Via Salon.com’s Broadsheet, comes this essay in the NYTimes, It‚Äôs Not You, It‚Äôs Your Books, exploring the phenomenon of relationship-killing incompatibility standards based on personal reading habits: “when a missed ‚Äî or misguided ‚Äî literary reference makes it chillingly clear that a romance is going nowhere fast.”
When it comes to online dating, even casual references can turn into deal breakers. Sussing out a date’s taste in books is “actually a pretty good way — as a sort of first pass — of getting a sense of someone,” said Anna Fels, a Manhattan psychiatrist and the author of “Necessary Dreams: Ambition in Women’s Changing Lives.” “It’s a bit of a Rorschach test.”
…Let‚Äôs face it ‚Äî this may be a gender issue. Brainy women are probably more sensitive to literary deal breakers than are brainy men. (Rare is the guy who‚Äôd throw a pretty girl out of bed for revealing her imperfect taste in books.) After all, women read more, especially when it comes to fiction. ‚ÄúIt‚Äôs really great if you find a guy that reads, period,‚Äù said Beverly West, an author of ‚ÄúBibliotherapy: The Girl‚Äôs Guide to Books for Every Phase of Our Lives.‚Äù Jessa Crispin, a blogger at the literary site Bookslut.com, agrees. ‚ÄúMost of my friends and men in my life are nonreaders,‚Äù she said, but ‚Äúnow that you mention it, if I went over to a man‚Äôs house and there were those books about life‚Äôs lessons learned from dogs, I would probably keep my clothes on.‚Äù
I’m guilty of the same hookup discrimination. How about you guys? Is there a DVD you’d see on a date’s shelf that would have you texting for a Rescue Ring? How about the reverse? Is there a movie title you typically pull out as your ace in the hole (so to speak). Name-dropping a movie title as the wily coyote of cuddle-lingus to help you get laid? Slumming in the action aisle to scope out the machosexual jocks, or flaunting a predilection for foreign films like fanning your metrosexual peacock tail?
What’s the deal-breaker movie that would wreck any hopes of living happily ever after?
Its vision is to enable youth to become leaders for social change by facilitating their participation in effective decision making. ,
I know I’m really late to this talkback, but I thought I’d share a related anecdote:
I knew this girl through friends. She was really nice, had a pretty good sense of humor, and seemed to have her head on straight. That is, until we wound up at my place. All of a sudden, this girl starts panning my DVD collection one by one. She used words like “hated” and “horrible” to describe some of the best movies ever. Here’s some films this girl “hated”:
Once – “I thought it was so boring”
Pulp Fiction – “Ugh, I HATED this movie”
The Shawshank Redemption – “SOO boring”
One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest – “..like the most boring movie I’ve ever seen”
Full Metal Jacket – “Didn’t get it”
The list goes on and on and on and on. Suffice to say I never called her back. But, truth be told, I didn’t shun this girl because of her taste (although that made it a hell of a lot easier). I didn’t call again because she decided to verbally berate my own taste in films right in front of me (on the first date!). You gotta have some nerve to show up at someone’s house and just start criticizing all the things they love for virtually no reason. Even if she felt this rudeness was somehow provoked by an unsatisfactory date (which I doubt), it still shows poor taste, especially for someone with such poor taste in film.
I was on a date with someone and we got talking about movies, and she said in a very diminutive way “I bet you’re one of those people who liked Donnie Darko.” She then proceeded to rail against the film. It was at this point that I realized there wouldn’t be a second date.
re: limeymcfrog
fair enough.
with friends that exhibit really bad movie taste, i tend to avoid the subject altogether. there are LOTS of other things on which to base relationships. HOWEVER, when movies do come up, i have to hold myself back when someone (usually younger–20/30somethings) says they can’t watch B/W movies or seem to be oblivious to anything made before 1980. they miss so much, and they have so little background to draw from when they are assessing recent works. they may have heard of Cary Grant or Katharine Hepburn, but can’t admit to actually sitting down and watching any of their films. that’s sad.
another thorn in my side is the person who says they “just can’t watch” UNITED 93, expressing that it would be too upsetting. i’ve never understood that. it’s such a wussy, cop-out, over-dramatic stance to take. people seem to shy away from works that directly affect their emotions. tragedy used to have an important place in the arts–but now all is irony, stupid comedy and ultra/meaningless violence.
