So, I suppose one ought to acknowledge the odd story floating that Marion Cotillard has insulted all of America with her questioning the events of 9/11. Supposedly, the story goes:
I think we’re lied to about a number of things,” she said, singling out September 11. Referring to the two passenger jets flown into the World Trade Centre, Miss Cotillard said: “We see other towers of the same kind being hit by planes, are they burned? There was a tower, I believe it was in Spain, which burned for 24 hours. It never collapsed. None of these towers collapsed. And there[New York], in a few minutes, the whole thing collapsed.” Miss Cotillard suggested that the towers, planned in the early 1960s, were an outdated “money sucker” which would have cost so much to modernise that it was easier to destroy them.”
I realize it is sort of old news right now and Cotillard’s lawyer has released a statement that she never really meant to insult Americans, and yadda yadda yadda. Surely we live in a society evolved enough to allow for differences of opinions? How many of us still believe that President Kennedy was shot by our own government? Those who are inclined to believe conspiracy theories will always believe conspiracy theories. I guess I’m wondering why it matters to anyone what Ms. Cotillard thinks? No offense to her but I could care less, honestly.
She was Amazing and well deserved her Oscar.
Oh, and if you haven’t watched “Loose Change 9/11” yet. Then it is a must. This Administration has lied to us, almost 100% of the time, and 9/11 was no exception. watch the movie, and decide for yourself!
Rock on Marion, beautiful, smart, talented, and lovely girl!
Marion Cotillard haters… She doesn’t need Hollywood by the way. She will triump doesn’t matter where… I’m remember… the best actors and actresses are working outside Hollywood: Javier BArdem, Cate Blanchett (BEst roles are uotside Hollywood system), Gong Li, Tony Leung, Moritz Bleibtreu, juliette Binoche… Yes, she will fine
Ha, you can obviously tell how tired I was when I wrote that. Typo-city. Yeesh.
As someone who professionally uses the scientific method I must say that Ryan and K display a more refined and nuanced understanding of it than those arguing against them.
All the Marion Cotillard haters need not fear. She’s working with Micheal Mann in Public Enemy. Mann also directed the great Gong Li, a far more beautiful and talented actresss than Cotillard, and look where her career in American films went. With any luck the same will happen to Marion LaRetard
I’m sick of this back and forth, so I’ll just pre-empt your breakdown of my post, Mario, and leave with this:
There is nothing ILLOGICAL about a question. That’s why it’s a QUESTION.
When something in the logic, or science, or facts doesn’t make sense, or add up, or make sense, you question it.
I don’t see how that is overly romantic, or idealistic, or naive.
Mario, you come across as one of those people who criticize Barack Obama for instilling “false hope” in people. Am I right, there?
You also seem to think that people who disagree with official events, which seem suspicious, are conspiracy theorists fishing for a controversy rather than real people looking for real answers.
Look, I’m a science person. More often than not, my brain deals in logic and reasoning. But I’m not so narrow-minded to think it unreasonable or “senseless” to question the abstract. Questions and curiosity don’t have to “abide” by anything.
Science and facts can be made up or twisted when necessary. It happened before we invaded Iraq, it happened during Nazi Germany, and it was done by the Bush administration to “prove” that homosexuality is a choice. (Though, in fairness, they enlisted the church to do that research…)
If you think that every aspect of science in 100% grounded and infallible, then you’re wrong. I mean, until relatively recently, we had no idea that atoms were made of tinier parts. And important scientific inventions like the X-Ray and penicillin were discovered completely by accident. Science doesn’t abide by order or logic. We are STILL discovering our universe. So why do questions — QUESTIONS — have to abide by a set of rules?
I’m more than happy with my “romanticized” way of thinking because I am proud of my ability to be both logical and a little out-of-the-box. I just don’t think it’s right to belittle those questions that don’t “abide” by logic or by my own way of thinking.
“spinning off on tangents with thousands of words that get increasingly strident and ridiculous”
Ironic
Inadvertently, this extremely tedious clash with Matt and Mario Borat demonstrates in microcosm how the media as a whole has totally overreacted to an innocuous remark by Marion Cotillard.
With scant awareness of what she actually said, and absolutely no knowledge of what she personally believes, they took the opportunity to demonize her, and by proxy vilify anybody else who dared to come to her defense.
All I had to say was “I like her even more” and later raise the point that engineers are capable of making colossal blunders, and at the very next step of “logic” I’m branded as “psychotic” and “barely made it out of high school.”
The only encouraging thing about this accidental experiment in media fact-twisting and slander is to witness how quickly the audience lost interest in the hateful tone, tuned out and moved on to more interesting topics.
