A few weeks ago I asked my good friend Michael Grei whether he’d seen Minari. He said he was going to watch it but first he had to sit down and watch four hours of the Justice League Snyder Cut. Being someone who very much exists inside the bubble of the Oscar race I had not even heard of, nor spent any time contemplating, a four hour superhero movie. After he’d seen it I asked him, was it good? He said, yes, it was not just good – it was great. Everyone my daughter knew had also seen it. If you look on Rotten Tomatoes user reviews you will find almost three times as many reviews for that movie as all of the Oscar contenders combined.
I am not making the case that Justice League is “Oscar worthy,” but I am going to introduce the notion that it is really long past time for the Oscars to start at least considering the kinds of movies people are talking about, watching, buzzing about and paying to see.
The Oscars, I think, are caught in a bit of a time warp. For most of their history they mirrored back the culture of the country and the film industry. They didn’t capture all of what was happening in the country because movies have always been “entertainment” and “art.” But the Oscars haven’t been exclusively only one or the other. They have been a mixture of both.
One of the problems with the Oscars now is the preferential ballot. The reason it’s a problem is that it can’t ever properly assess a most popular or most loved movie. It has to measure most liked and least hated – a common denominator that sometimes factors out to “good enough.” You will never get back to what the Oscars used to be with five nominees because those movies of yesteryear became giants in Oscar history and most have been remembered because they were voted on by a consensus. It wasn’t a ranked vote or a modulated vote – but a full-throated passionate vote for a movie people really loved. It isn’t like that anymore and everyone knows it. It does serve the purposes of the Academy’s desire to be more inclusive for sure – but it also makes “Best Picture” limited in terms of what kinds of films can win and whether any film can ever sweep again. Those big powerful Oscar contenders appear to be a thing of the past.
The reason no one does anything about it is that the Oscars mostly serve those who micromanage them – people like the film critics, publicists and Film Twitter. We carefully select movies that have been mostly grown as hothouse flowers rather than robust weeds that have survived despite all odds. Movies that land in the Oscar race are, to a certain degree – with a few notable exceptions – movies whose place has already been carved out very early in the year. The movie then just has to live up to, or disappoint, expectations. The cart has long since been put before the horse.
When superhero movies began flourishing, when tentpoles started to balloon, the Oscars went into the bunker. They decided to cut off from the mainstream fare because it was just too humiliating to take movies with actors in tights seriously. Actors dominate the Academy and they would prefer to actually be able to act in character dramas rather than fulfill some sort of extended adolescent fantasy. It did seem like a fad – but now it doesn’t. Now, I think, ignoring those movies, ignoring the blockbusters isn’t killing Hollywood but it is killing the Oscars.
This year I have had a consistent stream of people, some young, some old, some on the left, some on the right tell me that they do not watch the Oscars anymore. They’ve become too political is one of the main complaints; the movies are too obscure is another. And some have lamented that they don’t think the voting is about whether the films are actually good or not but something else – satisfying a need to reach gender parity, for instance.
There is no need for the Oscars to evolve if they don’t want to. They could easily find a home on streaming and never have to worry about ratings every again. They could continue to exist in an insulated bubble that still remembers the old world, how movies used to be before they were swallowed up by green screens and mega corporations making billions upon billions.
There is something else to notice, however. And that is China is getting close to not needing American film exports anymore, which is astonishing. They could end up dominating the worldwide box office market in due xourse. For instance, look at China’s annual box office in 2015:
And here is China’s box office for 2019:
And look at their smash hit Better Days which is up for International Feature:
Here is the US in 2019:
Now look at China’s box office for this year so far:
And here is the US for 2021:
Obviously China handled the pandemic better than we did – they did not mess around, that’s for sure. Granted, their government allows for complete authority over what people do, where they go, how they’re tracked, but man they got back on their feet in a hurry.
I am not in the business of Hollywood production companies but they have to be at least contemplating China’s independent success. This shows that the US is no longer the dominant export when it comes to movies – unless you count all of the other countries combined and then, for sure, the US is the champion. But China, and South Korea and India, are all developing their own industries, their own movies and making a lot of money doing that.
Better Days is a film that was good enough to be nominated for International Feature and it made a shit ton of money in China. What I’m wondering is – can Hollywood push itself back to being a dominant force by the Oscars expanding outward to break out of the insulated bubble they’ve found themselves in? In other words, cut off from not just the world but the country itself?
The answer: yes.
The Oscars can have their same Best Picture lineup with a preferential ballot for the actors to continue to reward projects that showcase them. AND they can have a popular film category where the crowdpleaser films that make money – whether domestically or internationally – can compete.
My suggestion would be: each nominee would meet a baseline of having earned $100 million or the equivalent in views on streaming. If they did that, the films of the 2019 that would be considered would have included 1917, for instance, which could have won in the “popular” film category where Parasite won in Best Picture. Jordan Peele’s Us could be included. Ford v Ferrari and Hustlers. For 2020, Bad Boys for Life, which won Best Picture at the NAACP Image Awards could be considered and nominated.
Why does this have to be a bad thing? A five picture ballot could be a majority vote. It could include the public because the public will have seen the films. Everybody wins.
Now, here is what the Academy has to know in implementing this plan.
- Ignore Twitter. Ignore Twitter. Ignore Twitter. Twitter is dominated by 15% of its users that write 80% of its content. Yes, it does spread to high minded columnists at high minded papers who write high minded pieces that feel humiliating. AT FIRST. The choices might be mocked. AT FIRST. But Twitter quickly gets over it and moves on to the next thing – you know – like publicly humiliating another person.
- Change the name somehow. It should not be called “popular” – but something else. Not People’s Choice either. That’s been claimed. I’m sure someone will think of something. (What would you readers call it?)
- It is also worth considering the Documentary Feature category expanding into their own Oscars. Take the category out of the main Oscars themselves and have ceremonies that can include awards for people involved in the filmmaking, like writing, directing, even narration and cinematography.
- Expand International Feature to 10. There are just too many great films coming in from other countries to limit to five.
- Bring back an Oscars host. Ignore Twitter when Twitter throws a fit. Think of the Kardashians – did they build their empire because everyone liked them? No, they built their empire because a good many people hated them but they kept watching them, focusing on them, tweeting about them anyway. The Academy has to grow thicker skin. If a small percentage boycotts the Oscars because of the host, so be it. The amount of new viewers they will gain will more than make up for it.
I think this is a potential fix for a problem that I believe is only going to get worse. Then again, maybe after 100 years the Oscars are coming to a close and they might just want to live out their retirement in the sanctuary of streaming. Trust me, I can relate.
In no order listed just as films should been worthy i seen are:
key as follows on gonna refine this list my small project i encourage everyone to build a list of films you feel should been nominated at least if not maybe even won best pic in years other films did:
– Bold = films pre- oscar pref ballot that still unfairly snubbed SHOULD been nominated for best pic in those years- proof it been problem to ampas before pref ballot more pronounced as a main issue post pref ballot era)
BOLD = films pre- pref ballot that deserved tp get nominated and win best picture in year other film did
*** = films that should been nominated post pref ballot for best picture but not necessarily more than 5 nominations max.
*****+ = films that should been nominated post pref ballot for best picture and been a big competitive contender with over 5 nominations – BUT NOT necessarily win best picture
P5+ = films that should been nominated for best picture , won best picture and won over 5 oscars in total inc best picture
– the ‘ Skyline trilogy *****+‘ should been nominated at very least in 3rd film”
– Infini *****+
– the looking glass ***
– the lost city of z *****+ ( still watching def brilliant movie already)
– THE DARK KNIGHT
– interstellar *****+
– the night hunter ***
new additions that i remember i keep updated as i remember more i seen since the pandemic crisis began last year
– A Current War *****+
– Contract Killers ***
– THE MARTIAN
– THREE KINGS
– Killing Me Softly
– THE FOREIGNER
– The Core *****+
– FIRST ‘TAKEN’ MOVIE
– The Commuter ***
Now, please remember i listing largely films i seen during lockdown and some that gradually come to mind that didn’t get the level of or ANY recognition through nomoinations at the oscars…pre- 2000. I am focusing on the ‘modern era’ so circa from the 90’s well..our generation mine anyway which presents a contrast balanced of about 15 years on either side of pre- and post pref ballot era for awards season.
Please correct me if i got based on key that i have some films that might be post pref- ballot as opposed to those that should change to pre- oscar ballot era..also..incase anyone is wondering the last key indicatior…P5+ i dont have listing yet..i think i still got backlog some orders- thanx to our second lockdown of some 2020 films i cannot remember still quite a few to come…soo….yea and i encourage all of you to put your list of films you seen from 90’s to end of last year…of films you feel should been oscar nominations worthy and even some that deserved to win..my list is work in progress…more updates to come.
afterall , i not seen the other 20 films i ordered yet…on top of the 25 i seen about..and I got lot catching up to do..keep you posted..
thoughts ?
Mmm… thinking it would be fun to see what would have won (let’s say since 1970) this “Popular Film” category, and who would have taken Best Picture if the actual winner would have been deemed a “Popular Film”. These are my takes (1970-present):
DISCLAIMER: this is my speculation, if you disagree, perfect, post yours.
1970 tricky… Patton took Best Picture but could have gone Popular film as well. But that could have perfectly gone to M*A*S*H, Love Story or Airport as well. Any combo of winners of those four, would have worked… I would go with M*A*S*H winning popular film as it even spawned a TV series. Arguably Airport could have done it as well.
1971 I could see Bedknobs and Broomsticks taking Popular Film. Or The French Connection and then we can dream of A Clockwork Orange taking Picture.
1972 Too easy. Cabaret would have won Best Picture while The Godfather would have taken Popular Film. Just look at the final Oscar count of both of them and how The Godfather became the highest grossing film of all time, that year.
1973 Another easy one… the AMPAS would have been comfortable with awarding The Exorcist as popular film and leave The Sting as Best Picture
1974 Easy again… The Godfather, Part II would have kept Picture (I don’t think they would have given it “popular” which would have seen as less prestigious) and would probably give Popular to “The Towering Inferno”
1975 Not even a contest… Jaws would have won Popular film
1976 Rocky would have won Popular, Network would have won Best Picture. And I would have been happy with that
1977 Obvious. Star Wars: A New Hope would have taken Popular Film, and Annie Hall would have kept Picture
1978 The Deer Hunter would have kept Best Picture, but for Popular film, it would have been a toss up between Superman and Heaven can wait. I would go for Superman.
1979 Kramer vs Kramer as Picture and Alien as Popular Film
1980 Ordinary People as Picture and Airplane! as Popular Film (GG and WGA nominee) even thought there could be cases made that it wasn’t nominated for anything else while Private Benjamin, Empire Strikes Back and Fame did show up at several categories… but that is why it was possible that Airplane! would concentrate the love as it would be its only nomination and it had the bigger impact of the four (just expanded the spoof beyond limits)
1981 Chariots of Fire for Picture and Raiders of the Lost Ark for Popular
1982 again, easy call… Gandhi in Picture, E.T. the Extraterrestrial in Popular (that would have made Spielberg’s THIRD Popular film win in 8 years)
1983 Terms of Endearment for Picture, Return of the Jedi in Popular (pending on 1980, that could have made 3 for 3 or 2 for 3 for Star Wars in the category)
1984 Amadeus for Picture, Ghostbusters for Popular (however, cases could be made for Beverly Hills Cop, Footlose or Karate Kid, as well… I don’t think Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom would have had a real shot).
