Due to complaints, I’m removing this post — but suffice it to say that Expelled is a documentary that will not see the light of day in the Oscar race. I will post this and other items relating to it on my personal site, sashastone.com. However, if a reader threatens me or anyone who posts any information to this site with a potential loss of readership due to Creationist beliefs, well, what can I say. Perhaps AD is not the place for you. We do these blogs for a variety of reasons but mainly they are a labors of love – exhausting, thankless and ultimately they themselves tread on thin ice. You have millions of choices on the web so you are not bound to this site, nor am I required to post things to your liking. We do this because we want to. You read because you choose to. My choice, your choice. Act accordingly.
Guys you are not alone believe me. I’m absolutely agree with you. It doesn’t matter what other people would say just trust me. I know for sure that it’s about real events.
religious intolerance
we need more of that! especially if it means forcing religious crap into science classrooms! zero tolerance for crap!
Great post Sash, and great comeback.
People are so ignorant, and need to calm down. Ignore the haters, we love your work, and would not stop reading for the world.
For shame, Sasha. Removing the post only adds to the ignorance (not directed at any in particular). Sometime the right to free speech should be exercised. I know you know that, I’ve seen your personal blog. But AW is a blog, and will have content that all readers might not agree with, whether it be Expelled or The Kite Runner.
But really, I know the movie is crap, you know that…there’s some substantial evidence…it’s the movie equivalent of ‘A Thousand Little Pieces’. File under fiction.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_8653837?nclick_check=1
I never saw the original post, but I agree that theological debates are better left to sites and arenas designed specifically to that purpose.
I don’t have a problem discussing opposing viewpoints, but it should be done in a polite, respectful way. Tufas, this is meant for you. I don’t take issue with your opinions, but the crude manner in which you’ve stated them. If we’re going to discuss the subject at hand, let’s do it with dignity and maturity.
Dave
To Daniel
“On the subject of hipocrasy (since everyone else seems to be mentioning it =P), isn’t that a little hypocritical right there? You say that people should believe what they believe and not let other’s arguments sway their beliefs, but then call certain people “close-minded”…
Are you seriously arguing that teachers will never face consequences for what they teach? You live in a free society where you can say what you want. Students, faculty, and staff are all allowed to have their own opinions. But there are standards for instituting hegemonic belief. You cannot simply evade the question of what those standards might be, and whether ID meets them. Teachers that teach that the Earth is flat should not expect to find tenure in any geology department. I cannot start teaching from LOLCat Bible and expect to be hired by any theology school. You can’t expect a doctor who starts practicing medieval medicine to be hired by a hospital because of his “beliefs.” That is just bull-crap.
I expect this movie to be as dumb as brick. Maybe it will resurrect the same feelings of pity I had when I saw What the Bleep Do We Know?
It’s your blog and it’s not like I love each every one of your entries, but I love the work that you do.
Each entry has a perspective and brings me informed news of movies that strike a chord. Whether dissonant or resonant. Keep it up! Don’t let the haters bring you down!
Dang, what is this, the IMDb forums all of a sudden?
May I take this Easter Sunday and tell Comfortably Numb that the Easter Bunny is not real!
Sorry :((((((
Now, about Santa….. sit down first..
T.
Comfortably Numb I have no personal respect for you. And it is very much true that this documentary has no shots at the awards (apart from Razzies) and there is absolutely nothing wrong on talking about movie’s award chances on website devoted to that kind of coverage.
As for the movie itself:
don’t really see why intelligent scholars and scientists need to be so defensive on the issue of creationism.
Some even propose giving equal time to both as a way of compromise… why???
I mean you wouldn’t really take some religious person’s suggestions on how to alter the way we teach math, chemistry or even history, would you? Why should biology or anthropology (both sciences) be any different?
So no need to be defensive.
Just because young children, by they were nature and lack of experience, are more naive and most likely to belive the same things they parents do, doesn’t mean they should be taken advantage of!
Let’s not destroy their critical thinking skills as they are just beginning to develop and let’s let them decide for themselves what they want to believe. It’s all out there.
Truth is, most scientists hold themselves to much hihger standards than most theologists (I’m not even talking about creatonists, that group of people is as inflexible as they are dim – I’m sorry but this is they way they show themselves) and are not satisfied with with their hypothesis now matter how realistic they seem to be until they get facts. Just because some piece of writing “says so” and you read it, does not mean you know what you are talking about.
Another difference, is that scientists didn’t set out to destroy and pre-concived religous notions (not in the beginning anyway). They are interested in what the ultimate result is. Creationsts, on the other hand, start with what they consider to be an ultimate result and pick and chose their facts (in a poor way) to make the science fit their own worldview. They don’t understand the difference between a cause and effect and discard everything that doesn’t fit thair own scheme.
But I digress….
My point is, just because there is a pressure from some circles (and even parents), teachers and scientists should not give in and give it representation in schools. It is their job, as educated people to do as much as they can to differentiate between what’s fact and what’s just “tradition”.
For everything else, there are churches, temples, etc.
