The movie Bros has disappointed at the box office. But this time, it was too big to ignore. Billy Eichner and others decided the reason was straight people not turning out to see it. It might be that, but it’s also that Hollywood and much of the culture around it is alienated the broader majority, as I keep saying, like a broken record. They’re doing this by focusing on an insulated bubble that mostly exists online. That might translate to streaming platforms pretty well but it doesn’t translate to movie theaters.
The public, by now, has become wary of anything Hollywood puts out for fear of it being what most people call “woke.” That means it will have some kind of “do better” agenda somewhere in there. In simple terms, that means people are coming in for the fish and chips, and they’re getting steamed broccoli and salmon. They’re on to it now so if they think there is a chance that the movie is going to deliver yet another lecture in this era of strident purity and “cancel culture” they are going to stay away.
While it’s true that a good many people probably avoided it for the same reason they avoided LIghtyear – they’re just, not up for it and maybe some of that is due to homophobia — the bigger reason is that Hollywood has shifted its role in society from offering up entertainment to offering up a lecture, or a “correction” for human behavior.
While that sells on social media, where signaling one’s virtue ups their clout, it isn’t going to translate to people who can barely afford to put food on the table or gas in their tank. The broad majority of Americans, don’t have much interest in Hollywood products overall, especially if it means driving to a movie theater, paying for a ticket, and sitting down for two hours without access to their cell phones, not that everyone adheres to that rule. I was in screening the other night, and two people still checked their cell phones. At The Fabelmans.
What will bring people out to the movies? Fun. Anything advertised as “non-woke” will drive ticket sales. I’ll put it to you as plainly as I can: “woke” is not a strong selling point to most Americans. It is better suited to Netflix or another streaming platform. Had Bros screened on Netflix, tons of people would have watched it. It ain’t no big thing to check it out on Netflix. On Netflix, they get people from all over the world.
America is still 95% heterosexual. Women see romcoms to live project themselves into them, to imagine themselves falling in love with a guy or a guy falling in love with them. Men only see romcoms if forced by their girlfriends — in general. It is already such a limited audience base that they barely make them anymore. They’re relegated to streaming and the Hallmark channel.
We’ll see if Julia Roberts and George Clooney can bring back that magic when their rom-com comes out later this month.
The best bet, though, to get audiences to make an effort to pay to see a movie is going to be to broadcast the message that they are leaving politics out of it. I don’t know if that’s possible since celebrities like Roberts and Clooney have become such vocal activists online, which means they bring politics with them anyway.
We’re entering yet another dark period in American life. We might even be going to a hot war with Russia. Inflation is crushing our finances. That makes this not unlike the 1930s when people turned to the movies to feel better, not to feel worse. It isn’t that they didn’t turn out to see Bros as much as they weren’t motivated to go to the movies at all, considering what’s playing.
The marketing and the trailer for Bros focused on the gay part of the story: this is a movie about gay men. I remember there was a series a while back, Looking, about gay men in the dating scene, but it somehow managed to be about them as people, not necessarily only about their identity as gay men. I don’t know if a movie called Looking would have made money right now. I have no idea. But I do know that regardless of what the movie is ACTUALLY about, audiences are now wary of anything Hollywood puts out for fear of it being yet another “do better” lecture. That’s just the plain truth.
The best selling point for Top Gun was just that — it was an agenda-free fun time at the movies. If you want to make money at the box office that is what you have to do. People are inundated as it is with politics all day long everywhere they look. Even if people WANT the public to WANT to see Bros, where cold hard cash is concerned, if they don’t want to, they ain’t gonna.
The best test for that is to ask whether or not both sides of the aisle can watch the movie. If they can, it’s probably going to make money. If they can’t, its audience will be limited. That doesn’t seem that hard. Online engagement usually drives online content, like streaming or TV. It CAN drive box office but only if the branding of the film itself is appealing.
We saw this last year with King Richard and West Side Story. People assumed both came equipped with a “do better” message, even if they didn’t. Hollywood has branded itself that way for the past few years, so have the Oscars. If they want to broaden their reach they are going to have to rebrand so that Americans trust them again. And it’s going to take time. The Fabelmans, I will say, is lecture-free and really a film almost anyone can watch and enjoy, like all Spielberg’s movies. Hopefully, that message can get out before it hits theaters.
Probably Bros will find an audience over time and become a cult classic such that people won’t believe that it didn’t do well at the box office. It’s not the end of the world.
Whenever you take your politics, religion, business “culture” to the ultra extreme you start looking like a cult and turn off the “normies” as the extremes refer to ordinary people who like being ordinary (which describes 80 percent of the population). Just get off my lawn, already. End of. Your Libertarian garbage is turning their lives upside down for no practical reason whatsoever. Consider the coming backlash as “Revenge of the Normies.” Bro.
Here’s why Bros “tanked” at the box-office. It had very little to do with “agenda movies”, “woke-ism” or “homophobia”. Buckle up everybody, time for me to put my 2 cents into this conversation:
1. No major stars. Billy Eichner is famous, but not FAMOUS. A major draw for people is the cast. This movie doesn’t really anybody popular popular in it.
2. Not based on a popular book or television show.
3. Not a remake, requel, sequel, or prequel.
4. It’s not a horror, science fiction or fantasy tale.
Bros is more suited for a Netflix, Amazon, HBO, Hulu, Paramount and Apple audience rather than a moviegoing audience. Romcoms are not necessarily big sellers. That’s just the truth. It has none of the four points being made above. Just imagine if the two stars for Bros were Tom Holland and Harry Styles, we would see a different picture. Ditto if Jennifer Lawrence and Scarlett Johansson were the two leads.
Stone mentioned Top Gun 2, but here’s the kicker. TG2 is a sequel to an extremely popular film and has Tom Cruise running. That was the selling point. The selling point was not, “here’s a movie with no political agenda”. People went to the movie because it was Top Gun.
The very fact the criteria for increasing amount of organisation, esp public ones like Cinema mainstream, like, sporting clubs, like corporations, like damn major councils in my city are hired- or fired based on what their beliefs are rather than their ability to show they have skills to improve organisations appeal to their members and the public this ought to be wake up call for those of you who reckon that ‘woke’ cancel culture is not a clear and present danger to integrity and core value and worth to us of TRUE TRADITIONAL HOLLYWOOD virtues and values ..
Cos it happening right now in capital city of my home state in Victoria, right NOW with Lord Mayor Sally Capp…sure she was elected but she MANIPULATED the democratic system of votingpitching herself as pro-business and bring down ratres for ratepayers but she had hidden agenda she favoured green ideologies and the woke culture..she recently appointed ‘chief heat officers’ so now people are treated under Melbourne’s council as people that need to be TOLD and helped by the hand in important common sense decisions people can do themselves….she phased out car access to city..despite fact our concurrent far left State govt is imposing political correctness and woke ideas in our schools treating kids and parents to deny them the right to choose what they wish to learn or approach to take more independent one on contemporary social issues..why 6 y.o. being manipulated to walk in activist protests on climate change and anti abortion rallies for instance when their young minds need to focus on key core staple skills to equip them eventually for being able to make it themselves achieve their own goals? how is abandoning a day at school to partake in woke leftist activism goinna help them to develop basics for their further schooling? it does NOT it only sets them back..no wonder we becoming a dumber world sometimes i wonder i def not only one..why out of their right mind would the lord mayor seek to phase out cars altogether from the CBD- yet out cbd is right at heart of accessing eastern western suburbs it the nexus nerve centre…sure we need more public transport byut who is our bloody minded lord mayor to judge how many people still NEED to access andf go via city to get to work? NOT EVERYONE USES PUBLIC TRANSPORT YET WE HAVE PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF HIGH POWER AND AUTHORITY TRYING TO BE JUDGE EXECUTIONER AND JURY WHAT IS IS NOT ALLOWED IN OUR CITY..?? CAR TRANSPORT IS PROHIBITED THROUGH CENTRAL MAIN CORRIDOR ACCESS WAYS TO AND FROM THE CITY…under this council and all whil;e public transport expansions NOT ready to fulfill this ambitious goal.