1985 Out of Africa for Picture, Back to the Future for Popular (possible spoiler: Witness)
1986 Platoon for Picture, Aliens for Popular (outside shot for Little Shop of Horrors, though)
1987 The Last Emperor for Picture, The Untouchables for Popular (but also, Good Morning Vietnam, Dirty Dancing or Lethal Weapon could have taken it as well)
1988 Rain Man for Picture, and Die Hard OR Who Framed Roger Rabbitt? for Popular. Given the amount of nominations, I’d say Roger Rabbitt would have taken it, easily…
1989 Driving Miss Daisy for Picture and The Little Mermaid (or Batman) for Popular film.
1990 Dances with Wolves for Picture and Ghost for Popular film (Best Picture nominee)
1991 JFK for Picture and Silence of the Lambs for Popular film. But chances that Silence of the Lambs could have taken BOTH.
1992 Unforgiven for Picture, Popular would have been wide open, I think it would be for Basic Instinct, but Aladdin, Scent of a Woman (Best Picture nominee, Lead Actor winner) or even The Bodyguard could have defeated it
1993 Easiest year, maybe. Spielberg would win both with Schindler’s List and Jurassic Park, respectively
1994 Again, easy year. Forrest Gump and Pulp Fiction, but question is which one would have taken which… the Popular Film mix could have made The Lion King win in Popular and then make even Forrest Gump lose both, with Pulp Fiction winning Best Picture.
1995 Braveheart for Picture and either Apollo XIII or Babe for Popular film. I think our favorite pig would have won it, given the 7 noms and 1 win for such of an underdog of a film.
1996 The English Patient at Picture, Jerry Maguire for Popular, but Independence Day could have upset it
1997 Titanic would have taken both. Simple as that. If they gave Titanic Popular and give Picture to anyone else, it would have been to L.A. Confidential, but it’s no sense to give 11 Oscars to a film and not give it Best Picture, isn’t it?
1998 Tricky again… Shakespeare in Love and Saving Private Ryan would have shared the honors, question remains, which one would have won what. I’d say SPR would have taken popular as it was – if I remember correctly – the biggest at b.o. out of the two.
1999 American Beauty would have won Picture and The Sixth Sense, Popular, over The Matrix, just because The 6th Sense was nominated for Picture, Director, Screenplay and 2 acting awards…
2000 Gladiator would have taken Popular, and Traffic would have taken Picture. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was taking Foreign Film anyways.
2001 A Beautiful Mind (ugh) still would have won Picture, but Moulin Rouge! would have been a Popular film winner if it wasn’t for Fellowship of the Ring, that would have lead the nominations with 14 including Picture and Popular film.
2002 Chicago in Picture, The Two Towers in Popular
2003 Return of the King would have taken both, tying with Titanic for the most wins ever, with 12. HOWEVER, winning 3 Popular films in 3 years, could have left the hands free to give Lost in Translation, Best Picture.
2004 Million Dollar Baby could have taken Popular, leaving The Aviator or even Sideways a way for Best Picture, but I don’t think so… specially on how crowded and open Popular would have been, with Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkhaban, The Incredibles, Spider-Man 2, Shrek 2, The Passion of the Christ… I’d say Harry Potter 3 would have taken it, as it was raved.
2005 Crash for Picture, Batman Begins for Popular (but Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, or King Kong could have a word about it)
2006 The Departed keeping Picture, Popular… I’d say Borat. No kidding. Little Miss Sunshine looks like the biggest competitor, and was winning Supporting Actor anyways, Popular would have been the only viable way to reward the critically acclaimed sleeper of the year.
2007 No Country for Old Men for Picture… Popular.. Hairspray, blatantly snubbed from any other possibility, it was one of the biggest b.o. of the years, and also one of the best reviewed films, so it would make sense they would throw it this bone.
2008 Slumdog Millionaire and The Dark Knight, easy call.
2009 The Hurt Locker and Avatar. Another easy call
2010 The King’s Speech and The Social Network, again, an easy call. I feel a trend would become that if 2 films are really close each other in consideration, the one with the biggest b.o. would go on to win Popular by default leaving BP to the one that scored less money.
2011 The Artist for Picture and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part II for Popular film, to reward the franchise. Outside shot for Bridesmaids, though
2012 Argo for Picture and Skyfall (or Django Unchained) for Popular
2013 12 Years a Slave for Picture and Gravity for Popular
2014 Birdman for Picture and I am going to think that The LEGO Movie would have taken popular given its tremendous snub at Animated (but I doubt it would have missed Popular, though, given the competition)
2015 Supereasy, barely an inconvinience: Spotlight in Picture, Mad Max: Fury Road in Popular
2016 another supereasy call: Moonlight in Picture, La La Land in Popular… unless they surprised with Deadpool’s only nomination.
2017 Look no further: The Shape of Water in Picture, Get Out in Popular
2018 tricky, tricky one… Green Book taking Picture, but I think Bohemian Rhapsody would have taken Popular, despite all the claims of Black Panther (or A Star is Born or Avengers: Infinity War)
2019 Parasite in Picture, and despite the 11 noms of the Joker, that would have been 12 with Popular, I think the AMPAS would have given Kevin Feige his Oscar for Avengers: Endgame
2020 Nomadland seems to be taking Best Picture, but if we had a Popular film it would be between Soul, Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, Tenet, one of them, for the win… given that Soul is winning animated, it would be a toss up between Borat and Tenet, and the vote would be a sign of the old Hollywood (pro-theaters to death, they would vote for Tenet) and the new Hollywood (that it’s OK with streaming, that could vote for Borat). I would say Borat only because it has a screenplay and an acting nomination while Tenet was snubbed in SO MANY departments…
Is it me, or the Popular film winners list could be actually better than the Best Picture one?
Exactly what “mainstream” films are people whining about not getting nominated for Best Picture this year and causing Oscar ruin? Please don’t say Tenet.
And what the hell is a “mainstream” film?
– One made by a major studio? Is Netflix a major studio? it’s certainly a top 3 spender of content so in NO WAY is it an independent. So all films borne out of a studio is a “mainstream” film? Are all Netflix films mainstream films?
– Is it based on box office grosses? If so, what is the “streaming equivalent”? None of the big streamers reveal viewing numbers. Good luck determining what the US$100M equivalent on Netflix is. And is US$100M for cinematic films the tipping point?
– Must it be a US film? Instead of foreign language? What if it’s a foreign language film that grosses US$100M worldwide?
– is it based on budgets? Or themes? Or filmmakers? Or stars? Or political ideology? Or representation?
This pigeonholing of films isn’t particularly helpful when films and filmmaking keep crossing lines and setting new milestones. Balance is in the eyes of the beholder. Just because YOUR mainstream film isn’t deemed one of the best films of the year doesn’t mean it deserves to be or that it’s the end of the Oscar world.
Once upon a time, the Oscar nominations list of 5 got expanded so that more blockbusters can be nominated. Presumably because some people want to SAVE THE OSCARS. After that we had 8 or 9 nominees per year, but the same people are still pissed off so now they think 10 is the magic number so that more blockbusters can be nominated. What happens when blockbusters still don’t make the list? Keep expanding to 12? 15? Then add another 5 for diversity nominees? After all, the more films you have, the bigger an audience the Oscars can have, right? Nominate “mainstream” films so “mainstream” people will tune in. Nominate female directed films so females will tune in. Nominate POC films so POC will tune in. Nominate animated films so cartoons will tune in. Everybody wins.
By the way, Twitter chatter is as relevant / irrelevant as Facebook chatter is as relevant / irrelevant as AD chatter is as relevant / irrelevant as Goldderby chatter. All subjective opinions, all should probably be regarded / disregarded by voters. To assume that social chatter on this platform needs to be regarded in higher esteem than Twitter or FB chatter is the height of arrogance.
Not sure what objective expanding the international feature film category into 10 serves to “save” the Oscars. Or what “saving” the Oscars even means.
Since when are folks here obsessed with helping the Oscars achieve glorious ratings? The ratings serve to benefit the pockets of TV stations that carry them, and the influence of advertisers who place ad spots on them. I didn’t know we care so much about ratings. The last person obsessed with ratings was orange man, and he’s quite irrelevant now.
TV in general is witnessing massive ratings drop. Across all genres. That’s the way of the world. People are watching less TV, they are watching cut downs on social media, which don’t currently factor into viewership measurements only because stations can’t sell US$1M ads on YT, something that clearly bothers a bunch of people here.
Finally, call it the best popular film award, best crowd favorite, best blockbuster, best choice of the people, best mainstream film, most well-loved film, call it anything you want – blockbuster film lovers are not the Oscars target audience. It’s silly to think just because Fast and Furious 10 is nominated for most beloved people’s choice award, that vin diesel fans are going to start flocking in droves to watch the Oscars on TV. If so, then you might as well go all the way, have the most popular actor Oscar, most popular actress, supporting actor, supporting actress. Go all the way. You get to nominate jennifer lawrence, zendaya, Vanessa Hudgens, zac efron, Taylor Swift every year to pull in the crowds. And then see how fast your core Oscars target audience stop caring.
Know your audience, vote with your conscience, focus on what you are, don’t pretend to be something you are not – for commercial reasons most “mainstream” people don’t care two hoots about, unless you are Cadillac, Macdonald’s, Apple, Heinz or L’Oréal with millions of advertising dollars to spare, or if you are an ABC executive about to be fired if the Oscars ratings continue to bleed. I don’t think the Oscars is near death anytime soon the way it is now.
Tom O’Neil, Pete Hammond and Tim Gray talked about this year’s Oscars just posted by Goldderby on YT. They discussed about the Oscars brand (49:00 into the chat). They conclude that regardless of the TV ratings for this or future years, the Oscars cache is still as significant as it’s ever been. Its tradition is long and no awards will ever top it.
Old white men stating that Oscars are still significant. Jeez.
Pete Hammond spoke of an analyst’s research who after surveying and what-have-you came up with the result that the Oscars brand is the most significant out there.
They got a point, so if Oscars are no longer the “barometer”, what would replace it? Will we stop saying “Academy Award Winner Jodie Foster (or whoever else)”?
Just let the intelligent blockbusters into the best picture club. That’s all. Then watch numbers of eyeballs skyrocket. Make it mainstream vs. arthouse. Balance. Tie picture and director together; no more movies directing themselves.
As for the ratings, one of two things should happen. If total viewers remain in 8 figures, write 2021 off as an anomaly because COVID. If they fall below 10 million, ABC needs to cut their losses and renegotiate the last 7 years of their television agreement w/AMPAS.
