(Thanks to Tero!)
(Thanks to Tero!)
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I agree with you when it comes to pure genre movies, Tero. The music in Jaws is a major contributor to building up suspense. That is a fact. When a movie is more entertainment-oriented a score always strikes me as much more welcome, because it seems a natural way to underline what is already obvious. And obviousness is a big part of entertainment.
But in art films music is seldom needed, yet many directors tend to overuse it anyway. Which is a shame, because as steve 50 says, it “gets in the way” of a more profound, “pure” aesthetic experience. I just basically like movies that are unmediated by an “exterior” media like music. Even though, naturally, the medium of movies is artificial to begin with.
I agree with you when it comes to pure genre movies, Tero. The music in Jaws is a major contributor to building up suspense. That is a fact. When a movie is more entertainment-oriented a score always strikes me as much more welcome, because it seems a natural way to underline what is already obvious. And obviousness is a big part of entertainment.
But in art films music is seldom needed, yet many directors tend to overuse it anyway. Which is a shame, because as steve 50 says, it “gets in the way” of a more profound, “pure” aesthetic experience. I just basically like movies that are unmediated by an “exterior” media like music. Even though, naturally, the medium of movies is artificial to begin with.
Well, I guess I will never understand this, but that’s my problem then. For someone who thinks Williams is the best film composer, being grandiose is a welcomed feature. Take Jaws – I can’t think of that movie without the menacing tunes that tell the viewer that something is about to happen. Take Star Wars – watch that movie without sound and it looks quite ridiculous (the music makes the movie look more professional), and this is something I do all the time. I “study” films by watching them without sound.
I understand that Williams was mostly absent in Schindler’s List, but there was still 70 minutes worth of music in it – percentage-wise it’s not much when we usually hear him 90% of the movie. This movie is a good example of something to watch without sound, but here the credit should go to Janusz Kaminski.
Well, I guess I will never understand this, but that’s my problem then. For someone who thinks Williams is the best film composer, being grandiose is a welcomed feature. Take Jaws – I can’t think of that movie without the menacing tunes that tell the viewer that something is about to happen. Take Star Wars – watch that movie without sound and it looks quite ridiculous (the music makes the movie look more professional), and this is something I do all the time. I “study” films by watching them without sound.
I understand that Williams was mostly absent in Schindler’s List, but there was still 70 minutes worth of music in it – percentage-wise it’s not much when we usually hear him 90% of the movie. This movie is a good example of something to watch without sound, but here the credit should go to Janusz Kaminski.
I don’t know that it’s so much that it “go unnoticed”, but the score should not “get in the way.” Big difference.
I don’t know that it’s so much that it “go unnoticed”, but the score should not “get in the way.” Big difference.
I get your point, but I don’t agree with it. I thought about my favourite composers and all of them are quite visible. I also thought about some of the greatest films, and they seem to have an original score (or songs/classical pieces in some cases) playing a major part.
Someone said that the best score is something that goes unnoticed. Maybe it was not a composer who said that.
I get your point, but I don’t agree with it. I thought about my favourite composers and all of them are quite visible. I also thought about some of the greatest films, and they seem to have an original score (or songs/classical pieces in some cases) playing a major part.
Someone said that the best score is something that goes unnoticed. Maybe it was not a composer who said that.
PS: Caché is a good case in point, and Haneke is my favorite director, so that makes sense.
Tero and Ryan: To me, music in movies is something that too often makes me aware that I’m supposed to feel something particular when I’m watching a movie. I don’t like that. It makes me sort of meta-conscious of the fact that what I’m doing is a approaching a product rather than having a genuine experience. I don’t know, that’s just how I feel. Of course I’m exaggerating; the use of music in The Social Network is a minor masterstroke because it goes so well with Fincher’s vision and the editing specifically.
But when you are the kind of person who so very much prefers Bergman to Spielberg, maybe you just have a natural inclination not find scores a bit silly, or downright damaging to the medium of film?
What I find brilliant and liberating about Mad Men is its insistent (or just natural) suit of not using music until the end credits appear (and then, it is often inspired choices that are congenial to the theme of the episode).
