The liberal left is going through a kind of transformational change in our fierce but sometimes off-target response to the Donald Trump administration. A barrage of outrageous injustices have hit us all at once that demand to be dealt with. So much so, in our sense of urgency, we often react in extreme ways to our collective fears about what this country is rapidly turning into. One of those ways this has manifest is the Oscar race, the statement it can make, and how that reflects on the film community that helps shape it. Woke White Oscar is especially careful not to be seen as off-key in any way with the newly formed resistance collective among us and upon us.
Each day, bloggers and critics and other well-meaning white people seek to signal their virtue on Twitter — with round-the-clock vigilance — in their sincere effort to stay on message, lest anyone misstep and be accused of sympathizing with the evil ones.
Of course, the desire to avoid rubbing anyone wrong has been going on for a long while in the Oscar race. Since forever. The risk of bristling has ebbed and flowed onto turbulent shores from the Civil Rights era to this day, though nothing significant changed as a result. There was Steven Spielberg making The Color Purple with all the best intentions but getting slammed all the same for being a white man telling the story of a gay black woman. All that changed after that was studios choosing to stay away from those subjects. While Kim Basinger championed Do the Right Thing on the Oscar stage — shaking her fist to rousing applause from the same Academy members that she accused of neglecting it — nothing really changed. Time and again, Woke White Oscar has led the charge to stand up for change but time and again that change came weakly or not at all.
No, in order to finally be effective, it really took activists from the black community, from black filmmakers, not the Woke White community, to bring that much-needed and long-delayed change. Ava DuVernay has been one of the driving forces of that change. The hashtag #oscarssowhite likewise stands as an effective milestone for change. Look at how the Academy transformed its membership in the past 4 or 5 years.
That is partly, maybe largely, because Twitter has given power to the powerless. Voice to the voiceless. It has gathered and emboldened like-minded groups who can retweet and favorite tweets that can sometimes rally a wave of uplift, and other times lead to boycotts. The Oscars broadcast itself was the target of boycott when it was pointed out that all 20 acting nominees were all white for the second straight year. And indeed, even now, a friend on Facebook has been doing yearly flashbacks to see which actor deserved to win that didn’t — and it’s shocking to see how, in all of these decades, there has been nothing but an endless pageant of white faces.
No one wants to go back, and thankfully there is little chance that we will. In 2018, we see the fruits of the turning point, with an abundance of black storytellers gracing the screen from the beginning of the year on through to the end. It is, in some ways, a renaissance. Not only are there numerous films that celebrate the richness of diversity, but those film are getting rave reviews and making insane box office.
A Wrinkle in Time (42% RT) – $100 million at the box office
Crazy Rich Asians (92% RT) – $173 million at the box office
Black Panther (97% RT) – $700 million at the box office, topping the year
BlackKklansman (85% RT) – $48 million
Sorry to Bother You (93% RT) – $17 million
The Hate U Give (96% RT) – $24 million
If Beale Street Could Talk (94% RT) – n/a
Widows (96% RT) – n/a
There is, however, something else to consider and it matters when making your Oscar predictions now. It’s relatively new element that must be factored into our thinking. And that’s the shitstorm that can erupt at the hands of Woke White Oscar. Both actual legit shitstorms that may erupt, and shitstorms that are fabricated by competitors who seek to sabotage any Oscar frontrunner. This sabotage can be direct — or it can be indirect. It can often be carried out by making a big deal out of something that isn’t a big deal. Woke White Oscar is easy to manipulate in that way because no one — NO ONE — wants to be seen as lenient toward racists or as a sexual predator apologist.
Woke White Oscar are prominent voices in the film community who lead with a sometimes strident strain of purity. They set the standard and everyone else must dutifully follow or else be called out for their inability to adhere to the rigid standard. That means, if someone labels a group of films about teenagers struggling with drugs or their sexual identity and those protagonists happen to be white, it’s suddenly a niche of “white boys in trouble” movies. If there is a story by a white filmmaker who tells the story of racism — that, too, is immediately suspect. White filmmakers are scrutinized if they tell black stories (Detroit) but if they tell white stories they’re called out for being “white boy in trouble” movies or whatever similar labels they assigned to First Man.
Mind you, very little of this comes from the black community itself. Why? Because it’s white people that still maintain much of the power in film criticism and in Hollywood. Things have changed but they haven’t changed that much. Woke White Oscar seeks redemption for itself in the era of Trump — with particular effort to distinguish white liberals from white Trump voters. They must prove every day that they aren’t like those racists at the Trump pep rallies. They do that by calling out anyone that stumbles clumsily into racial terrain. This is not unlike the Salem witch trials — which were an example of mass hysteria at the hands of an entire community wracked with fear of the devil’s influence. We are now that community, and we’re fearful of the devil’s influence. The devil, in this case, is Donald Trump and everything he stands for.
All of this to say that Woke White Oscar is jittery. Nervous. Ready and willing to pull the plug on any movie if there is even a whiff that voting for that movie if t might make people think you’re racist. In close contests, it can be enough to tip the balance the wrong way for a Best Picture contender, like La La Land, like Three Billboards.
I was already nervous about Green Book, knowing it was white filmmakers endeavoring to tell a story about race and racism — and the fraught topic of a casual racist undergoing redemption. No matter how well-intentioned the film (and it is; it’s about breaking through ingrained racist ideas and learning to love each other), at the end of the day it’s subject matter is too easy to boil down to a biting tweet and a catchy hashtag. And that will be that. The question that will demand answer is this: does this film adequately represent Woke White Film Twitter? The verdicts in cases like this are usually swift and harsh.
So last night, when an audience member called out Viggo Mortensen on Twitter for saying the N-word out loud, it instantly blew up to become a bone to pick, the Bungle du Jour to dissect. Did Viggo Mortensen reveal himself to be a secret racist? Did he do an unforgivable thing? He quickly released a statement of apology, promising never to do it again.
Saying the N-word out loud is rightly forbidden as something no white person can do — nobody who’s not black can ever say that word. Among the many reasons are the most obvious: that word spoken by anyone white is enormously offensive and traumatizing for African Americans to hear — since it’s symbolic of what can only be described as a holocaust in America, one that is ongoing. By eliminating that word our vocabulary — in any circumstance — a white person acknowledges respect for that trauma, which is the very least we can do to atone for the ugly history of some of our ancestors. It is a small price to pay, and not that big of an ask.
The thing is, though, is that this word is spoken out loud. In movies. It saturates some of Quentin Tarantino’s films. It flares up in Martin Scorsese’s The Departed. It’s in Saturday Night Fever. Coming from the mouth of a character onscreen it conveys a sting that can crystallize a time and place where people said the word, and it serves a brute narrative purpose as a self-inflicted indictment of the type of people who say it. No white person who’s sensitive to this can utter the word offscreen — not even when referencing or quoting an onscreen role. Something tells me Viggo is not plugged into the Woke White Twitter world as many of us are and thus, and doesn’t realize that saying the word out loud, regardless of context, can damage the movie that he’s out there to proudly promote — and perhaps derail his own career. He’s learned his lesson the hard way, but now his potential Oscar nomination (or win) is put in jeopardy.
People can stand on one side of incidents like this, on the finger pointing side, and protect themselves from being accused of understanding the horrible gaffe. And thus, Woke White Oscar is almost always on the finger pointing side of things — as they are fearful of being seen as anything less than stridently unerringly pure. That means that many of them will feel compelled to stand up and condemn Viggo publicly — even perhaps forgo voting for Viggo’s terrific performance privately.
Again, the reason this matters in the context of the Oscar predicting game, you have to factor the impact of Woke White Oscar. You have to know the people doing the predicting and whether they’re predicting purely on the basis of the performance — or if they’re subtracting points for the admittedly awful gaffe of saying the worst word that it’s possible to say.
Erik Anderson is currently predicting Ryan Coogler, Barry Jenkins and Spike Lee all to earn Best Directing nominations. He claims these as his predictions but what they may reflect — as they may reflect for many — are his own his heartfelt desires, his best Christmas wish list of what might be, of what could be. A roster of what should be, in a perfect world where no voters have any hidden or unspoken internal quota for how many black directors should be nominated in any given year.
Might there be enough voters who don’t think that way? There very well might. I think we would all dance for joy if one day we could get to a point where we believe change like that has truly and finally arrived. But we might also want to be pragmatic and understand the reality that adding 1500 new open-minded Academy members doesn’t immediately change the attitudes of some of the other 5500 people that have been Oscar voters since the far less enlightened 1950s.
The thing is, it probably hasn’t. White privilege is something you’re born with. Brought up with. That’s one of the messages of Green Book. You have the choice to be woke or not. But the choice is perhaps not so easy if you were born and raised 60 or 70 years ago when the wrong attitudes were baked into your childhood. One the other hand, if you’re born black in America — no matter what decade — you know the terrifying consequences of ingrained racism. You know that it means some shopkeepers will suspect you’re going to steal something. You know that playing with a water gun can scare some cops into shooting you first and checking the facts later, too late.
All of this said, I do not know how it all falls into place once the dust settles. How many of these successful films driven by black filmmakers will get nominated? How many that are not woke-white enough will be rejected? And every who’s concerned where this quandary has led us will wonder at what point do we start talking about art again.
All I can say to you, Oscar watchers, is that I’m just not sure how it’s going to go. But anyone who’s predicting would be wise to consider the power of Woke White Oscar. Many of them are so adamant and vocal because they want people to know how good they are, and to see them striving to eradicate racism from American culture one film award at a time. Can they help the starving children in Yemen? Nope. Can they do anything about child rape and enslavement at the hands of Isis? Nope. But this? Bringing a movie or an actor down on a bogus suspicion of racism? This they can do. And so they will.
Let’s do this. If any of you are still reading. Ask yourself, why is Green Book still my number one to win? It is an arbitrary thing. I think it’s the movie people like best. It will not be Woke White Oscar’s favorite movie. They fear they will lose their cred if they embrace it. But each frontrunner has its own obstacle. A Star is Born is a remake. Roma is black and white, in a foreign language and will win in the Foreign Language category already. Black Panther is a superhero movie. Can BlackKklansman win over the old-timer white dudes who have been neglecting Spike Leee over and over for nearly 30 years?
It’s a wide open race and with that in mind I have to go with the movie the people like the most and so far, that’s Green Book, which beat A Star is Born and Roma in Toronto.
