In our discussion on the Emmys selection for drama a few interesting items popped up. One of them is worth taking a deeper look at, I think, and that is whether or not Lost is gone forever. The Jack writes:
Lost started out as a show about these characters and how they interact with the island and respond to the mysteries around them – the characters came first. Now it‚Äôs about the island and the mysteries of it, and the now interchangeable characters come second. That‚Äôs not what I want, and it didn‚Äôt seem to be what the writers wanted at first, but since the audiences started complaining (the same audiences who only bother to catch the odd episode anyway) the writers have done everything they can to bend to their whims, which has started the show on a downward spiral that I hope to God they can get themselves out of.
I don’t really see how they can at this point. I do see a definite change from the earlier episodes. What was interesting back then were the backstories and how they informed who people were on the island. The time warp thing, the terrorist thing, the Oceanic Six – it’s just become interesting in a different way, perhaps more like 24. What it had going for it was uniqueness. Once the back stories started overlapping and becoming implausible they lost their value. I think you’ve hit it on the head, The Jack. It is now as if the characters don’t really matter that much and are only there to serve the weirdness that the island created in their lives. Either way, it’s still impossible to give up on.
My problem with Je Yeon was that it was far too obvious, at no point did I believe that Jin was in the same time line (we know Jin now and theres no way he would waste time to stop off to buy a toy on the way to his childs birth) also I tire of Sun a lot.
While your right that the Jin storyline in that episode did nothing to add to our understanding of his character, it’s existence in that episode, I’d argue, was to provide a counterpoint to Island-present Jin. To remind us how far he’s come in the three-and-a-half seasons to that point.
I booed as well 😉
I found “Ji Yeon” to be one of the most problematic episodes. The idea they were going for was nice, and the twist was unexpected, but it was too complicated. By the time the big turnaround came, where Jin says he’s only just got married while, seemingly at the same time, Sun is giving birth, I thought they were both a flashforward in the same time-frame and that Jin had left Sun once they got off the island and started a new life. I quickly realised what had happened, but it was the writers over-complicating the story and what could have been an emotional ending became too cerebral.
Would it have been so hard to just focus on Sun in the hospital, giving birth and waiting for Jin to come, only for the twist to reveal itself, WITHOUT having shown Jin at all? That’s what old-school “Lost” would have done.
“The Constant” was a great episode, and the reason for that was the Desmond/Penny exchange at the end. That was the only emotional character moment I can think of in season four.”
I boo-hooed through about half of “Ji Yeon”
Never seen LOST, but interesting quote I found once:
“You know how I know I’m watching LOST? I’m bored.” – Bill Maher
To clarify my quote, I still love Lost, and I will stick with it until the end. I just think that this season needs to slow down and take a breather. A lot of fans have criticized it in the past for wasting time and stalling, but some of the shows best moments have come when Lost wasn’t in such a hurry to create intrigue and mystery for the fans, and just allowed us to watch the characters interact:
– Michael, Jin and Sawyer returning to the beach with the tailies.
– Boone dying, paralleled with Aaron being born.
– Jack’s “Live together, die alone” speech.
– Charlie reading Claire’s note that she attached to the birds in “Par Avion”.
These were character moments that created a sense of emotion that could have come from any kind of TV show, not just a mystery, action show.
In season four, we haven’t really had any moments like that. The writers have just been in a hurry to cram every single scene with answers and action. Don’t get me wrong, I like the show for the mystery element as well, but it used to be so much more than that, which is what elevated it above just a genre show. It’s why it became so popular, even if a lot of viewers don’t realise it.
In earlier series, the “Meet Kevin Johnson” episode would have been kept back a couple of episodes after Michael returned. As an audience, we would have wondered how Michael got back, whether he knew that he was back, whether his memory had been erased, or whether it was even the same person at all. Instead, straight away we are given his backstory to how he returned to the island.