“Tie picture and director together; no more movies directing themselves.”
Best Director is the Oscar for directors.
Best Picture is the Oscar for producers.
That’s why producers accept the Best Picture Oscars and get to take those Oscars home.
Director and producer are two different jobs. Two different talents, two different skillsets.
Almost Always It’s Two (or more) Different People.
How is that hard to understand?
No one has ever said a BP directed itself. It’s a producer’s award. Everyone knows this.
FLEABAG
Stay on topic, Pwb cultist.
I think they should go back to five BP nominees and let the chips fall where they may.
I think the “10” system will help more popular films be nominated (as is what occurred in 09-10, I believe).
I know we are not wild about jury selection committees. But.
I wonder if the 9 films with the most votes should be nominated (art house/big budget, like 09-10). And then … a committee would have to choose 1 more film to round utf the “10” — pick from a selection of films that made amazing box office, received great reviews, and displayed awards-worthy craftsmanship.
There’s no correct answer. This is just my thought, as of now. And no one would know which “1” of those “10” was the committee choice.
While I generally agree with Sasha’s sentiment here, I just realized she doesn’t watch the more popular films either. She admits as such above when referring to her “Oscar bubble.” I think we could all have better perspectives on film if we didn’t limit ourselves to only one type of movie. Watching only awards season fodder and skipping the big budget blockbusters breeds insularity and pretension.
which is why on my #1 spots of some years I have films like “Colossal”, “The Death of Stalin” or “Stranger by the Lake”… the later would not in a million year be even submitted for Oscar consideration, but that stole us from having a masterful, calm performance by Patrick d’Assumçao – who was Cesar nominated for this one – having a shot at winning or being even nominated for Supporting Actor. The problem with Stranger by the Lake? It takes place completely in a gay cruising area and has graphic sex. Still, a chilling Hitchcocknian exercise in tension and a smashing allegory. By the way, it was Cahiers du Cinema #1 film of 2013 (for American release, it counts as 2014)
But is the situation of someone like Sasha who doesn’t see the really popular films a very common one for people in the Oscar community? I feel like at least a lot of the people here seem to very quickly after their release have takes on the biggest blockbusters and movies too small/obscure/different for the Oscars as well as the movies that are in Oscar consideration. And at least personally I’ve gone to see most of the major blockbusters of the decade, often not because I really want to see them but because I’ve felt as a cinephile that I should have a strong awareness of the trends in blockbuster filmmaking.
Also, by the way in case you haven’t seen it I second Jesus Alonso’s recommendation of Stranger by the Lake in his reply to you, it’s a genuinely exceptional film.
Yeah, I wasn’t really claiming that folks here aren’t watching them, although I can see how it sounded that way. I’m more so speaking to the folks who cover these things, and obviously industry folk who are always so proud of how few movies they see. “I’m too busy making movies to watch them.” Fuck off with that.
A way I think this “popular film” category could work, besides changing the name which definitely needs to happen, is to not use the normal nomination process. Instead, the top 5 box office films automatically get nominated.
Rather than having the industry decide which movies people like, people would vote with their wallets. There could be interesting close calls about who makes the cut which could draw attention from the general public and media. You’d wind up with the likes of Furious 7 and Minions in the running, but the point is to nominate what people like, and that’s what people like.
I’m still not sold on the idea that a “popular film” category would help ratings all that much, but if it’s going to work I think this would be the best way to do it.
…. since pref ballot. Remarkably ( or not ) this list i add to as my memory comes back for like 25 films i seen since first lockdown start pandemic in march ( then backlog of delayed orders when they came saw me fall behind by further +10 new delivered arrivals in one day lol)..
So my memory there be more majority of films listed below i expand on that just as worthy those who made the cut best picture as those who did each year from approx 2004- 2020 Are: ( note most films i ordered are in time frame of actual pref ballot reform from 2007- 2020) of ones i list most films belnoq and expand on this list of snubs i have in my collection that i scene are particularly in the 2007- 2016 category ..the evolutionary prime period of pref ballot ;
In no order listed just as films should been worthy i scene are: (Bold = films pre- oscar pref ballot that still unfairly snubbed in those years- proof it been problem to ampas before pref ballot more pronounced as a main issue post pref ballot era)
– the ‘ Skyline trilogy ‘ should been nominated at very least in 3rd film”
– Infini
– the looking glass
– the lost city of z ( still watching def brilliant movie already)
– the dark knight well.. duh!
– interstellar
– the night hunter
new additions that i remember i keep updated as i remember more i seen since the pandemic crisis began last year
– A Current War
– Contract Killers
– The Martian
– Three Kings
– Killing Me Softly
– The Foreigner
– The Core
– First Taken Movie
– The Commuter
Just to point out..i set to go above 25 by time i update my list of deserved overlooked oscar contenders frankly one has rocks for brains if you arrogantly presume these are all pop- cult – mega uber blockbuster entertainment films they are not in fact..maybe? some in this list you havent heard about?
tell me everyone are there any in this list you feel should have been competing as oscar contender- not necessarily to win maybe some but not all you know? bnuy to at least be nominated– that be step in right direction– issue not ratings..onmly partly..it about ending genre discrimination that has diminished oscars respectability amongst their traditional core base within the academy- and that doesnt necessarily just mean conservative ideology either~!
thoughts ?
Solution ? Strip back most recent reform of pref ballot altogether keep to basics if need be… and i think reqlly look at MInimum expansion of best pic contenders 2 10 nominees and max of 14 let remember that there what? Say in critics list 100-150 and in audiences mind what one afford realusticalky maybe ?40 or 50 if u rich see a year of them it wtill awfully smsll % still make best pic u know what ? I evrn expand best director and screenplay and primary qctibg categories only from 5 -7 max. I think we all forgive academy dor longer show if thry featured more balanced all riund inclusive race dont u think?
But for cripe sake..lord save us… do NOT discredit undervalue core category best oicture by intrifucing pop film Category g-d!
I thought you have posted this somewhere below
I thought you have posted this somewhere below
We need to be reminded that in most years this past decade there has been more than one nominee with 100 mil+ in box office. Just in 2019 there was Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, 1917, Ford v Ferrari, Joker, and Little Women. Sounds like quite a few popular films to me. The Academy is still nominating popular films. The problem is those films are not winning, and it’s because of the preferential ballot.
Take away the preferential and there’s a very good chance the winners of the past 10 years would’ve been:
King’s Speech (should’ve been Social Network, but ya can’t say it wasn’t popular with nearly 150 mil in domestic box office)
The Artist
Argo (135+ mil)
Gravity (250+ mil)
Birdman
The Revenant (180+ mil)
La La Land (140+ mil)
The Shape of Water
Green Book (only 85 mil domestic, but 300+ mil WW)
Parasite
So the decade is split down the middle between more arthouse fare and popular blockbusters. If you ask me, a fair trade.
And in terms of Picture-Director splits you’re looking at a decade then much more similar to the one before it. I’m not a fan of frequent splits. In most cases, if you win Best Director you oughta win Best Picture.
Reminder, Parasite only earned $54m domestic, which is among the bottom 10 earning BP winners in history.
Trying to figure out how this contradicts what I wrote…
But I’m guessing 54mil for a foreign film is pretty damn good though.
Not Gravity – 12 Years won every major BP precursor that year. The only one Gravity tied it for was precisely the only other preferential one. (PGA.) If anything, it was helped by that system.
I say also not The Revenant, at least, but there’s more of a case to be made for that. (Even though it won fewer tech Oscars – because in its year there was another tech juggernaut, unlike in Gravity’s.)
I’m all for getting more popular movies in the race, I just don’t think a Popular Film category is the way to go about it. The way to go about it is eliminating the Preferential ballot and mandating a minimum theatrical release of 2,000 theaters for Best Pic nominees. So no more releasing at the tail end of the year in 2 theaters, then going wide to max 1,000 theaters after the new year and winning Best Picture. This wouldn’t apply to streaming releases obviously.
Academy should definitely ignore Twitter and bring back the hosts. Imagine if they hadn’t wimped out on Kevin Hart. That ceremony likely would’ve had much higher ratings.
I know a lot of ppl liked the show when it was hostless. But from a marketing point of view, it needs a host. The host helps promoting the show. Again, a lot of ppl tune in to watch entertainment and a popular and funny host would promise that. Most don’t care much about results or who are nominated to be realistic.
Those people are Film Twitter folk who have no sense of humor. That being said, the Academy definitely needs to stop hiring the same writers for every host and let the host write it all themselves. The Seth McFarlanes and Jon Stewarts of the world are always going to be funnier without other writers dictating tone.
I HATE the fact that there are no hosts anymore…
Tbf I don’t watch award ceremony as well unless Ricky Gervais or Graham Norton is hosting. W/o them, I’d just watch some of the clips in YT.
I’m not being a troll or a tool or crap-stirrer with what I’m about to ask. This is a legitimate question. What exactly is it about Zack Snyder films that garner the almost insanely over the top adulation from his fans? The “oooh look, he’s recreating the exact panel from the book” novelty wore off a while ago, so what am I missing here? The profundity of slow motion brooding and battle scenes so darkly lit it’s impossible to tell who’s winning or if they’re even fighting? Debating Snyder’s artistic choices in social media, if you dissent you might as well be saying to his fans that you eat puppies for breakfast. I don’t even think Tarantino or even…sigh..Nolan fans are this over the top.
I can only speak to the Snyder Cut, but that movie’s more than a visual achievement. It’s more akin to Lord of the Rings than most superhero movies.
I can only speak to the Snyder Cut, but that movie’s more than a visual achievement. It’s more akin to Lord of the Rings than most superhero movies.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to why Bad Boys for Life won Best Picture against One Night in Miami, Da 5 Bloods, and Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom at the NAACP Image Awards?
They want to have better TV ratings? 🙂
Hahahaha.
Because it’s actually good unlike those movies that everyone pretends are good but really aren’t.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/EMTQ0Y4UgYzKM/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/EMTQ0Y4UgYzKM/giphy.gif
It made the most money, therefore it was the best. That’s the exact same logic that is the thesis of this article.
NAACP Image Award voters tend to have more populist tastes. In 2017, their Best Picture pick was ”Hidden Figures,” over ”Fences” and ”Moonlight.” In 2019, their Best Picture pick was ”Black Panther,” over ”BlacKkKlansman” and ”If Beale Street Could Talk.” In its nearly 50-year history, the NAACP has agreed only twice with the Academy: ”Crash” and ”12 Years a Slave.” (P.S. The winner for ”Best Movie of 2020” at the People’s Choice Awards: ”Bad Boys for Life.”)
Off topic- watched A Sun today. Flat out masterpiece
Why isn’t this nominated for, and winning, International Film.
Must AMPAS get things so very wrong, so very often?
I’m with you Andrew. Loved the stew out of A Sun. It’s in my top 3. I have Better Days in my que on amazon.
A Sun is an incredible film. But this year was TOUGH. Another Round, Quo Vadis Aida?, Better Days are all incredible and in my opinion better than A Sun. Two of Us was fantastic too and didn’t get nominated. I loved Apples and it didn’t make the top 15.