No music heightens my perception of what I’m watching. It’s simple as that. There is no unnecessary medium getting in the way of my immediate response to the images and the narrative unfolding before my eyes.
Consider the score for a movie like Notes On A Scandal (by the very esteemed, or so I’m told, Philip Glass). To me that score is a rape on an otherwise intelligent and finely acted movie. The music never settles for playing second fiddle (so to speak), it has to intrude on every single frame and make me all too conscious about how to engage with the narrative. That is a “dumbing down” of the beautiful art of movies. And, sadly, you see it far too often.
PS: Caché is a good case in point, and Haneke is my favorite director, so that makes sense.
Tero and Ryan: To me, music in movies is something that too often makes me aware that I’m supposed to feel something particular when I’m watching a movie. I don’t like that. It makes me sort of meta-conscious of the fact that what I’m doing is a approaching a product rather than having a genuine experience. I don’t know, that’s just how I feel. Of course I’m exaggerating; the use of music in The Social Network is a minor masterstroke because it goes so well with Fincher’s vision and the editing specifically.
But when you are the kind of person who so very much prefers Bergman to Spielberg, maybe you just have a natural inclination not find scores a bit silly, or downright damaging to the medium of film?
What I find brilliant and liberating about Mad Men is its insistent (or just natural) suit of not using music until the end credits appear (and then, it is often inspired choices that are congenial to the theme of the episode).
No music heightens my perception of what I’m watching. It’s simple as that. There is no unnecessary medium getting in the way of my immediate response to the images and the narrative unfolding before my eyes.
Consider the score for a movie like Notes On A Scandal (by the very esteemed, or so I’m told, Philip Glass). To me that score is a rape on an otherwise intelligent and finely acted movie. The music never settles for playing second fiddle (so to speak), it has to intrude on every single frame and make me all too conscious about how to engage with the narrative. That is a “dumbing down” of the beautiful art of movies. And, sadly, you see it far too often.
“No music is movies? Well, tough luck. It can’t be taken out cause it was there from the beginning.” -Tero
Two of my most favorite films from the last 10 years had no score (Caché and Y Tu Mamá También. Okay…Y Tu Mamá También had some songs in it, but I think Caché had no music whatsoever). I do think that music generally makes films better (as evidenced by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2K-YedETiI ), but there are some films like Caché that are fine even without music.
“No music is movies? Well, tough luck. It can’t be taken out cause it was there from the beginning.” -Tero
Two of my most favorite films from the last 10 years had no score (Caché and Y Tu Mamá También. Okay…Y Tu Mamá También had some songs in it, but I think Caché had no music whatsoever). I do think that music generally makes films better (as evidenced by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2K-YedETiI ), but there are some films like Caché that are fine even without music.
I exaggerated, cause everybody else is. Who’s gonna take the bullet? Not my sister. John is.
You are also exaggerating. No music is movies? Well, tough luck. It can’t be taken out cause it was there from the beginning. Sure, it is the most unrealistic part. If I was making a realistic picture I wouldn’t use any music. It never plays when I’m walking on the street. I also wouldn’t use any editing – no-one cuts my street-walking shorter.
A completely realistic picture cannot be made unless you take a camera and shoot the film in real time without any cuts, no extra music, no actors etc… Documentaries are as much a lie as fictional ones.
A completely realistic picture cannot be made unless you take a camera and shoot the film in real time without any cuts, no extra music, no actors etc…
To be completely realistic, films cannot be in black-and-white either.
If I had to choose between making movies more like real life or the other way around, I wouldn’t mind test-driving a few months when everybody around me was an actor and all the boring parts could be edited out. But we can already have John Williams and other film composers provide the background score to our daily routine, thanks to iPods. I’m with Tero — life feels richer with movie music.
I exaggerated, cause everybody else is. Who’s gonna take the bullet? Not my sister. John is.
You are also exaggerating. No music is movies? Well, tough luck. It can’t be taken out cause it was there from the beginning. Sure, it is the most unrealistic part. If I was making a realistic picture I wouldn’t use any music. It never plays when I’m walking on the street. I also wouldn’t use any editing – no-one cuts my street-walking shorter.
