Salon’s Thomas Schaller neatly sums up one of the worst things about Oliver Stone’s “W” — it’s boneheaded opportunistic release date:
…October 17? There are few things conservatives love more than feigning outrage while throwing, um, stones at people like Oliver Stone and Hollywood more generally. And if Stone’s own directorial past is any prologue, there almost certainly will be a scene or two in the new film which can be challenged as to whether it conforms exactly with historical accounts, providing fodder for talk radio’s wailing and arm-flailing.
Three weeks before the election, it could prove unhelpful to Obama and Democrats. I would be more excited to see the film on November 17, with the election in the rear view mirror and the era of Bush retrospection unofficially and unapologetically underway.
In the final days before the election we should be focused on the future, not poking ditto-heads to make them spew up the news cycle. Just what we need. More clowns at the October Surprise Party.
34 Responses for "“W” dumb as a rock; Stone not a lot smarter"
Too bad it’s not Schaller’s choice. Perhaps, he should try to find a job as a producer or for Lionsgate, and influence the decision making behind the release date. Until then, his say is completely irrelevant, and W. will be released on Oct. 17.
Anyway, why should Stone care about how his movie might affect the election? The presidential election ought not limit or delay artistic expression. If the decision was made to release it on that date, then let it be. Moreover, If we can’t maintain our focus on the presidential election because of some movie, then we are to blame for our short attention span and sensationalist tendencies; not some movie.
The timing of the film’s release is pretty tacky.
So little faith in voters? I’m sure voters can see pass through the circus that Stone is about to unleash.
You can get away with doing anything these days under the veil of “its artistic expression.” I don’t care much for Bush as President but he is a human being and so is his family. This is not Nixon or Kennedy who are deceased. Besides its just going to be be another hatchet job. If an artist wanted to be really creative they should make a positive film about him. We don’t need another one of these.
Unfortunately, as much as I continue to hold SALVADOR, JFK and BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY (and to a lesser extent, PLATOON) in high esteem—he’s made a lot of garbage too though—I know that controversial man divides everyone, even liberals. In this sense, like Michael Moore, his timing and motives will always come under intense scrutiny, for right or wrong.
“Anyway, why should Stone care about how his movie might affect the election?”
Only 7 a.m., and Good Ole Boy already emerges as the frontrunner for today’s Golden WTF Award.
Here I’ve been thinking that “W” was rushed through production for the express purpose of affecting the election. (Shooting wrapped just 2 weeks ago.) Regrettably, the clumsiness of concept and blunt execution looks to be shaping up as a blunder that’ll make The New Yorker cover look positively scintillating.
Ryan, I was just going to say that the whole production of W seemed really rushed. I feel like Brolin was JUST cast in the role a couple of months ago, and now the film is finished and ready for a mid-October release. Stone wanted the film out before the election, that’s for sure.
Salvador is his only half decent movie, Sam. The rest are crappy.
I am ok with the release date.
I don’t know what I think about this film. Part of me does want to see it but part of me doesn’t take Stone’s grand-standing too seriously. Plus, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Bush is not an interesting human being. Nixon, yes. Absolutely. That’s what made the picture work. I like the direction they appear to be going in with W. but at the same time I can’t imagine they’ll be able to sustain it for at least 2 hours.
As for the release, I don’t see how this could affect the election if Bush is leaving the White House. Seems to me that Stone just wants attention. Plus the right-wing pundits don’t have the same power as they used to because they were so dead wrong about Bush, Iraq, etc. So I wouldn’t worry about Obama’s chances just because of this picture.
Richard:
Few if anyone with agree with your dismissal of “JFK” or “BORN ON THE FOURTH” as “crappy.” Geez, if you’re going to make a valid point, why go for that snooty overkill to emerge ahead? I am ADMITTING that 80 to 90% of his films are forgettable, except for these few critically-praised films that you will find got prohibitely favorable reviews by critics you yourself admire. But deep down I know you said this to get me going, as you always do (LOL!) not to make any half-reasonable artistic assessment. Next you’ll be saying that THE SEARCHERS is John Ford’s only “half-way” decent film, while THE GRAPES OF WRATH and THE INFORMER are “crap.”
But you and I are on another level, so we can talk to each other like that. LOL!!!
“Only 7 a.m., and Good Ole Boy already emerges as the frontrunner for today’s Golden WTF Award.”
Dudes…
Golden WTF award? Hmmm, that’s clever. But, it’s not a legitimate response to my question. Why should he care? He has personal (probably selfish) reasons for releasing his film on Oct 17. He also has money and opportunity. What do we have? Opinions and an online blog? Last I checked, this was a free country. He has the power to make his own decisions whether we like it or not. And, what gives your normative claims any more credence than someone who believes the release date is perfect? Even if his intentions were to get this film out before election, I ask again, why should he care how it influences the election?
=============
“If an artist wanted to be really creative they should make a positive film about him.”