Look i not against gay rights, i not against climate change, i not against to limited degree some of what left advocates for esp with mental health awareness..i not against black peoples rights, etc but since when was it right of PEOPLE IN POWER TO RUN RULE OVER US HOW WE CAN AND CANNOT BEHAVE? WHETHER WE HAVE RIGHT TO DRIVE CAR OUT OF NEED THROUGH THE CITY OR NOT ? HOW WE CHOOSE TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS IN A HEATWAVE NOT BE TOLD BY OTHERS WHAT TO DO?
IF YOU THINK THIS BARES ALARMING RESEMBLANCE TO SICK AND SORRY STATE OF WOKE COMMUNITIES DOMINATION OF AWARDS SEASON AND KEY PART SOF HOLLYWOOD MACHINATIONS YOU DEF NOT WRONG LOOK AT TYPE AND NATURE OF FILMS THAT FAVOURED TIME AND TINME AGAIN..LOOK AT COMMENTARYT WHERE AS SASHA POINTED OUT AN ALARMING AMOUNT OF TIMES FOR SUPPOSED TOLERANT DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE CONSERVATIVE VOICES ARE ATTACKED AND ABUSED BY WOKE BRIGADE JUST COS THE CONSERVATIVE VIEW IS EXPRESSED…SO WHAT IF WOKE DONT LIKE IT? THEY CANNOT PRESUME TO CONTROL WHAT PEOPLE SAY AND HOW THEY THINK? THE HOLLYWOOD PRESS PEOPLE OIN POWER TOO BARE OUGHT TO MASSIVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IS AND EXTENT OF PROBLEMS IN HOLLYWOOD ARE DISCUSSED ESP AWARDS SEASON FAILINGS IT ALL LINKS TO WRONG PEOPLE IN POWER HAVING TOO MUCH CONTROL OVER DIRECTION AND ULTIMATELY OUTCOME OF AWARDS SEASON GOINGS ON AND PROCESSES..WRONG AS IN PEOPLE IN CHARGE UNDERMINE PURPOSEFULLY THE TRADITIONAL BIG STUDIO POPULAR AND CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED FILMS IN FAVOUR OF OBSCURE ISSUE FILMS THA SHINE SPOTLIGHT ON THINGS MOST PEOPLE DO NOT CARTE TO SEE IN CINEMA..AND IT PUBLIC THAT GET IT RIGHT THAT EXACTLY WHY THIS FILM SASHA ARTICLE IS ABOUT WAS FAILURE…
scream louder
see if you can scream until all the gay filmmakers run and hide from your tantrums
Fucking Amsterdam cratered this weekend, earning a laughable $5m on a lavish $80 million budget
Amsterdam catered to straight whites with some of the biggest “heteronormative” movie stars on the planet
Directed by a notorious straight white shithead who ought to understand the bland entertainment demands of the straight white shithead mentality
was Amstedam any good? A couple of smart people on this site say it was fun enough, and I believe them
so why didn’t more than a few thousand straight white shitheads show up for the movie that Disney made for them?
were lowbrow MAGA scared that a movie called Amsterdam would have woke Dutch subtitles?
sepia toned movies suck
i rather stunned by your criticism actually Ryan can you clarify to me what your issue become with what i posted? it not like myposition stance on stuff type of stuff i stand up for is new news to you you known all along why u change in attitude? pls tell me i trying understand you feel i gone too faR? have you had a bad day? I NOT THE ONE gone too far..are you sure you replied to the right person? you misunderstand mate..i am vehem,ently against political correctness perverting the outcomes of oscar contenders in awards season..but that does not make me racist..i think you taken way out of context and given you know me i actually quite offended mate by way you speaking to me you be critical of course..but WHOLE time i been here my views you know you told me yourslef have resonated in thatb i consistent in my position that cancel culture is DESTROYING the very fabirc heart, sould and HISTORY of awards season…to have that view does NOT make me hard nut right winger…i honestly had no idera if you meant in context of film Amsterdam that it has a radical right agenda i think it only fair you clarify to me context your brutal taker down of me here…if i didnt know you it would not huyrt but last thing i EVER AM you REALLY ought to know in this of me by now is i NOT against whatsoever rights of minorities i against majority being disregarded in films considerations for best picture contention there BIG difference i thought you realised this by now ey?
“i honestly had no idera if you meant in context of film Amsterdam”
obviously.
it’s easy to explain.
we get to have a lecture and week-long debate about how a movie like Bros is destroying Hollywood with all its gayness that nobody wants to see — and that’s why nobody bought a ticket to see it, and that’s why “gay wokeness” is the end of cinema.
and then 5 days later Amsterdam burns its $80 million budget up in flames on a movie full of straight white dudes and lots of hot ladies with very cute titties, but we don’t get to hear how Amsterdam alienated MAGA moviegoers.
get it now?
RYAN YOU OWE me and other members here to clarify your uncalled for brutal takedown of me i STRONGLY recommend mandatory you private email me to my email address you have…and then clarify publicly that i do NOT stand for what you implying in your reply…i explained my concenrs direct to your private email but i expect you to clear up record ..here with URGENCY BEFORE others try to chime in and ‘piggyback’ as can happen online to your STRONG non informed theoretical construct thart somehow i become a racist..i sorry i REJECT that entirely..regardless how i frame an argument YOU KNOW ME BETTER THAN THAT i do NOT know whether you had bad day online or not or another member bugged you but i think way you did this piece of criticism try see how i take that very hurtfully you know me and it prudent all of us when speaking or replying direct to individual that rights not to brand them something they not least others start to belief ESP YOU as ytour chief moderator right? got it/ ? remail me in reply firstthen do public retraction of your ill informed untrue representation bout my views or attitude to minorities got it? i am DEEPLY OFFENDED yes you remove this comment of mine if you reply to my email pls see to it wiht urgency i EXPLAINED EVERYTHING to your email direct ok?
NO ONE owes you anything.
ISNT IT BENEATH YOU TO ALONG WITH MINORITY OTHERS TO PRESUME AS ARROGANTLY AS YOU DO TO BE JUDGE EXECUTIONER AND JURY WHEN I ADDRESS CLEARLY IN MY RESPONSE IN THIS INSTANCE SPEAKING TO RYAN NT YOU…SO REALLLY NO COMMMENTS FROM THE PEANUIT GALLERY IT NOT YOUR DAMN BUSINESS BASIC LAW OF ONLINE MSGING THOUGHT YOU SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW OUT OF COURTESY RESPECT…UNLESS PERSON DOES NOT BEGIN THEIR MESSAGE ADDRESSING SPECIFIC PERSON IN REPLY THEN SIMPLY BLUNTLY YOU MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS DUDE….OR MAYBE YOUR ONE THOSE WHERE OVERSIGHT IOF YOUR COP OUT EXCUSE TO JUST COMMENT FROM THE PEANUT GALLERY… you didn’t ‘owe” me a response cos i did not address matters inr esponse or directed to you till NOW michael english!
Well, in truth, I do. I borrowed a hundred from him the last time we hit Kadie’s Saloon.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da61d46cd573674c697ec6316636ffc46c75096358025d809cf556a13106d4a1.gif
o=h and by the way my prior msg WAS CONTROLLED CAPS LOCK USE cos i sick and tired of pple like YOU chiming in cos you got nothing bwetter to do than to tag along on OTHERS BANDWWAGON …suffice to say you not a chief moderator here…
Aaron. Stop it. Good grief. Everyone has moved on from the mess on this page. You’re only drawing attention back to it.
I’ve looked out for you here on this site for over a decade, Aaron. Dozens of times you have asked me to come help you out and I always have.
You wrote:
“THE SORRY STATE OF WOKE COMMUNITIES DOMINATION OF AWARDS SEASON”
First off, typing in ALL CAPS is screaming.