I still need to watch The Man Who Sold His Skin.
yes, it was one of my 10 best of 2020 – brilliant film.
Adding a popular film category is not going to increase viewership because the people who presently do not care about their favourite movies winning Oscars are still not going to care about their favourite movies winning Oscars.
Gone are the days where 1/2 the country would watch the Oscars because there were only 4 TV channels. Gone are the days where most of the country would see the same 4-5 movies each year. There is just too much content. Too much choice.
The idea of turning the Oscars into a viewership contest instead of cinematic achievement is depressing. I hope the Academy knows better than this
I will always maintain that for purely artistic reasons Dark Knight was vulnerable to the snubs that ended up happening, and the Academy’s efforts to placate pissed off Nolan fans only made things worse. Again, the Academy would be doing themselves LARGE favors by ceasing to be so openly embarrassed by the films and artists they do award.
I will always maintain that for purely artistic reasons Dark Knight was vulnerable to the snubs that ended up happening, and the Academy’s efforts to placate pissed off Nolan fans only made things worse. Again, the Academy would be doing themselves LARGE favors by ceasing to be so openly embarrassed by the films and artists they do award.
A way I think this “popular film” category could work, besides changing the name which definitely needs to happen, is to not use the normal nomination process. Instead, the top 5 box office films automatically get nominated.
Rather than having the industry decide which movies people like, people would vote with their wallets. There could be interesting close calls about who makes the cut which could draw attention from the general public and media. You’d wind up with the likes of Furious 7 and Minions in the running, but the point is to nominate what people like, and that’s what people like.
I’m still not sold on the idea that a “popular film” category would help ratings all that much, but if it’s going to work I think this would be the best way to do it.
…. since pref ballot. Remarkably ( or not ) this list i add to as my memory comes back for like 25 films i seen since first lockdown start pandemic in march ( then backlog of delayed orders when they came saw me fall behind by further +10 new delivered arrivals in one day lol)..
So my memory there be more majority of films listed below i expand on that just as worthy those who made the cut best picture as those who did each year from approx 2004- 2020 Are: ( note most films i ordered are in time frame of actual pref ballot reform from 2007- 2020) of ones i list most films belnoq and expand on this list of snubs i have in my collection that i scene are particularly in the 2007- 2016 category ..the evolutionary prime period of pref ballot ;
In no order listed just as films should been worthy i scene are: (Bold = films pre- oscar pref ballot that still unfairly snubbed in those years- proof it been problem to ampas before pref ballot more pronounced as a main issue post pref ballot era)
– the ‘ Skyline trilogy ‘ should been nominated at very least in 3rd film”
– Infini
– the looking glass
– the lost city of z ( still watching def brilliant movie already)
– the dark knight well.. duh!
– interstellar
– the night hunter
new additions that i remember i keep updated as i remember more i seen since the pandemic crisis began last year
– A Current War
– Contract Killers
– The Martian
– Three Kings
– Killing Me Softly
– The Foreigner
– The Core
– First Taken Movie
– The Commuter
Just to point out..i set to go above 25 by time i update my list of deserved overlooked oscar contenders frankly one has rocks for brains if you arrogantly presume these are all pop- cult – mega uber blockbuster entertainment films they are not in fact..maybe? some in this list you havent heard about?
tell me everyone are there any in this list you feel should have been competing as oscar contender- not necessarily to win maybe some but not all you know? bnuy to at least be nominated– that be step in right direction– issue not ratings..onmly partly..it about ending genre discrimination that has diminished oscars respectability amongst their traditional core base within the academy- and that doesnt necessarily just mean conservative ideology either~!
thoughts ?
Solution ? Strip back most recent reform of pref ballot altogether keep to basics if need be… and i think reqlly look at MInimum expansion of best pic contenders 2 10 nominees and max of 14 let remember that there what? Say in critics list 100-150 and in audiences mind what one afford realusticalky maybe ?40 or 50 if u rich see a year of them it wtill awfully smsll % still make best pic u know what ? I evrn expand best director and screenplay and primary qctibg categories only from 5 -7 max. I think we all forgive academy dor longer show if thry featured more balanced all riund inclusive race dont u think?
But for cripe sake..lord save us… do NOT discredit undervalue core category best oicture by intrifucing pop film Category g-d!
Just in comparisson, another academic distinction already played with this idea: French Cesars… They decided in 2018 to award the top box-office film with a “popular César”. Only to change the rules in 2020, when the Academy chose the best of the top 5…. Les Misérables (Ladj Ly’s obviously) won both the popular prize and best film that night…. In 2021 they stopped the idea. Maybe because of the pandemic, maybe not.
We need to be reminded that in most years this past decade there has been more than one nominee with 100 mil+ in box office. Just in 2019 there was Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, 1917, Ford v Ferrari, Joker, and Little Women. Sounds like quite a few popular films to me. The Academy is still nominating popular films. The problem is those films are not winning, and it’s because of the preferential ballot.
Take away the preferential and there’s a very good chance the winners of the past 10 years would’ve been:
King’s Speech (should’ve been Social Network, but ya can’t say it wasn’t popular with nearly 150 mil in domestic box office)
The Artist
Argo (135+ mil)
Gravity (250+ mil)
Birdman
The Revenant (180+ mil)
La La Land (140+ mil)
The Shape of Water
Green Book (only 85 mil domestic, but 300+ mil WW)
Parasite
So the decade is split down the middle between more arthouse fare and popular blockbusters. If you ask me, a fair trade.
And in terms of Picture-Director splits you’re looking at a decade then much more similar to the one before it. I’m not a fan of frequent splits. In most cases, if you win Best Director you oughta win Best Picture.
The Oscars are their own worst enemy .. Things started to unravel in 2008 . The Dark Knight was nominated for the PGA ,the DGA and the WGA , usually when that happens Oscar nominat5ions are almost guaranteed . Enter Harvey Weinstein and The Reader . All hell breaks loose . Best Picture nominees are increased to ten the following year with films like Avatar , Hurt Locker and Inglorious Bastards leading the pack . Speaking of Zach Snyder Watchmen was completely shut out out . It unlike the comic book movies to come was adult , brutal and sexual . It should have been up for Picture , Director , Adapted Screenplay , Cinematography , Supporting Actor , Editing and Visual Effects . Scorsese would have probably loved that comic book movie . Nothing has been the same since . In Oscars first year there were two Best Picture winners , Wings for Best Picture beating out Seventh Heaven and The Racket and Artistic Quality of Production With Sunrise beating out The Crowd and Chang . Artistic Quality of Production was done away with the following year . Once again their own worst enemy . One more thing about 2009 , Hurt Locker won Picture , Director and Screenplay . It should have been a three way split with Avatar winning Best Picture , Hurt Locker winning Best Director and Inglorious Bastards winning Best Screen Play . As for ” Cancel Culture ” and ” Woke ” after the events of last week those words have lost forever whatever meaning they might have once had ..
Artistic quality of production had little to do with those first Oscars. Supposedly the only reason why The Crowd lost in the “Unique and Artistic Production” was that Louis B. Mayer, whose studio produced The Crowd, thought it was disgusting that a toilet could be seen in the movie and thus refused to give it that award
Snyder’s Watchmen SHOULD have been shut out.
“” None of you seem to understand . I’m not locked in here with you . You’re locked in here with Me ! “
Snyder didn’t write that, Alan Moore did. You might know him, he wrote the graphic novel that Zack Snyder failed to grasp more than a surface level understanding of and made a dumb, pretty looking beat em up action film
You really think I don’t know who wrote that line . May the giant squid come to you in the night and give you peace . Blasphemer !
wow~ ! this reflects what i believe in sums up the entire specific moment that defined since the downfall of the oscars hey Ryan i recommend strongly big time to put this article as feature article under this topic wqell done Mr. Barr!
It makes shudder to even hear this topic come up again. It was a hideous, mocked, ridiculed and quickly disposed of idea and nothing has changed since then.
I’m not being a troll or a tool or crap-stirrer with what I’m about to ask. This is a legitimate question. What exactly is it about Zack Snyder films that garner the almost insanely over the top adulation from his fans? The “oooh look, he’s recreating the exact panel from the book” novelty wore off a while ago, so what am I missing here? The profundity of slow motion brooding and battle scenes so darkly lit it’s impossible to tell who’s winning or if they’re even fighting? Debating Snyder’s artistic choices in social media, if you dissent you might as well be saying to his fans that you eat puppies for breakfast. I don’t even think Tarantino or even…sigh..Nolan fans are this over the top.
I don’t have a fully formed opinion about this. Besides, my shrink tells me I should try to have fewer opinions about everything. (That’s funny, but she wasn’t joking.)
It would be interesting to use this category as bargaining chip.
Like, “Okay, we’ll let you have a Best Blockbuster category if we can expand Best International and Best Documentary to 10 nominees each.”
Or, “Okay, let’s have a Best Tentpole category but let’s also stop giving Best Song 25 minutes of the show and bring the Honorary and Lifetime Oscars back to prime time.” (Or, heck, give the cinematography nominees 25 minutes one year, and costume designers 25 minutes another year, etc.)
I think I’m not sure that nominating Avengers Endgame or Justice League Raw & Uncut in their own category will necessarily make fans of those movies tune into the pageant and sit still for 3 hours just for the thrill of hearing the name of their favorite superhero read out loud so they can watch it lose to Ford v Ferrari.
Those kinds of moviegoers will soon figure out how much fun that isn’t.
(I’m basing my feelings on the fact that I know I don’t need to sit through the whole SuperBowl in order to watch the halftime show.)
The years that Titanic and Lord of the Rings had astronomical ratings, it was because those movies actually won boatloads of trophies. Which will not happen for Spider-Man 3.
Usually, two out of 10 movies every year already break the $100 million threshold (Joker and OUATIH last year, Black Panther, A Satr is Born, and Bohemian Rhapsody the year before that, right?)
I’m not seeing the excitement generated to attract Marvel fans to watch the Oscars just so they can see 4 superhero nominees lose to Murder on the Orient Express ($100.6 million) — it might only piss off the fanboys even worse.
But these are just observations. Not an opinion. It wouldn’t bother me at all to add another category — especially if it means 10 minutes less of clunky presenter chit-chat.
I’ll say again that I don’t have anything at all against the idea. It’ll be 10 minutes out of 200. Let’s do it. Just to watch #BritishFilmTwitter have a collective stroke.
I will only point out: The Oscars, even in a ratings freefall, still had 23 million viewers last year.
If we think we can fix Oscar ratings by making them more like the People’s Choice Awards for 10 minutes, it might be useful to check the ratings for the People’s Choice Awards?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f516ecb0a80070941eef63536f891ff62f6c28cbb453f5377e4f1e85629cf8b3.jpg
oops, typo.
“A Satr is Born”..?