Alas, Sam, many of us do get hung up on such things. I’ve been fortunate in that my friends and I share similar tastes. I could not fathom befriending, let alone loving, someone with whom I did not have a strong coincidence of interests. That goes for all sorts of things. I could never befriend a conservative, Evangelical Republican (doubt one would be interested in befriending a long-haired agnostic liberal) b/c I couldn’t talk to him/her without wanting to throttle them. Neither would I be able to befriend someone who didn’t enjoy reading (what matters less than whether or not he/she actually reads).
As I see it, what a person likes to read and watch tells something about who they are and if I could get along with them. My friends are all younger than me (2-4 years or so) and have less experience with the kind of indie films I’ve come to enjoy but display no hostility toward such works and will often rent them on DVD on my reccomendation. Meanwhile, through them I’ve come to appreciate blockbusters that are well-done (and they’ve saved me from seeing awful ones on several occasions).
matthew,
No venom intended, I just thought the crash hate could be better explained by a crash fan who’s been in far too many arguments and thus has a good handle on what it stems from.
I think it’s pretty shallow and nitpicky to ditch a significant other because of their movie tastes. Or friends, for that matter. All my close friends don’t love the same movies that I do. I have some that appreciate the Oscar, indie and more artistic movies, and others that won’t watch anything but Blockbusters.
Some times the conversations we have can get a bit silly and heated. I remember my roomate priding himself on liking “thinking” movies, yet he hated “No Country For Old Men” but thought “Paycheck” was a masterwork. I remember thinking this was kind of funny.
But being so biased and outspoken about movies can really drive a wedge between otherwise good relationships. In short, being too much of a snob can make you look like a real jerk. Sometimes it’s best to talk about movies you agree on, and lightly discuss the ones you don’t, but don’t harp on it too much. After all, they’re just movies. A disagreement on them won’t end the world, and it shouldn’t end a friendship/relationship.
People like movies for different reasons. My girlfriend loves chick flicks, family movies and classics. We have some movies that we agree are awesome (Citizen Kane, The Pixar movies, etc.), but some of them I’ll never get her to see (No Country For Old Men, There Will Be Blood). Some of them I will never get why she liked (Nim’s Island, Wild Hogs).
I think it’s important in a relationship to not let little things like taste in movies or books completely tear you apart. I wouldn’t dwell on them too much, as a relationship is about a whole lot more than that. I think as long as you have some common ground and both parties are willing to give and take, you should be fine.
re: limeymcfrog
I was just answering a question. I didn’t intend to go crash-bashing.
although, I’m still not “over” Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?, so maybe I’ll never get over Crash. So long as people keep liking it I’ll keep hating it.
It’s not the devil, just a bad, bad movie with pretty good intentions.
I’ve slugged it out on these message boards many tims before, and I think I understand it by now. What’s baffling to me is that the Crash haters STILL haven’t gotten over it. Crash has become synonimous with all things terrible.
The problem with Crash is simply this: It got too popular. It went from being a small message flick with an interesting cast to a Best Picture winner and the #1 most rented movie on netflix. Those who already didn’t really like it had months upon months to stew over it and by the end they’re saying it was Triumph of the Will with Plan 9 from Outer Space quality filmmaking. Add to that the perception that the academy voted for it in order to scuttle Brokeback Mountain due to their homophobia (thus, by some strange transitive property unknown to me, making Crash a homophobic movie in their eyes) and there you have it: Crash Hate.
And I liked Hero.
People should like what they like, as long as they like it honestly.