ALL CAPS IN BOLD AND UNDERLINED looks unhinged. I wish you wouldn’t do that, because it doesn’t ever help your image.
Secondly, to hop into the comments about a lighthearted gay rom-com that never had any intention of coming near an Oscar… and scream at us about
Good lord, Aaron. wtf.
Please name the gay filmmakers who are “dominating awards season” who have made you so frantically upset.
Name them, or else calm the fuck down.
But you want a response? Fine.
no I don’t.
LOL, hire a lawyer. See you in court.
I’ve no clue what you’re on about. What am I “implying” about you?
relax. nobody gives near enough shits to chime into this nonsense.
wtf, I never said any such thing.
I’m discovering that I don’t know you as well as I thought I did, my friend.
how much do I owe you for this unsolicited psychoanalysis? send me a bill.
now you know how I felt reading this weird rant:
like what, Aaron? go ahead and tell us what are the things in this movie Bros that most people do not care to see in cinema.
Let’s hear it, Aaron. Type your outrage in ALL CAPS BOLD UNDERLINED if you feel compelled to express you lack of interest in Bros.
fap fap fap… I’m not here to moderate. I’m here on this page to express my feelings, like everyone else.
Gosh, sorry, but the US Supreme Court is too busy forcing little girls to birth the babies of rapists, so there’s no authority on the planet that can enforce your demands, k?
join the club, pal.
yeesh, I’m scared to go look at my inbox.
how’s this bickering turning out for you, Aaron?
For what it worth i send you email….i have 0 regrets when you read it you understand your intiial belief what you known bout me mmore TRUER THAN WHAT YOU FIRST THOUGHTS.. no need you to be afriad read my email for you did…i see point yor trying to make of course when you read my email i take miuch mroe care how i use capitals…well past time i did….but have 0 doubt i do NOT now TOTALLY UNDERSTAND where yourconcenrs come from…but dont presume till you read my email reply to your own mate…that i subscribe to bigoted ideas…es i course know how you feel…but as per email i sent you youu KNOW TRUTH in BEST POSSIBLE way how I FEEL bout your concerns we n same page i do now see Sashas post was not rpesented with care consideration that it shoud do soi,,..still think ou were hard on me cos after all i not engaginbg as regularly as you or others are so i was not aware debvating type of things you rightly been concerned bout been vented here for ENTIRE MONTH on one topic…gees i stunned with that.. let see..i last msgs here few weeks ago i did NOT NOTICE repeat theme Sasha was raisinfg….no wonder you were righrtfuly offended.. understand your reactions mate.. that you can count on what you originally knew botu me..turst me when you read email of TRUE STORY of MY OWN experience what you shared to me…you see YOUR ORI8GINAL IMPRESSIONS OF ME ARE MORE TRUEER THAN EVER…
take comfort in that and yes DEFINITELY pay no attention to anythinbg in those quotes i used…iseee your and others who feel same way you on this issue and will tackle in future here it given when raised not just yor sake MY OWN HISTORY too throgh that latest email isent you upmost care on type of matters Sasha raised…
You need help, you sound deranged.
You can trust me Aaron, THEY’RE ALL GOING TO LAUGH AT YOU
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e3ef5c620d89fdbcebe0c09e5a860fd5ec29b24b7b4f4d55cd3ad7ac072dc8a0.gif
Yes that was the reference. Except maybe I regret it as I support Carrie White and NOT ADOLF REICHFURST
Did Sasha change the commenting rules on her latest predictions post? I’m not able to post there. Anyhoo!
I actually agree with her about Austin Butler. He should be near the top of the predictions for best actor. He was sensational.
We’re getting that fixed. Hang tight!
No prob! We appreciate you.
The latest thread Predictions 2023 seems to have been closed for comments – only 4, and no interface to leave any other comments. I tried it on two platforms, but same issue on both. Is it a formatting thing?
Looking into it! Thanks.
Fixed soon, probably.
thanks Ryan
glitch repaired!
proceed to comment to your heart’s content!
many thanks, Ryan. 🙂
Another wildly off topic post.
Just finished Luckiest Girl Alive on Netflix and while it doesn’t belong in the Oscar race I will put it in my top 10. The movie feels the need to wrap itself up a little too cleanly which is a shame because there were times I was confident I was watching the best movie of the year.
[Adding to queue]
[Not sure why you left us for a while, rufussondheim, and I don’t need to know. We’re just very happy that you’re back!]
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b5a362f699d92a8121b7c01e84cbdfd6386a42d1fa535ecf0d60ae17d6862b55.gif
Good to be back. Thanks for noticing!
I can’t really say anything other than interests rotate. There are times in my life I am more into movies than other times.
About the GIF, that’s the only scene in that movie that works (and still they cut the reprise!). Also, for some reason I can’t quite explain I’ve always been particularly fond of this little joke even among Sondheim lyrics in general:
it might be his funniest song, at least the most amusing.
The failure to make either Sweeney Todd or Into the Woods half as good as the existing stage versions on tape is one of Hollywood’s greatest crimes.
just saw that you added this to your queue.
Have no idea if you will like it, the reviews have been tepid.
While this kind of movie has been made before, there are characters that just rang true to me, most notably, the Finn Wittrock character. He vacillates wildly between annoyance and acceptance which would annoy some, but I found it to be completely accurate. We all perceive and respond to the same stimuli differently on a day to day basis and this movie captured that well.
But that’s just one of the small things I enjoyed, the suddenness of the violence was disarming (as it should be) and based on the trauma I really found Mila Kunis’s character to be spot on.
I also liked the subtle notion that we should beware of politicians exploiting their own tragedies.
But overall I just thought this a step up from similar movies and it gave me insight into what it must be like to be this woman, how all the men in her life want to take control of her emotions. I found it extremely disquieting at times. I’m not sure I can name another movie that captured that particular aspect of the film better.
Watched it and loved it. I’m a sucker for movies like this — but it’s even misleading to say “movies like this” since Luckiest Girl Alive delivers so many surprising variations on familiar tropes.
I’m not gonna say it’s a guilty pleasure because I’m not feeling the least bit guilty for thoroughly enjoying it.
Thank you for this recommendation, RS. It’s a cut above, and several shades daker than I expected.
The Devil Wears Prada, and around every corner in this movie there’s someone wearing Prada.
glad you enjoyed it. Not so sure why critics didn’t go for it. Maybe because it was the third film they saw that day since it’s not high priority.
I think movies featuring rape scenes get unfairly downgraded for being “sensational” and unnecessary. But I disagree. It wasn’t until that famous rape scene in Irreversible did I truly understand the horror some people experience. By not showing it it’s easy to gloss over the impact.
Same with the shooting scene. I could have done without the concluding moments but when it starts and the kids lock themselves in the room upstairs, I thought that was extremely well done. If you’ve read an extended account of the Columbine shooting it’s hard not to compare.
After such experiences anyone would be susceptible to being as closed off emotionally as the main character. It didn’t come off as a gimmick to me. And looking back some scenes are more effective, like when the knife salesman is like “you are a petite woman you will be better able to handle this lighter knife”
Sasha you should really just shut down this site or hand it over to someone else at this point. I don’t think you’re capable of making an honest argument when all you can think about is the woke monster under your bed. You seem to have cocooned yourself in the right-wing’s alternate reality and it is making these posts incomprehensible. I would suggest taking a very long break from Twitter and coming back with a clear mind.
This article, like much of Sasha’s recent work, is nonsense.
I would have thought Sasha of all people would know that the Oscars have always been political. It is laughable that she seems to think that this is something new and by her own admission sounds like a broken Right wing record. I rarely visit the site now.