“The Constant” was a great episode, and the reason for that was the Desmond/Penny exchange at the end. That was the only emotional character moment I can think of in season four. In earlier seasons there was many moments like this, all accompanied by Michael Giacchino’s amazing piano score. In season four, I haven’t heard that familiar, haunting music at all (apart from the scene I just mentioned). We need it back.
Lost is still a great show, but the amazing first three seasons have raised my expectations of it so highly that I can’t help but be disappointed when it has a bit of a lapse. However, disappointing Lost is still as good, if not better, than 95% of anything else on TV.
Just for clarification purposes, if Lost submitted “The Shape of Things to Come” that would only be their submission for Best Drama Series, and it would only be their first submission.
To explain, the nomination process begins with a popular vote amongst all the eligible Drama Series to determine a Top 10. Those 10 series, once selected, then submit one episode which all voters watch to determine the 5 nominees. Once those 5 nominees are selected, each show creates three tapes with two episodes each (for Lost’s example, when they won for season 1 their killer tape selections were “Pilot, Pt.1″/”Pilot Pt.2”, “Walkabout”/”House of the Rising Sun”, and “Exodus, Pt.1″/”Exodus, Pts.2-3”) Each voter receives one tape at random to watch.
This does not mean that the voters are asked to only consider the episodes they receive for the award, as they are certainly allowed to be fans of the shows and watch all of them, but the tape submission process allows for less well-known shows to get at least an equal footing and provide a more even playing field.
As for the actors, the rules are different. The shortlisting process occurs for them, too, but I forget if its 10 or 15 on the shortlists for acting. Then, each nominated actor or actress submits one episode. So, when Terry O’Quinn won last year it wasn’t for his minimal screen time in “Through the Looking Glass,” it was for his submitted episode, “The Man from Tallahassee.” A much more Locke-centric episode by any measure.
i think maybe the season may come across as weaker because they had to collapse some storylines into other episodes due to the strike-induced shortened season. It’s still my only must-see show on TV right now, though. The one cast member who I think deserves an award is Yun Jin–she plays understated so well that when the emotion does come up, it seems that much more real. I’m shocked she’s never been nominated, even for a Golden Globe.
I think the REAL problem of this threads author might be that he likes flashbacks but not flash forwards , and sees them as somehow ruining his characters , but that should be like , i don’t know , his problem or something … it’s going to be great watching them develop into these people (kind of like in kill bill , you already know the end but the way to it becomes somehow more interesting )
By the way , My friend read on some LOST mega forum that they submitted ” The Shape Of Things To Come “.
I echo the sentiments of the first few comments. Ever since the writers were allowed to set a definite end date for the show, I think Lost has been stronger than ever. Season 4 has been excellent through and through, almost every episode has been great (perhaps with the exception of “The Other Woman,” but even that episode was OK). I’d also disagree that it’s getting away from its characters. In seasons 2 and 3 (which I still thought were quite good, just not as good as the first and most recent seasons) it felt like the writers were going too far into their characters. It was great getting the back stories of each character in season 1, but eventually there’s only so much you can tell about a character’s past before it becomes redundant. I loved seeing Jack’s relationship with his first wife develop, but did we really need to see his spiritual journey to Thailand? Jin and Sun provided a great story at first, but did we really need a full episode concerning Sun’s infidelity after we’d already established her wavering loyalty to Jin? Now in Season 4, the characters are more interesting before with us seeing how these characters we’ve come to know very well react to re-entering society. I don’t think Lost ever lost focus of its characters, the focus merely shifted to another side of them.
