontrunners for Actress wins and I think they are both deserving. That so almost NEVER happens for me.
@Jess
I used to love this site, but lately all I see is articles that instigate this “fight” and then Sasha complains of vicious comments, well what a surprise, you are asking for them, just look at the title, anyway, I can’t wait for the awards season to be over so we can go back to whats important, enjoying films.
Truer words were never spoken. Sasha and Ryan Adams are the victimizers, just like Reagan and Thatcher. Bottom line is neither likes the fact that Streep chose to make The Iron Lady. They hate the fact that she is playing dispicable Margaret Thatcher, a conservative politician whose policies they don’t agree. I never liked Thatcher, I vehemently disagreed with her policies, but I don’t let that cloud my judgement when deciding on an acting performance.
By now we all know that the only one actress who we can consider at the same level with Meryl Streep is the legendary Katharine Hepburn with 4 wins and 12 lead actress nomination at the Oscar in her 62 years of career span.
Here we have Meryl Streep in her 41 years of career, having 14 lead actress nomination but has ONLY won 1! How can we did this to her? What’s more stupid is the opinion some people made that her record-breaking nominations alone has spoken for itself that Meryl is the best, hence no need for us to give her an actual win of the Oscar.
Come on!
It’s like saying that 14 record breaking SILVER medals at the Olympic is already better than actually won another SO DESERVING GOLD MEDAL. People, come on now.
Until when will we keep denying her glorious work?
- We denied her superbly-antagonist-role-done-without-even-one-time-raising-her-voice in The Devil Wears Prada.
- We also denied her an Oscar for her immersing Julia Child role (thanks to the distracting work of Amy Adams)
- The memorable One True Thing moment when she make sure we know that she’s tired of being shushed,
- The obvious rob during her Out of Africa role
- The multi-layered emotional role in A Cry in the Dark
I haven’t got the chance to watch Silkwood and Ironweed but I think I’ve made my point: stop denying her great work because of other issues. I like Viola Davis who did great in The Help. But don’t you think the role is a bit similar to what she brilliantly did in Doubt? You want a subtle-role-with-great-emotional-burden-inside role? Check Meryl Streep’s for in One True Thing and compare. Streep didn’t win there, so why should Davis? Because she’s black and USA’s current president is too and The Academy has only given 1 lead actress award for 1 black actress in its 83 years of awarding?
Come on now, people.
Nik, you’re just picking. It’s as if she needs to say, “Someone give Lynn Whitfield a movie” before you’d think she wasn’t strategizing. It makes no sense. She’s not saying “It’s hard for me to get roles.” She’s saying “black actresses”. So, yeah, no dice.
Sasha, you too often dally with hyperbole. But I wouldn’t be here if I weren’t interested in what you have to say.
There’s no way the Actress verdict could go that would not please me. If I ever seem armed for a fight on this year’s Best Actress it has nothing to do with the competition and likely a lot to do with the language used to describe it.
Wish people didn’t resort to such nastiness over the good chance Viola Davis will win over Meryl. Granted I would vote for Meryl over Viola but that’s not the point. I grow disappointed every year when people take things so seriously.
I was so inspired by this piece and Mark Harris’s essay that I decided to write my own case for Meryl Streep:
http://cinemablographer.blogspot.com/2012/02/why-meryl-streep-deserves-oscar.html
Chance, all I’m saying is she doesn’t have to mention it all the time. That’s all. And maybe she doesn’t, it was just that one day where I saw it all over the place for some reason that it ticked me off and then the next day she has two new roles. Heh.
Pat: great piece. Agreed completely, of course
Good one, Pat.
It’s pretty simple: Streep fans are mad because Meryl never wins and we have to watch “actresses” like Bullock winning in front of her nose. We, the “streepers” are also tired of watching actresses campaigning for themselves in a very obvious manner (Bullock and Davis this year were begging to win everywhere) when Meryl never campaigns for herself.