Actually, Adam i think YOU should get out from rock you stubbornly slept in not Sasha…she only tellint it as it is..have you seen what hspprnend in Australia for instance? sporting clubs should appoint people for their skillset in managing a organisation NOT COS their right to choose beliefs are reason they get sacked after the club appoints them as CEO CEO’s do not should not be judged on their morality they should be judged on their capacity to deliver the best results and returns for their organisation…
see for yourself stubborn in denial people like yourself clearly unaware what has been tearing apart the soiul and heartbeat of TRUE HOLLYWOOD traditional Hollywood is the WOKE MOVEMENT and your in minority who thinks it does not exist or it a fantasy or it a minority concern.
well fact as Sasha stated the film flopped…no not cos of streaming, it not cos ability to access it from hom,e…simultaneous hollywood releases HAVE been hugely successful online AND at box office..but the FACT that this film was backed in by hollywood studio to somehow pull rabbit out of hat moment to expect to do reasonably good business in traditional cineplex is a FAIL when OTHER SIMULTANEOUS RELEASES HAVE SUCCEEDED..and the ones that fail at the traditional cineplexes? THEY THE VERY TYPE OF FILMS AS SASHA SAYS THE PUBLIC IS GROWING WARY OF…surely you sick of the crap being sold as ‘new sensation’ in hollywood …try NEW DISASTER…for the public FOR HOLLYWOOD particularly…
here the link to dismiss your minority unproven argument cancel culture not a problem…and that ‘woke’ is a fantasy fooliush you..
the very fact the criteria for increasing amount of organisation, esp public ones like Cinema mainstream, like, sporting clubs, like corporations, like damn major councils in my city are hired- or fired based on what their beliefs are rather than their ability to show they have skills to improve organisations appeal to their members and the public this ought to be wake up call for people like you who chained themselves under their bed mate
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/04/barrett-calls-for-essendon-president-to-stand-down-after-ceo-disaster/There read it and weap you dead wrong denial they say is the path to your embarassment you can have trhis view but trying to diss Sasha against flow of majority opinion (ok look at cataclysmic ratings flatlining for oscar you think it some sort of scare campaign ? conspiracu theory? if only it were true oh..if only itr were true..
I bet you’re heaps of fun at parties. I bet you are one of Scott Morrison’s fans too. Double LOL.
I was not familiar with this Australian football scandal. I read the link you sent. I have no idea what it has to do with Bros failing at the box office. In any case, it sounds like a private football club hired a guy and told him he couldn’t also hold a leadership position at another organization whose values conflicted with those of the club. He refused to step down at the other organization so he was let go by the club. That’s business for ya. I’m not sure what the issue is.
More to the point, Sasha’s confusing and dishonest screed doesn’t seem to have much to do with Bros and its box office performance either. She just took the opportunity to rant about Hollywood being too woke or scolding (no specifics given, of course).
What bothers me of all this “woke” concept is… the only ones actually complaining, seem to be the ones that have full nostalgia of a time in where women would hide their bruises, african americans would be merrily lynched, gays would be jailed and had to hide, and in my country, my mother needed the positive report to the state of her being a good catolic, to be able to marry my father.
People can pretend they don’t, but that’s exactly the time period, they’re missing: the 50s, an utopia for some, a nightmare for most. Even for Hollywood, with the fear of being blacklisted, and the mandatory system propaganda inherent to most of its products.
They’re doing this by focusing on an insulated bubble that mostly exists online. That might translate to streaming platforms pretty well but it doesn’t translate to movie theaters.I once was a vendor seller at a marketplace. We rented a table to sell our goods and as we along with about 20 other sellers waited for the crowd to come rushing in. 3 hours, and you could count the number of people who came through. The organizer told us they had 200 “Yes I’m coming” on their FB page, and I swear about 10 people came through. The morale to the story: Don’t believe the hype. Don’t think that just because you have 1 million FB followers that 1 million will show up to your movie.
I’m sorry, but I read the summary for Bros and it wasn’t a movie I wanted to see. But the summary for Marry Me Marry Me didn’t interest either, and I LUV Jennifer Lopez.
“The morale to the story”
Moral.
I thought you were a school teacher.
Seem to recall you saying that you can’t be bothered to learn how to pronounce the often unusual names of your non-white students.
Colorful names. Which, in my experience, when you try to pronounce one and get it wrong, which is likely to happen, the named person is more than happy to help you “get it right”. And once you do, even if you only come close, they’re delighted that you took the time to try, and to care. I’ve found they nearly always have a smile on their face when you struggle and finally succeed. They don’t resent your struggling. They welcome your respect. That’s the bridge builder.
I love a good grammar/spelling correction. A former high school student of mine had a t-shirt with the following:
Bad Grammer Makes Me [sic]
(intentional misspelling of grammar)
I love a good grammar/spelling correction. A former high school student of mine had a t-shirt with the following:
Bad Grammer Makes Me [sic]
(intentional misspelling of grammar)
The Woman King, Everything Everywhere All At Once, and Nope could all easily be described as “woke” if you wanted to, and they could all be potentially assumed to be “woke” by audiences if they wanted to, yet they’ve all done well at the box office. The label is applied arbitrarily to fit whatever narrative is necessary. It’s absurd. The anti-woke crowd has had their knives out for Rings of Power for weeks, yet its ratings are huge.
More generally, I find the notion that the public is angry at Hollywood and abandoning it to be rather flimsy. The public is gorging themselves on Hollywood’s products hour after hour every evening. It’s movie theaters that the public is abandoning.
Millions of people are streaming every episode of Rings of Power and House of the Dragon at home; that’s two hours spent on just those two shows every weekend. If even a portion of that audience was spending those two hours at the movie theater instead, box office figures would look a lot better.
None of this should be a surprise. I love going to the movies and do it as often as I can, but that doesn’t change the fact that streaming is not only more convenient, it costs significantly less money. Telling people that the movie theater experience is superior is like telling people that music sounds better on vinyl. You may be right, but 9 times out of 10 people will go with convenience and cost.
People didn’t abandon vinyl for cassette tapes and CDs, and then abandon CDs for mp3s, because they were frustrated with the politics of the music industry. They did it because they like convenience. Streaming is just a better mousetrap.
Many a time I’ve gone to a “black themed” movie (12 Yrs a slave, et al) and the majority, about 90% of the audience was white.
We’ll recommend that you receive a medal.
it was interesting how in that film, the producer, a guy called Brad Pitt, I don’t know if you know him, portrayed a supporting but key character that could have been described in some way as a cautious way to introduce a “white savior”, that white audiences could actually relate to, and feel better about it.
Even in “RRR” – which is tremendously racist, by the way, by portraying all british as vile, vicious racists- they can’t avoid having a british character as open, kind, and interested in the hindi culture, and feature her for the love story…
Overall, I just miss films couldn’t be more balanced and have a more mature insight on why some white people were comfortable with crimes and abuse… basically the term “woke” actually describes the problem… people don’t really notice there’s a problem and suffering until they are “woken up” about the existence of it, and has taken for granted and normal, things that have been going on, since, forever? That’s why civil rights were and are fought for, because there won’t be real equality as still people reject to learn about empathy. I remember when I said at work I was going to marry – to a man – and a female straight workmate told me… “I am happy for you, I don’t think it should be possible, but I know you and I am really happy for you”. Sometimes, that’s a first step. My homophobic father actually ended crying for my husband’s death, like if he lost a son of his own. There’s always hope.
You do know that 12 years a slave is a real story, and that Brad Pitt’s character was a real man and he did travel back to find Solomon’s wife. You can download the audiobook “free” from the internet. Very interesting tale, and some of the characters & situations were not as portrayed in the film. For example, when Brad Pitt who’s a Canadian goes back north it takes him months — MONTHS! to find the wife. And it takes the former owner MONTHS! MONTHS! to travel to Louisiana to reclaim Solomon.
yes, I do know… I’ve seen the film, know the story, etc. But it is pretty significant that the most famous and liked actor of the bunch, who is a producer, chooses the most positive white role – probably the only one! – in the film, which would connect better with white audiences. I think it would have been way better to just put ANYONE else. The good thing in the film, it is that it is actually faithful on that point and it is quite balanced… but still, it offers a way out to the WASP audience to skip the necessary “guilt”, that is essential, to make the message of the film and real story, as impactful as it should be. I don’t know if I am correctly explaining… summary: by giving the role to the biggest and most loved star, the film loses power.