Assuming he’s trying to portray Bush as accurately as possible, then whether or not he is portrayed positively or negatively rests squarely on those watching the film. It’s probably safer to assume he is going to portray him negatively. If that’s the case, then one can certainly do that in a creative way too. Sure, there’s been a ton of negative stuff about W, but there is also more room for creative expression of this frustration. Being creative does not entail being original.
For the record, I probably won’t go see the film. I’ve taken a risk on Stone the last few years, and he has disappointed each time.
“I ask again, why should he care how it influences the election?”
Call me an idealist, but one would hope he might consider the precarious nature of this year’s election and the (possible) muddy consequences of his actions above his own ego and eagerness to turn a buck.
In simpler terms: Not giving a shit about the election is the same as not giving a shit about the country.
I used to have enormous respect for Stone as a conscientious filmmaker. Lately, not so much.
(Don’t get excited about the Golden WTF Award. It’s brass, and it’s just a plaque
)
I think symbolically the beginning of the end for Stone wasn’t ALEXANDER, but when in a year when two Hollywood-produced features about 9/11 came out, and Stone’s project was the bland mainstream-friendly melodrama.
Not that I’m saying WORLD TRADE CENTER should have been fuckin LOOSE CHANGE: THE MOVIE, because we sure as hell don’t need that.
What I’m saying is, remember when Stone pushed our buttons, pure emotional manipulation…but fuck, he was good at it. What movie is our definitive cinema on the Stock Market? WALL STREET. What is the definitive tale of men on the ground melodrama during the American-Vietnam War? PLATOON. The definitive Immigrant-Doing-Crime-To-Acheive-American-Dream pulp tale? SCARFACE.* The ultimate capsule of the Baby Boomers’ unresolved issues from their youth? JFK.
*=OK, he only scripted it, but still.
Dude. A brass plaque is certainly an upgrade over what I was expecting, which was nothing.
I understand your position brother. But, remember, we are talking about Oliver Stone here. (The same guy that released a film rampant with JFK conspiracy theory) Clearly, he doesn’t seem too bent on how films might influence elections or shape our opinions regarding the Government in general.
Also, it’s not that he does not care about the election. Perhaps, he doesn’t care who wins, but he might care about the process. He isn’t physically tampering with the results or killing off John McCain. Sure, his movie might influence a few movie goers and make some headlines. But, this doesn’t imply that he doesn’t care about the democratic process of our election system. And, this certainly doesn’t imply that he doesn’t care about our Country. If anything, he embodies the principles of free choice in America; unencumbered by the tyranny of online movie bloggers.
I don’t think its a big deal but maybe that because I’ve already made up my mind as to who I’m going to vote for. Let me say this, if people allow themselves to be swayed one way or another by a film then its safe to say that we are fucked as a country and it won’t matter who is in office. Just my two cents. I’m very cranky this morning.
BTW, Ryan, why is it the GOLDEN WTF Award if its brass? hmmm? got you there didn’t I?!
“…unencumbered by the tyranny of online movie bloggers.”
well, they don’t call me tyryannical for nuthin’ (actually, they don’t, and I hope they don’t start.)
I’m only saying I agree with the Salon writer who wishes we could avoid a few ridiculous news cycles about this movie so close the election. I’d like to turn on the news and hear about something more important on October 18th, that’s all.
We agree on more points than we disagree, Good Ole Boy. I don’t think it’s that big a deal. But it’s a bit of a deal.
You’re gonna force me to reveal the secret of the Golden WTF Award, Alfredo? Fine. It’s dipped in piss before the presentation ceremony.
Sammy, did not say IT to get you going!
Ugh, enough about “W.” Not only will it not affect the election in anyway, but it’ll probably suck too!
You want to talk about a bigger outrage: Did you read estranged daddy dearest Jon Voight’s stomach-churning slanderous attack against Obama in the Washington Times??? That’s about as sickening a thing as I have read this election season! When did this Mr. Deadbeat Dad turn into another right-wing smear merchant??? Is it the bitterness of not getting any of his daughter’s publicity? Isn’t this the same piece of shit who improvised the brilliant anti-war speech in COMING HOME???
How faaaaaaar we’ve fallen. I’m turning in my MIDNIGHT COWBOY action figure (or is it TOY STORY?), and I’m DONE with Voight!
People say right-wingers are a minority in Hollywood. If Voight is any indication, the minority is already TOO MANY of them.
Fair enough Richard, fair enough! LOL!!!!
Xander, I agree 100% with everything you say here about Voight and of teh situation in general. I thank you for the heads-up! What a cretin.
After 8 years of George W. Bush, the last thing I’d want to watch right now is a feature film about “what makes him tick.” But whatever else Oliver Stone is, he’s commercial, so it would make sense to release this before the election. (I don’t see how a film such as this could have any significant political impact either way.)
Stone doesn’t seem to be a detail-oriented type of guy who fusses over the little things, so the rush to get this film out may result in a film that’s even more free-wheeling than it would be if he had taken more time. (Subtlety has never seemed to be Oliver’s strong suit.)
I do admire the impulse to examine the “why” of what made the leader of the Western world the way he is.