Best Picture
1. Green Book
2. A Star is Born
3. Roma
4. BlacKKKlansman
5. First Man
6. Black Panther
7. The Favourite
8. If Beale Street Could Talk
9. Can You Ever Forgive Me
10. Widows
Still in play:
First Reformed
8th Grade
The Front Runner
Leave No Trace
Best Actor
Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born
Christian Bale, Vice
Viggo Mortensen, Green Book
Rami Malek, Bohemian Rhapsody
Hugh Jackman, The Front Runner
Also in play:
Ryan Gosling, First Man
John David Washington, BlacKkKlansman
Ethan Hawke, First Reformed
Matthew McConaughey, White Boy Rick
Lucas Hedges, Boy Erased
Lucas Hedges, Ben is Back
Chadwick Boseman, Black Panther
Best Actress
Lady Gaga, A Star is Born
Glenn Close, The Wife
Melissa McCarthy, Can You Ever Forgive Me
Olivia Colman, The Favourite
Viola Davis, Widows
Also in play
Julia Roberts, Ben is Back
Felicity Jones, On the Basis of Sex
Rosamund Pike, A Private War
Carey Mulligan, Wildlife
Elsie Fisher, Eighth Grade
Saoirse Ronan, Mary Queen of Scots
Kiki Layne, If Beale Street Could Talk
Nicole Kidman, Destroyer
Yalitza Aparicio, Roma
Toni Collette, Hereditary
Charlize Theron, Tully
Best Supporting Actor
Mahershala Ali, Green Book
Timothee Chalamet, Beautiful Boy
Richard E. Grant, Can You Ever Forgive Me
Adam Driver, BlacKKKlansman
Sam Elliot, A Star is Born
In play:
Sam Rockwell, Vice
Best Supporting Actress
Regina King, If Beale Street Could Talk
Emma Stone, The Favourite
Claire Foy, First Man
Nicole Kidman, Boy Erased
Margot Robbie, Mary Queen of Scots
Also in play:
Emily Blunt, A Quiet Place
Thomasin McKenzie, Leave no Trace
Marina de Tavira, Roma
Rachel Weisz, The Favourite
Vera Farmiga, The Front Runner
Danai Gurira, Black Panther
Best Director
Alfonso Cuaron, Roma
Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born
Spike Lee, BlacKKKlansman
Barry Jenkins, If Beale Street Could Talk
Peter Farrelly, Green Book or Damien Chazelle, First Man
Also in play:
Ryan Coogler, Black Panther
Marielle Heller, Can You Ever Forgive Me
Yorgos Lanthimos, The Favourite
Paul Schrader, First Reformed
Ryan Coogler, Black Panther
Jason Reitman, The Front Runner
Joel Edgerton, Boy Erased
Original Screenplay
Green Book, Nick Vallelonga, Brian Hayes Currie, Peter Farrelly
Roma, Alfonso Cuaron
The Favourite, Deborah Davis, Tony McNamara
Eighth Grade, Bo Burnham
First Reformed, Paul Schrader
In play:
Vice, Adam McKay
Adapted Screenplay
Nicole Holofcener, Jeff Whitty, Can You Ever Forgive Me
Eric Roth, Bradley Cooper, Will Fetters, A Star is Born
Barry Jenkins, If Beale Street Could Talk
Josh Singer, First Man
Gillian Flynn, Steve McQueen, Widows
In play:
Matt Bai, Jay Carson, Jason Reitman, The Front Runner
Joel Edgerton, Boy Erased
Charlie Wachtel, David Rabinowitz, Kevin Willmott, Spike Lee, BlacKkKlansman
Debra Granik, Anne Rosellini, Leave No Trace
Cinematography
Roma
A Star is Born
First Man
The Favourite
If Beale Street Could Talk
Editing
Black Panther
A Star is Born
First Man
Roma
Green Book
Production Design
Black Panther
The Favourite
Mary Poppins Returns
First Man
Crazy Rich Asians
Sound Mixing
A Star is Born
Mary Poppins Returns
First Man
Black Panther
A Quiet Place
Sound Editing
Black Panther
First Man
Roma
A Star is Born
A Quiet Place
Costume Design
Black Panther
Mary Poppins Returns
The Favourite
Mary Queen of Scots
BlacKKKlansman
Original Score
If Beale Street Could Talk
First Man
BlacKkKlansman
Widows
Black Panther
Makeup and Hair
The Favourite
Black Panther
Mary Queen of Scots
Animated Feature
Incredibles 2
Isle of Dogs
Dr. Seuss’ The Grinch
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Early Man
Documentary Feature
Won’t You Be My Neighbor
RBG
Three Identical Strangers
Minding the Gap
Free Solo
Foreign Language Feature
Roma (Mexico)
Cold War (Poland)
Capernaum (Lebanon)
Burning (South Korea)
Shoplifters (Japan)
It’s pretty remarkable that there are four films with African-American leads and black directors, one more with an African-American co-lead, and one with an all-Mexican cast and Mexican director among the likely nine. Will there be room for all? My scenario is that Black Panther will get in, displacing either Widows, BlackkKlansman, or Beale Street. I can revise based on how Widows and Beale do with critics and at box office. Will First Man get in as a (for once) token white guy overcomes the odds narrative or be rejected for that very reason? From personal opinion, I cannot imagine Ethan Hawke not getting a Best Actor nom. His stunning performance blew me away. Perhaps, though, the film will not be seen widely enough. Best Actor seems very fluid, with only Bradley and Viggo locks for noms in my opinion.
For those who feel the Oscars need to be more in touch with the public’s tastes, the 2018 People’s Choice Awards were given out last night, and the Movie of 2018 was ”Avengers: Infiinity War” (over ”Black Panther”). The Best Comedy was ”The Spy Who Dumped Me” (49% at Rotten Tomatoes; $33 million in U.S. grosses). It beat out fellow nominees: ”Love, Simon” (92% at Rotten Tomatoes; $40 million in U.S. grosses), and ”Crazy Rich Asians” (92% at Rotten Tomatoes; $173 million in U.S. grosses). And the People’s Choice for Best Drama was ”Fifty Shades Freed” (12% at Rotten Tomatoes; $100 million). It beat ”A Quiet Place” (95% at Rotten Tomatoes; $188 million). The people have spoken!
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/2018-peoples-choice-awards-winners-complete-list-winners-1153630/item/peoples-choice-awards-2018-movie-2018-1146329
“and the Movie of 2018 was ”Avengers: Infiinity War” (over ”Black Panther”).”
Now, I’ve still not been able to see the latter, but I love the former, so cheers for that!…
My guess for the big 8…
Picture
A Star is Born
BlackKklansman
Bohemian Rhapsody
The Favourite
Green Book
If Beale Street could Talk
Roma
… if 8: Can you ever forgive me?
… if 9: Vice
… if 10: Widows
Director:
Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born
Alfonso Cuarón, Roma
Barry Jenkins, If Beale Street could talk
Yorgos Lanthimos, The Favourite
Spike Lee, BlackKklansman
Actress:
Yalitza Aparicio, Roma
Glenn Close, The Wife
Olivia Colman, The Favourite
Lady Gaga, A Star is Born
Melissa McCarthy, Can you ever forgive me?
Actor:
Christian Bale, Vice
Bradley Cooper, A Star is Born
Rami Malek, Bohemian Rhapsody
Viggo Mortensen, Green Book
John David Washington, BlackKklansman
Supporting Actress:
Amy Adams, Vice
Claire Foy, First Man
Regina King, If Beale Street could talk
Emma Stone, The Favourite
Rachel Weisz, The Favourite
Supporting Actor:
Mahershala Ali, Green Book
Adam Driver, BlackKklansman
Sam Elliott, A Star is Born
Richard E. Grant, Can you ever forgive me?
Sam Rockwell, Vice
Adapted Screenplay:
BlackKklansman
Can you ever forgive me?
Crazy Rich Asians
First Man
If Beale Street could talk
(yup, I feel CRA may take A Star is Born’s spot here)
Original Screenplay
Eight Grade
The Favourite
Green Book
Roma
Vice
I agree with most of your predictions. I still think Ryan Gosling is safe for a nomination, unless First Man starts drastically underperforming at major precursors, and he misses a SAG or BAFTA nomination. But when it comes to nominating Gosling and Foy, I don’t see how in the world you can nominate one but not the other. I still think Timothee Chalamet is getting in for Supporting Actor, and he could win. I think BlacKKKlansman will do well in terms of nominations, but I don’t know if it’ll perform so well that it’ll get acting nominations. I also see Peter Farrelly getting in for Best Director instead of Barry Jenkins.
people still forget, Washington is the son of Denzel… Oprah is really likely to support BKKKM over If Beale Street could talk, and specially over Widows. BKKKM is too important in our Zeitgeist to pass the opportunity of a campaign that would be a synergy among everyone that would support a film like this, in this Trump age. Hollywood can be easily called to take sides, and not many are going to discuss it. Despite the highlights – performance-wise – would be (imho) Jasper Pääkkönen and Ashlie Atkinson, truth is that both Adam Driver and John David Washington are the likely contenders for obvious circumstances (one is well known and praised, the other one is a breakthrough living up to the hype of his father and giving a hell of a breakthrough performance, a star-making turn). I think SAG ensemble is likely (nom) and also noms for Driver (SAG, GG) and Washington (longshot at SAG maybe, but certain in GG where they split in two the contenders… if BKKKM goes as comedy and ASiB and Bohemian Rhapsody decide to go drama, Washington may even win)
Pääkkönen and Driver were my favorites.
I’m coming around to the idea that Green Book isn’t a bad prediction at all. It does seem to have fewer obstacles (mostly the Metacritic score thing, and I guess this Viggo thing now) to overcome than most – perhaps all – of the other movies involved in the BP race this year. And it (like ASIB and Roma) has also passed the test of the late October top 3 stat… I’m sticking with ASIB, for now, but Green Book looks like it might be a bigger threat than Roma, at the moment.
Edit: On the other hand, Sammy pointing out that Green Book might have issues getting into BD makes me reconsider… I don’t know. 🙂 It’s still too early, I guess…
You’re forgetting one other obstacle for Green Book. That the movie is trash.
Well, I haven’t seen it, so I can’t speak to that… 🙂 Plus, what Sammy said.
Speaking of Metacritic scores and their relationship with Best Picture winners. I found this curiosity with 2007 winner The Departed…
Around the time the film won Best Picture in February 2007, the Metacritic score was 85 (from 38 reviews) as evidenced by this screen capture from Web Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20070220215158/http://www.metacritic.com:80/video/titles/departed
However, The Departed’s Metacritic score JUMPED ONE POINT Up (it had one additional review) around September 2007 (seven months later) as indciated by this screen capture: http://web.archive.org/web/20070929132808/http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/departed/
Departed maintained it’s 86 score for roughly eight years until around December 2016 when it fell back to 85 despite having still exactly 39 reviews. Here is the screen capture: http://web.archive.org/web/20161213112756/http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-departed
Otherwise, 85/86 is the benchmark for Best Picture winners since 2007.
Wow, that’s very interesting!… In any case, 85 is a good cutoff. Especially for the preferential era.