You don’t know the story, because you haven’t read the book or heard the audiobook. Or else you wouldn’t claim that Brad’s part was “positive”. I have read the book, and Brad’s character is real. And the events happened were real, but it didn’t happen overnight as the movie showed it to happen. One white person in the movie comes off “positive” and he’s the producer. I don’t know any producer who’s also an actor that wouldn’t (save money) by casting himself. I doubt Brad was paid for that small role.
well, SAG says he had to be. 😉
And it’s funny that after a whole year of Oscar marketing that lead the film to a Best Picture win, retelling how everything was based upon an actual story, reading it again and again, you would say to a fellow member of this site “you don’t know the story”. I mean yes, I am aware it is a real character, and it’s no chance that Pitt chose to play him.
I suppose that Indians might still have some hard feelings towards the british
nobody would question that… however, the movie is extremely over the top and caricaturesque – in a bad way – about the evilness of the Brits. It’s not healthy
Several Black people have said to me “Why do I want to sit through that?” with regards to that movie. Maybe, for some, it seems closer than 175 years ago.
What do straights try to claim?
“IT’S NOT ABOUT HOMOPHOBIA!!”
How do 46% of straights really feel? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60c25fc48db6482abe21e98731a1a268ef587d287724af0cd25f7abea3aa1a41.jpg
Even before ”Bros” opened, Out.com reported it was getting review-bombed by haters.
https://www.out.com/film/2022/9/23/homophobes-are-already-review-bombing-billy-eichners-rom-com-bros
Identical thing happened to the IMDb score for Brokeback Mountain and it was years before genuine user ratings were accumulated to level out the damage.
I had kept a graph of the malicious attack and we posted the breakdown analysis here at AD to expose what I noticed was happening. The Advocate back then had a monthly stats graphic called “Numbers” and they printed my findings in the magazine soon after Sasha took me onboard here as editor.
I’m gratified to be friends with some of The Advocate team I met nearly 2 decades ago, and I’m proud to know so many smart and conscientious gay friends here in the AD community who have stood by steadfast through numerous shitstorms we’ve endured together.
Maybe all of those 1’s are Luke’s Hallmark fans who can no longer pretend he’s straight even though he’s been out all along. Little do these Hallmark people know but a sizable portion of the male leads are gay in addition to being Canadian.
“sizable portion of the male leads are gay”
my decades of research into the sizable portions of male leads has reached similar conclusions
dirty boy
I landed on this site because I enjoy movies and the Oscars. I’m sorry, but this article is what a conspiracy theorist would put out and I am someone who objects to cancel culture.
My friends and I are not watching Bros, not because it’s gay, but because we are not big fans of Judd Apatow. People I know didn’t see West Side Story or King Richard because they were still scared of covid or they weren’t simply interested.
In fact, I have never met anyone who has said they’re not seeing a particular movie because it’s woke. The only ones I know who have complained about “wokeness” are those who watch House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power and still, they are watching these shows.
Completely attributing “wokeness” to failures in the film industry is just ridiculous. I’m pretty sure most people, who don’t watch movies like we do, don’t even think if they are woke or not.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/8OrESzoMlIUrC/giphy.gif
Renard couldn’t find a QAnon Pepe gif to represent himself, so he’s trying to make us believe that Kermit is a smug homophobic bigot like he is.
Back in 1970, when being gay was still considered a mental illness in many quarters, “The Boys in the Band” was a substantial hit.
The problem with “Bros” isn’t that it’s gay. It’s that it looks awful. If the best joke you can scrape up for the trailer is, “He looks like Dumbledore on steroids!”, then you’re trafficking in what Bill Maher calls “alternative comedy.” I’ll just watch “La Cage Aux Folles” again.
I’ll just watch “La Cage Aux Folles” again.
That’s always the best strategy!
I’d like to reply with some blunt thoughts of my own, but it’s past midnight and I’ll be less abrasive in the morning!
I despise La CAge Aux Folles even though I’ve never seen it. Just because of that nasty swipe that guy took at Sunday in the Park with George at the Tonys.
Sunday, as we all know, got the last laugh.
To be clear, the La Cage Aux Folles musical was in fact merely an adaptation of the play, and the French movie was actually made before the American musical came out. So while I agree that the Sondheim comment from Herman was extremely crude, is it really necessary to punish an unrelated adaptation of the same material for the stupid behavior of someone who made another adaptation?
I am irrational. So irrational my handle combines two geniuses – rufus wainwright and Stephen Sondheim.
I’m gay myself and couldn’t be less interested in Bros.
The younger crowd probably stayed home to watch the Heartbreak High reboot instead, which seems to be connecting more authentically with an intersectional range of minority audiences.
Mainstream queer depictions can tend to pander regressive or narrow (for instance see the current Sam Smith & Kim Petras hit Unholy which is basically raunch+blasphemy=queer, ugh!). I’ll catch up with Bros eventually as I tend to like Apatow stuff and Love, Simon was cool, but for a lot of lgbt people it doesn’t play much of a role in their daily lives, you might go years and years without it entering conversation.
Straights turn out for gay themed films. They have done it twice now for Top Gun!
“While that sells on social media, where signaling one’s virtue ups their clout, it isn’t going to translate to people who can barely afford to put food on the table or gas in their tank.”
Just so you know social media is packed with LGBTIQA+ people who can barely afford to put food on the table or gas in their tank AND who want more representation on media. This narrative connects directly with the false perception of queer people as a powerful economic lobby pulling the strings. Deceitful.
The wokest film I saw this year, is, precisely, Top Gun. Not brave enough to put a face, a nation or a identity to its enemy. They did that so they won’t offend anyone and in consequence they banalize the act of war and dehumanize it trying to be nice to every market. So there you got it.
“social media is packed with LGBTIQA+ people who can barely afford to put food on the table or gas in their tank AND who want more representation on media. This narrative connects directly with the false perception of queer people as a powerful economic lobby pulling the strings.”
This. Along with the insidious and ridiculous right-wing myth that 81 million Democrats are “wealthy elites” while 70 million Trump voters are the “struggling working class”
(Not to mention the odd mathematical myth that somehow 70 million is the silent “majority” in this equation.)
10s of millions of Democrats are working class folks, though I know that’s hard for Trump voters to grasp because we’re blue-collar voters who also read books.
I can tell you that that Bannon’s silent majority BS applies as well in France (where I live) as in Spain (where I come from). And for sure looks like for them demanding social justice and hard work or struggle are not compatible. Sigh.
Did you know that once you admit you are a racist your gas tank magically fills overnight?
Don’t ask me. I just said “I am a racist” three times in a mirror and voila!
“The wokest film I saw this year, is, precisely, Top Gun. Not brave enough to put a face, a nation or a identity to its enemy. They did that so they won’t offend anyone and in consequence they banalize the act of war and dehumanize it trying to be nice to every market. So there you got it.”
Precisely. I’ve been saying that for months, harryhausen. I said it on the podcast. But I have never articulated it as clearly as you have done here.
Top Gun: Maverick is oiled up like a hypermasculine muscleflex pageant … but it’s all steroids and small balls.
”Top Gun: Maverick” is also ”woke” enough to cast a more ethnically diverse group of actors as fighter pilots than its original 1986 movie. However, they exist only as window dressing, with little to do. The only main characters in ”Maverick” that are central to the plot and have any agency are the white alpha males. ”Maverick” could’ve cast a POC to rescue Cruise, but again, it’s got to be a ”white savior.”
hooray for diversity
https://twitter.com/joffhard/status/1531638765151723522
“Absinthe is the aphrodisiac of the self. The green fairy who lives in the Absinthe wants your soul.” – Vlad the Impaler
(Apologies. My mind wandered. I know not why.) https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/88a9ee08797cf4682f8e2678197b475abff20fb4698c3b50813d168b55331623.gif
It’s a classic 80’s Reagan trope, the enemy that is so powerful that we must not hesitate to attack them NOW, but at the same time an enemy that will be easily defeated by our boys with nary a whiff of blowback or further escalation. That’s payback boys. America is back back back!