Meryl gave the best performance of the year for me and most people, but everyone is saying “well, but Davis is black and her character is a nice person”. I DON’T CARE!! The Oscars are supposed to reward the best performance of the year!!
The Oscars are NOT:
-A lifetime achievement award, or the “overdue” factor: Dench winning for a couple of minutes, after all the great performances she gave, was ridiculous and she even said that in her speech. The same with Scorsese winning fo The Departed, a remake, and many others.
-A “humanitarian” award: I don’t care about race, personal history, etc. Halle Berry won just because she’s black, but she didn’t deserve it. And the same goes to others who won for undeserving reasons.
-An award to mediocre people who gave a performance slightly abobe their usual crap: Bullock, Paltrow, Witherspoon, Zeta-Jones…I’m talking to you.
If it would be about the best performance of the year, as it should be, Meryl would have a couple more Oscars and on the other hand she wouldn’t have been nominated for two or three undeserving performances like Music Of The Heart.
It seems they always nominate Meryl by default, but they never give her the damn Oscar…….
Oh the irony! So often the Oscar feels like it is payback for something – whether it is an actor who has given a lifetime of great performances, without adequate recognition, or a director or writer who has contributed so much to the culture, but by the time they get around to honouring them, their classics are long behind them, and invariably they cannot compete with their best work – e.g Scorsese and Streep in different categories. Spielberg had to make the ultimate Oscar bait movie to finally win one; Scorsese was way overdue. Meryl well…..
I have no issue with whoever wins the Lead Actress Oscar this year – it would be an emotional moment for whomever gets the prize. The irony that the two frontrunners are genuinely convivial, and that the elder has championed the younger, is rich with sentiment in itself. At the end of the day, it is not about the ‘definitive’ best performance – that is impossible to measure, just subjectively assess and vote, based on the myriad of factors that have either been rammed down your proverbial, or already contained in your cerebellum – if you have pre-conceived ideas and preferences on who is deserving and why.
I have watched many actors such as Geraldine Page (an emotional moment indeed as F Murray Abraham editorialised as he read out her name as the greatest actor in the Engligh speaking world (or something like that), Henry Fonda, Kate Hepburn, Alan Arkin, John Gielgud, James Coburn, Al Pacino, Paul Newman win Oscars arguably for their body of work as well as the performance of that year. Whether Viola Davis wins becuase she is seen as due, or that her performance and win changes the landscape in casting and funding in Hollywood, or whether Meryl Streep wins because it is high time that she was given that 2nd Lead award, as well as giving another tour de force, is simply choice – not empiric, nor fair or just nor right nor wrong.
For all the diabolical decisions that people have torn their hair out over (Crash, Marisa Tomei, Tom Hooper etc etc), we continue to look to the Oscars as at the very least a potential mirror for our own tastes and values. It never reflects back our subjective preferences, sometimes it surprises and affirms quality choices, other times it is deemed flawed and ridiculous. I wish that more actors/directors/ writers were able to be nominated each year – giving more exposure to a range of storytellers and performers. Filmlovers will always seek out what they want to assuage their moviegoing needs and wish to mirror their concerns and sensibilities. I am always excited about the Oscars, regardless of whether the nominations are apt or flawed.
In that spirit, i will once again hold my breath when Actress in a leading role is announced. Meryl Streep has been a lifelong idol of mine. She is one of, along with Woody Allen, Jane Campion and a handful of writers, directors the reasons that i am passionate about the movies. No-one in my 35years of movie going, has inspired me and delighted me more than Meryl Streep. As with a Jane Campion film, when i sit down and the opening frames are revealed, i know i am in the hands of a master (or is that mistress?). With Meryl, her committment to the craft and to each and every role elevates what may be an ordinary film into a good one, from a good one into a great one. I may be a fanboy (middle aged) but unapologetically and respectfully so. I would love to see Judy Davis, Laura Linney, Julianne Moore and Glenn Close win an Oscar. But for now, in this year, i would dearly love to see the finest screen actor be acknowledged with the award for BOTH the performance of this year and for the incredible body of work.