Green Book has many things against it winning Best Picture:
1) Has to overcome it’s 69 Metacritic score. No film since The Departed (MC: 85) has won the big one. I know voters don’t log into Metacritic looking at each nominated films’ MC score, but it’s telling that that no film bellow 85 has won Best Picture especially considering that none below 86 has won in the preferential ballot era. You have to have some kind of critical consensus to get support (or just enough voters to really, really REALLY like).
2) Best Director is going to be a crowded field, and even though Argo’s BP win was really recent without Affleck’s nomination for Director which was five years ago, the previous instances before that was 23 years with Driving Miss Daisy in 1990, and you’d have to go back 57 years to 1933 for the next instance (Grand Hotel).
3) I can’t see Green Book reaping any technical/below the line nominations. Unless it gets some kind of surprise nomination for Film Editing or Original Song (which I highly doubt), it’s chances for getting support from the craft branches looks pretty paper thin to almost no existent. And that might be problematic since no film has won Best Picture without at least ONE craft category nomination since Ordinary People in 1981. Even Birdman had two Sound nominations and a Cinematography win under it’s belt.
Very well summed up! Indeed, it’s not just the Metacritic thing, when one thinks about it more…
When exactly did Annapurna decide to move If Beale Street Could Talk from November to a limited release in late December? I’d be curious for the rationale, but regardless I think the impact is that the film will struggle even more so to make an impact at the Oscars (even though I think it is quite good).
I’m probably on board with predicting nominations for Picture, Adapted Screenplay, and Supporting Actress (and perhaps Cinematography and/or Score), but everything else seems like a long shot now (Jenkins is #7 for Director on my list, in a tight race).
Also, I’m not sure how 42% on RT for A Wrinkle in Time constitutes “rave reviews” (I thought it was pretty terrible), but perhaps I’m missing something.
Is Natalie Portman in Vox Lux completely out of the picture? I love the trailer…
not a single mention of her or the film in this site, but she`s winning her 2nd oscar. Mark my words, Also think BD is a wide open field right now, with Cuaron as the only lock. Corbet would make the final five. Vox Lux is screening at AFI and reactions continue to be strong. I could see editing, screenplay and cinematography nods also coming. BP is Roma vs If Beale street could talk right now IMHO. Potential dark horses: The Mule / Vox Lux.
One thing that is becoming more and more obvious as months progresses, is “A Star is Born” can be thankful to the delay of the “Best Achievement in Popular Film” award, as it would have been the frontrunner for that one, limiting its chances tremendously at Best Picture… the likely nominees for that award, if it would have taken place…
A Quiet Place
A Star is Born
Black Panther
Bohemian Rhapsody
The Incredibles 2 (a hunch)
I love how Sasha posts a BP prediction list and then uploads a completely different list to GoldDerby 2 days later 😀
Spike Lee should win, but more than that, Blackkklanksman definitely have to Win in Editing.
I think so, too. But I wouldn’t mind it, if Bohemian Rhapsody would win editing. It’s probably its biggest strenght along with Malek and the Queen’s repertoire.
I’m a die hard Queen fan, and I enjoyed the movie. But one major thing wrong with it was they told the right stories, but got the timeline of 7-8 things really wrong.
Just out of Bohemian Rhapsody and oh my, it is this film really misunderstood, underestimated… the film is NOT a biopic in the end, but a look at the creative process and the insecurities of a genius itself. ***** / A-
The film actually benefits of the strong control May and Taylor had over the screenplay and what’s interesting to show and what is unnecessary, so the details of Mercury’s life don’t distract the basic structure of the narrative and how Queen became a family, more than a band. Maybe the best sequence is one of the quiest: the introduction of Jim Hutton. Singer lets himself loose creatively at basic moments using visual effects marvelously to underline the epicness of Queen (that shot into Wembley, ending around Mercury). Rami Malek becomes Freddy – specially in the second half of the film. The film in the end, becomes an experience and that’s why it’s so divisive between critcs and audiences… the critics considered it a watered-down version of what it could have been, a mere product… the band wanted to make it clear that the film would be about Queen and not about Mercury alone and they kind of achieved that… some cringy shots at the concerts, and the wish of more sharpness can’t make me avoid thinking this is a must see and not only for Queen fans.
Oscar wise:
Malek is locked up as hell. He might win. Those 20 final minutes… are unbeatable.
Being underestimated at Picture, Film Editing, Production Design, Cinematography, Costume, Make up and Hairstyle and both Sound. Longshot but possible at Director and Visual Effects (the Wembley stadium Live Aid concert is jawdropping).
I understand why critics are looking at it with desdain… but this is a film that can only win with time, once the controversy about not picking Sacha Baron Cohen (I agree with the band, it would have earned too much attention to him rather than the themes and core of the story) and the firing of Bryan Singer are basically forgotten.
Aaron McCusker would be a shoo-in for my Supporting Actor shortlist, had his role been bigger. It’s obvious that the surviving members liked Jim Hutton, as the portrayal of the character is impecable. Him meeting Freddy is my fave scene.
Lucy Boynton made a good impression, as well, I thought. But yeah, while to me the film was very flawed, Malek delivered throughout and should be a major threat in Best Actor.
For me, Boynton would be in the Supporting Actress conversation if she were in it a liiiiiittle more and if the reviews were a little better.
I don’t think the film was much flawed, on the contrary… I liked it, artistically, and have minor complaints. No masterpiece but an absolute must-see.
I’m glad it was such a great cinematic experience for you, it’s always nice to hear about those! 🙂
a bit of trivia… my late husband was one of the guests to one of Freddie’s parties in Munich, back in the time. So, when a Munich party was shown in the film, I couldn’t help weeping as a baby… my husband died last year, and knowing that most likely a Munich party would be portrayed, most likely, I doubted to even see the film, knowing what my reaction would be. It took me months to check out “Coco” as my grief for my husband and our best friend (aged 55 and 39 respectively and both died with only 35 days of difference) was too intense when the film was released, to deal with a film about afterlife. Right now I see the film just when the last member of my “german family”, my husband’s ex and business partner, whom we took care for since he lost a leg due to trombosis, has a tumor and is already suffering metastasis in the liver… so unless surprise, I will be the last remaining member of the family, by the end of the year. So yeah, not the best moment to see Bohemian Rhapsody for me, but I did it anyways.
take care, jesus. i think this took guts on your part. praise yourself. you deserve it. [of course i realize that i’m speaking way out of turn, since i don’t know you]
This is why I fell in love with films in the first place. No matter how devastating things may be going at the moment, there is a chance there for a brief moment in time to just go to a cinema near you, buy a ticket, take your seat, wait for the lights to go out and travel in time and space somewhere you’ve never been before, somewhere you can feel joy even when joy is the last thing you would expect to feel on that day. I’m very sorry for your loss.
It’s very flawed. Very. It’s cliche, rote and not one risk taken. A summary of events with no point of view. Spinal Tap level of nonsense for over an hour. All posing and little writing or drama. It’s far from a study of the creative process. The filmmaking in the Live Aid sequence consists of Malek, CGI crowd, close-up crowd, pub crowd, living room, REPEAT for 15 minutes. Enough. Very empty commercial gloss with a nice turn from Lucy Boynton.
well, on the contrary, I thought they really used the “because” as a guiding line to tell the story. The Rio scene is followed with a “because” what happened, they decided to make a sing-along song. Multiple examples through out the film, specially how Deacon interrupts the argument with this bass riff, forcing the band to focus again on creativity and giving birth to “Another one bites the dust”. The introduction of Jim Hutton – despite being invented for the film – is excellent, and it pays off wonderfully later in the film and actually propels the inner change of Mercury later in Munich. I repeat, the film seems safe, because people’s voyeuristic nature wanted more focus on the flashy life of Freddie but the film was always in control of May and Taylor, who prevented it becoming “Party Monster 2”, which it could perfectly have been. They addressed Mercury’s sexuality and drug problem, and they smartly played with the order of events to deliver an “encore” scene with the Live Aid, which is shot in a not so predictable way, with a couple of amazing shots… the fact of the repetitions of shots in that scene, it is one of the small flaws I see in the film, but I guess you can’t stop reminding the audience, what Live Aid actually was, Bob Geldof’s goal, and how it was the biggest live event in HIstory back at the time, followed live, everywhere. Minor flaws, in the end. I even liked Mike Myers cameo, and the reference to “Bohemian Rhapsody” as a song “noone would bang their heads to, in a car”.
The Live Aid sequence was awesome! But then again, they told 7-8 events at the wrong time. Like they do a montage of Fat Bottomed Girls on their first American tour, but that song doesn’t come out until 5 years later. We Will Rock You was recorded in 1977 (and before the short hair and mustache), not 1980 as portrayed in the film. Freddie didn’t get AIDS until two years after Live Aid. Also, one nitpicking thing that I had was Ben Hardy could’ve learned Roger Taylor’s accent. Roger Taylor doesn’t have a deep London accent. He has a high and scratchy Yorkshire accent.
because the film doesn’t try to be historically accurate but faithful to the spirit of the band… putting some things in the right chronological order wouldn’t work that well, cinematically speaking… and they wanted to end the film with Live Aid… if they didn’t force the AIDS diagnose before, the film would have ended with a depressing note, rather than with the audience in ecstasy. An artistic wise decission, in my point of view.
BlacKKKlansman has a 95 on Rottentomatoes. Not 85.
100% CotC 8,6 average… which means basically, masterpiece.