I meant to type A Satyr is Born.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bf0c728d9672ac24b4291d6a0050092f9ce87215bcecc4b658ddbe57b851ad8.jpg
that’s a bit ‘cheeky’ Ryan. You’re scraping the ‘bottom’ of the barrel there. You might have ‘fleshed out’ your idea a bit more. Thank you and Good Night 🙁
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/36065b6b63d47bd81bb39bc0879092d770fc3b4a327d65906b7826056e78a821.jpg ‘ A Satay Is Born’
yum
‘A Pastry is Born’ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/252e13e24d1798fe76c513e90bc6dfd2162f4c19598f0036627c7b95e43e2cf8.gif
Well if that isn’t the icing on the cake! 🙂
if it ain’t it’ll do till the icing gets here.
It’s quite transfixing – you might say i’m glazed! (i know, i know, thank you and good night) 🙂
It’s quite transfixing – you might say i’m glazed! (i know, i know, thank you and good night) 🙂
“Drizzle Drazzle Druzzle Drome, time for this one to come home”
#drizzle https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/072f3ee461af0554e1707b371dfa8feb09bdfd04facc1345d63e3bf872f64be3.jpg
that’s so cute!
always good to balance the hardcore porn with a drizzle of cuteness.
i loved your reframe yesterday of one of the regulars who used the ‘C’ word and you replaced it thoughtfully with ‘Cutie’ – that put a big smile on my dial.
glad to hear it!
we all do what we can to help smooth over the rough spots.
“Justice League Raw and Uncut”
That was my name in prison.
That 23m is still an all-time low. The show was rather predictable in its acting winners and the foreign film winning BP (#8 or 9 on the least-earning BP winners ever) And 2019 was just an off-year for movies. Stuff happens. You don’t have to go full People’s Choice. Just have a mainstream vs. arthouse battle. You don’t add a most popular category. What you do is drop the bias the Academy has against blockbusters going all the way back to the original Star Wars. They have just as much a right to compete for the best of the year as a Moonlight or the Nothing Ever Happens movie that will win on the 25th.
I am actually against it. It would soon become a ghetto, like Documentary, Animated or International Film. No Doc or Animated film ever won Best Picture. Only ONE Foreign Language film won Best Picture, and it was last year (we can put apart The Artist, a french film, because it was mute). Not many blockbusters have won Best Picture, but you can kiss goodbye wins like Gladiator, Titanic or Silence of the Lambs (or Return of the King) if you create the separate category…
I honestly don’t think the Oscars should be nominating films to make the masses happy or increase show ratings. I know it’s all about the $$$ but the academy shouldn’t compromise recognizing artistic excellence just to reach a larger audience. The people who really care about film watch the Oscars. The rest don’t know the difference between a Grammy, an Emmy, or an Oscar and trying to get their viewership by creating a “popular film” category seems futile.
massively wrong big time mate..NOBODY not even Sasha – though granted using examples of comic book popcorn entertainment blockbuster events like Justice league prbably confused a minority of you to assume Sasha was talking bout the mega uber blockbusters…and need i remind you…films past that oscar once embraced like for instance Ben Hur were boxoffice for it time gold but they did NOT diminish artistic integrity innovation and quality of the times…nor did Bridge over the River Kwai…or Return of the King…or Gladiator..all these movies were not just defined by what you mistakenly imply..they were recognized for honring the TRUE spirit of AMPAS.. surelyeven you can accept what most of us object to the sidelining of blockbuster- critically acclaimed brilliantly written adn executed crafter films that also have a generous dollop of high stakes drama at a serious level..that reflect and inform part of their stories issues of today..so i challenge you how would you objected to films like: Minority Report., Inception, a Current War, The Commuter, District 9, Three Kings, American Sniper, The Foreigner, The Looking Glass, Killing them Softly, Sleepers, ..and i could go on forever..do any of these films fit in with your ill informed criteria? are they not worthy of serious oscar consideration in their time of release in theire respective years? hoiw could you oppose that? yet all of the above did not figure in oscar calculations..not every film of this quality and standard i listed above i expect get nominated but surely the academy knows the inevitable heavy toll on it public image by us the devoted long loyal film followers aware of our film histroy question i have for you is: are you?
Oh! I see I didn’t do a good job of explaining myself. I love big blockbusters and agreed with all of your mentions above. My point is that SOME years we are hard pressed to find an Oscar worthy blockbuster. Obviously last year was different since most blockbusters were pushed to open later this year due to the pandemic. My point was that the academy should not be driven to nominate Godzilla vs Kong (for example) just to reach more people and improve ratings unless, of course, they feel it was actually an Oscar worthy film. Just my piece. Thanks for your feedback though.
There already is the People’s Choice Awards – let’s leave it there. Popular films are often nominated. There are fantastic instances where popularity and art meet and we get an inclusive Oscar worthy film – Jaws, ET, Chicago, Terms of Endearment, Kramer vs Kramer and Rain Man come to mind.
Certainly not the BP winners of the last decade, especially last year’s pick. They clearly reflect just how far the Academy has gone off the grid. The lower the boxoffice, the better. It smacks of exclusion.
” It smacks of exclusion.”
If I’m having an Oscar party, you want to know what people I want to “exclude”?
People too crude to appreciate Moonlight and The Hurt Locker and Mank.
I don’t need everyone to love those movies. But I sure as fuck don’t need them ruining our Oscar season or Oscar Night by griping about them all the time.
Same way if I’m having an Emmy Party. Why would I want to be around anyone who’s always pissing and moaning about brilliant TV like Marvelous Mrs Maisel and Schitt’s Creek?
At the end of the day it’s a celebration of movies and if your favorite wins it’s just the icing on the cake
If blockbusters were more thoughtful enterprises and not just beat em up children’s films they might stand a chance
You know who else obsessed about ratings? The Former Guy. And how did he wind up? Swirling down the crusty commode of history. Feel free to follow the leader.
I don’t understand the focus on ratings for the Oscars. They have always been an organisation started by them; for them and about them. If nobody watches, the power of winning one is still there. Having the nomination and the win boosts the actor, the filmmaker; the artist – and that in turn gets more projects greenlit using their fame and reputation.
I love the Oscars (who doesn’t who visits this site and comments frequently), but neither their choices or their telecast is ever made for me or for anybody else other than for themselves. Historically known as the night of ‘backslapping’. It will always be that. Does that lessen its cache or enjoyment? Evidently not, for all the evolution of sites like this one that focus on all things Academy Awards.
It is just one arbiter of what one group thinks is best in a given year.
It doesn’t change my experience of movie going or movie appreciation.
They like what they like. They always have.
It’s when they start making concessions to ‘look more relevant’, that they in actuality betray what they were created for some 94 years ago.
And tv becoming less and less relevant. That’s really is the part (that has been) disconnected.
What else do you think conservatives are going to talk about besides ratings? The social skills of Matt Gaetz?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba3b8551c9cd865489ac66b99d43c6be93596e86d193fae64ec7e7cd86c1af24.gif
scarey that girl Chloe (it is Chloe Grace Moretz)?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60265302b2d7946d79174c4aafe4f526e533781f768eff5745cf82047fe98f1c.gif
She deserves better career. It’s as if Hollywood didn’t know what to do with her after her breakout in Kick-Ass.
well, you would talk about ratings if they were good. But they aren’t so you naturally don’t like when low ratings are brought up.
Also, why should conservatives watch a show that doesn’t appeal to them anymore? Yet you never address or explain why liberals stir clear of it too despite awards now being designed to appeal to them? They are more diverse now…and ratings are down. They promote liberal politics…and ratings are down. So blaming conservatives for ditching the show that now caters to a different audience is like blaming men for Ghostbusters 2016/Terminator Dark Fate/Birds of Prey bombing. You take properties that were once for men and make them for women and…men were to blame when women didn’t show up. The real question in Oscar case is why liberal audience isn’t watching despite changes that they supposedly wanted to be made. It’s all there now and…audience keeps shrinking becuse they are losing interest.
[E]ach nominee would meet a baseline of having earned $100 million or the equivalent in views on streaming. If they did that, the films of the 2019 that would be considered would have included 1917, for instance, which could have won in the “popular” film category where Parasite won in Best Picture.
But 1917 didn’t earn the bulk of its total after it was nominated for a bunch of Oscars and arguably earned its $ due to the Oscars attention.
No. 1917 had a limited run until Jan 10 and then went wide. So increase was due to added theaters. Most movies that get awards boost don’t get a massive one. In particular, big boxoffice hits tend to have the smallest boost because they already exhausted most of the audience rush in early days and weeks. It’s slow rollout movies that benefit the most. 1917 is confusing because of mixed release, first limited then ultra wide that fell around the time of nominations.
It opened wide on Friday January 10 in anticipation of Monday January 13 Oscar nominations announcement. It earned $90M from Jan. 13 through Feb. 9, the Oscars ceremony.
It surely benefitted from the 10 Oscar nods and the perception of being a front runner to win. These types of “serious” movies time their release during the Oscar nomination period to maximize its b.o. potential.
But my point was that how would the Academy place 1917 in the Popular Category when at the beginning of the nominating process it was at the beginning of its limited release. Are they to project its popular success?
Will someone please explain this obsession about linking ratings to the actual awards? Do bad ratings lessen an artist’s achievement somehow?
“Meryl, we’re going to have to put an asterisk by that last Oscar we gave you because the ratings were in the crapper.”
No they just show that awards are now almost entirely an industry thing of interest and don’t have to be broadcast to indifferent non-industry audience that has much better options to spend a night. Ratings are relevant for this thread because it’s about saving the Oscars as in boosting ratings. That’s what saving means. The industry can hold private ceremony and just announce results like NBR, LAFCA, etc. Or go pay-per-view. So no broadcast ceremony or poorly rated one doesn’t lessen an artist’s achievement from the industry POV so why force it onto the audience that doesn’t care?
And you can rail all you like at what you view as antiquated (which is the equivalent of an old man shaking his fist at the sky) and guess what? The Oscars will be here long after you and I have shuffled off this mortal coil, and still be watched. On a different subject, did you watch Tucker last night? Man, he stuck it to those libs! I gotta go now and have my old lady make me turkey pot pie and do my laundry.
I don’t have Fox so no. Oscars will be here but broadcasting will die sooner than you think. They’ll have to opt for an alternative. And yes they are archaic af how’s that even for debate?
But anyway, it seems to me you are seething cause ratings aren’t going up despite all the accommodations they do every year. I guess you can’t put a spin that those changes work since they obviously don’t.
No
The Oscars have practically always been like this. Superhero films weren’t the first blockbusters to be shaded. And a lot of the fans of those films that drive up the box office aren’t necessarily people who would care about the Oscars anyway, even if their superhero film happened to get a nod.
The film awards in Chinese-speaking places (namely PRC, Taiwan, HK, Macau and arguably Singapore) aren’t necessarily awarding these record breakers either. The Golden Roosters, Golden Horses, Hundred Flowers, etc. also generally look for quality, including baity and genre films but also very arty films the Oscars wouldn’t touch.
If you want the Oscars to be a people’s choice popularity contest, and the ratings and pop culture relevance mean a lot to you, then cool, that’s you. But to a lot of us we aren’t here for any of that. We’re gone once that happens.