Much more important is, indeed, WHY they like what they like. I’m not gonna run someone down an elitist checklist of movies. But that said, someone’s taste in movies, as with music, books, clothes, SHOES (very important indicator, shoes. Very) point towards who they are and their artistic/not sensibilities. And that is important enough to me.
Fortunately my girlfriend has great taste in everything. Which is why I date her. We do like different things, tho, and if we couldn’t live with that, we’d still be emotionally 12. But I’m very greatful I don’t have to do the Art movie/blockbuster debate each week… don’t think I could handle that. Not that I dislike blockbusters, but…
Movies are a big and imporant experience for me. I need to be able to share them with the person I love.
My sister, who was my good taste icon growing up, liked Cloverfield more than Atonement. And she liked We Own the Night. I am worried about her. At least she loved Into the Wild and NCFOM. Phew
Daniel: I guess the best way to explain all us Crash -haters of the world is to refer you to some of the critics who hated the film. So if you’re truly curious about learning why we despise the movie:
Glen Kenny says:
http://www.premiere.com/moviereviews/2136/crash.html
David Cornelius says:
http://efilmcritic.com/review.php?movie=10448&reviewer=392
BUT…
One thing all us Crash-haters must admit is that Matt Dillon’s acting was top-notch.
Yeah, I had to cure my wife of black-and-whitephobia and she saw the error of her ways. She stopped complaining sometime around when we watched Hud and On The Waterfront, so I’m guessing that Newman and Brando had something to do with that.
Goes to show you that Man-candy works in B&W as well as in color. 😉
I can’t imagine ever dropping someone because they like Epic Movie or John Tucker Must Die, but I might be significantly less excited about them.
However, as I find that my tastes in movies are rather androgynous, any girl who can appreciate a spectrum from manly action and adventure (McQueen movies, Die Hard, Indiana Jones) to more “feminine” romantic comedies (When Harry Met Sally) or musicals (West Side Story), that’s gold in my book. Another big plus, the ability to enjoy silly slapstick like The Pink Panther, Clue or the Marx Brothers without rolling their eyes. Also being open to, if not necessarily enthused about, more serious, artistic movies is a plus.
Oh wait, I thought of a dealbreaker. Being entirely unwilling to watch a movie made before 1980. You don’t have to love old movies, but if you can’t watch a few of them, then we’re gonna have problems.
The bad movies they love is irrelevant, as long as they also love some films I do.
I truly loved a girl who thought that How To Lose A Guy In 10 Days was a great movie and that The Phantom of the Opera (starring Gerad Butler!!!) was quality film making, but you see she also loved Some Like It Hot and The Lord of the Rings films and Raising Arazona and The Princess Bride and more to the point she was always willing to give anything a go.
Anything, anything at all.
However if a girl thinks she has the right to illegally download films, that its a good thing to have one over the “big companies” then thats arguement time and if she can’t be conivinced that its the little people who lose their jobs that pirating is hurting(true this arguement mainly true for the music industry, but still), not the millionaires who still get their paypacket then its dump time.
Film tastes are one thing, morals are another.
Also I’ll admit that I’ve commited the crime of altering my top 5 movie list from girl to girl. I’ll never claim to love a film that I don’t, but I have said that Annie Hall is one of 5 favourite films when it is fact probably more like one of my 25 favourites, when its been clear that thats the type of film a girls interested in. If a girl is clealry a bogie fan then suddenly Casablanca gets a little promotion, or if shes a noir chick then up goes Double Indemnity. However there is one thing I never alter and that is that Raiders of the Lost Ark is my all time favourite film, if she finds that a deal breaker then it was never meant to be.
I had an almost girlfriend that liked way too many cookie cutter romantic comedies, Drove me nuts watching them. I also will bolt the minute anyone wants to watch The English Patient and Crash.