As someone who even enjoyed Natural Born Killers, I enjoy Stone’s humorous perspective and have a sort of morbid curiosity about how this one will turn out.
Well, if W. is going to be the major release for October 17th, looks like I can make plans to go on vacation that weekend. Either that or I’ll use the down time to go see a film that actually might be good, like Miracle at St. Anna.
“Isn’t this the same piece of shit who improvised the brilliant anti-war speech in COMING HOME???”
Apparently, he was “brainwashed” at the time. What a piece of work. I forwarded the piece to friends and family with the subject line “No Wonder She Hates Him.”
“No Wonder She Hates Him.”
love it!
No wonder she had to find a mate with some of the coolest DNA on the planet before she risked any skip-a-generation hereditary mishaps.
I think people are missing something here. This is a business. The marketing people at Lionsgate may want to release the movie right before the election to draw more money.
In general, the people that are greenlighting pictures and setting release dates care about ONE thing–MONEY–mainly opening weekend grosses. It doesn’t matter if the picture is good, it doesn’t matter if it effects the election at all. Those are irrelevant. All that matters is the money and finding a hook to get people into the theater. Whether the movie is good or bad, people will be taking about it right before the election and the end of Bush’s term.
It makes sense why people would want it released then. After the election, whoever wins, people will be sick of politics and may not pay to see the movie.
Who cares what Jon Voight — or any celebrity for that matter — thinks about everything? And why would his political views in any way affect how you view him as an actor? I think he’s an idiot but he’s perfectly entitled to his opinion.
The marketing people at Lionsgate may want to release the movie right before the election to draw more money.
This is a very good point. Why are we assuming that the director of a film has control over the release date? I remember an article about the film when it was in pre-production, before it had a buyer, where Stone basically said that a pre-election release date was doable, but he’d have to work really quickly and he might need more time. It seems like being ready before the election was a condition when Lionsgate bought the film.
alynch, probably. This reminds me of when Universal spent extra cash so that Romero could get his LAND OF THE DEAD, shot in the spring of ‘05, into theatres by July.
C’mon, the movie is not going to affect the election one way or another, but it will embarrass the Bush family and cause Bill O’ Reilly’s head to explode, which is something I can totally get behind. Besides, anyone who is STILL listening to those right-wing clowns, after they’ve been wrong about every goddamn thing for the past 8 years, is a lost cause anyway.
The teaser makes the film look wildly entertaining. I’m looking for to seeing it drunk/high and jeering at the screen.
good points, bryansamo & alynch.
I don’t think any of us missed the commercialization and profit motive — note that I described the release date as “opportunistic” — and we all realize that Stone doesn’t dictate his own release dates.
but what does that tell us? the fact is, Stone delivered what a studio demanded, to make it under the wire, to insure maximum media controversy, when he knows he’ll be adding more noise to the dumbing-down of the TV talking head circus for several days at a critical time in US history.
great, so we clearly see his financial motivations. Further evidence that he’s become a sellout and a hack doesn’t exactly inspire me to have high expectations for the movie.
(I will say, “W” looks like Golden Globe bait. HFPA hearts Charlie Wilson’s War — best picture, best actor were two of it’s five GG nominations. The Globes love easy-to-grasp political impersonations.)
“W” could be a heartbreaking work of staggering genius, a modern classic of epic proportions that garners 3 or 4 supporting actor awards (among it’s dozen 5-minute cameos), and the film that resurrects Stone’s carrerr. But somehow I’m not hopeful. Don’t let my skepticism spoil anybody’s anticipation though. It’s just my personal impression.
I think the release date is crass. You guys do a fine job explaining how being crass is a time-honored pathway to profits. Thanks for focusing the spotlight on the road Stone has chosen to ride down. We’d hate for him to stumble in the dark.
“(I don’t see how a film such as this could have any significant political impact either way.)”
Really?
Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, etc., will pull out all the stops when it gets down to the wire and Obama looks like the winner. They will search for ANYTHING to exploit and spin in a last ditch effort to smear the Left. And here Ollie goes and drops a big, fat Christmas present wrapped in shit directly into their hungry laps.
Sure, it may not change people’s votes, but it WILL serve to polarize people in a time when we’re already as polarized as we’ve ever been.
Do I think that means Stones-for-Brains shouldn’t get to make, market, and release whatever film he chooses? Nope. But I do think the timing sucks Oliver’s stones.
“Really?”
Yeah, really.
[...] a fair point, one Ryan Adams at Awards Daily takes up as well. “In the final days before the election we should be focused on the future, [...]
Guys, remember last year with REDACTED? Nobody really gave a fucking shit about that movie, but then O’Reilly and those guys went batshit ballistic, and gave it tons of free press…
My point is, if those goons had simply ignored REDACTED, it would have died quietly. Instead, their “objection”* made it actually known to people who otherwise wouldn’t have known of it, or gave a shit about it.
*=Off-topic, and yeah I’m a DePalma-phile, but REDACTED was a mess. When a fan of BLACK DAHLIA can’t defend it, you know DePalma dropped the ball.
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