The European Film Award nominees:
EUROPEAN FILM 2018
BORDER (Sweden, Denmark), dir: Ali Abbasi
COLD WAR (Poland, UK, France), dir: Pawel Pawlikowski
DOGMAN (Italy, France), dir: Matteo Garrone
GIRL (Belgium, Netherlands) dir: Lukas Dhont
HAPPY AS LAZZARO (Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland), dir: Alice Rohrwacher
EUROPEAN DOCUMENTARY 2018
A WOMAN CAPTURED (Hungary, Germany), dir: Bernadett Tuza-Ritter
BERGMAN – A YEAR IN A LIFE (Sweden, Germany), dir: Jane Magnusson
OF FATHERS AND SONS (Germany, Syria, Lebanon, Qatar), dir: Talal Derki
THE DISTANT BARKING OF DOGS (Denmark, Finland, Sweden), dir: Simon Lering Wilmont
THE SILENCE OF OTHERS (Spain, U.S.), dirs: Almudena Carracedo & Robert Bahar
EUROPEAN DIRECTOR 2018
Ali Abbasi, BORDER
Matteo Garrone, DOGMAN
Samuel Maoz, FOXTROT
Paweł Pawlikowski, COLD WAR
Alice Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
EUROPEAN ACTRESS 2018
Marie Bäumer, 3 DAYS IN QUIBERON
Halldóra Geirharðsdóttir, WOMAN AT WAR
Joanna Kulig, COLD WAR
Bárbara Lennie, PETRA
Eva Melander, BORDER
Alba Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
EUROPEAN ACTOR 2018
Jakob Cedergren, THE GUILTY
Rupert Everett, THE HAPPY PRINCE
Marcello Fonte, DOGMAN
Sverrir Gudnason, BORG/MCENROE
Tomasz Kot, COLD WAR
Victor Polster, GIRL
EUROPEAN SCREENWRITER 2018
Ali Abbasi, Isabella Eklöf & John Ajvide Lindqvist, BORDER
Matteo Garrone, Ugo Chiti & Massimo Gaudioso, DOGMAN
Gustav Möller & Emil Nygaard Albertsen, THE GUILTY
Paweł Pawlikowski, COLD WAR
Alice Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
EUROPEAN COMEDY 2018
LE SENS DE LA FETE (France), dirs: Eric Toledano & Olivier Nakache
DIAMANTINO (Portugal, France, Brazil), dirs: Gabriel Abrantes & Daniel Schmidt
THE DEATH OF STALIN (France, UK, Belgium), dir: Armando Iannucci
EUROPEAN ANIMATED FEATURE FILM 2018
ANOTHER DAY OF LIFE (Poland, Spain, Belgium, Germany, Hungary), dirs: Raul de la Fuente & Damian Nenow
EARLY MAN (UK), dir: Nick Park
THE BREADWINNER (Ireland, Canada, Luxembourg), dir: Nora Twomey
WHITE FANG (France, Luxembourg), dir: Alexandre Espigares
Personal rankings from what I’ve seen:
EUROPEAN FILM 2018
1. HAPPY AS LAZZARO (Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland), dir: Alice Rohrwacher
2. COLD WAR (Poland, UK, France), dir: Pawel Pawlikowski
3. GIRL (Belgium, Netherlands) dir: Lukas Dhont
4. BORDER (Sweden, Denmark), dir: Ali Abbasi
5. DOGMAN (Italy, France), dir: Matteo Garrone
EUROPEAN DOCUMENTARY 2018
1. THE DISTANT BARKING OF DOGS (Denmark, Finland, Sweden), dir: Simon Lering Wilmont
EUROPEAN DIRECTOR 2018
1. Alice Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
2. Paweł Pawlikowski, COLD WAR
3. Samuel Maoz, FOXTROT
4. Ali Abbasi, BORDER
5. Matteo Garrone, DOGMAN
EUROPEAN ACTRESS 2018
1. Joanna Kulig, COLD WAR
2. Alba Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
3. Eva Melander, BORDER
EUROPEAN ACTOR 2018
1. Victor Polster, GIRL
2. Marcello Fonte, DOGMAN
3. Tomasz Kot, COLD WAR
4. Sverrir Gudnason, BORG/MCENROE
EUROPEAN SCREENWRITER 2018
1. Alice Rohrwacher, HAPPY AS LAZZARO
2. Paweł Pawlikowski, COLD WAR
3. Ali Abbasi, Isabella Eklöf & John Ajvide Lindqvist, BORDER
4. Matteo Garrone, Ugo Chiti & Massimo Gaudioso, DOGMAN
EUROPEAN COMEDY 2018
1. THE DEATH OF STALIN (France, UK, Belgium), dir: Armando Iannucci
2. DIAMANTINO (Portugal, France, Brazil), dirs: Gabriel Abrantes & Daniel Schmidt
EUROPEAN ANIMATED FEATURE FILM 2018
1. EARLY MAN (UK), dir: Nick Park
2. ANOTHER DAY OF LIFE (Poland, Spain, Belgium, Germany, Hungary), dirs: Raul de la Fuente & Damian Nenow
(in animated both are pretty bad, though)
Great list – I wish Woman at War was nominated for best film though. Same with The Guilty.
Seeing the love for Happy as Lazzaro, it seems weird Tardiolo (playing Lazzaro) did not get in.
Especially since Sverrir Gudnason, who is really not good in his role, got nominated instead
I find the absence of “The Death of Stalin” in Picture, Director, Screenplay and Actor, really depressing. At least it has an extremely well deserved Comedy nom.
I get that people like Green Book but it is not winning Best Picture. The movie adds nothing we have not seen before ( A Star is Born has the same problem). Roma will win Best Picture because it has no real competition. All the other films are good movies but Roma is Art.
Roma is indeed art, but the average voter will not appreciate it ..their tastes are more mundane and less highbrow
ASIB , like Greenbook, has been done before, so to speak, but ASIB is about them, the folks in showbiz , and they’ll never get tired of it ..it strokes their egos , flatters them, and gives them something they can identify with and relate to
Roma will NEVER win BP …and you can frame this comment for posterity !
Supposedly the movie didn’t play too well at at least Middleburg (if I remember the name of the festival correctly), where the audience was exactly the Academy type. The audience was supposedly respectful of the movie but not in awe of it. Could it be that Roma, while a major hit with the critics, is too “artsy” to appeal to Academy members?
Repeating my point from below: if Roma was too artsy for Academy members, shouldn’t Anne Thompson know? She said she heard fantastic reactions from members, and that the voters will love it. It just doesn’t feel right to think she is misjudging their taste.
This really is the reason why I generally dislike anecdotal evidence (I just mentioned it here to question the idea of “Roma has no competition”), there is always conflicting anecdotal evidence to be found. I don’t think that Thompson (who I have the highest respect for) will definitively know whether that’s the case as will no one else before the precursors start to come out (where Roma could easily be snubbed by PGA, SAG, WGA and the BAFTAs but could also win most of them)
Just curiosity: how is it known that the audience respected but not loved the film? Was there a poll or something?
Clayton Davis said this. He compared it to the NYFF screening he went to and said that whereas at the end of the NYFF screening everyone seemed genuinely amazed, at Middleburg the crowd reaction at the end wasn’t as strong. Also, I think he said he asked several people about the film and that seemed to be a reaction many of them had
Briefly on Viggo. He shouldn’t have said it. He apologized. Ali acknowledged the inappropriateness (in general and/or in whichever context) of it and has forgiven him. I don’t think this hurts Viggo’s chances of a nom. I do think it’ll probably hurt his chances for a win (I think Cooper is the fave anyway; and perhaps Bale upon release). And this may hurt Green Book too; though, it’s lack of substantial nominations would hurt it, anyway.
My current predictions/thoughts for the acting races:
-Cooper, Viggo, Bale, Eastwood (I think The Mule will be big), Malek/Gosling (coin toss).
-Close, Gaga, Colman, McCarthy, Davis (these feel like consensus 5 unless someone upsets the apple cart; I think Emily Blunt is in that prime position).
-Ali, Chalamet, Elliot, E. Grant, Pryce (my wildcard), but I feel like Driver is right in there.
-King, Adams, Weisz, Stone, Kidman, Foy (I literally can’t whittle those 6 to 5). Agh!!!
The Girl in the Spider’s Web: I realized during this just how much I miss seeing a Fincher movie on the big screen. Mindhunter is great but the idea that something is only partly directed by Fincher frustrates me a little. And I can’t help but think that if he had actually been allowed to make the rest of the Millenium trilogy, he might have found a way to quench an interest in long-term storytelling on the big screen at least for a little while rather than directing about 40% of something.
Also, apparently the Park Chan-wook miniseries/film (there doesn’t seem to be enough data to define it as one or the other yet) has apparently premiered. Why is no one talking about this?
moar 6-hr movies pls!
I think The Little Drummer Girl has not quite premiered in the USA yet, Ferdinand. Looks like we have to wait till November 19.
I’ve seen the first two hours though, and wow wow wow.
I’m so happy to hear that. I couldn’t imagine Park producing something bad, especially with somone like le Carré being behind the story, but it’s great to hear that it’s actually of substantial quality
We love Le Carré novels because of his dense knotty plotlines, his shady morality plays, and the nuanced slippery alliances he sets in motion.
It’s really hard to translate all that onscreen, to keep all those moving parts in flux and maintain the fluid clarity, while at the same time conveying the complex intellect.
Judging by the first two hours, Park has done a masterful job with Little Drummer Girl. It’s riveting, emotionally engaging, and it’s also beautiful to behold.
I’m loving how it refuses to let the viewer latch onto any easy answers about what’s right and wrong with each characters goals and motivations. Their bonds and betrayals. Crummy people doing good things, good people doing rotten things. And the actors are relishing the complexity. It’s fun, smart, gorgeous.
This is a very astute observation. One of the things that impressed me about Fincher’s direction of “Dragon Tattoo” was the enormous and confidently maintained *scale* of the picture. Fincher (helped tremendously by Mara’s focused rage and Craig’s cool nonchalance) was priming us to learn much more of Lisbeth’s life story and her expanding, edgy, angry self-empowerment. The script leaving her at the end estranged (but for how long?) from Blomkvist was a clear indication that these two people were only beginning to understand one another. The movie was *HUGE* yet Fincher’s camera glided through every master shot, closeup, fast-action cut and icy backdrop. It’s one of the most stylistically bold, self-assured movies of (at least) the last 10 years. I liked the Scandinavian version with Noomi Rapace, but I continue to wish that Fincher had been able to amplify and complete his vision.
The problem with the Dragon Tattoo has nothing to do with Fincher only the source material. Lisbeth is a great character but the actual mystery is dull and Daniel Craig’s character is uninteresting.
I don’t know, to me the contemplations that the mystery seemed to operate on a thematic level about the twisted and disturbing elements still existing and studying the damage they caused even under the folkhemmet era in Swedish politics as well as the opulent wealth, greed and self-interest that was possible even under such a structure were extremely fascinating, even if the mystery itself was a bit plain (I have no idea whether the folkhemmet era was Larsson’s or especially Fincher’s interest or whether it’s even an imaginable interpretation for those who know more about the era but that’s what it seemed to link to for me)
To Jesus alonzo
I’ve seen bohemian rhapsody 3 times in just one week. It’s my favorite film of 2018, unless green book if Beale street could talk or mortal engines impress me which are last bunch of films that I want to watch in 2018.
T
so far it’s on my #6 place, and plenty to see yet – big guns. My top 5, if curious… #1 The Death of Stalin #2 BlackKklansman #3 Avengers: Infinity War #4 A Quiet Place #5 The Incredibles 2
So basically you think it’s going to win, but if you had a ballot it wouldn’t be on it, since it’s your #6. Come on, Jesus.
I barely got through it once. Rote, by the numbers, cliche and for an hour like a Spinal Tap redux. The entire first hour is essentially a montage. No depth. Only in the second hour does it have a few flashes of drama. Really thought he was given less a character to play than a series of poses, which he struck well.
The Aretha Franklin documentary Amazing Grace, about the making of her legendary 1972 gospel album, is finally going to be released, and will play in LA to meet Oscar eligibility rules. Surely the film should now be considered a strong contender for Best Documentary.
Erik from AwardsWatch here. I’m not predicting Coogler at the moment. I have four of the same five you do; Cuaron, Cooper, Jenkins, Lee. Then I have Lanthimos in where you have Farrelly. Like you, Coogler is next up, I have him at #6.