As for the struggle to “barely afford to put gas in their tank” it’s always darkly hilarious to see MAGA expose themselves with their whiny-ass laments on Twitter.
Look at this Trump toady in Florida pretending he’s a victim — with a photo that shows he pumped a 43-gallon fill-up for $167. (43 gallons, wtf?)
Sharp-eyed Democrats were happy to provide further details.
This MAGA crybaby drives a Ford F450 King Cab that sells for a base price of $98,000, and he has it pimped out with an additional $10k of Transformer cosplay trim to turn it into a black latex “armored vehicle.”
He nicknames his sad insurrectionist fantasy “The DC Destroyer.”
Imagine his tears at the gas pump whenever he roars around in his cartoonish Brodozer to overcompensate for his dickless existence.
This is one of the “struggling Trump voters” who feels threatened every time Hollywood puts a gay character in a screenplay.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/81a86f2d299e78f76c69323e9e9e1a9d06685a86a711add2326d5c7d5b4fae6a.jpg
To be honest I really don’t get the argument that BROS flopped because it was “woke”. It was a broad, mainstream, raunchy romcom with 2 white guys, there was nothing woke about it, unless you consider it “woke” that it provided rare LGBTQ representation in the romcom genre.
I think that has been the general problem with this whole “woke film” discourse, that very often anything with minority representation is automatically labelled “woke” and I think the major issue with that is that if “woke” continues to be presented as something inherently bad then by association “representation” itself is going to be seen as inherently bad, as well. And I don’t think that’s fair especially considering how long of a road it has been to even get to this (still abysmal) level of minority representation in film. Not like 90% of the major studio films and Best Picture nominees are not still from and about white, straight men.
As for why the film flopped : did homophobia play a part ? Absolutely. But that wasn’t the only reason.
The film tried to sell a genre that 9 out of 10 cases can’t be sold to the moviegoing masses without star power. Would it have flopped with Benedict Cumberbatch and Chris Evans ? I highly doubt it. But this would be also a whole other conversation because Eichner wanted an openly LGBTQ cast and unfortunately even in this day and age, the “openly” bit is tricky. Are those two major movie stars LGBTQ ? I don’t know. But if they were, would they feel comfortable being open about it with their franchise contracts and movie star / leading man status ? I don’t think so. And considering it is 2022, that is really sad. Also the answer to the age-old question why there are no huge movie stars out there who are openly gay.
The release plan was also questionable : romcoms without star power tend to be hits on streamers as Sasha pointed it out (Fire Island on Hulu is the closest comp here) but I don’t blame Universal for going theatrical with BROS, it is a high-quality crowd pleasing comedy that probably tested very well so it makes sense to me that they tried to make it a theatrical hit. Having said that, the fuckup was in the scheduling.
Broad raunchy romcoms are summer plays not fall and seeing how dead empty August was, it was really a huge mistake not to release it then. The Aug12-14 weekend was up for grabs and it could have been great counter programming to the SECOND weekend of Bullet Train and it would have also had the luxury of 3 weeks of lucrative summer weekdays.
Oh, well, it is what it is. The film will probably get some awards play (Best Comedy / Comedy Actor nods at the Golden Globes, maybe even a WGA nod for Eichner Trainwreck-style) and no doubt a long life thanks to VOD, streamers and television licensing.
For what it’s worth, I’m glad the film exists. It’s a good one. It didn’t make money. Big whoop. At least it didn’t cost much. High-profile, big-budget films from and about white, straight men don’t make money in theatres ALL THE TIME yet there is not only no flop discourse around them, they are often labelled “hits” because they delivered numbers that look good but are actually not once the price tag is factored in.
I wish we had that energy for films with rare minority representation, too, but of course when a film like that doesn’t turn profit in the first 10 minutes of its release, the flop headlines are everywhere from opening day.
And THAT is the problem.
“High-profile, big-budget films from and about white, straight men don’t make money in theatres ALL THE TIME.”
Thank you.
Exactly one year ago. October 15, 2021.
The Last Duel. $100+ million budget. Tanked with a grand total of $10 million domestic.
And it’s a brilliant film that we’re all grateful exists.
But we didn’t have to hear any lectures that it was a movie that “lectured us to do better,” even though its entire premise and reason for being was to spotlight a significant truelife historical event when a woman stood up for women to say, “Hey, stop raping us, you violent toxic assholes.”
I read that all the actors and leads were gay and drag queens and whatever they are….and I said “nope.”
“and whatever they are” …wtf
Good lord, Li-Wright, what a snarly bitter gargoyle you can be.
I’m more concerned at the rising talking point of “this group of people is such a small part of the population why are so many films being made to cater to them”. We’re told to reach across the divide and regard one another as human beings while being simulataneously told that movies like Bros really have no place on our hallowed theatrical screens.
Well-said. ”Bros” got a 90 from critics and a 91 from audiences at Rotten Tomatoes, and its CinemaScore, from the opening weekend, was an A. Billy Eichner and Luke Macfarlane did tons of press, promoting its comedy cred, due to Judd Apatow and Nick Stoller. Universal took a risk producing it, and ”Bros” took a risk casting nearly all LGBTQ actors.
That said, straight moviegoers have no obligation to support LGBT movies, and many of them would never go to a gay love story, let alone watch LGBT sex scenes. But it’s disappointing that the LGBT community, which is hypercritical about the lack of representation in media, didn’t come out in larger numbers to support a diverse LGBT film that got a rare major wide release on 3,550 screens. (I saw ”Bros” at a weekend matinee in a 75-seat theater that was only half-full, and that was in San Francisco (!), a city of over 800,000 where 15% identify as LGBT.) Sadly, ”Bros” showing on its opening weekend will be cited by Hollywood as to why more LGBT movies will, or won’t, get greenlit.
https://www.out.com/film/2022/10/06/guy-branum-calls-out-critics-bros-billy-eichner
I can’t speak for all gays, but cinema history shows that when a film about gay people reaches the mainstream it usually comes off as horribly dated or even just plain not for the gays.
We get so used to everything mainstream to be aimed at heterosexuals that many of us don’t even look anymore.
Yes, nothing more dreary than a Gay Movie that is so clearly modulated to help walk straight people through it that it ends up feeling like The Annotated Gay Movie.
Just from the trailer, I’m not getting the impression Bros does that.
Well said, Phantom.
Oh Sasha, come on, you have played a big role on wokefying Oscar from your white privilege blindness. Pushing for races and genders over film quality. Attacking people who just love movies for being movies and not needing to push a political agenda. Now Hollywood movies feel void, but there are movie industries from other countries filling the gap. Who cares about the Oscars now? I used to visit this site every day since it was Oscarwatch. Now I just get a glimpse once every couple of months to see if it is still alive. Don´t play preacher Sasha, you were one of the loudest voices to contribute to the downfall of Hollywood.
MAGA moms and dads have to aggressively protect their kids from seeing any gay characters in Disney movies.
Unless the gay character is stupid, creepy, or evil — or all three:
Gaston in Beauty and the Beast
Jafar in Aladdin
Scar in The Lion King
(all of whom were created by gay supervising animator Andreas Deja — because yes, it’s okay to give the gays a job at Disney as long as they create shady gay characters to program children to be scared of the homosectshuals)
It’s important to prevent nasty-ass gay filmmakers from slipping their filthy ‘agenda’ into Disney movies.
Unless it’s gay Howard Ashman, who wrote the lyrics for all the songs sung by all the heteronormatives in The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty and the Beast.