My deal breakers:
fan of those awful “spoof” movies of late (Airplane! and its ilk are another matter)
fan of Michael Bay
hates Lord of the Rings
general closemindedness Limey referred to (I like to mix my blockbusters with my indies to avoid monotony or eye damage)
fan of “intelligent design documentaries” or any other right-wing snake oil
thinks SciFi channel original movies are the pinnacle of cinema, rather than fodder for an MST3K evening (this applies to friends as well and may qualify for a call to the paddy wagon).
“and anyone who calls Apatow movies “low-brow” is a fucking idiot with no sense of humor.”
You almost made me spit my drink, but I agree with you on that.
It sucks because most women I know or have been with would always force me to see lame movies with them. Last month I was forced to watch “Fool’s Gold” and “Definitely Maybe.” The relationship ultimately didn’t work out, not because of the movie selection, but because she turned into a ridiculously clingy, crazy person. But, as a film lover, it’s been tough to find someone who… not necessarily shares the same taste, but shares the same love of film.
But I wouldn’t drop someone because of their taste in movies, but I definitely would be less enthused about them. That last woman I dated actually thought “You Got Served” was a decent movie. I should have ended it right there, come to think of it.
Well, I wouldn’t say I’m shallow enough to discriminate against a person based on their movie tastes. Psychologically speaking, a person’s movie tastes could be reflective of their own personality. So while it’s something to keep an eye on, I think it would be more interesting to analyze than off putting.
That said, two annoying qualities would be (1) an inability to explain why you hate a movie, or using one word reviews like boring, stupid, etc (2) an uncompromising nature that wouldn’t even allow you say one thing nice about a production. (If for nothing else to calm a big fight) For example, about Be Kind, Rewind: director Michael Gondry had good intentions.
This was an interesting article, though I can’t help but wonder that anyone who seriously believes this would have major commitment and or control issues.
Well, I wouldn’t reject somebody who has different tastes to be, because that is what I expect, because everybody I know likes different things to me.
It is really hard to find somebody who actually seen Once upon a time in the West or Sideways, but not for Back to the Future and Toy Story 1+2. (Note, these are some of my favourites). But in the Uk, nobody is scared of subtitles (Lives of Others).
Matthew: AHHH! I don’t understand all the Crash hate =P. I actually don’t know anyone in real life who hated the movie. All my friends who saw it at least liked it, my brother liked it, my parents LOVED it, I don’t understand. It baffles me. And people always seem to come back to it on the comments sections no matter what the article is.
If a girl likes Punch-Drunk Love or My Life As A Dog I’m immediately interested. If she says she likes Ozu films I will probably immediately be in love with her.
If she likes Crash, I will probably lose interest quickly. If she likes, say, “intelligent design” documentaries -I will run for the hills. shudder.
@ limeytcfrog:
That’s what the people I know say as well (among other things), which I then disagree with, and then *they* disagree with me and then we start viciously arguing ’til one of us gets the upper hand. Oh happy days… :p
But to be pretty honest, the soundtrack by James Newton Howard was the best I heard in 2006. Shame on the Academy for not nominating it for the award.
I don’t know what to make of this piece. Loving Robin Williams is about the only thing that comes to mind. That is just bad news.
By the way Ryan, I answered some of your questions back in the Stop-Loss comments.
god u ppl are pretentious. u mention stuff like life as house and shawshank as deal breakers when im sitting here thinking norbit and epic movie would be the ones that make me run away. and anyone who calls Apatow movies “low-brow” is a fucking idiot with no sense of humor.
You’ve found one Leo. I thought Lady in the Water was overall rather pretentious, and dull… But I still loved it because of Paul Giamatti’s performance. (the “healing” scene in particular) I think his work with a rather subpar script was overlooked that year. That’s one my wife and I agree on.
And I totally agree with Pearl Harbor as another deal breaker.
I would also like to say that I am against people who are indie-insular as well as those who only watch the big budget films. Those who refuse to watch Star Wars because it isn’t “realistic” annoy me just as much as those that won’t see a movie unless its star was on the cover of TMZ. Close-mindedness in general, be it to either extreme, is extermely unattractive.