A completely realistic picture cannot be made unless you take a camera and shoot the film in real time without any cuts, no extra music, no actors etc… Documentaries are as much a lie as fictional ones.
A completely realistic picture cannot be made unless you take a camera and shoot the film in real time without any cuts, no extra music, no actors etc…
To be completely realistic, films cannot be in black-and-white either.
If I had to choose between making movies more like real life or the other way around, I wouldn’t mind test-driving a few months when everybody around me was an actor and all the boring parts could be edited out. But we can already have John Williams and other film composers provide the background score to our daily routine, thanks to iPods. I’m with Tero — life feels richer with movie music.
I don’t give a flying fuck about a John Williams score, to be frank. Does that make me ignorant? Sue me.
I will repeat this to the day I die: movies are better without scores…there, I said it.
Now, let’s go to sleep…
Ps. Tero, I treasure you as a (very) frequent contributor to this site (and I know we agree on a lot of stuff), but this is beyond me. Loving Williams more than your sister and her kids…really? Well, some days I guess I feel just about the same when it comes to David Bowie…;)
I don’t give a flying fuck about a John Williams score, to be frank. Does that make me ignorant? Sue me.
I will repeat this to the day I die: movies are better without scores…there, I said it.
Now, let’s go to sleep…
Ps. Tero, I treasure you as a (very) frequent contributor to this site (and I know we agree on a lot of stuff), but this is beyond me. Loving Williams more than your sister and her kids…really? Well, some days I guess I feel just about the same when it comes to David Bowie…;)
And Jeremie, Williams CAN compete with that. He can compose something like this in his sleep.
You are now just trying to make people angry.
And Jeremie, Williams CAN compete with that. He can compose something like this in his sleep.
You are now just trying to make people angry.
“There is only one Tintin’s score and it’s this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_EK_tFz9ug”
What you said is probably true for Europeans your age who grew up with the TV show, but I think the younger generation and non-European audiences who haven’t formed any attachment to the Tintin TV show couldn’t care less. I’m sure that theme became iconic because kids back then heard it again and again. In terms of quality, it’s not necessarily better than the stuff in the film’s soundtrack although it may sound better to some people because of nostalgia.
It’s true that Spielberg won’t be able to “erase memories” with his adaptation, but there really isn’t a need for him to do so. I’m sure the majority of people is capable of enjoying two different adaptations.
“There is only one Tintin’s score and it’s this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_EK_tFz9ug”
What you said is probably true for Europeans your age who grew up with the TV show, but I think the younger generation and non-European audiences who haven’t formed any attachment to the Tintin TV show couldn’t care less. I’m sure that theme became iconic because kids back then heard it again and again. In terms of quality, it’s not necessarily better than the stuff in the film’s soundtrack although it may sound better to some people because of nostalgia.
It’s true that Spielberg won’t be able to “erase memories” with his adaptation, but there really isn’t a need for him to do so. I’m sure the majority of people is capable of enjoying two different adaptations.
Jeremie, I am not American – as you know. Williams is who I LOVE TO DEATH. Only my mother is someone I love more, my sister and her kids come AFTER Williams.
Jeremie, I am not American – as you know. Williams is who I LOVE TO DEATH. Only my mother is someone I love more, my sister and her kids come AFTER Williams.
It’s funny how American audiences think that theme will become iconic. There is only one Tintin’s score and it’s this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_EK_tFz9ug
As it will always be remembered by million of Europeans who grew-up with the TV show. Williams can’t compete with that, and Spielberg’s million won’t erase memories either.
It’s funny how American audiences think that theme will become iconic. There is only one Tintin’s score and it’s this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_EK_tFz9ug
As it will always be remembered by million of Europeans who grew-up with the TV show. Williams can’t compete with that, and Spielberg’s million won’t erase memories either.
I saw the Maestro with the NY Philharmonic on Tuesday night last; what a wonderful night of movie music!!