Hi Erik – could you advise on your skepticism towards Farrelly in Director? I think Cuaron, Cooper, Lee, and Lanthimos are well-positioned for various reasons, and I could see Chazelle, Jenkins, and Farrelly fighting for the fifth spot (depending on where Black Panther ultimately falls).
Get over it people . Much ado about nothing . Viggo was making a
point . Why don’t we crucify him . Had anyone seen Sam Fuller’s great film White Dog . Probably not. The reason being it was a film about a Dog trained to attack black people so it was a racist film . Not even close . White Dog is probably one of the most non-racist humane films even made and it was destroyed . Context is everything .
Is it just me or did the n-word protocol change in the last couple of years? I feel like not that long ago African Americans generally didn’t express offense by white people saying that word when in quotation context like what Mortenson was in that press conference (essentially just using the actual word instead of “n-word”). Like, I feel like when I was growing up people saw a clear difference between that and actually calling someone the word, and I’m not that old. It feels like it was only in the last five years or so that it changed from being a word that was offensive for the thought behind it to being treated as a pair of demon syllables the utterance of which instantly offends no matter what. Or was I just being naive in the past?
I have big problem with the banning of this word. Too much to get into. But let me say this, why is it okay that Rappers use it all the time? Why is it okay for black people to say? And you point is spot on. Using against some or using to point out the word itself is quite different. Viggo did not use it to describe someone and was merely pointing out how the word is no longer used as it once was. He was not being racist but he was not thinking and insensitive. That’s all.
“He was not thinking and insensitive.”
That’s plenty enough.
Bobby Peru … is your email still s_______01 ?
I sent you a note just now. It’s a nice note.
“Why is it okay for black people to say?”
Good point! If it’s THAT offensive that just hearing it said out loud, in any context, is hurtful, because it reminds people of a very dark chapter in the history of mankind (to put it as neutrally as possible), then why should anybody get to use it?! What good can come of it?
For starters, white people overwhelmingly voted for an unmitigated racist and his Tea Party associates.
For starters, white people overwhelmingly voted for an unmitigated racist.
None of those people writes about movies or makes movies.
They can barely write a grocery list or stay awake during a movie.
I wish the Tea Party were still our worst problem.
The Tea Party has dissolved to insignificance.
It’s the Nazi Party and that worries me now.
White men have leaned Republican for decades. That’s nothing new. 55-60% of white men dolts would vote for a dried turd if it were racist enough and promised to lower their taxes a nickel.
Overall, 57% of white people voted for Trump. (btw, 59% of white people voted for Romney in 2012.)
That’s sickening but I wouldn’t call it “overwhelming.”
Overwhelming to me means insurmountable, unbeatable.
Hillary voters beat those idiots by 3 million votes.
If you read the right news sources, you might have heard the rumors: The 2016 election was stolen.
Trump didn’t win it, he was given it, as a gift, from Putin.
Israel and Saudi Arabia were in on the fuckery too.
While there definitely was meddling, saying Trump won only because some powers “gifted” him the victory would be, I think, a grave misunderstanding of the actual “Trump phenomenon” and would hinder Democrats in finding a good answer to Trump.
Troll won because of 70k votes scattered across 3 states that were targeted by Russian disinformation .
70k gullible jackasses who wasted their 70k votes on Jill Stein and writing in Harambe the Gorilla on their valuable ballots.
Democrats already know the answer to that. Expose the traitors. Prevent voter suppression. Educate voters about Russian meddling.
And most importantly: register 5 million new reliable liberal voters who are not pouty gullible jackasses.
That’s how we won back the House this week in the biggest Democrat landslide of the past 40 years.
That’s how we demolish Trump. By exposing his Russian conspiracy efforts and drowning him in his own treasonous cauldron of shit.
We destroy him by preventing ALL the ways he cheated. Not by wondering what Hillary did wrong. She did nothing wrong. She fucking won. She had her presidency stolen.
Unless we admit that, then the thieves will keep stealing elections. The GOP are election theft specialists. They stole it from Gore in 2000. They stole it from Hillary.
They stole Obama’s Supreme Court seat.
They’re trying to steal the governorship from Stacy Abrams in Georgia.
If we are afraid to admit that elections are being stolen , it will just keep happening.
If Trump narrowly lost the election, instead of narrowly winning, Democrats would still need to answer the same problem. If he is such a monster (and I’m not suggesting that he isn’t), why did 63 million people still vote for him? Why was it close in the first place? Are all 63 million people monsters? I don’t buy that. There’s a reason why so many different people (from traditional wealthy Republicans to white working-class people) supported a racist, misogynistic, inexperienced showman rather than a well-prepared classical politician. That’s the question that needs answering, and a similar election in 2020, even if it results in a Democratic victory, will not answer it.
63 million Trump voters are not monsters.
The breakdown maybe looks something like this.
10 million hateful monsters and monster-admirers. Easily.
10 million inbred gun-nut racists. Easily.
10 million limpdick misogynists. Easily.
10 million reckless goofs who thought it would be fun to see what a clown in the White House might do.
10 million barely literate jackasses who can’t understand all the big words Hillary uses and resent her for being so smart.
10 million mindless Fox News zombies who have been systematically brainwashed by Rupert Murdoch since 1985, for literally their entire adult lives.
3 million very happy multimillionaires and billionaires who are grateful that all the monsters, racists, jackasses, mysogynists, and gullible goofs can be so easily mindfucked and manipulated. Happy because the oligarchy they’ve invested in has paid off so well, elevating them to even sicker levels of astronomical vulgar wealth.
If you live in a city or state where half the people around you don’t match a scary variation of one of the above categories, then you’re lucky. But these people exist in America in horrifically large numbers.
10 million people is 3% of Americans.
You dont think it’s possible that 3% of Americans are racists?
3% don’t resent smart women?
3% dont enjoy watching clownish disasters?
3% think Maddow talks too fast but jack off to Tomi Lahren?
3% are not dumb as dogshit?
Drive coast to coast on two-lane backroads. Find out.
I feel like not that long ago African Americans generally didn’t express offense by white people saying that word when in quotation context like what Mortenson was in that press conference (essentially just using the actual word instead of “n-word”).
MJS, I believe you’re right — especially in terms of saying or the writing the word when the only intention is to specify that the word is wrong to say in other contexts.
And Sasha makes the point herself in this piece, where she points out that the people who are making a big deal about Viggo’s carelessness are white observers who are policing white behavior.
I bet a lot of black people just roll their eyes at yet another white person speaking without thinking.
I also bet that an incident like this is far down the list of things that most black people are very concerned about.
This piece is headlined Woke White Oscars because it’s mostly the woke white people who are gasping about this.
Mahershala Ali just weighed in eloquently and said it actually was a big deal, inappropriate and “hurtful,” and that white people using the term in any context is wrong and “not up for debate.”
You “bet a lot of black people..”? Exactly, because you don’t know. Its not your word to reclaim, justify or excuse so just STFU. How the hell do you know whether black people are upset or not about this?! Did you take a poll??
!I bet” implies he is guessing. But really his main point is that people who are upset that he come around are white people. It’s true that it’s usually them who tend to be offended as trying so hard not be seen to be associated with or legitimising using racial or other derogatory words. They seem to think they are doing the right and in most cases they are but in some cases they just jump the shark and seem to lose all perspectives. This is clearly one of those cases. I am sure that Ali and leading black filmmakers will set the record straight and point it was an unthinking and insensitive moment by Mortensen. It’s wasn’t done deliberately and he apologised. That’s all.
Agree. Mahershala Ali was VERY upset and said it was not up for debate and wrong for Mortensen to say it.
So Mahershala agrees with Viggo that Viggo fucked up. Mahershala agrees with all decent people that Viggo fucked up.
We knew that already. That was never in doubt.
The point of this post is what punishment Viggo should suffer
and how much damage will the mob need into inflict on Viggo before people like Bobby Peru move on the next outrage, the next bone to gnaw on.
This brief mess blew up quickly and then it was corrected just as quickly.
Lessons learned, lessons taught. Attitudes enlightened.
As a result, a good man became a better man.
Just exactly like the plot of the movie —
— the movie that Mahershala and Viggo agreed to make together because it reflects realities that will always flare up and will always need to be addressed.
And hopefully settled with apologies and forgiveness.
The only question raised by Sasha in this post is whether or not Viggo should be dragged any further, and whether this should destroy Viggo’s shot at an Oscar.
Ask Mahershala if he thinks this should disqualify Viggo.
Ask Mahershala if he’s not gonna vote to nominate Viggo or not vote to nominate Green Book over this crude gaffe.
I bet I know the answer.
I bet Mahershala is a better man than you, Bobby Peru.
I bet Mahershala is a better person than you, Europa.
By the way, ‘Bobby.’ We see right through you.
Of course you want this to wreck Viggo’s chances.
Of course you fucking hope it does damage to Green Book.
Of course you want to stir the pot of shit, dude.
Because all you care about is gleefully wallowing in this overblown nonsense.
Because it clears a major obstacle for your fetish for A Star Is Born and your fetish for Bradley Cooper.
We see you. We get it.
We get it because you keep proving it.
Tell me I’m wrong, Bobby Peru.
Go ahead and lie to everyone on this site and tell me I’m wrong.
I wish I had read this before basically making the exact same point and valid af accusation. But yeah, this is basically it.
I saw disqus say “One other person is typing” …
I was hoping it might be Mahershala or Viggo.
But you’re the next best choice to bring sanity to this thread, Phantom, my friend.
Of course, we’ve been fighting trolls here together for what, a decade now ? And let’s face it it’s not like today will be the day when we will start letting this kinda shit fly around here.
“together for what, a decade now ?”
11 years!
I’m gonna lie and say something like “aw, so since I was 8, huh ?”, simply because I’m still in denial about turning 30 recently 🙂
What does ASIB have to do with this thread?
This is hyperbole Ryan. My point of view on the whole Viggo thing (and I completely adore his performance in the film and like the film quite a lot) is that it was poor judgement; very poor. And that all this talk about “context” is irrelevant. It should not have been said and I couldn’t see how that could happen. If everyone wants to conflate that with my appreciation of A STAR IS BORN, they can go ahead. No worries on this front because A STAR IS BORN is about my 7th favorite film this year, behind a whole slew of them that are not in the conversation (THE RIDER, DISOBEDIENCE, LEAVE NO TRACE). But if you think my comments are so transparently designed because I worship A STAR IS BORN then you’re wrong, sorry. Though I do think it’s a far better film. As far as me having a “fetish for Bradley Cooper,” far from it, though if you’d like to talk merits of his performance, degree of difficulty, preparation, transformation or any other film-related angles of substance I’m happy to. Painting me as a fangirl of Bradley Cooper is absurd and frankly, I have a stronger film acumen and pedigree than that silliness. I’m not sure what point of view you think I’m coming from but I am in the business and take my work seriously. I’m not a fan club president “stirring a pot of shit” and to your point about Ali being a “better person” than me, it’s one of the strangest things I’ve heard yet. I’ve met Mahershala Ali and I can tell you that he’s no better/nor worse than I or anyone else; he just does a different job than I happen to. So the flip dismissal of my character as somehow lesser is patently absurd. As far as “moving on the next outrage,” I’d like you to point out anything that I’ve written that would suggest that I’m prone to SJW-ism or causes or political correctness. In fact, the opposite is true — I typically write (and more on Jeff’s board) about film from an objective point of view and always, always give supporting examples to my assertions or arguments. So your painting me as a social justice warrior fangirl that “you see” is , frankly, the wrong brush.