I don’t know if I’d give the cold shoulder to someone who has a different taste from mine. I mean, if they were passionate about their choices, it would be okay, I guess, because I like debating movies. I know people who actually *like* “Lady In The Water” and are effusive about it, so it would be kinda cool to come across one of those people by chance.
It’s a matter of passion, I think. The real dealbreaker for me would be finding that the other person doesn’t care about movies at all, *especially* on first dates, because that’s usually the subject I fall back on (sort of a “confort zone”) when I don’t know what else to say.
My husband and I have completely different tastes in movies. My favorite movie is Eternal Sunshine, his is Cool Runnings. When I wanted to go see the Hours, I got vetoed and we went to watch National Security instead. Oscar season is nothing but constant amusement — I drag him to see period pieces like Atonement (not that I necessarily like them… but I think it’s hilarious how much he hates them).
on another topic: listen to Zooey Deschanel’s new CD, SHE & HIM. A knockout. Unbelievably FRESH!
Sartre, Great Gracho line…those wonderful Marx Bros!
Grease 2. When I see that on the shelf I’m gone in 60 seconds (which is actually another deal breaker)
I liked Life As a House, as well. Didn’t love it, but I liked it.
Anyway, I’ll sometimes mention certain combinations of movies and watch her reaction. If I’ve mentioned Eternal Sunshine (my #1) along with Hot Shots Part Deux and A History of Violence, and she hasn’t run out of the door…then she’s a good one 🙂
Pearl Harbor… if you like it, it’s gonna be hard for me to like you.
Right, I think it’s not so much a specific movie than it is rampant phillistinism that most of us can’t tolerate. My friend who has seen over 3,000 films and claims the russian film “Cranes are Flying” as his favorite film is also a fan of the utterly terrible Prinze jr.- Stiles teen rom-com “Down to You”. So long as they have taste, and don’t just eat kitty litter and think it’s fois gras…
Fun post and discussion.
I think when I was younger it was much more important for the men I dated to have similar movie tastes. Now I find that differences actually make it more interesting. My boyfriend and I are in a similar taste range on most films, but we don’t always see eye to eye. For instance, he liked “Death at a Funeral” last year. I thought it was pretty dumb (though it had its moments).
On the other hand, I’m a self-proclaimed “Lord of the Rings” fanatic and so far he’s only watched about halfway through “The Two Towers.” Of course it would be nice if he could come to appreciate the films (and I love seeing a film I love through the eyes of someone else), but what he thinks about those films really doesn’t matter to our relationship in the long run.
As important as films (or books) are to me, the specific taste of my boyfriend is actually less significant than the fact that he has films and other art that he’s passionate about. It’s fun to share those things and even argue about the differences.
I was supposed to see Once with the boy this summer. An hour before he called and asked if we could see Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer instead. I have never recovered.
I also feel like differing movie tastes is much more significant than book tastes. With books, even if you disagree about genres you can at least read together and not offend the other. Movies are much more of a social event and I could not handle having to fight about art house vs. blockbuster every week.
Ryan, Sasha, who are these people who keep spamming up the site and the comment boards with only links and self-advertizements? I’m sorta getting tired of it.
Also, anyone ever heard the story that Quentin Tarantino would make all his girlfriends watch RIO BRAVO? Those that dig it, he stays with. They hate it, he ditches them.
But what if a girl likes EL DORADO? Does she have to watch BRAVO?
I don’t think there’s a single movie that would have me running for the hills, but I probably wouldn’t be back if I saw the guy had only “blockbusters” (or worse, only Apatow and co. lowbrow comedies) and not a single “serious/intelligent” (i.e. an adult fall release) film.
Would also stay away from a guy who only has downloaded movies and no originals.
Brownie points to a guy who will watch (without complaining about the subtitles) any movie in its original language with me! (be that English or other).