It’s understandable that MAGA parents don’t want their kids to witness any kissing in a Disney movie…
…unless it’s virtually every Disney movie ever made, except for Snow White.. oh wait, I seem to recall maybe there was a kiss in that one too.
in fact, wasn’t there an entire 20-minute sequence in Bambi, where all of Bambi’s straight furry forest friends were suddenly horny, kissing and flirting, and eager to fuck?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9ac0a19685897f3ed9dc5710fd816a25c0f7e363631b09c93cbf115a3bf5c904.gif
Are we sure all of those bunnies were straight? They seem very fluid to me. HA
Excuse me, but didn’t Prince Charming kiss Snow White without her consent?
There’s a name for that.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/456ad62926a75bda8bdb08ac2930c6cdfe2f165ad8fd70d424e0c4b400583593.jpg
16th century German woodlands were rife with widernatürliche unzucht.
How about Snow White working Dopey’s ears like goddamn handlebars?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bc27bc9d07e6ad9333d55821218b4190d9c404381886315bdd5656968264406.gif
Hurts my feelings that this gif got no up-votes.
I maybe should’ve explained that widernatürliche unzucht means “unnatural fornication”
I teach a class on how to do GIF’s that get upvotes, if you’re interested.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/094a2c7400040472bca20597fdc645947e23abd2321873f46e73a2df07aeca89.gif
And as the Little Mermaid kerfuffle showed, the Disney fallacy (the belief that Disney versions of fairy tales are the original ones and not carefully curated updates) is alive and well.
I loved Bros. It’s very funny and a modern depiction of gay lives. I saw it at TIFF and the audience loved it. I was naive to think it would be a Bridesmaids level hit. Rom coms are more successful on tv unless it has big stars and action like The Lost City earlier this year. The theatre is for horror and blockbuster action. The fact that a horror with no stars topped the box office is also a sign of our state of consciousness. Our minds are comforted by and addicted to fear from our evolutionary survival brain to the daily onslaught of doom gloom news. Also why people watch Dahmer in droves on Netflix and Blonde. There were buzzy options at home too. People are also busy with their lives- movies take work for a lot of people. None of my good gay friends saw it this weekend though felt like they should have to show support.
I’d really like to see a scientific study that clearly states people avoid movies like King Richard, Lightyear and West Side Story because they are deemed woke. Until then, I would believe it’s pure conjecture and is purely used to propagate whatever agenda a person has.
As someone who loves movies, I will watch whatever movie I want, woke or not. What is woke nowadays anyway? It seems like having a multiracial couple in a movie is already perceived as woke. I can’t tell anymore. What a wonderful life we live in now. Not.
The actual issue is that rom coms do not do well anymore in streaming and post-Covid times. The only successful romcoms since 2010 are Crazy Rich Asians(2018), Silver Linings Playbook (2012) and Trainwreck(2015) and Just Go With It(WTF is that?)(2011) These are the only ones to make top 30 box office rom coms of all time. To ignore this is to ignore the full picture. I saw dozens of comments on “Bros bombs at box office” in the past two days where people are saying that no one will ever go see a romcom in a theater again, that these are STREAMING movies and superhero or family films (occasionally horror?) are for theaters now. It’s how genres will be perceived from now on.
A phrasing of this idea that really struck me when I heard it on some podcast was something along the lines of “It’s interesting that we prioritize theatrical moviegoing as a way of being scared together but deprioritize it as a way of laughing together”
Great observation. What podcast was that, Ferdinand?
I think it might have been Blank Check (which is a personal favorite and that I think I’ve mentioned here in the past as well). I’ll look into it and get back to you
Thanks! I’ll seek it out.
Approximately 2 hours and 40 minutes into the Blank Check episode on Used Cars. The exact quote (from Jason Mantzoukas, so I guess also How Did This Get Made applies as a reference point here) “What’s interesting about the time we live in is people still will go to the movies to be scared together but they will not go to laugh together”. Also, in general that episode is probably only about 50-60% about that specific movie and the rest is just general ranting about the status of theatrical comedies, so it in general would probably work pretty well in relation to the discussion about Bros.
So why don’t films that are made for and marketed toward the SILENT MAJORITY do better at the box office? Dinesh D? That anti-semite Gina Carano? Clint’s The Mule and Cry Macho (boohoo). What is wrong with the silent majority that they don’t support their kind? Do the “people who serve the food” not get a say at the box office? Why aren’t all those sweethearts on Truth Social getting all of the poor victims of the Hollywood agenda out in droves to support more films about Hunter Biden doing crack?
Lightyear’s issue was a meh story, but if some people want to insist that a three second peck on the cheek from a woman to another woman is the end of the world, nothing like facts or objective reality will dissuade them from that. We could have a perfectly up the middle non-offensive film like the Filmersons win and the next day all the usual suspects will swear that Spielberg gave his winning speech in a dress while reading aloud from the diaries of Pol Pot.
The last five BP winners were CODA, Nomadland, Parasite, Green Book, and Shape of Water. Only ONE of them even scraped anything resembling “woke” or “do better” or whatever we’re supposed to be angry about and that’s the one BP winner of the last five that will never be criticized here. And that’s ok. But I feel some of the omnibus thesis presented here overstates things a bit.
“some people want to insist that a three second peck on the cheek from a woman to another woman is the end of the world”
remember when Jane kissed Tarzan so hard she got him pregnant? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87fdaaf80962d6d790320ed06fa105fb667e37469e39e5f331ed8a20ec460208.gif
I’m confused. “Do better” is now a pejorative? Should we strive to “do worse”?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f2011f426b0a52988463f2cf1c387efc803e6a4210bc4e17e849db21b38d0985.gif
The movie “Bros” seems dated. I would have supported the movie if it had come out 20 years ago. Today, there’s an oversaturation of Gay Characters on TV, so what’s the urgency with “Bros”. I saw the trailer, and it didn’t grab my attention.
Did you see it?
No, it’s too mainstream.
I haven’t seen it either! Haven’t had time.
Also, it seems like the perfect Gay Date Movie, and I don’t know anybody who wants to date me lately :((
I’m not trying to single you out! You’re one of our most recent smart readers who is willing to dive into the fray, and I like what I see!
I recall last year you had some warm-hearted and interesting things to say about West Side Story, and I appreciate that!
I’m just saying, looks like everyone on this page has a strong opinion about Bros, and I’m not sure any of us have seen it 🙂
(Just the same way that millions of moviegoers won’t ever see Bros — because they’ve already been told that it’s “woke.”)
I don’t like to read reviews before I see a movie. But I sneaked a peek at the perfect score of 100 that Mick LaSalle gave it (SF Chronicle).
Mick LaSalle is a brilliant critic, so I’m willing to take his word for it that Bros is not outdated or a tepid retread of something we’ve all seen before.
If you can help find me a date, I’ll go see it and form an opinion of my own.
where are all of these gay characters!?!?!?!
True, a lot of shows have one gay character (especially competitive reality shows) so actual gay relationships can’t be explored, but I really can’t think of any mainstream TV show where two gay men can be two gay men.
If you think Spielberg is free of politics you are sadly mistaken. Spielberg’s characters live in a world with well-defined problems with manageable solutions. Rarely do they need to look inward. I can’t think of any film (Schindler included) of his that manages to capture the world’s complexities. His anti-realities eventually become just as political by pushing forth a world of simplicity that simply doesn’t exist, that discourages the viewer from asking the bigger questions society demands of us. “Is it ethical to recreate dinosaurs?” is not a serious topic even though Spielberg likes to think it is.
Your argument assumes Looking found an audience. It never did. Neither did any of the “queer” shows on premium cable at that time. Sure, Queer as Folk lasted a few years. But when gays stopped signing up for Showtime, it was quickly dispatched.
Any film with two lead homosexuals is inherently “woke” so you merely created a strawman and then knocked it down with one puff.
People don’t want to watch two gay men find fulfillment. It’s that easy. They’d rather spend their money on something else.
Bros should have gone the streamer route and dropped in June instead of waiting for the Festivals.