Good answer, Bobby Peru.
Very good answer.
==
Interested to hear about your position in and connection to the industry.
Can you tell us in loose terms without disrupting your anonymity?
Not that Ryan isn’t perfectly capable to defend his argument, but for the record, Europa / Bobby, you are in dire need of a reality check so here it is : you are both rather shamelessly taking bits and pieces from Ali’s statement and present them without context in a lame attempt to keep alive a faux controversy that is bound to be forgotten any minute now and obviously you feel the need to do this because the film in question, Green Book has the nerve to be a major threat for the win in Best Picture / Best Actor, a possibility you can’t fathom since you both have already decided that those awards belong to A Star is Born / Bradley Cooper.
You both just emphasise that Ali found Mortensen’s statement ” hurtful”, “VERY hurtful” even and conveniently forget to acknowledge the key content of Ali’s statement that was all about understanding, perspective and forgiveness. Not that you haven’t read it already because you clearly have, but just for the record, here is Ali’s full statement :
“However well-intended or intellectual the conversation may have been, it wasn’t appropriate for Viggo to say the n-word. He has made it clear to me that he’s aware of this, and apologized profusely immediately following the Q&A with Elvis Mitchell. Knowing his intention was to express that removing the n-word from your vocabulary doesn’t necessarily disqualify a person as a racist or participating in actions or thoughts that are bigoted, I can accept and embrace his apology.”
Case closed.
I’m doing a fairly messy job of defending my position, Phantom, so I very much appreciate your articulate and level-headed help.
Yeah, AD vets get each other’s back, fanatic newbies like these two better learn this little tidbit fast. The irony is that they will be precisely the reason why ASIB, a decent (though flawed) movie, will face a massive backlash come January because there is no way people won’t be fed up with this fanboy shit if they keep it up for three more months on top of the three we’ve already endured since Venice.
We know Bobby Peru. We’ve always liked Bobby Peru.
He’s always welcome here and we appreciate his point of view. Usually.
But… he is behaving a little strangely this season… so I’ve been trying to give him a wide berth.
I’ll stay out of his way as long as he doesn’t do exactly what Sasha predicted that some people will try to do: puff up all haughty on his safe pedestal of purity and try to point a finger at me..
…When all I’m trying to do is help people see the difference between hatefully calling someone the N-word — as opposed to saying the word in the process of examining the word itself.
I stand corrected, sorry for pulling an accidental Mariah, I honestly didn’t recall Bobby from previous seasons. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7122b0603814f1f2879364b715a16e2956a8a84e6617f9daeb03d7dfe8cca37f.png
Bobby was a lot more lowkey last year.
He liked more than one movie last year.
He liked more then one actress last year.
Last year Bradley Cooper didn’t cast a spell on Bobby.
Are you at your same email, Phantom? I sent you a note just now.
“We”?
We the AD community and we the AD staff.
Know who we don’t know? You.
But Ryan, you know I love puffing myself up haughtily! And thanks, likewise. 🙂 I didn’t realize that I was acting strangely this season; now you’re forcing me into analysis of everything I may have posted…
You’re fine, Bobby Peru.
There’s been a lot of backlash to a movie you like and you’re just going to bat a lot to defend it.
You’re hitting back a lot at a lot of attacks, but it’s not your fault that there have been so many attacks.
We all regret that Viggo said what he said and we’re all glad that Viggo regrets it too.
Instead of Viggo saying “Nobody says Ni66er anymore” – as he recklessly blurts out the word…
…think how much more fun this debate would be if Viggo had said “Nobody whips their dick out anymore” – as he recklessly whipped his own dick out to demonstrate.
That’s the kind of kerfuffle America needs right now.
If you’re talking about me, “Phantom,” I’m far from a “newbie” — I’ve been here for a good decade. But I’m happy to be called a fanatic because you know, I advocate for what I think is the best.
Like everyone.
Huh?
And yet Ryan isn’t the one trying to convince anyone who will listen that a very clear and straightforward statement about forgiveness and understanding is actually about grudge, animosity, and feud.
If you have a black friend who is more concerned about Viggo’s gauche slipup than 100 issues far more important to black people then please invite your friend to come visit this site and correct my assumption.
If you have any black friends. In Sydney.
No black person I know would be “upset” about an insulated privileged white dude saying something randomly clumsy and stupid.
If they were, they would be “upset” 24/7 every day of the year. Black people I know shrug off shit like this.
Meanwhile, is there anything I can do to help you extinguish your hair that’s on fire?
So I’m the one with the problem. Gotcha. Go say that word to a black friend and see how they react. Speaking of..dont project your “black friends” issues onto me. I’m not the one defending the N word, dude.
I’m not defending the N word.
(But of course you know that. You’re only doing precisely what Sasha predicted people like you would try to do: pillory anyone who refuses to crucify Viggo over this.)
I’m saying you’re an imbecile if you’re trying to brand someone a racist if they say the N-word out loud in a bungled effort to discuss the menace of the fucking word itself.
Are you truly so thickheaded that you’re unable to see the difference between aiming the N-word at a black person as a hateful insult — and equating that hate with a guy who uttered the word in a clumsy effort to emphasize how bad it is?
Try once more to accuse me of “defending the N-word” and find out how fast you reach the dead-end where you’re headed.
We don’t tolerate absurd mischaracterization and slander around here. We defend our readers against it and we defend our staff against it.
You should please take a break before you make things worse for yourself.
I respect you a great deal but in this case I’d like to point out that black people may roll their eyes and shrug it off but that is because they have generations of being used to this. The white woke people Sasha is ragging on may in your view be going overboard but would it be better for them to shrug at the use of terms like this instead? How would it go over to simply tell black people to get over it if someone uses the word no matter the context. YOU aren’t going there but one gets the impression many here are when they toss terms like PC around.
What is being pushed in my opinion is a deliberate over-correction so that when the new norm sets in it will be to ensure that terms like this aren’t used in any way close to inappropriately. The same way “No means No” was treated with this same eye rolling when women started raising the issue of sexual harassment. Men then were also able to point to some token women who said they thought it was over kill and no big deal. Not to mention the use of the term queer (which still makes me queasy). Gay men can use it all they want and often with pride, but would you have felt the same way if Viggo were to have used that term in the same context?
P.S. Reading more I understand where you are coming from and definitely agree with the point that there is a difference in intent. But I’d also like to see us encourage allies rather than dismiss them. Chances are people who are the most indignant may have been the greatest culprits before. Like ex-smokers and their feelings about cigarettes. ; )
If Viggo used the word queer in the same context?
What he said was “Nobody uses the word ‘n****r’ anymore.” (And we know from context of the discussion that he meant “nobody decent or civilized uses the word.”)
So if he had said “Nobody uses the word queer anymore.” ?
…I would honestly not flinch or wince or blink an eye. It would wash right over me. He’s discussing the word, he’s not using it. He’s not calling anyone a queer. He’s saying the word queer to examine it as a relic.
Of course the word queer is not anywhere near as loaded as the n-word. Because, for one thing, gay people were never enslaved and dehumanized by oppressors.
All the same, there have certainly been gay men who were beaten to death and the last word they ever heard when they died was queer.
So it’s a word that was once brutally cruel that we have managed to reclaim and even flaunt as the deliberately campy joyous title of a TV show.
So the comparison is not a good match.
What if Viggo (or let’s say Madonna) were to say: “Nobody says faggot anymore.”
Again that wouldn’t faze me. Not one iota. I can’t be sure I recall correctly, but I feel pretty sure I’ve heard Madonna say faggot before (in Truth or Dare?) Nobody gasped. Nobody ostracized her.
We would maybe say, “er, you’re wrong about that. People do say it. Dangerous sick people say it with malice. Just not very many anymore.”
But it’s alright with with me if someone says “I hate the word faggot.”
They’re talking about the word. Not a person.
They’re talking about the word. Not a person.
Viggo thought that’s what he was doing. He was wrong to forget that the spoken word itself is like a bomb exploding to most ears.
He fucked up. He should have known better. Now he does. That’s reason to appreciate his quick learning curve, accept his quick apology.
It’s not a reason to drag him for the remainder of Oscar season.
OscarGeek, I’m glad you say that you know nobody here is suggesting that we tell black people to shrug it off. Nobody here would presume to do that. If they tried I would hammer the hell out of them.
The way anyone reacts to any offense or decides what is offensive should always exclusively remain the right of the person who takes offense. It’s not for bystanders to determine. We have to always respect that.
Sasha’s post is about white people who virtue signal on behalf of black people that the virtue signalers hope will be offended.
Black people do not need our fucking help. They dont need a bunch of white people clutching pearls and putting on a show like Europa tried to do on this page.
(Europa who lives in Sydney where literally 99% of the population are not black.)
I seriously doubt Europa trots around Sydney sticking up for the 1% Aboriginal citizens who endure daily casual discrimination.
But it’s easy for him to sit at his keyboard 12,000 miles away from America’s actual serious racial tragedies — and throw a little fit about Viggo blurting out a crude word.
Again, I totally agree but it isn’t about just black people being offended by the use of a word. I had a relative who took umbrage on my behalf when someone used the word faggot around me. It had far more impact on this relative when it came from someone who wouldn’t be expected to be offended. That relative has not used it around me anymore. We should also consider the intent of the people who are offended (perhaps for themselves and not just on behalf of black people.) If we give the benefit of the doubt on intent for some using these terms shouldn’t we offer that benefit of the doubt for others who are offended when they are used?
I’m a bit uncomfortable with the idea that we should stand by and not speak up when we see or hear something. I’d rather apologize to someone who is vouched for by their black/gay/female friend than think I am following the adage that “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for one (person) to say/do nothing.” There is a spectrum and the hardest part is along the blurry line. Viggo handled this the right way.
I agree with everything you’re saying. With no reservation or quibble.
“would it be better for them to shrug at the use of terms like this instead?”
It would be better if they focused their time and fury on the 20 million actual dangerous murderous racists in America instead of wasting their showboating energy throwing rocks at a man who utters one wrong word in his entire otherwise impeccable career.