Back in the UK now, I’ve seen Tintin. It’s good fun and Williams is back in Indy territory with a great score.
Cant wait to hear War Horse.
I saw the Maestro with the NY Philharmonic on Tuesday night last; what a wonderful night of movie music!!
Back in the UK now, I’ve seen Tintin. It’s good fun and Williams is back in Indy territory with a great score.
Cant wait to hear War Horse.
There will never be another John Williams. End of story. I cherish each new score like it might be the last. The greatest.
There will never be another John Williams. End of story. I cherish each new score like it might be the last. The greatest.
@PS – I think that theme is the heroic tintin theme. He also has another theme though I love the one at the end of Pursuit of the Falcon!
@PS – I think that theme is the heroic tintin theme. He also has another theme though I love the one at the end of Pursuit of the Falcon!
I’ve listened to it twice now, and some of the themes are now stuck in my head. I really like the theme that receives a grand statement at the 0:59 mark of Track 6 (The Escape from Karaboudjan) and again at 4:17 of Track 14 (Pursuit of the Falcon). I’m assuming that is Tintin’s main theme because it appears in half the tracks and is not attributable to the other characters. It’s a very catchy tune. It’s a great theme and has the potential to become iconic. Hopefully Williams’ will give us a concert arrangement of that theme in the sequel.
I’ve listened to it twice now, and some of the themes are now stuck in my head. I really like the theme that receives a grand statement at the 0:59 mark of Track 6 (The Escape from Karaboudjan) and again at 4:17 of Track 14 (Pursuit of the Falcon). I’m assuming that is Tintin’s main theme because it appears in half the tracks and is not attributable to the other characters. It’s a very catchy tune. It’s a great theme and has the potential to become iconic. Hopefully Williams’ will give us a concert arrangement of that theme in the sequel.
“Williams fans are getting overdosed nowadays. Was about time, though”
Exactly how I feel. As a member of the brass section in band, it was mandatory that you love John Williams. I love his scores that have the jazzy element that some of these Tin Tin tracks are showing off (but Superman is still my favorite theme song of his).
“Williams fans are getting overdosed nowadays. Was about time, though”
Exactly how I feel. As a member of the brass section in band, it was mandatory that you love John Williams. I love his scores that have the jazzy element that some of these Tin Tin tracks are showing off (but Superman is still my favorite theme song of his).
I’m just asking that ’cause IDK which way the Academy’ll go for Williams.
As much as I love JW, the Tintin score was hit-or-miss for me.
I’m just asking that ’cause IDK which way the Academy’ll go for Williams.
As much as I love JW, the Tintin score was hit-or-miss for me.
@ Squirrelman
No, there’s no such restriction as far as I’m aware. Six years ago, Williams himself was nominated for both Memoirs of a Geisha and Munich.
@ Squirrelman
No, there’s no such restriction as far as I’m aware. Six years ago, Williams himself was nominated for both Memoirs of a Geisha and Munich.
Tero, there is no such thing as an overdosage of John Williams. 😀
Also, that War Horse track. WOW.
If he doesn’t get nomination #46 for this, I’ll be shocked.
Quick question: Can he get nominated for both Tintin AND War Horse? Or is there a limit to one nomination per composer per year?
Tero, there is no such thing as an overdosage of John Williams. 😀
Also, that War Horse track. WOW.
If he doesn’t get nomination #46 for this, I’ll be shocked.
Quick question: Can he get nominated for both Tintin AND War Horse? Or is there a limit to one nomination per composer per year?
I don’t think Tintin will be nominated, but Williams will get his 46th nomination with War Horse. He saved the “themes” for the latter.
I don’t think Tintin will be nominated, but Williams will get his 46th nomination with War Horse. He saved the “themes” for the latter.
Williams fans are getting overdosed nowadays. Was about time, though.
Williams fans are getting overdosed nowadays. Was about time, though.
Hover, here’s my favourite War Horse track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoJktMmcr-4
We’ll post the War Horse tracks later today — I wanted to leave some space between the two films.
Hover, here’s my favourite War Horse track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoJktMmcr-4
We’ll post the War Horse tracks later today — I wanted to leave some space between the two films.