I also don’t think the Oscars should get too granular into foreign film and documentary categories. Like other national film awards, they’ll do all that themselves, and if the roles are potent enough to enter the Oscar main, then so be it.
The Popular Film Category already exists; it’s called Best Animated Feature Film.
SAG ratings plunge 55% from 2020. TNT 505,000 viewers; TBS 452,000. Last year had a combined 2m.
Like winners like ratings.
And????? Did your company lose revenue because of this, otherwise, it’s a mere recitation of facts that have nothing to do with anything else.
I have no.’company’. I’m longterm unemployed, as in 10.5 years. And if the Oscars have the same percentage plunge as every other awards show this year, prediction; ABC will have to consider renegotiating the Oscars tv deal.
That’s fine, less viewership, less revenue, lower rate charges. Supply and demand. But to inexorably link the Oscars and ratings as being co-dependent on each other is sheer folly. Honey Boo Boo kicked Nova’s butt around the block for years in the ratings. Did that mean Nova needed to rethink its approach? Award shows are a one-off loss leader in the business, everyone knows it and the only ones who care are the people who are financially invested.
that fundamentally wrong Chase..and you know it..some thankfully very few respec6tfully like yourself are trying to misconstrue oscar rediscovering their traditional virtue and values with conservatism..well i afraid your confused respectfull by that one..clearly you are if i not mistaken? anti publicly regarded critically acclaimed innovative cinematic films that elevate the quality and standard of film making? indie films only contribute so much…dont you think beyond ratings you oversimplifying as thankfuylly trend is publicly here against this idea– that just cos a big studio film make a movie cost more than 50 million to make..does that mean it relegated being dismissed as popcorn entertainment pop culture cult appeal only? careful how you frame your argument i assure you i far from only one against your misconstrued oversimplification that publicly enthused cared about films dont have a place for oscar right? cos you are wrong and you need face up to that…this debate is beyond values bnut what academy stands for..or do you think it thing of the past that a film like ben hurt winning in it time was celebrated BOTH by critics and audiences? why on earth would you be declaring this idea is a thing of the past? i challenging you here..
You had me at hello.
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That explains a lot.
Like to see you survive the hell I’ve been through when the job market is non existent. You wouldn’t last a month. I’ve survived for 10 and a half years.
You need to go outside
MODERATOR, THIS RUSSIAN COMMUNIST TROLL WON’T
LEAVE ME ALONE AND ONLY HAS TYPICAL LIBERAL HATE AND VILE….
how come you Russian communist loving lib trolls
always have so few comments? Get banned much?
yet another russian communist troll BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!..
this one can’t even refute one thing!
bye communist
BLOCKED BLOCKED BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!
R U A BOT?
Sorry to hear you lost so much money Sunday night, but we warned you to sell off your stock shares of TNT and TBS.
Name one thing in my post that was incorrect, mister adams. Name one fucking thing.
I’ll wait. One can’t lose what they don’t have. I got that info from Deadline, but didn’f feel like breaking up the URL because if anybody posts a URL to a relevant story, the post has to wait hours to be approved.
And why does this matter? Are blockbuster films being persecuted?
And why does this matter? Are blockbuster films being persecuted?
Popular movies have a number of awards made for them – MTV, Nick, Teen Choice, etc – and they are struggling just like the Oscars. It’s an outdated concept. People stopped looking for validation of their taste in awards. Now they have YT bloggers, social media, boxoffice competition. Decline of awards as the ultimate word on good/bad is also reflected in bigger and bigger gap between critic’s ratings and audience ratings. Fans are turning to each other and their designated fandoms for validation not to outside sources that they view as out of touch (critics, “serious” awards) or rigged PR stunts (the above mentioned awards for populist flicks). And they also know that nominations for blockbusters such as Black Panther and Joker are just desperate attempts to fool them for ratings sake but the winner is always going to be some artsy-fartsy movie that 3 people saw.
On top of that, everyone knows that, when it comes to Oscars, it’s Best Picture or nothing. All of these Animated, Foreign Language, Popular Movie, Documentary categories are secondary “well, we have to nominate you somewhere cause sure as hell we ain’t putting you in Picture line-up”.
Oh and fashion has been boring for years so no reason to tune in for that either.
You’ve written like 37 posts right on target. I don’t even need to scroll down anymore at this point. Case closed.
JOKER won the Golden Lion in Venice from a jury headed by Lucretia Martel.
It doesn’t matter. Regular Joe and Jane don’t know. For them, it’s another ploy to lure you into this interminable snoozefest that will award some WTF never-heard-of flick as always.
This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Oscars need.
They are already too much about popularity & politics.
The best quality films IMO are not the box office champs.
That’s why I think it’s near impossible to like quality films & like what the Oscars do to them
The key thing I disagree with Sasha is in this paragraph right at the beginning:
People just aren’t watching films, period. They are watching TV shows. The Emmys and the other TV awards are doing exactly what the Oscars have done in past decades and what Sasha seems to suggest the Oscars should do these days: they nominate and award things that people are actually watching and talking about. The Oscars couldn’t even nominate “relevant” sets of films if they wanted to, because they just don’t really exist.
The only films capable of reaching wide audiences are the sort of “event movies” like some big Marvel stuff, but even those aren’t treated like the Oscar-winning blockbusters of the past were. They aren’t necessarily things that people buzz about, they’re just products of an entertainment machine that people watch because maybe they’re invested in the franchise or they just enjoy films like that, but I’ve heard anyone tell me that “You should see Avengers: Endgame, it’s so great!”. They usually ask me “Have you seen Avengers: Endgame?” because it’s a thing people do. Like downloading a software update on our phone, it’s expected that we do it, we might even like it, but you won’t run around telling people to check out the new update because the features are just incredible.
That’s a massive difference between film and TV. My friends constantly ask each other to recommend a good TV show, or start spontaneously raving something they just saw. I almost never hear anything similar for films, and when I do, it’s actually almost always about an Oscar contender, even though most of my friends aren’t even close to the “Oscar bubble”. Parasite had extremely strong word-of-mouth, for example. This year, the only film I’ve heard spark spontaneous discussion was Promising Young Woman. Some Oscar nominees do break through to semi-wide audiences, even if others remain largely unknown. It would be counterproductive to sideline these films for ones that were more widely seen, and as an example we can cite Black Panther.
Black Panther was, of course, widely seen, critically acclaimed, and generally popular. But there was a pretty strong sentiment in large swathes of the population that a film like Black Panther shouldn’t be a Best Picture nominee. It’s likely that racism was to some extent involved, but I felt the sentiment to be more general than that. The thing was, Black Panther was a Marvel film, and it wasn’t much more than that. Audiences like Marvel films, they watch Marvel films, yet many of these people didn’t think that a Marvel film should be an Oscar film. Even the people who don’t watch Oscar films tend to view the Oscars as a sort of arbiter of filmmaking excellence (even if us on these boards generally dismiss this idea), and they’d rather not watch the Oscar-nominated films perceived to be “great filmmaking” than to see something they watched and consider popcorn entertainment be awarded with such a “prestigious” award.
In the coming years and decades, I see films moving towards a spot in our culture that is currently held by theatre. It’s becoming an art form that’s a bit niche and not routinely enjoyed by the masses. There will be a group of moviegoers, like the current core audiences of theatres, that will still crave filmmaking and will watch it regularly. This may well be the so-called “Oscar bubble”. Many other people will see films occasionally, like theatre, but not necessarily on a regular basis. Some films will become blockbusters and reach a massive audience, sort of like Hamilton did on Broadway. And indeed, the Oscars will lose much of its cultural influence, and become a thing for the main enjoyers of the art form, much like the Tonys today.
I’m not sure what can be done to restore the mainstream crowd’s interest in movies and the Oscars. Maybe nothing can be done, and we have to accept that culture is changing.
Emmy’s has terrible ratings too. Point being, there’s a difference between watching shows and movies, on one side, and watching (dull, self-congratulatory virtue-signaling) awards shows, on the other. I can easily binge Season 3 of Cobra Kai in one sitting but ask me to sit through an awards show and it’s a big fat NOPE. Many feel the same.
Yes, they’re called conservatives.
Nope. Ratings are falling because people whose politics Oscars are cheering don’t care for the Oscars and politics, even if agreeable ,certainly won’t attract them to that dinosaur. Also see Emmy’s whose ratings are falling like a rock and failing to interest younger audience despite having Zendaya cheer CHAZ/CHOP in her winner speech. Heck, Viola Davis’s “historical” win was met with the lowest ratings ever (for that time, they sunk even worse later), indicating that viewers to whom her win was meant to appeal weren’t there for it.
It’s no different from viewers, whose politics are attacked or simply not cheered, declining to watch. Most people on both sides of the political spectrum just don’t tune in to hear political lectures including ones they agree with. They have news programs for that.
It’s really simple. Politics don’t offset the loss of audience who cheers the other political team because they don’t attract audience that cheers the preferred political team. Just look how woke sports viewership plummeted. Mixing politics and entertainment never results in viewership spike only decline. But hey, if a show can sustain loss of audience, by all means keep up.
You’re right, I’m sorry. I remember when Meryl Streep started booing Patty Arquette because she talked about equal pay, and how Ed Harris threw a shoe at Michael Moore for chastising Bush. Please, your use of conservative dog whistles like “woke” “virtue signaling” and minimizing Viola Davis with “historical” just shows you’re trying to use your two-color brush to paint everyone as being the same. Nope, it’s just you.
Sure I’m the reason why ratings have been plummeting for years so much so that nominated popular movies and shows can’t woo back the audience they lost or attract new one to replace the old. Oh look, “historical” SAG wins abound yet ratings went belly up! Again!
How do you propose boosting ratings for award shows?
I don’t because nothing will boost them. It’s an outdated concept that didn’t move with times technologically either. Once upon a time, people had no other means to catch the winners but watch the whole telecast. now you can binge on a D+ Marvelshit and check the winners on your phone cause twitter will have clips of relevant speeches within seconds. You don’t have to watch the show. And new generations don’t. They didn’t grow up on it, don’t have the habit, don’t have a reason to respect them. Their viewing habits are entirely different. Binging streaming shows is in, awards snoozathons are out. Old audience is dying literally and figuratively (don’t like changes designed to attract new audience that isn’t responding and never will for reasons listed). It’s over for all awards shows. Dinosaurs of entertainment.
Wow, so you mean that in like 2 years they will disband the Oscars?
not in 2 years and they won’t disband it. awards will exist, they just won’t get a nationwide broadcast.
And when this TV thing gets going, mark my words, radio will cease to exist!
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Off topic, but: That´s actually a great film!
Best I saw last year
wait radio still exists?