I lived in Africa for a short time. Let me assure you that subtle discrimination is much more insidious because too often you have people who don’t understand it trying to tell you to just shrug it off. It is all the more anger-inducing because you can’t speak up for fear of looking petty. (A security guard demanding to see your ID EVERY TIME but not others not your race as just one daily example.)
If we insist on trying to stop this only when it gets to the blatant acts of racism we’ll end up where we are here — trying to establish an acceptable level of discrimination. People trying to decide for others what they should be willing to accept or not. The anger of racism doesn’t come from the acts that are so blatant that even those who are prejudiced have to publicly rebuke. People rightfully rebuke those. Anger comes from the constant undermining of dignity, equality and constant reminders that you don’t belong in a certain environment (Shopkeepers ignoring you, people not sharing a sidewalk, people stopping conversations to stare at you as you enter or walk by, every day watching people ahead of you and behind you in line be served more food than you when you pay the same amount. ) That anger builds until something happens that you think should spark that automatic rebuke. But so often it doesn’t. (“Well, they shouldn’t have been in the street. ” “She should have just obeyed the officer” “Why are they bent out of shape over the usage of this word this time when there are worse things out there.”
Again, with the ultimate in respect for you have you ever been in a position where a very small but significant segment of people treated you as less than others on an ongoing basis over any period of time? We stop the overt acts of racism by being willing to stand up to the subtle ones and trying to make clear why this step is not one people are comfortable with for fear that it enables others. If we say it is ok for Viggo to use the word then how do we credibly stand up to a Fox News personality who can also credibly try to claim to be using the word for purposes of intellectual argument. Did this reaction go too far? I’ll grant, but it seemed to go too far more because the reaction against these people also trying to be part of the discussion.
I totally respect your reaction tot his because I know your intent. But I can’t grant that to others when life’s experience has been that so often things like this are more about trying to push the line back to create a safe space for people to treat others with more subtle contempt. Thanks.
How about they shrug at the use of terms like this in harmless contexts (as seems to be the case here), and get outraged only when it’s actually warranted?! A.k.a. the rational approach. 🙂 I don’t understand why that’s not an option, and it always needs to be all or nothing… I bet this would be even more effective at eradicating the improper use of the term! Or, at least, I see no reason why it wouldn’t. I’d certainly take a lot more seriously people who showed they were being 100% rational in their outrage, than those who attack people for even the most obviously harmless incidents… I might be wrong that others would too, though. I don’t know.
Needless to say I’m 100% with you on this one, Ryan.
Bingo.
“Like, I feel like when I was growing up people saw a clear difference between that and actually calling someone the word”
As they should… Thus proving they’re intelligent, rational adults.
Ali came out and said it was “hurtful”.
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/mahershala-ali-viggo-mortensen-n-word-1203025208/amp/
Lol I have no comment right now maybe cuz I’m drunk but like really… I just wanna watch movies. Ugh smh… no words…
Using the N word is never acceptable. But I do want to ask, is there footage of the Q&A session where Viggo Mortensen said it? I would like to know the context, but still he shouldn’t have said it. I highly doubt that he’s a racist, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
He spent the 1960s in conservative, reactionary Argentina where the N word was in common currency
I’ll try to see if there’s video we can embed or link.
Hmmm well its that time if year again.. called catch up. so I think next week while I’m in holiday break ill buy a ticket to widows, then sneak into can you ever forgive me, and top it off with the green book. All in one day lol. Movie overload.. my hobby…my favorite time of year!!!<3
Is the studio campaigning Mahershala Ali as “supporting”? Isn’t he a co-lead? The narrative of putting the white man as lead and the black man as supporting is problematic.
Pretty much everything about the film is problematic. If it takes this gasping to make it go away, so be it.
Ugh, nobody checks facts anymore ? Come the fuck on.
Whatever here it is : Ali asked to be campaigned in supporting citing screen time as the reason. He shares all his scenes with Mortensen, while Mortensen has close to 20 minutes of extra screen time without Ali thus latter felt that placement-wise him in supporting and Mortensen in lead is the way to go.
In a just world, the race would be over since Venice; ‘First Man’ would be the undeniable, universally agreed upon, de facto winner; and there would be no need for all this PC, voting nonsense.
Also, who on earth is Calire Foy? Is she Claire Foy’s dyslexic alter ego?
I meant, who knew Viggo Mortensen was racist?
In case some people have didn’t get it, I was being sarcastic. This is just the most dumb thing I have heard for a long time and I regularly listen to a lot of Trump rants. Okay, maybe not that dumb, but this conversation is really dumb outside of Trump world.
I always thought that Viggo was such an incredible king in lotr: Rotk that the academy overlooked him and Sean Astin as there were central characters and the heroes of that film. The same thing with a history of violence and eastern promises. Tom stall/Joey cusack in ahov and the Russian guy in EP were underwhelming written characters that the academy didn’t care about but he still got nominated for them. Points aside viggo Mortenson is an exceptional underrated actor.
The morning they didn’t nominate Sean Astin is when I broke up with the Oscars. We’re still frenemies though.
Just as bad as (or worse than) Viggo using the N word was the actual context of its usage. He said “Nobody says n***** anymore” to show how far we’ve come since the time in which GREEN BOOK takes place.
Is he really THAT oblivious? Couple that shocking ignorance with his vociferous support of Jill Stein (which I’m surprised gets a pass from Sasha) and… yikes.
That being said, I’m fully expecting Viggo to have plenty of defenders — but can you even *imagine* what would have happened if Bradley Cooper had said the N word during a Q&A promoting ASIB? He would be done. Viggo will probably still get a nomination.
Why would there be a different reaction if Cooper had said the N-word(are you even allowed to write the word?) instead of Mortensen?
But Cooper would never say that N word , especially in public
So he is like some sort of perfect human being? Well, whoop de doo.
Maybe because his movie isn’t about people who say the n-word.
maybe cos he ‘s got more sense ?
That’s not really the point. Did he repeat it? If he said it once while he was trying to make the point that people no longer say that word, it’s clearly an innocent mistake. Is like when someone is trying to avoid a particular but it’s hard because you are talking about a subject that’s very related. He was trying nobody uses that word and said the word instead N-word that use to describe the word. It’s clearly and innocent context.
Cooper is going to win the BA oscar anyway
He certainly wouldn’t if he said the N word in public.
The word has an oversized power according to some people but it is so powerful as to make lose all sense and perspective. You are really going overboard with this. Viggo was unthinking for a second as he was pointing out how the word has been less in public. It was insensitive but it was not racist or anything close to it. Let’s get some effing perspective, for effing sake.
In the hypersensitive world of the PC left ; that’s enough to sink his ship, unfortunately
Well, bollocks to that! It doesn’t change the damn facts. I stand for the truth.
but you don’t vote for the oscars , so pi$$ orf
What’s that got to do with anything? And who are you? an Academy member? You ASIB are going too low now! You guys make me sick!
And you accuse me of overreacting? Chill with the !! man.
PC is a term only racists use.
The fact is its NOT used less now, racism is now more widely accepted thanks to Drumpf and black men are shot at a rate of one per week with zero consequences..so even the point he was making was flat out ignorant and wrong.
If am wrong, correct me! Don’t fecking shoot me! Don’t shoot anyone for being wrong. Ever!
Huh?
On the other hand Bradley is going to earn Jon Peters at least $10M with this version of ASIB. Who can tell what’s worse…
Bradley and WB kicked Peters off of Oscar availability which was a far as they could legally go as he was contractually attached as producer far before BC came aboard. So stop with your half truth what about-isms.
I believe my point was that Bradley will put more than $10M into Jon Peters’ pocket, I’m sure he could care less if he is credited as a producer or not. And it was not just contractual obligation, Bill Gerber (credited producer on ASIB) spoke about Peters’ involvement in production: “There were a lot of complicated deals on ‘A Star Is Born,’ a lot of heavy-hitters. And Jon could not have been more helpful in getting it all in line.”
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/jon-peters-sexual-harassment-a-star-is-born-1202937352/
No you made a false equivalency. “Who can tell whats worse?” Don’t back peddle.
I’m on team Viggo whatever he said I still think he has a 50/50 chance at winning the oscar for best actor I also think mortal engines should be in the top 5 nominees for visual effects. Can’t go wrong with weta digital. And call me crazy I think bohemian rhapsody has a inside chance at getting nominated for best picture and best director + best actor and best supporting actor: mike Myers. All I can say too is black panther will be the first superhero movie ever to be nominated for bp
Call me crazy, but I’m not really feeling a race narrative for the Oscars this year. Things may change between now and then, and there will certainly be several nominees conducive to such a narrative (as well as it being a perennial aspect), but I don’t the issue driving the Best Picture race, at least not this year.
Green book simply isn’t winning BP ..racism in the ”Ole South” has been covered too many times before that it’s becoming a tired cliche ..nor is Mortenson likely to win BA
ASIB and Cooper are the very likely winners of BP and BA….
Moreover, I’m not surprised that ASIB is going to be running in Best Drama at the GGs ; it’s the obvious choice as its a tougher category to win and it’ll stop any potential rival from winning there and gaining traction in the race
I would be stunned if ASIB won Best Picture.
Prepare yourself.
Fully prepared. In order to win, based on precedent, it needs
– SAG Ensemble nomination
– Best Director nomination
– Best Screenplay Nomination
– Best Editing Nomination
I don’t expect it to receive any of these four but even if I’m wrong it is highly unlikely it actually pulls off ALL four, screenplay in particular is a long shot.
I do expect it to receive 7 Oscar nominations (Picture, Actor, Actress, Supporting Actor, Song, Sound Mixing, Sound Editing) and one or two wins (Song (frontrunner) and maybe Actor).
So what movie IS going to get the four noms you mentioned ?
The one that will win Best Picture.
Ha , now you’re hedging your bets and sounding like the Oracle at Delphi
I don’t see ASIB going all the way. That’s all. If you can’t process such a simple, subjective statement without this bs arrogant cynicism that’s on you.
Sometime in the next 4 months a little light will go off in your head and you’ll say” Oh , ASIB really is winning BP” ! …and when it does you’ll say ” Ooooo , but why did I not see this coming ” ?
PS/It.s momentum will start building when it wins Best dRama at the GGs
Roma will have Director/Screenplay/Editing, and the SAG ensemble is not impossible.
But are the actors in Roma SAG members? If not, it might be practically ineligible
No, they are not.
but Roma is never going to win BP
If Anne Thompson can be confident that it will, so can I.
Anne Thompson said she would ”wager her life that Cuaron wins best director” …even that prediction sounds like Russian Roulette to me
The reasons why people say Roma won’t win are usually: foreign language, Netflix, artsy. If Thompson (who does have some inside knowledge from Academy members) says that these will not stop Roma (i.e. members seem to love the film), I don’t see why we shouldn’t believe her.