“Emmywatch” a new phenom. We’ll have to see how it goes. I agree with The Jack re: Lost. I’ve been a fan since the very first day and I miss the old characters’ story. I’m not going to jump ship though – I’ll stick it out. Even not-as-good Lost is better than most shows on TV.
hopefully The Constant will be the submitted episode it’s just so good. It’s sure to be HIC’s submission and sure to get him a nomination…
I dont really understand the argument that this season is no longer about the characters? Granted they are no longer about the characters they used to be about but still? On top of “The Constant”, there was “Meet Kevin Johnson”, “Eggtown”, “The Other Woman”, “Ji Yeon”, and “the Shape of Things to Come”, which were all about the characters and how they’ve changed and will continue to do so in the future. It’s no longer focusing on establishing who these people are, aside from Ben, Desmond, Elizabeth, Michael and the new four, because we know them. And because we know them we now watch who they become later on and see how the CHARACTERS change. We watch Sayid and Kate become almost completely different people! So im confused on why im the only one watching LOST and getting this out of it?
This article is bogus imo .
i can’t remember when i ever heard fans of the show complaining about character development .
season 4 reaches new hights , “the constant” , “the shape of things to come” and “ji yeon” come to mind first as brilliantly crafted episodes .
By the way , why no Emmywatch forum ?
Also, we should make it clear that Michael Emerson won a Guest Actor Emmy in 2001 for The Practice. I forgot about that.
I think this has season has been hardcore about it’s characters. Ben’s phenomenal last episode and of course, The Constant, are very character driven stories. What was the last sci-fi time travel story that had such an emotional resonance because of it’s characters as The Constant? I can’t think of any, really.
I still love Lost, but I agree this season isn’t quite as great. The Constant (the one with Desmond keeps switching between 2004 and 1996) was absolutely fantastic (and I loved the Vonnegut references) but otherwise the season has been mainly just enjoyable but not great. I’m hoping that in the end this will be the exposition season that we have to get through before the show goes back to it’s roots, sort of like in the Harry Potter books Order of the Pheonix was the bloated angst book you need to get through before the series gets back on track with Half Blood Prince.
I do agree with your comparison to 24, that is definately a show that forget what was great about it. Originally the show only worked so well because they had a bunch of terrific characters that were very well developed and had very interesting and believable relationships with each other. At the same time the show was also famous for it’s gutsyness when it came to killing off these characters and slowly thats what the show became, a show obsessed with shock value were character development takes the back seat.
Do critics of The Wire slight its creators for expanding the story every season? The creators of Lost have made it clear that each season is a different element of the story they are telling, and while some may regret that Lost has left the beach drama, others celebrate the new depth of storytelling its been achieving.
Also, to counter Christheking’s charge, the writers have maintained that they have had the show’s story plotted the whole time, the weaknesses in the second and third season’s filler material came from ABC not letting them set and end-date for the show. Once they did, the writers were able to finalize their timelines for the storytelling progress and the show hit the ground sprinting with Season 4. And not to seem simply contrarian, I’ll agree that Michael Emerson needs an Emmy (especially after last week’s stunner of a Ben-centric episode.) Likewise, now that Terry O’Quinn won, it’s time for my new favorite Lostie, Henry Ian Cusick, to take home his as well. Too bad their all “supporting actors”!
Frankly, this season’s episode “The Constant” is pound-for-pound the best episode I have seen on TV this year and stands head-to-head with Lost’s previous highlights (in my opinion, “Live Together, Die Alone” and “Walkabout”) if not eclipsing them.
I couldn’t disagree more. As someone who almost stopped watching in Season 2, I am now a huge fan again. When I started watching season 2 I was painfully reminded of the Twin Peaks series where one of my favorite filmakers,
David Lynch-just created a series of Bizarre sitiuations with no mind to story or purpose. It’s my belief that until the hand was forced, the creators of lost really didn’t know where this was all going-they were just throwing in strange things just to be strange. Now that they have an actual story to write-I think it’s getting close to brilliant again.
I’m somewhat disturbed with TV, just like movies that the idea of actually having a story arc is now being critized as if it’s somehow philistine. It’s like the Senfield philosophy has over taken everyone.
Love Lost & hope it cleans up. How Michael Emerson hasn’t won an award yet is beyond me.