Tired: We Saw Your Boobs
Wired: We Saw Your Junk https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1bd2d46e51f2cef26d40712d8e05c9e8bf1e8dc2c597647dc4e0d411c550ffb.jpg
NO! the mentality- i increasingly asdsuming- pls correct me if i wrong..your from left side of political ideology fair enough i respect our differences but wait..does that mean cos i dont share your views on some issues that that makes me conservative? what a oversimplification to equate ‘box office= conservatives’ i frankly appalled on small no of you who dare to think that on numerous occassions oscar have not undersold themselves not just to us but to their core traditional base trraditional is NOT conservative..other wise you have nothing but the SAME type of epics or same type of period setting dramas winng best picture and same old style stories..no the only people who have this ludicrous ‘groupthink’; are people that have your views..and this is EXACTLY why most of us feel oscar has gone off the rails…as sure enough is case..it merely convenient with no substance to the argument that what Sasha is saying is ratings-= deserved best picture winners i having serious doubts of the left ideology within hollywood to look past the ‘us vs. them’ and to say i not for some issues in society need to be elevated championed by the left is dead wrong…the issue is not therefore about ratings but films that BOTH public and critics praise how is it you can misconstrue what Sasha says? have think bout that those you who doing shallow groupthink?
I agree with giving much more significance to docs and foreign language films. Though my idea is to add more of them in BP noms. Yes, this might sound counterproductive since docs and foreign films are not the most profittable, but w/ the right one (e.g. Parasite, Blackfish, 13th, Fahrenheit 9/11, Ghibli), it can be a big opportunity to generate Oscar hype.
I like the documentary idea, I’d like to see best pic go back to 5 – and all categories stay at 5.
I’d love to see Best Picture go back to 5, too. It diminishes the honor to give it to 8 (and soon 10) movies. The reason to expand the field was supposedly to allow more ”popular” popcorn films to make the cut, but by & large, that didn’t really happen. Instead, it opened more slots for indies.
Is TV ratings the true barometer of the Oscars’ significance? How were the Oscars perceived before its popularity on TV?
It’s a true barometer of significance to viewers who are not industry people or connected to the industry (critics, pundits). So drop in interest means drop in significance. If less and less people care to see who awards crowned that means their role as the arbiters of good taste is diminishing. To wide audience. They are likely still a big deal to the industry people hence campaigning not slowing down.
— Even when the Oscars shows were at their peak in ratings, half of the watchers don’t care who won or who got nominated. They just watched for the celebrities and their shenanigans. —
yes and now they don’t have that cause celebrities started to take themselves way too seriously.
and the frocks! 🙂
While I’m not sure about Best Popular Film, I’m totally for more good-to-great popular films getting BP noms. I know this will be so unpopular in here, but for me films like Interstellar, Inside Out, Spider-Verse, James Bond, Mission Impossible, The Avengers, Frozen are good enough to be BP noms.
I agree with you on Frozen 100% (But not Frozen 2, a soul-crushing disappointment I still am shaken by)
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Aw, I adored Frozen II.
Even Anna is stunned by that admission.
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I didn’t adore it (as I did the original) but I liked it a lot.
Frozen II was the rarest of sequels. It earned more domestically and globally than the original. And it got screwed over by forking KLAUS and its ilk. II was better than 1
Nuh uh
100%. As of now, I think the switch back to a solid 10 with the different voting system will allow for 1 or 2 of those … hopefully.
Why CAN’T a well-reviewed, well-crafted “popular film” qualify as Best of the Year?
Yes, w/ solid 10, we knew Toy Story, District 9, and Up were in, so I think we can expect 1-2 more popular films are in per year.
We shouldn’t forget that the audience is not allowed to take part in the race anymore. Critics, press and industry model the way to follow with festivals and prizes. And after that, the film will be shown to the people, hardly ever before. So the conversation is mostly settled when the audience gets to the theater. Or to the living-room, or, well, wherever they watch them today. Crazy times.
I love the Oscars, but it’s been so disheartening to see the tastes of the Academy and the public grow so far apart. I miss the days when genre, popcorn movies, like ”Jaws,” ”Star Wars,” ”E.T.,” ”Raiders of the Lost Ark,” etc., could get nominated for Best Picture … and that was when there were only 5 slots!
The reason those blockbusters made the cut back then bc they were fresh. Most of them these days are rehash of those movies and done worse.
This is a very good point. What passes for quality entertainment now cannot hold candle to blockbusters of the aughts let alone some stone cold classics.
I think they still can…Black Panther, Toy Story 3, Avatar, LOTR, JOKER, etc. They just have to be special.
EXACTLY what most of us are advocating for is this is called common sense NOT consevatism extent the left get so confused with this notion is laughable
“This year I have had a consistent stream of people, some young, some old, some on the left, some on the right tell me that they do not watch the Oscars anymore. They’ve become too political is one of the main complaints; the movies are too obscure is another. And some have lamented that they don’t think the voting is about whether the films are actually good or not but something else – satisfying a need to reach gender parity, for instance..”
All i can do is quote from your most sincere truest of assessments of direction or lack thereof of the academy.. i read here on these matters u raise sasha in years i DO mean last decade at least of your focus on issue i advocated for suddenly courtesy of the academy’s arrogance and contempt toward the role of big screen films in shaping awards season …in contrast to the hand feeding sucking up to the twitter verse/ online sociopathsand how this mentality reflected thriugh far weaker bunch of oscar contenders on balance compare to what it could be…( if only ) is the no.1 issue that would be prudent for the Academy to take heed of seriously .
I warned for long time that Oscars are withering and dying slowly but surely… they can ill afford for this to happen. We know it surely they do too.
Coincidence ? You write thistype of article literally after my impassioned hypothetical letter i penned to AMPAS warning on consequences of disregarding totally blockbuster critically acclaimed publicly enthused about films ( no does not include star wars type films).
In fact during the lockdown i like to list some truly underrated gems that are type got respectable box office but critics praised… and the public would talked about number these films ideas more ..stories that resonates to us educational film goers …but does not lose sight of need for sense of boldness and creative vision. And in number of films i done ‘ catch up viewing’ listed below NONE of them whatsoever during the period of the corrupted severely credibility eroding pref.ballot system got nominated nor considered in awards season.
Last year proved the benefit of having 10 nominees best picture. It do gigantic insult and dissrrvice to entire purpose of academy it make things worse not better to intriduce a ‘ pop film ‘ category ..as it say that big screen studio publicly enthused criticalky acclaimed films just wont cut it for outright best picture. This be the incinerator after final nail in coffin that scorch all thay AMPAS goal is about to EMBRACE out what lomg supposed to be and used to be from 80’s- 2005 (abouts )… since inception of modern critically acclaimed blockbuster … the best of bunch have competed with lower budget fare… there was balance respectability .
But since pref ballot. Remarkably ( or not ) this list i add to as my memory comes back for like 25 films i seen since first lockdown start pandemic in march ( then bqcklog of delayed orders when they came saw me fall behind by further +10 new delibered arrivals in ome day lol)..
So my memory thete be more majority of lusted films i expand on that jyst as worthy those who made the cut best pixture as those who did each year from approx 2004- 2020 Are: ( note most films i ordered are in timeframe of actusl pref ballot reform from 2007- 2020) of ones i list most films beloq and expand on this list of snubs i have in my collectiin that i scene are particularly in the 2007- 2016 category ..the evolutionary prime period of pref ballot ;
In no order lusyed just as films should been worthy i scene are:
– the ‘ Skyline trilogy ‘ should been nominated at very least in 3rd film”
– Infini
– the looking glass
– the humanity bureau
– the lost city of z ( still watching def brilliant movie already)
– the dark knight well.. duh!
– interstellar
– the night hunter
–
Err shame cant remnber 25 even wull keep u posted wirh this list i know there more.. for record none these largely be defined as purely pop culture entertainment mega uber blockbuster films …it oversight stubbornness complete lack of vslue for bold creative visiob thay works in cinema this ommision is what killing the academy.
Solution ? Strip back most recent reform of pref ballot altogether keep to basics if need be… and i think reqlly look at MInimum expansion of best pic contenders 2 10 nominees and max of 14 let remember that there what? Say in critics list 100-150 and in audiences mind what one afford realusticalky maybe ?40 or 50 if u rich see a year of them it wtill awfully smsll % still make best pic u know what ? I evrn expand best director and screenplay and primary qctibg categories only from 5 -7 max. I think we all forgive academy dor longer show if thry featured more balanced all riund inclusive race dont u think?
But for cripe sake..lord save us… do NOT discredit undervalue core category best oicture by intrifucing pop film Category g-d!
–
If anyone says the Oscars have become “too political” it means one thing and one thing only. It’s not “their” politics.
you honestly think that my list of films i seen in period since pref ballot that never saw light of day are about politrics? so this is the real ‘
chase’? overlook the facts and invent fiction in what people say when they challenge the left groupthink? challenge groupthink is to look deeper at the problems like all of awards season respectfully i thought you smart enough to understand that by now ..you been round here while haven’t you? m,uch as i welcome your sarcasm even your political differences they are NOT the decisive factor believe it or not between what i stand for..
have you not noticed gradually as a precedent that been set thankfully online there a new form of thinking emerging online to counter the group think? for example..even awards daily as a collective are growing weary of fine line between elevating certain social issues in visionary bold not just literal interpretation to deservedly make the cut for best picture and distinction between that and the gesture purely message films overshadowing the clear proven for last 14 years at LEAST or longer of far more worthy bold discussion making semi blockbusters that leave their mark and far bigger indelible impression than the ultimately overdominating for last 14 years of the gesturing political point scoring films?
i think it says a lot even awards daily after some years tolerating what most us see as B.S. that they are forming rightfully a counter to idea that a popular film that hugely critically acclaimed and dares to confront some form of important issues that reflkect in our cuylture or society or advanced the cauyse of breakthrough filmmaking so these films should keep getting sidelined? hardly a conservative porposition right?
I think it’s an incredibly bad idea to disqualify films from Oscar consideration unless they make a minimum financial box office haul. The minute that’s put in is the minute the studios slam their wallets shut to any production that isn’t a tentpole or comic adaptation. Why the hell fund an art film or prestige drama if they aren’t eligible for Oscars? A lot of really original filmmakers would flee to television and the further dumbing down of movies would continue anabated.
I would also suggest that the people who base the totality of their life experiences on their political party will not be swayed to LUV Oscar again even if the entire BP film was Marvel, Pixar, and Zack Snyder bilge. I get the desire to reach out to the other side of the aisle seeking common ground, there’s also something incredibly counterproductive about trying to convince people to find common ground when one party is wholly uninterested in it. There’s a genius Flannery O’Connor story called the Barbershop where the good guvmint integrationist is nearly driven insane by the racists at the barbershop who don’t have the heart to tell him that they don’t care how persuasive his civil rights arguments are, they just find it funny he’s trying.
I think it’s high time for the Academy to stop acting ashamed of who they nominate. Are these the BEST films in their opinion or are they not? Stop flagellating because Nomadland might win big prizes, be happy that something different got into a theater for a change.