Oh well then , if a movie critic says it’ll win , then who am I to argue ? (shrug)
Thompson is merely one critic over at G D , but the majority don’t think Roma will win
Sure, and it’s perfectly fine if you predict something else. But to completely dismiss it as even a possibility for the win: I think that’s just foolish.
ASIB will get all four noms carried along with the winning momentum
Wow, I’m actually sincerely intrigued: an Adapted Screenplay nomination would be the only one that A Star Is Born might not be considered a lock for, and it’s still approximately #3 or #4 on most pundits lists. Director, Editing, and SAG Ensemble seem almost inevitable at this point.
I do agree that if it misses one of these, it’s a definite sign of weakness (although recall A Shape of Water breaking the SAG Ensemble stat just last year and Argo breaking the Director stat in somewhat similar circumstances in 2012).
The Shape of Water didn’t need all four… 🙂 Birdman didn’t. Argo didn’t. Titanic didn’t. Braveheart didn’t. Driving Miss Daisy didn’t. And so on… These things can happen, and they aren’t THAT rare. Because other movies can miss stuff too. (Key wins or key nominations.) Even all of them, like last year. Or the Braveheart year. Or most of the other years in question. And then all four of those aren’t needed anymore… All it takes is another unclear race, and then a movie missing any one of those can easily win, if it hits everything else and wins the right precursors, thus proving stronger than all the rest.
you sound clueless
And you sound like an ASIB fanboy with zero understanding of how the Awards Season works.
Oh contraire , it’s not my type of movie and I have no desire to see it , but it’s exactly what the ”average voter ” will go for
The “average voter” will not go for something in Picture that they probably won’t even nominate in Screenplay.
I bet it does get a SP nomination ,caught up in the winning momentum
I find rappers using the n-word 20 times a minute far more offensive than a white person referencing it in a non-malicious way.
Clueless. It is the same way that gay men use terms like queen, girl etc. Ok for us to use but not straight men because the assumption is always going to be that gay men are using it in fun or ironically while you can’t safely assume the same thing about a straight guy.
This this this, this this. This.
Thank you, OscarGeek.
To be honest, I don’t mind if a straight friend uses a normally offensive term for me (somewhat like ‘fag’ in my language). I care about intent, not words.
Which is the point. You know this person so you know the intent.
Well, that isn’t the point because nobody is even talking about the intent here, are they? Viggo said the N-word and it was wrong. That’s it! I agree with that but Viggo shouldn’t be crucified when one you looks at the intent and his apology. You can’t say intent is relevant in one case but not in Viggo’s case.
Intent is everything proven by your own post below where you justify faggot as maybe not that bad because of interpretation. I’ve not been justifying discrimination against black Americans but you sure seem to be going right up to the line of justifying slurs against LGBT folks here.
No, it isn’t. Not even close, mate. These are words that can and have been used by anyone, including straight men. The N-word is the only one that is categorised differently and out of bounds to everyone except black people to use outside of art. Even the word faggot can be interpreted as just an insult word if there isn’t clear evidence of homophobe intent because it can be used to non-gay people. It’s a little complicated but these words have more ambiguous meaning than the N-word. You, as a gay man, might be very sensitive to straight men using these words but they have no historic context. Straight men acting like gay men or taking the micky out of gay men might insensitive or rude but it’s not a discrimination or anything like using N-word.
oh look! Someone justifying using the word faggot. If you’ve ever been on the receiving end of the use of that word you’d know there is zero ambiguity. Are you seriously trying to rank terms like this and then decide for the rest of us where the cut off is? This should be fun. Go ahead and tell us all (including Sasha) where you rank the c word?
I have to admit that I did not appreciate how the word faggot is so hurtful to gay people. It is the worst slur used against gay men. Although I have rarely come across it myself, I noticed that is the word that homophobes use against gay. I was hesitant to include it in my reply (the word wasn’t included in the comment I was replying to) and I only included the word faggot because I picked it up from a comment below. And he seems to say that is acceptable in some context, which is not the case with the word -igger.
My point that it is not like N-word because it doesn’t have similar historic context is still valid. One is only offensive when used against particular people while the other is offensive in any context outside of art when not used by a certain group.
In the end, any word can be made a hateful slur towards any group of people. Is it permissble for non-gays to use it against themselves? I am trying to understand here because I like asking questions in order to find a logical explanation rather than blindly accept what is accepted by others. Can a straight person says I am a faggot? If the answer is yes, then it’s clear that it has a context.
Please try to understand that I am not saying it’s fine to use these words and it’s certainly not acceptable to use it against anyone.
You just keep digging your hole deeper, John.
3 times I’ve typed a reply to you to suggest you drop your awful quest for your god-given right to say the n-word.
But you’re generally such a good guy around here and not usually so dense. You’re never ordinarily this insensitive.
So I’ve deleted 3 polite cautions to you before posting them here.
Because I don’t want to argue with you.
But I also don’t want you to keep embarrassing yourself.
I just keep hoping that you will eventually hush up of your own accord.
Please listen to yourself.
Now you say faggot is okay to say if you’re using the word faggot to insult a straight guy?
You’re telling all our gay readers that you think faggot is a valid way insult a straight guy?
You’re telling your gay friends on this site that you can belittle a straight guy by telling him that he is gay?
Because being gay is something that a straight guy would find insulting?
Please don’t say to every gay person on this site that you think being a faggot is a funny insult to throw at a straight guy.
Say whatever you want, John. Say any crude word you want to say.
Clearly nobody can stop you.
Congratulations. You’ve argued your right to say ni66er and faggot.
But why? You don’t really want to fight for your right to say and write abusive shit, do you?
“You just keep digging your hole deeper, John.
That’s why you’re here, Ryan, to keep us from doing that. Thanks for that, by the way.
“3 times I’ve typed a reply to you to suggest you drop your awful quest for your god-given right to say the n-word.”
I haven’t seen any reply from you except this one so I don’t know anything about those replies. Please, show me anywhere that I said I should be allowed to say the N-word? It’s funny because it is the complete opposite of what I have written.
“Now you say faggot is okay to say if you’re using the word faggot to insult a straight guy?
You’re telling all our gay readers that you think faggot is a valid way insult a straight guy.”
No, that’s dumb! I was very wary of including the word faggot because it wasn’t one of the words in the comment I was reply and I felt that particular was different and had a very harsh connotation. I slipped in by mistake but I now realise that the word faggot is itself homophobic and as such using it against any man is homophobic.
“You’re telling your gay friends on this site that you can belittle a straight guy by telling him that he is gay.”
No, that is precisely the opposite of what I meant; for you see, I didn’t think faggot was homophobic word so how could it be very offensive?
I thought it was a word you can use to “insult” anyone. I hadn’t realised it was a homophobic.
“Because being gay is something that a straight guy would find insulting?”
Quite the reverse, actually. I wouldn’t think that would be an insult that’s I thought it was okay to use it for. You see, I was coming from the opposite angle. I thought because I thought these were harmless and called gay or words to the effect is not that bad. I hadn’t even thought of them being used in a negative sense. Am I thick or just living in my own bubble. I sometimes think the world is like how I see or want to see the world. I t wouldn’t bother but I suppose I could see how it would bother other straight guys who are insecure or possibly homophobic. Sorry for the confusion but from perspectives those words wouldn’t be an unsult to me. However, I underestimated the harsh connotation of the word faggot which is a homophobic word.
“Go ahead, John. Announce to every gay person on this site that you think being a faggot is a funny insult to throw at a straight guy.”
Personally, it wouldn’t offend me but I suppose it would offend someone who thought there’s something with being gay. I would be offended on behalf of gay now because that word is homophbic.
“Congratulations. You have argued your right to say ni66er and faggot.”
I didn’t argue for my right to say any word. We were debating whether there is any context that they, especially the N-word, can be said. I thought it was a debate worth having because sometimes we can become deranged even over innocent context. Anyway, it was you guys who openned this debate for us so why am I having to defend myself for engaging in it. Sometimes it’s just better to satirise the whole thing like “South Park” does to show how ridiculous it is.
“I can tell you this, John — and it makes me sincerely sad to say: You have lost my respect.”
Well, that is very harsh. You’d think you would ask someone you respect to explain themselves before coming to such conclusions? I usually badger people, especially those I respect, to explain themselves because I believe there is something lost in text. I know from my own writing that I do not make myself clear sometimes and kind by misinterpreted from. I have actually seen people thinking the opposite of what I meant. This still happens after many years where my position on issue are very obvious. I come at things from different angle to most people and it’s sometimes difficult to tell even when my writing and previous stance are clear.
This.
Viggo messed up, big time. But I don’t feel he should be villainized for it.
The big problem with rappers using the N-word is that it desensitises the word. Some people say that’s point. Why then is it wrong to use in any context outside of art? You can say you are trying desensitise the N-word and have kneejerk reaction every time someone uses it innocently like Viggo did. It just seems mad!
And I have a big problem with films like Tarantino using it so much when it’s so unnecessary. It’s utter pointless and shameless use because they think they are clever because they can get away with in the name of art.
Viggo Mortensen will from now on be known as “that Nigger guy”. He needs to kiss Jesse Jackson’s ass to be forgiven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsRvUG2j8Q
Citing Jesse Jackson is something only racists do.
Or simply people who’ve seen that episode of South Park…
It’s a shame that week after week all that is said is how we must abide by the SJW’s and how the oscars should reflect “our society”. Let’s just praise and review movies as an art form. Why shouldn’t First Man be nominated or win? Because it features a “white man problem”?
I mean… you know… I’m just too old for this witchhunt shit. I was Team Viggo when he said no blood for oil. I was Team Viggo when he voted for Jill Stein. I’m gonna be Team Viggo when he says a word that he’s not supposed to say. I don’t believe that any group gets to own their own words. I believe in free speech. All of it. Because more than anything I believe in freedom of thought no matter how heinous a group decides it is or how triggered any group decides to be. I understand that my way is dying in the US. I don’t understand it but I guess this stuff just comes back around again. I assume that if I live long enough I will be persecuted for my beliefs. It is what it is.
The fact is I don’t know if I’m Team Viggo to win the Oscar because I haven’t seen the movie yet. I’m even old enough to think you’re supposed to do that first.
p.s. I feel really bad that every time you guys get an outbreak of forest fires, we get pouring rain over here. I wish I could send it and I hope everyone makes it ok.
Burn the witch!
I am baffled. What are you trying to say?
I agree with pretty much all your acting predictions right now except for Hugh Jackman. I think Dafoe, Hawke, Gosling and Redford have a better chance. Plus maybe Eastwood too.
🙂 I like how Rodrigo glides in, his usual suave self, and sails right past all the bickering. Focusing on the reason we come here: the movies, the filmmakers, the art.
Glad to see you have Beale Street in some major categories…although I do think it’s too low on your Best Picture list. When it’s all said and done I think it will sit 3-5.
Yeah I agree – right now it feels like Roma, A Star is Born, The Favourite, If Beale Street and Green Book are top 5.