I totally get “nostalgic” movies though… if it marked you as a kid/youth and got you hooked on movies, it’s something to be grateful for! examples from my shelf: the Goonies, Indiana Jones, Willow, the Princess Bride…. ;o)
Yeah! It’s why they love that movie and not what movies they love.
I love and totally enjoyed Dirty Love because when I watched it I can totally relate with the movie.
Those who are so picky and dump guys because they love Heroes and Shawshank Redemption are usually end up alone and lonely.
Any girl who instinctively wants to see any movie with wedding in the title… that’s a deal breaker. However, The Perfect Storm is probably my ultimate deal breaker.
I’m married though, so no new deals have been made. My wife’s worst crime is loving the crappy campy 80’s movies she loved as a kid (Troop Beverly Hills) and I allow that as a kind of nostalgia. So long as she can watch and apppreciate “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre” as well.
Go to any internet dating site, and see how many men list ‘The Shawshank Redemption’ as their favourite movie, or an indicator of their preferred genre. Hardly the worst movie out there, but some imagination please! At least the guys who admit their favourite movie is Hero by Jet Li are being honest – the Shawshank guys seem to be just grasping for something that makes them look manly, yet sensitive.
They tend to be the same guys who just don’t get it when you say Morgan Freeman is only doing movies where he can do a voiceover now.
*meekly raises hand* Noah, I truly liked Life As a House…
Thank you, Frederic. You’re so sweet.
My day is made…
You know, a guy can love any movie, but it’s why they love it that’s important to me. If his favourite film is Glitter but he loves it for its craptastic camp value that’s something, if he loves it because it’s a moving and well-acted drama, *ahem* show me the door.
Miranda seems to be a material girl. She is my kind of woman i think. Unfortunately we are living 4,000 miles apart, and i shall never come close to her for an in-depth silent conversation, even with all my efforts.
More seriously, this article is a great idea. Thanks to Ryan.
I don’t have deal-breakers, but a couple of deal-clinchers; any gal with “Dead Poets Society” on her shelf is my kind of woman!
My dealbreaker is anybody who actually likes the film “Life as a House.” Believe me, these people exist and they seem really normal at first glance but they almost always turn out to be crazy.
Groucho Marx
I chased a girl for two years only to discover that her tastes were exactly like mine: We were both crazy about girls.
That’s truly funny as evidenced by Chad’s post. I much prefer the American remake of Breathless to its French counterpart and I’ve been trying to find it in widescreen for years.
Shoot me now. Guess I’m not a purist.
Articles like this one always amuse me. I think you can easily figure out what kind of person someone is (and what sort of tastes they have) after a few in depth conversations or a couple of dates. If not, then I don’t think you’re asking the right questions.
Things don’t have to be perfect and nothing lasts forever. The thing that kills me is that articles like this are so preciously sexist in their assumption that women are more “discriminating”. Uh, women are often more pragmatic than guys in LOTS of ways.
Have to know what you’re doing. But if the chemistry is there and you genuinely find their tastes off putting, then I imagine that you don’t really want to paint the town red.
So to speak.
I was forced on a date with a guy who’s favorite movie of all time was Hero with Jet Li. He spent all night trying to convince me on how totally awesome it was.
“A shelf full of Catherine Breillat films (I would run for the door)
ha, Chad!
snatch up a couple of cats on your way out.
Save the kitties!
Slayton, a good first date tactic is to hand your guy the remote, and as he circles the channels you wait to see where the Wheel of Fortune lands.
Lol, I totally agree about the Catherine Breillat one.
I don’t really have any hang-ups, but anyone who actually thinks ‘10,000 BC’ is a *good film* is automatically out the door.
I met the most awesome guy and we went on our first date today, and our tastes seem to match perfectly. I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop, now. :S
Top 3 “wrecker” films:
1. Peter Jackson’s King Kong (they can own it, but they can’t love it)
2. The American remake of Breathless starring Richard Gere
3. A shelf full of Catherine Breillat films (I would run for the door)