I hope it isn’t disqualified from Academy consideration due to the use and adaptation of Gounot. Last year, Clint Mansell’s score for Black Swan was disqualified from consideration due to its adaptation of Tchaikovsky, whereas Alexandre Desplat’s score for The King’s Speech was passed due to the fact that it only used music from Mozart and Beethoven, rather than adapting it. The Gounot excerpt only reappears briefly in Track 14, after appearing fully in Track 13, but we all know how inconsistent the AMPAS music branch’s decisions regarding eligibility are. I hope this because I think this is an excellent score.
I hope it isn’t disqualified from Academy consideration due to the use and adaptation of Gounot. Last year, Clint Mansell’s score for Black Swan was disqualified from consideration due to its adaptation of Tchaikovsky, whereas Alexandre Desplat’s score for The King’s Speech was passed due to the fact that it only used music from Mozart and Beethoven, rather than adapting it. The Gounot excerpt only reappears briefly in Track 14, after appearing fully in Track 13, but we all know how inconsistent the AMPAS music branch’s decisions regarding eligibility are. I hope this because I think this is an excellent score.
This must be the most complicated Williams score. Scherzos are cool.
This must be the most complicated Williams score. Scherzos are cool.
Wtf War Horse wasnt even released or leaked yet. Where have you listened to it?
Wtf War Horse wasnt even released or leaked yet. Where have you listened to it?
Seen the movie twice already – love it!
Soundtrack is great too – though doesn’t have an instant theme recognition like Raiders or Harry Potter – you have to search for the themes.
Pursuit of the Falcon is my favourite track (and the highlight of the film): 4:17 when the major heroic theme kicks in is the best!
Not sure it will be nominated for score though, the academy seems to be over the days when they would nominate great adventure scores.
Warhorse is probably a more likely nominee.
If he is nominated that would make it nomination number 46 for Williams!!! The second most ever after Walt Disney (although WIlliams did all his own work!)
Seen the movie twice already – love it!
Soundtrack is great too – though doesn’t have an instant theme recognition like Raiders or Harry Potter – you have to search for the themes.
Pursuit of the Falcon is my favourite track (and the highlight of the film): 4:17 when the major heroic theme kicks in is the best!
Not sure it will be nominated for score though, the academy seems to be over the days when they would nominate great adventure scores.
Warhorse is probably a more likely nominee.
If he is nominated that would make it nomination number 46 for Williams!!! The second most ever after Walt Disney (although WIlliams did all his own work!)
The soundtrack sounds great. It’s very energetic. It’s also quite complex. I’ll have to listen to it at least 3 more times to fully appreciate the minute details. Right now, Track 7 (Sir Francis and the Unicorn) and Track 18 (The Adventure Continues) are my favorite.
I must say…this soundtrack is a great appetizer before the main course.
The soundtrack sounds great. It’s very energetic. It’s also quite complex. I’ll have to listen to it at least 3 more times to fully appreciate the minute details. Right now, Track 7 (Sir Francis and the Unicorn) and Track 18 (The Adventure Continues) are my favorite.
I must say…this soundtrack is a great appetizer before the main course.
Has a bit of a Johnny Williams vibe.
Has a bit of a Johnny Williams vibe.
After Tintin we all can forget about Crystal Skull, right? My…
After Tintin we all can forget about Crystal Skull, right? My…
I love John Williams more than my life. YOUR life is worthless compared to ours!!!
War Horse soundtrack is still the shit. The Homecoming (track #16 apparently) is close to my heart. Listening to it all the time.
Thank you, Ryan. Any exposure for JW on this (or any other) site is GREAT.
I will kill myself when JW dies. No reason to live after Williams.
I love John Williams more than my life. YOUR life is worthless compared to ours!!!
War Horse soundtrack is still the shit. The Homecoming (track #16 apparently) is close to my heart. Listening to it all the time.
Thank you, Ryan. Any exposure for JW on this (or any other) site is GREAT.
I will kill myself when JW dies. No reason to live after Williams.