I have never self promoted on this site, but i would like to share a clip i made for youtube, to honour Mary Louise Streep. Oscar or not, she has enriched the movie culture indelibly. Thank you Sasha and Ryan for opening the threads to allow us to wax lyrical about what propels our passion for this medium. I respect the panoply of views that are canvassed. They too offer the opportunity to examine beliefs, mindsets and preferences. That is what i most takeaway from this site.
My tribute to Meryl Streep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tYR_W6G17g
@daveinprogress
Well done, sir.
Very nice dave..very well said. She’s raised the bar so high, and she is truly one of a kind. Great stuff. I’d love to see a youtube montage of some of her best acting moments, then hear someone say “Viola Davis is due an Oscar”.
daveinprogress,
great contribution to the discussion and nice job with the video tribute. You and Mel have written my favorite comments of the day.
I’d love to see a youtube montage of some of her best acting moments, then hear someone say “Viola Davis is due an Oscar”.
er… because Meryl’s talent somehow causes every other actress’s talent and career to be null and void? No.
Thank you Ryan and Steve and Nik for your support and feedback – it means a lot to me. I get very misty over Meryl – but i am also equally nostalgic about great moments in Oscar history – Linda Hunt, Marlee Matlin, Marcia Gay Harden (coming out of nowhere that season), Tilda Swinton Halle Berry, Kathryn Bigelow. Whether they are genuine surprises or long wished for events, these are defining and shifting moments. I for one crave more of them. I live in hope!
“I for one crave more of them. I live in hope!”
Those make for the best moments, no matter who you are rooting for. I think we’re guaranteed at least one this year. Will it be Max? Pitt? Meryl?
Any one of those three and the place will go crazy.
It’s good to allow a fantasy moment
For me – this year – a great surprise and delight would be:
Scorsese for Hugo;
Glenn Close (iknow, weird as i am a Meryl fanboy), but Academy award winner Glenn Close has a nice ring to it, and she is one amazingly good actor – i know it won’t happen, but all the oxygen would leave the room!
Hugo – for Best Picture
“er… because Meryl’s talent somehow causes every other actress’s talent and career to be null and void? No.”
Er..no. Because if we’re talking about who is “due” (I hate the very notion of that), those who say Davis is due after just being consistent in the business and getting a second nomination would (or should) be hushed by how much Meryl is due for her third after seeing a montage of all the performances she’s done. It’s just the whole ‘due’ thing with Viola vs. Meryl, so you’re way off by bringing “every other actress” into this. Besides, neither of them are due anything, the deserving one is the one with the better performance. It seems like it’s Justice vs. History with these two ladies.
I too await one of those jaw-dropping surprise moments, there haven’t been that many in the past few years.
would (or should) be hushed by how much Meryl is due for her third
If we can agree nobody is due 1 Oscar then certainly nobody who already has 2 is due 3.
I’ve never said anybody is due. I don’t play that ‘due’ game.
There are genius filmmakers who are no less genius and no less revered even if they have Zero Oscars.
How about try not to obsess about filling Meryl’s trophy case so full that she has to buy a bigger house to hold all her awards.
alluhrey
check your email
Ryan, I agree with you about the due game. That game sucks. My initial remark was to people who like to play it.
As far as Meryl’s trophy case is concerned, she’s only got two that REALLY matter so I think she’s got some space left for a few more of those
I am so tired of all this Meryl vs Viola crap. I saw both movies. I* barely noticed Viola with all the other good performances in The Help(which is so overrated)while I detested Thatcher but bawled my eyes out at Meryl’s performance. For me there is simply no contest. I do admit that Viola will win because of all these emptions going on in oh so liberal Hollywood and that is why I won’t even bother watching the Oscars.
A very interesting article by Andrew O’Hehir in Salon.com:
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/23/how_viola_davis_took_meryl_streeps_oscar/