Edit: By the way, the notion that the Oscar ceremony has become “too political” is laughable. In 1975, Bert Schneider upon winning the Documentary Oscar for the Vietnam film Hearts and Minds whipped out a congratulatory telegram from the freaking VIET CONG. Do I need to remind everyone that angry protesters were literally burning Vanessa Redgrave in effigy in 1977 and she responded in kind by calling them FROM THE STAGE “Zionist hoodlums”. Or the near fistfights between angry members of the Deer Hunter and Coming Home nominees. Do we really think Michael Moore’s flop sweat rant about W was worse than that? Most winners thank their agents and people on the film but the next day disinterested partisans act as if the winners whipped out their copies of Fidel Castro’s Memoirs.
In certain states, you can go into DraftKIngs shops and bet the Oscars. Best bet : Husavik to win best song at 5-1 odds. It’s at 10-1 if you’re overseas. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ff3bab1f094de0490023fb774b1938c59192d0523fdcfeeeb409eccf0c3354e4.gif
Maybe the Academy should cut an exclusive deal with an online betting site. Extra publicity, and people gamble on everything.
I like Roger Moore’s expression when Sacheen Littlefeather went onstage to refuse to accept Marlon Brando’s Oscar in 1973.
(Tucker Carlson was 5 years old that year, and this Oscar incident traumatized him for the rest of his damn life.)
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I totally agree with this article, and in fact, I think Michelin should start rating McDonald’s restaurants. Enough with the stuffy 3-star bougie eateries, we want to know what they think of where the REAL PEOPLE eat!
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The snark in my response nonewithstanding, I would actually suggest that the presentation of the ceremony itself needs to change with the changing times. Get red of the interpretive dance sections, no more special sizzle reels based on the “theme” of the show. Use multiple networks to simulcast. Devote a station to the backstage press conferences. Show behind the scene work live in real time. GoPro cameras from the audience, or the upper deck or similar.
Hell, allow BETTING on the ceremony in US casinos. You’d be surprised how interested people would become if even a fraction of casual viewers got hooked by that, all the better.
Thinking outside the box instead of whining about the films that win would be refreshing.
I like idea #3, and I wonder if it could be expanded to include animated films as well. Right now there are awards for animated feature film and animated short-subject. How about expanded that to include directing, writing, and voiceover work, maybe motion capture acting as well? Would probably require these categories to be moved to the governor’s awards ceremony which is where I assume the expanded documentary categories would be relocated.
Recently on a podcast I heard a rundown of the highest-grossing movies of 1971. The top 10 (in North America) was:
1. Fiddler on the Roof
2. Billy Jack
3. The French Connection
4. Summer of ’42
5. Diamonds Are Forever
6. Dirty Harry
7. A Clockwork Orange
8. Carnal Knowledge
9. The Last Picture Show
10. Willard
One of the things that’s really interesting about this list is that four of the five best picture nominees are on this list. But among those four are The French Connection, A Clockwork Orange and The Last Picture Show. So the problem with the Academy’s tastes moving from the public’s is not just because of the Academy but also because of the audience. Yes, the Academy has boxed itself in but so have the mainstream audience and the big studios. A mid-budget movie no longer seems valuable to a studio because the possibility of a movie making 100 million dollars and turning a steady profit isn’t seen as worthy of the studio’s interests anymore, what seems to matter is whether a movie can make a billion dollars. And as box office trends have proven with for example the state of original science fiction and fantasy in recent years, large sections of the ticket-buying audience seem risk-averse, sticking to brands they know and perhaps consider “safe” in some way. Holding the ideal of “popular works need to get nominated” as something incredibly valuable is understandable but I feel like in this current climate it turns into a situation of two closed-in communities where all the blame about division is thrown at the feet of one of the communities while the other is held as something completely innocent and pure.
I also don’t think the preferential ballot is what’s holding popular movies from getting nominated, which is probably the real problem. The voting system for the nominations is similar, it’s just the amount of rounds and percentages that the increase to first 10 nominees and then drop to the sliding scale has caused. Also, about
, I don’t think the failings of the Oscars are what’s making local productions successful in countries that aren’t America. The Oscars just don’t have that power over Hollywood and they just don’t have that power over audiences that can turn American cinema into the only dominating force at international box offices. And why does American cinema need to be the only dominating cinematic force in other countries? For example I’m not that excited about the state of Finnish cinema right now but on some level I like the theoretical idea that if someone I know goes to a theatre, they actually have options outside of just the worldwide monoculture of American movies. What also strikes me as odd about this piece of text is that it at least to me implies a stronger observation and focus on America and the interests of American audiences as a way to help Hollywood outside of the US.
1971 was a great year for a happy balance of art and commerce.
Want another snapshot of a Best Moneymaker category, look at the top 6 movies of 1965.
1. The Sound of Music – $72,000,000
2. Doctor Zhivago – $43,000,000
3. Thunderball – $27,000,000
4. Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines – $14,000,000
5. The Great Race – $11,400,000
6. That Darn Cat! – $9,500,000
highbrow to lowbrow and every brow in between
yea really not that complicated would it kill the academy to look at more educated informed views of us as opposed to their unhealthy self destructive co dependency on social media vented outrage on twitter etc? to engage with sites like this not just social media could be the medicine to oscars self inflicted sickness ey?
yea really not that complicated would it kill the academy to look at more educated informed views of us as opposed to their unhealthy self destructive co dependency on social media vented outrage on twitter etc? to engage with sites like this not just social media could be the medicine to oscars self inflicted sickness ey?
Even Frida’s unibrow?https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa48963091285542174a5a8ba2e31e2fa03843dfb5e3dc3cd6c19074b7bbb4e1.gif
Nopety Nope. Black Panther and Joker nominations were met with more ratings decline. Billie Eilish performance was met with ratings decline.
Young people don’t care for this type of entertainment and they don’t seek validation for their taste there either. They have boxoffice wars for that (Endgame vs Avatar fight for worldwide crown was very big among the young in 2019 as was Avatar’s China re-release that put it back on the top). They will never get hooked on awards shows. While older audience that used to value them stopped and is leaving in droves because political pandering turns them off.
Finally, everyone knows that Popular Movie = Best Picture. It’s like Animated Movie. It’s not the same. It’s a consolation prize that is much more consolation and much less a prize since it isn’t THE prize.
It’s over.
I think going back to ten nominees will help get a “popular” film nominated. This year it could’ve been Borat.
But I don’t think that’ll solve the problem of increasing viewership.
Award shows need to go back to being “fun.” Stop being about politics.
They need to be shorter. Three hours is too much for the casual viewer. Two hours maximum.
And maybe it needs to start being streamed.
Maybe documentary and international feature films should have their own award show. Where they can be rewarded with ten nominees etc for us super fans. And a separate award show for the less popular categories. And keep the live telecast for just the popular categories.
they tried to be shorter and failed. and they will never stop being about politics cause you can’t control what X number of winners is going to say. You may reign in host’s political diatribe or keep them hostless but someone is always bound to say something to create headlines. Once upon a time, stars were advised against getting political. now it’s the opposite. that cat ain’t going back into the bag.
I don’t think the problem is that Hollywood and the Oscars have become more insular. It’s the audience that’s changed.
Rain Man dominated the 1988 Oscars. It was also the highest grossing film that year. It grossed $350 million, which is the equivalent of $750 million in today’s dollars. 1994 champ Forrest Gump was also the box office champ; it grossed $650 million, which is over a billion dollars adjusted for inflation.
Is there anyone, anywhere, who thinks that these movies would gross $750 million or $1 billion if they came out nowadays? Would they be anywhere near the top 5 in box office? Of course not. They’d consider $200 million and a top 10 finish to be a massive success. Oscar darling Kramer vs. Kramer was a huge box office smash. How would Marriage Story have done in theaters?
The least watched Best Picture winner is still, I believe, The Hurt Locker. But Platoon was a huge box office success, grossing well into nine figures. Is The Hurt Locker a significantly more challenging, less accessible film? Not really. Audiences just don’t show up for that sort of film like they used to.
This is partially an issue of how and to whom these films are marketed, but marketing responds to the audience. They can’t force people to go watch these films.
But there’s light at the end of the tunnel! 2019 was a great year for Cinema (to borrow Marty’s term) connecting with audiences. In addition to Joker, we had 1917, Knives Out, Little Women, Ford v Ferrari, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood all doing great at the box office. It’s possible that with the Avengers saga complete and the MCU moving more into streaming TV, the franchise/superhero wave has crested a bit and there’s more room for other films. Fingers crossed.
As for the hand wringing about politics, how is this new? Robert De Niro skipped the 1978 Oscars, in which he was a strong contender, because he didn’t want to face the anti-Deer Hunter crowd protesting outside the building. Politics have always been a part of it.
American Sniper was nominated for several Oscars, including Best Picture, but Fox News still ran segments about how it was “snubbed” for being “too conservative”. And we’re just a couple of years removed from calls to boycott First Man because the fucking flag wasn’t big enough. You’re never going to satisfy a bloc who have built a multi-billion dollar industry around telling people to be angry about stupid shit, so there’s no use in trying.
Looking over your 5 point plan:
1. Yes yes yes yes yes. Everyone ignore Twitter.
2. I agree that “Best Popular Film” is a terrible name, but changing the name doesn’t change any of the underlying problems. Whatever you call the category, it’s clearly the kids’ table.
3. The documentarians would probably like this, and it would make the show leaner, so sure. Good idea.
4. This would be fun for film buffs but do little to connect with audiences.
5. I think inviting Kevin Hart to host would be a great idea. He’d be good at it, and it would be a way of demonstrating that Twitter drama doesn’t run the world.
The bottom line is, a few changes might make the Oscars a bit more watchable, but they won’t fix the underlying problem, which is that audiences don’t watch TV broadcasts and movies in the same way that they used to. Hollywood doesn’t need to change the kind of movies it makes and awards; they need to figure out a way to sell quality Cinema to the general public to the degree that they did in the “good ol’ days”.
But that’s a situation that may be improving on its own (or not), so hooray…question mark?
Yes audience has changed because new generations have different kind of entertainment. They never grew up on Oscars and other awards and now those awards aren’t appreciated by older audience either so why would younger pick up the slack? It’s an outdated form of entertainment that peaked in the 90s and it’s been downhill from there. It’s over.
Your points about the box office/Oscar hits of the 80s versus now is SPOT ON. The audience has, indeed, changed.
I don’t see how a Best Popular Film category would be anything but a condescending pat on the head towards films that they think are “good, but not good enough” to compete for the big prize. The Academy has been bleeding in the ratings for years, but guess what? So has everything else. The Super Bowl, NBA Finals, and NASCAR are all bleeding viewers, and nobody says they need to add any bells and whistles to bring viewers back. And while there is genre bias within the Academy, I’d argue that since The Dark Knight omission, Black Panther is one of only two superhero movies that have actually deserved a Best Picture nomination (the other is Into the Spider-Verse, but animation is its own kettle of fish.) Is there any indication anywhere that more viewers would have tuned in if Avengers: Endgame had been nominated? All a Best Popular Film category would do is turn the Academy into the MTV Movie Awards.
I would argue that Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man 2 was also deserving of one, especially over a film like Finding Neverland
You’re absolutely right about this. Roger Ebert even thought it deserved a Best Picture nomination.