I applaud this post being removed. I don’t think Sasha is intolerant merely for disagreeing with Creationism or Intelligent design. The point I was trying to make was this… in her first post she stated in no subtle way that this documentary has no shot at any awards. If she is so confident that it had no shot the only reason to bring it back up would be to ridicule it’s content even further.
I think the decision to move the post to her personal blog, where religious perspectives and commentary are more appropriate, was a good one.
Sasha, I meant no personal disrespect in my original comment and if any were taken I apologize.
Why does it matter? This is a movie site and a movie was posted, with political bias. HOLY CRAP!!! A BLOG had bias!!!!!! and one that follows the movie business, because movie people do not lean to one side, generally. So what this is a stupid debate, one side yells at the other and then the other side yells and then nothing happens. so why don’t we live in peace and leave people alone. anyways… so movies are cool (this is the vein in which comments should be going on this kind of site).
“I think its funny when evolutionists are confronted with intelligent design/creationism. They seemed so threatened by the idea that there may exist something greater than themselves. Every documentary is one-sided in their arguments; however, it is interesting to see the liberals go against their own mantra of being open-minded.”
I don’t think being intolerant of people’s willful ignorance can be called “threatened.” There is nothing in creationism that even approximates science and every educated individual knows this. The reason why people like me do not tolerate creationism/intelligent design is because it tries to pass itself off as science without being able to stand the test of the scientific process. Being open-minded does not mean one has to support willful ignorance and if you choose to embrace creationism do not expect others who are more educated than you to support you.
As alexg pointed out, you can believe in god and embrace the reality behind evolutionary theory.
I am not sure exactly what caused Sasha to remove her article but it is surprising that she did. While I’ve never thought of her as being the brightest bulb, I certainly have always believed her to be very strong willed. Put it back up Sasha, it is your site after all.
Lol, this was just created to flamebait, Sasha has every right to her opinion, but she should accept the fact that other people have much diffrent opinions than hers, and if she cant take it then thats to bad.
I am appalled that anyone would attack Sasha based on her opinion. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
That said, I will go on to state that “Creationism” or “Intelligent Design” or whatever the hell you want to call it is a manipulative sham. I don’t even want to go into the details but to state that for something to be a scientific theory, as “Creationism/Intelligent Design” purports to be, it needs to be FALSIFIABLE. of course, “Creationism/Intelligent Design” is not. And the theory of evolution, of course is.
I find Ben Stein’s theory that the theory of evolution is responsible for the Holocaust, etc. interesting. His argument is, I suppose, in a way sustained, and certainly the Nazis did believe that they were a ‘more advanced people’ than Jewish people, but that does not mean the theory itself is responsible for such a tragedy. People are!!! We cannot dismiss an entire theory just because people use it the wrong way.
Myself, I believe in God, and I still believe in the theory of evolution. You can do both, with many scientists, like Jane Goodall, believing this to be true.
Sasha seems like a great person whose ideas are always well thought out and well articulated. Not having seen her post, I doubt that it was all that offensive.
Sasha, I just want to add my voices to the others that support you and your website. You should be able to post anything you see fit to post. It’s your blog. Its content is consistently interesting and those who dislike it should look elsewhere for their movie news.
Keep up the good work!
Sigh….
There we go again, people confusing religious beliefs for hard cold true fact.
Creationists make Europeans laugh real hard at America. Completely Wacko!
Excuse the following word, but, Sasha, please, FUCK all who force you to withdraw anything due to their unsusbstanciated beliefs. “Comfortanly numb”: you are the reason why America is now the clown of the world, not its leader. Please go back to your inbred family and pray or something.
Sincerely,
T.
To bebe:
“People who are afraid of having their strict beliefs examined/criticized/etc. obviously have pretty shakeable faith to begin with. Either you believe it or you don’t. *If you believe it, no amount of analysis/criticism is going to affect you or anything else*…the bully tactics and *CLOSE-MINDEDNESS* of a certain extreme branch of the evangelical community is frankly disappointing.”
On the subject of hipocrasy (since everyone else seems to be mentioning it =P), isn’t that a little hypocritical right there? You say that people should believe what they believe and not let other’s arguments sway their beliefs, but then call certain people “close-minded”…
To Sasha: You have every right not to delete this entry. Anyone who bashes and threatens you for it obviously aren’t secure enough with their own beliefs to handle reading blogs in general.
However, I don’t think all documentaries are propaganda. I think the point of a documentary is to explore a certain side or view of an argument or situation, and it will probably end up looking one-sided.
Also, I have my own personal beliefs (which I won’t get into here) so why shouldn’t I watch a documentary about something that might be contrary? Just because someone believes something different than me, doesn’t mean I should think they’re evil. Why not explore more possibilities? It has the potential to strengthen your own beliefs when you have learned more about the other sides of the arguments.