At the very least there’s Munich. And even beyond that one movie, I’d actually argue a lot of his 21st century work (A.I. Artificial Intelligence, Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can, Bridge of Spies, The Post, West Side Story) is often about people struggling with a world where other people are trying to present this kind of “everything is good” image that you’re arguing Spielberg’s movies present. The thing just is that as an older mainstream filmmaker his approach to these topics can be somewhat “dad movie”-like in a way that can make it seem softer.
But in general, of course I agree that not bringing up the messiness and complexity of the world is not an apolitical act but rather (especially in a context as cleanly cut as the American two party system) a political act in a certain direction
This is exactly why BO has not figured into my predictions as it has with so many, e.g., people convinced EEAAO is the second coming of Christ.
EEAAO has support, not sure that translates into a win, but it’s got something that the perceived contenders don’t, originality. No one will ever accuse it of being Oscar bait, or IP fan service, or a film relentlessly trying not to offend the middle. The fact that it made that much money in THIS theatrical climate with a cast not littered with A-listers isn’t nothing. A24 is going to try the “little film that could” approach CODA won with.
Absolutely. And EEAAO (although it may not win anything) is in for the long run. It has TRUE passion behind it. It is loved and adored by many and that can never be ignored.
And if a perceived frontrunner stumbles that only helps its cause. Also Yeoh is in Avatar 2 which can only help her Everything campaign
Wait, it isn’t??
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dbe79859e8d1ec3c39572f0a13f2d60675f5cee0b7311850d3fce084ebda02af.gif
MAGA parents: “No animated kissing in front of our kids! you disgusting gay perverts!”
80 years of Disney foreplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlTRMKQO87c
The “we don’t have a problem with gay people, we just don’t want kissing in kids movies” arguments are so obviously false and dishonest that I’m a little bit insulted that anyone would think I would believe them.
Make a movie for no one (translation: representation is more important than characters and story)
Say it’s made for audience X (that’s represented)
Explicitely say that isn’t for audience Y (don’t forget to insult them with one or more labels)
When the movie bombs, only blame audience Y whom you told the movie wasn’t for
Gloss over the fact that audience X, whom you told the movie was for, didn’t show up either
Rinse repeat
Gay audience didn’t show up for this and Lightyear but blame straight audience that was told these movies weren’t for them. Women didn’t show up for Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator: Dark Fate, Charlie’s Angels, 355, etc but blame men. Latinos didn’t show up for Into the Heights but blame white audience. Etc. It’s all so tiresome.
Just so we’re all clear, Manwe.
Without seeing Bros, you have somehow extracted from your ass the firm conviction that it’s a movie where “representation is more important than characters and story”?
I swear, y’all panic-stricken “heteronormatives” seem to stay mad at the gays all the fuckin time lately.
“95% of America’s heterosexuals lost interest when the trailer for Bros focused on the gay part of the gay story. But hey, that’s not homophobia! We’re mad because movies like Bros are trying to change human behavior!“
I wish you straights could relax. I promise you that nobody’s tryin’ to train you to suck a gay dick.
What’s bizarre to me is this:
“95% of America” can’t stand to watch a light-hearted gay rom-com.
Meanwhile, for the past 110 years, 100% of gay movie-lovers have been avid fans of thousands of classic films that are wall-to-wall romance between straights. (Many of them quite hideous to look at!)
What’s the creepy disease in so many straight brains that makes it impossible for some of you to accept gay relationships onscreen? — at the same time that you expect gay audiences to line up at the box-office to swoon over straight romance? (which we always do, because we’re not gaspy hysterics.)
Who gave the greenlight on this site that it was okay to sneer about gay films and gay filmmakers day after day?
It’s not just crude. It’s not just arrogant. It’s boring.
“Wah wah! All the annoying gays writing gay books about gay life that are getting school libraries raided and closed down nationwide!”
“Wah wah! All the annoying gays making icky gay movies about gay life that are killing movie theaters because MAGA are having another meltdown!”
I’m gonna enjoy the hell out of it when this year’s Best Actress and Best Actor frontrunners are LGBTQ+ characters. (TÁR and The Whale)
Have fun being miserable, all you bitter straight sadsacks.
We gays will be having a blast.
Indeed, we will have a ‘whale’ of a time, ‘tar’ very much! 🙂 🙂
But TAR and The Whale aren’t advertised as Representation: The Movie nor has cast and crew tell part of the audience that the movies aren’t for them. Take it to studios and film-makers that do that rather than with audience that started to notice.
“aren’t advertised as representation”
Manwe, I like you. You’re a longtime asset to the AD community. But I’m having trouble understanding the issue that bothers you.
I admit, I’ve not been monitoring the Bros advertising strategy, but how is a trailer for a gay movie that has a lot of gay men in it any different from a trailer for an Irish movie that has a lot of Irish people in it? (Belfast) Or a trailer for a hillbilly movie that has a lot of hillbillies in it (assuming such a movie were to exist.)
When we saw the trailers for Minari, Aretha, Parasite, was anybody crying: “wah wah, we hate representation thrown in our faces!”
No. Because no sane movie-lover felt that way. And because all the bitter weirdos who inwardly bristled up knew theirs was an opinion too grotesque to express.
But somehow it’s fine for some people to bleat like slaughtered sheep when a gay movie is proud to display how gay it is?
No, the smug tsk-tsking is not fine. And I’m sick of seeing it on this site.
Representation:The Movie. You cut off The Movie and that’s the punchline. That’s “this movie has nothing going for it but representation” whereas other movies that aren’t Representation:The Movie have representation but that isn’t be all and end all of the movie. Take First Kill. That show was cancelled by Netflix and its showrunner dragged Netflix for representation marketing. The showrunner said that Netflix focused on characters being lesbian rather than the story and blamed that for low viewership. I’m sorry if I’m not explaning it well.
ah okay, sorry, I understand your joke now.
I still don’t understand how you come to the conclusion that Bros “has nothing going for it” except a gay cast depicting gay life.
*(it’s enormously talented gay cast)
**(cant we all name dozens of our favorite movies in which the main attraction is the cast?)
Whatever happened to the concept that global cinema is endlessly fascinating because it can transport the viewer into an unfamiliar experience for 2 hours?
I can think of nothing more fucking boring than movies that never showed me characters that live lives different from mine.
Sad as hell for me to see people who claim to love movies throw a sulky little fit if they “can’t identify” with any people onscreen that aren’t straight and white.
I can’t understand how people are not embarrassed to say that shit out loud.
(I’m sorry I misunderstood your reply, Manwe, and I’m also sorry that I’m bouncing off your calm replies to vent my frustration!)
Don’t worry, I get it. I get where you are coming from and I’m honestly more taking potshots at film-makers who blame flops on audience that their movie isn’t for (their words) rather than movie itself. This practice that Paul Feig started when Ghostbusters 2016 went bust needs to die. You can’t tell some demos that something isn’t for them cause that’s stupid and you certainly can’t blame the audience for not showing up. The fault is always with you (not you Ryan ha ha but you as you know) so take responsibility. Something didn’t work. Maybe there was not enough interest in your movie that got bigger budget than demand justified (that goes for rather cheap movies thats till fall short). Maybe marketing didn’t explain why people should see it. Either way, it’s an inside problem not an outside one.
Throw in Stephanie Hsu (EEAAO) for BSActress and out gay actor Ben Wishaw for Women Talking for BSActor and we get a full house.
Actually, Billy Eichner made a big effort to promote ”Bros” was for EVERYONE, gay and straight. He said pointed out that Judd Apatow and Nick Stoller, the same creatives behind comedy hits, like ”The 40-Year-Old Virgin,” ”Knocked Up,” ”Trainwreck,” ”Forgetting Sarah Marshall,” etc., were behind ”Bros.” If Eichner, a gay man, could grow up loving straight rom-coms, like ”Pretty Woman” and ”When Harry Met Sally,” he reasoned: Why couldn’t straight folk enjoy a gay rom-com?
However … Eichner grew up at a time when rom-coms were only straight. And Eichner might’ve underestimated how much resistance and reluctance straight moviegoers have to LGBT movies in general, and especially gay sex scenes.