Carrie Coon On Bertha’s Assured Ascension After Winning the Opera War for ‘The Gilded Age’

Bertha Russell is more than happy to go to war. After spending the first season of HBO’s gloriously restrained drama The Gilded Age by getting her foot in the door of New York City society, she sets her sights on making sure we remember her legacy by going toe-to-toe with member of the old guard. Carrie Coon imbues Bertha with an unshakable confidence, but she is tested publicly and privately in the second season of Julian Fellowes’ series. Will you join her and be on the right side of history?

Bertha Russell refuses to give up. I would hate to be on the opposite side of any fight with her. Donna Murphy’s Mrs. Astor, thought, tells Christine Baranski’s Agnes van Rhijn that Bertha is “more of a fighter than I realized.” Bertha, and Carrie, are comfortable with being a little underestimated.

“I think any woman understands that you can, in fact, use feeling underestimated to their advantage,” Coon says. “People don’t see you coming. When you hear about women operating in men’s spheres like journalists, they say the same thing. You could be in the room and men would, automatically, discount their presence, and, therefore, they would say anything and everything to them. Bertha understands that, and she would like to be considered formidable. She’s happy for people to discover it in their own time.”

Early in the season, Mrs. Winterton (formerly Turner) reveals to Bertha that she was naked in George’s bed when she worked as a lady’s maid in the Russell home. When she confronts her husband about it, Bertha cannot even be near him, a strange sight since George and Bertha have the most loved and fawned over marriage of the entire show. When he steps forward, she steps back, and Coon explains that it’s a natural and universal feeling whenever someone gets hurt.

“Our DP for that episode might tell you that I walked out of my light, so I think I gave them some trouble in the edit,” Coon jokes, with a laugh. “When you’re working in period, you often times think of the physical restraint, but, of course, people then are still people. Their clothes were just a little tighter. It felt real to for Bertha to move away from George since we do that when we are mad at someone, don’t we? I love that that scene wasn’t about whether she thought she did something with Turner–she believes him. It was humiliating to her that he lied about it ever happening. On some level, I think Bertha knows that she can’t make a big stink about it as it would betray her class. The only place where she can react like that is in her home. In some ways, we show that the only time that Bertha can be vulnerable is when she is with George, and that’s a vulnerable moment. While she is putting distance between her and her husband, it is a nice engine for the second season for them as a couple to find their way to one another. Their foreplay has to do with social machinations which is very fun.”

When speaking about Morgan Spector, as George, Coon stands up to show me that she is wearing a George Russell t-shirt (I bought one immediately), and it’s clear that their easy friendship extends to off-screen as it does on. No wonder everyone loves the Russells.

“He’s also very nice and a feminist–all very attractive qualities,” she says. “Morgan and I both have very healthy marriages, so we both love that George and Bertha’s marriage hinges on a level of mutual respect and admiration. We both understand it about the world. Isn’t it sad that respect is sexy? It’s so lacking in our discourse. It’s all people want, and it’s really hard to find.”

When I joked that I wouldn’t be able to resist bopping Winterton on the nose, Coon quickly replies, “It’s about the long game.” This is why Bertha Russell is Bertha Russell.

One of the only people who sees Bertha as a respectable threat is Nathan Lane’s Ward McAllister. He is torn between her ambitions and his loyalty to Mrs. Astor, but when no one is looking, McAllister and Bertha can gossip like no one else can. Is this an alliance that will continue to grow?

“What I love is that they recognize that they are both opportunists,” Coon says. “There are no bones about it. It’s very much on the level. She knows that he can throw he over to Mrs. Astor to any moment, so she has to make it worth his while to stay loyal to her. Bertha knows the kind of creature that he is, and Bertha is grateful that he sees her as formidable. And they’re catty gossips–they love to gossip. They’re willing to go there when it’s impolite to do so, and their audience is privy to all of that. We lean right into that deliciousness.”

Even though we know the history of the Metropolitan Opera, Fellowes ratchets up the drama in that last episode. Will all of New York City’s old guard stand their ground, or will they give way to the inevitable and allow new money in? Coon recognizes that if the pendulum swung in favor of Mrs. Astor, it would’ve been a devastating blow to Bertha, but you can’t stop what’s coming.

“It would’ve been humiliating, but Bertha would’ve persisted,” she explains. “We know from history that The Academy went under and The Met survived. The thing that we know from The Gilded Age is that the new money wins in every sphere. Mrs. Astor was eventually brought to her knees because their money was undeniable. We talk about this comparison to The Met Gala. Eventually Anna Wintour had to let The Kardashians in, because they were the zeitgeist. They were influencing fashion and the culture in a way that became undeniable. It’s a similar thing. The gatekeepers have to back down. Certainly, though, Bertha losing would’ve been a defeat. George would have had a bad week that week.”

Will New York’s society scheme to bring Bertha Russell down? Is she worried or is this the beginning of an ascension?

“An ascension,” Coon says matter-of-factly. “I think she is feeling quite triumphant, and she already has a plan for Gladys. Her next obstacle might be George. Bertha won, and she will never forget Turner’s face.”

I couldn’t let Coon go without thanking her for being such a beacon of hope for the love of physical media. She reminds me to keep going in a very Gilded Age way…

“The gatekeepers are not going to keep us way from the things that we love,” she says.

The Gilded Age is streaming now on Max.