Well Deviant, let me be the first liberal fascist (how ever that works) to answer you. Being an “evolutionist” I can safely tell you, that I don’t feel threatened at all. That like saying gravitationists feel threatened by the notion that you can fly if you just believe in it. The reason so many people who believe in evolution don’t enter into discussion with the intelligent design crowd is: it just seems a waste of time. We listened to your arguments, we disproved them, we told you that we checked if your theory holds up to the standards of scientific research and that it did not. For us, the discussion was over at that point. Sadly, somebody did not get the memo.
So basically, we are not threatened by the Idea, just by the thought of it being brought into the schools as if it was science. Because unlike in religion or philosophy, not every theory deserves to be heard. The ptolomaic world view was wrong, the sun does not turn around the earth. And hopefully, in a few years, we are going to talk about intelligent design the same way.
greetings from Germany, where almost 100% of the people believe, that evolution is true.
Why would people not want to be informed about another view point? I have my own beliefs about any given issue but I will read dissenting views. It is interesting if not just simply amusing!
If my own beliefs are so shakeable and unsteady to be swayed by one article or documentary then maybe my views are not really my own. Either way, I like being informed about every side. I personally think it’s a sign of intelligence. Good for you Sasha! Your site is the best!
I think its funny when evolutionists are confronted with intelligent design/creationism. They seemed so threatened by the idea that there may exist something greater than themselves. Every documentary is one-sided in their arguments; however, it is interesting to see the liberals go against their own mantra of being open-minded. These reactions just go to show you that some liberals are only open-minded when they discuss issues with like-minded individuals. I know what the reaction is going to be from my comments, “well, the theory of evolution is fact and any theory that supports an eternal creator is false.” Fascism at its finest.
Whatever the politics of Expelled, I want to know what’s it’s about so I can decide for myself whether I want to see it or not. That’s my right as a thinking adult. I don’t see why Sasha can’t bring attention to a certain film if she wants to. It’s her site.
I love you, Sasha! Don’t let the jerks bring you down!
People who are afraid of having their strict beliefs examined/criticized/etc. obviously have pretty shakeable faith to begin with. Either you believe it or you don’t. If you believe it, no amount of analysis/criticism is going to affect you or anything else. Sasha, no need to take this off your site. I happen to be part Christian but the bully tactics and close-mindedness of a certain extreme branch of the evangelical community is frankly disappointing and more than a little Orwellian thankyouverymuch.
Good Job, Sasha. I respect your decisions. Honestly, this is a subject I’d wouldn’t want to go near with a ten foot pole so good for you. Anyone willing to jump in this fiery pit of a subject deserves a pat on the back. It’s never fun dealing with intolerance and I think we’re seeing it in all these nasty little comments.
jjj,
I agree with you about the disservice of covering a film and not the politics behind it. I also agree that Expelled will not win an Oscar. Not in today’s Hollywood. If they wanted a chance to win an Oscar, the best way would have to make a documentary about how evil the Bush Administration is. Not much more is needed. If they use that as their guide–no matter how much of the film consists of the filmmaker’s fallacious truthiness–they would do well. It’s not a requirement, but it is definitely a plus.
I can’t remember a documentary winning that slanted to the right.
The irony is striking every day from the left, as they suppress opposing views and then stresses diversity. The hypocrisy is definitely worth noting.
Having said that, let me add that for the most part, hypocrisy is everywhere. (I have even had some of my contradictions shown here on this site.) We grow from learning and understanding our impact of being hypocritical.
Not planning on going anywhere,
Rob
P.S. Let the pouncing begin.
Beautifully said jjj and elessar.
^^ What jjj said. I don’t hijack threads that I disagree with. If there’s a factual error or something, I point it out respectfully b/c I’ve come to enjoy Sasha and Ryan’s work.
BTW, what does pointing out the flaws in ID/creationism have to do with religious intolerance? Why do evolution and religion have to be in conflict, other than to keep a few quack scientists and snake-oil ministers employed?
It is also surprising that this is the only blog I follow where its readers are constantly threatening to stop reading if ‘such and such coverage’ continues. What kind of behavior is that? Just ignore what you don’t like–I ignored like fifty Juno posts last year because I thought the flick was trash, it’s really not that difficult.
Finally, movies are a piece of culture, they are not isolated experiences, it’s a disservice to the culture of film to cover only a film and not its cultural impacts or the ‘politics’ behind them. Everything adds up a bigger picture, and these sorts of details are worth covering.
The irony is pretty striking, just goes to show you that Expelled has absolutely no ground to stand on when its supporters use the exact same tactics at what they’re complaining about— both in the original posted video and its backlash.
The hypocrisy is worth noting… no intelligence allowed indeed…
I don’t know, Comfortably Numb, I feel that perhaps you’re over reacting. I tend to usually skip the more political/religious material Sasha posts. That said, this IS movie related – she just happens to have an opinion on the movie that you don’t agree with.
i know this has nothing to do with this post, but there aren’t any recent TWBB posts and I had to share this. Any fans – this is a must see!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HflLVEWbigI
You are beginning to tread on thin ice here. Keep dabbling with the religious intolerance and you are going to start losing a lot of readers. Stick to movies. Please.