Smart and considerate readers don’t have time for this trash. Meanwhile, the rabid talking heads (exemplified by Matt and Mario Borat) stay on the attack, spinning off on tangents with thousands of words that get increasingly strident and ridiculous — seemingly unaware that being marginalized and their rantings ignored. (My mistake, similar to Marion’s, was making an appearance at the Bozo and Jackal Sideshow in the first place.)
Marion continues on her dazzling career path, a bit battered and baffled, but unscathed. The media may froth at the mouth a little while longer, but they’ll soon latch onto another meaningless non-story to blow all out of proportion.
At no point in this pathetic unraveling did I ever offer my own personal opinion about anything that happened on 9/11. But that’s not a problem for Matty or Mario Borat. All I had to do was express my genuine concern that we can’t trust much of what the Bush administration and the media have “force-fed” to the public for the past 8 years, and that’s enough to brand me as a conspiracy theorist.
(The fact that Mario Boratto claims be anti-Republican is no more important in this equation than Fox News offering weak-willy Alan Colmes to “balance” Sean Hannity, and only proves that Democrats can be assholes too.)
Matt fizzles out more quickly by sputtering that anything presented by the opposing side is “pointless” and “irrelevant” — summing up nicely the entire non-story and subsequent overblown hoopla.
Mario Borat more aggressively demonstrates his decline, stumbling to the finish line (we can only hope) in defense of engineers with gems like, “how does the environmental havoc they have caused factor into their credibility?”
(um…? ha!)
I’ll leave you guys to conduct your sniping little talk show that nobody is watching anymore, and I’ll follow Marion Cotillard’s example by moving on and focusing on things I enjoy more.
————————
Though I truly hate to sift through the spittle Mario Boratto has been spouting, there’s one glaring lie Mario Borat is trying to perpetuate that I think needs to be shot down.
Ryan: “Listen to the scientists, Mario? Should we listen to the same EPA scientists who assured the rescue workers at Ground Zero that the toxic air they were breathing had been thoroughly tested and was perfectly harmless?”
Borato: “Once again, you assertion is that because these individuals did not have the full information they willfully lied and thus the entire scientific community is under suspicion.”
Ground Zero Toxic Death Fumes Covered Up From Day One
Government Officials and agencies knowingly exposed 9/11 rescuers to deadly air and then tried to cover it up
So, yes Boratto, there were lies willingly told on 9/11 and throughout the aftermath. There’s a young kid getting his legs blown off in Iraq at this instant because of the mountain of lies that have been told. Read the article — or as you arrogantly sneer at others, “Educate yourself.”
Yes, Matt, there are lies we know about and lies as yet uncovered. Count on it, buddy.
It’s taken decades for the public to fully realize the extent of the devastation inflicted on the Gulf Coast wetlands, when the incompetence of engineers and the duplicity of government came together in an tragic conflux of ignorance, waste and greed.
They sure engineered the hell out of Louisiana, didn’t they, Matty? Together they engineered the systematic destruction of the Mississippi Delta and the city of New Orleans — one of America’s most precious ecological and economic treasures.
It’s taken half a century to uncover all the lies and negligence, and that’s why I fear it will be decades before we learn the full truth and ultimate consequences of the devastation wrought by Bush and the neo-cons.
And no, the fact that they’ve callously used 9/11 as the primary pole to prop up their tragic circus tent of lies does not encourage me to think they have told us all there is to know.
You’re not psychotic if you don’t see it that way. Just a little pathetic.
“I’m saying engineers can make mistakes. You seem to be saying they’re completely incapable of the slightest error or misjudgment.
You’re calling me psychotic because I wonder if some engineering projects are poorly conceived? ”
Since I can no longer edit my previous post I will have to make a new one. Oh well.
How does the fact that human beings make mistakes disqualify the testimony of engineers? We are talking about a consensus of opinion, not one man.
I ask this because you questioned the credibility of such testimony before and I have to wonder what the link is?
Furthermore, how does the environmental havoc they have caused factor into their credibility?
“I have no problem with people who want or need to accept easy answers in times of great trauma, but I bristle when anyone tries to tell us the very act of questioning is worthless unless we “have proof.” ‘
It is not narrow-mindedness Ryan, it is logical thinking. I am not looking for an easy answer, I am looking for logical ones.
“Taking phrases out of context is a useful tool for tools like Mario Boretta.”
There may have been times where I have shortened a paragraph for the sake of those reading the quote, but I have never ignored their points.
How dare you accuse me of such a thing? Are you referring to the fact I did not quote back every single line of text that K wrote? Don’t just make an accusation you can’t back up. Show where I used that to my advantage when discussing the subject matter of conspiracy theories.
“The same sort of expert engineers who designed the levees in New Orleans, Mario? Or their predecessors who thought it would be a great idea to tamper with the fragile ecosystem of wetlands and estuaries in the Mississippi Delta — for the convenience of oil tankers — and ultimately succeeded in permanently wrecking one of the country’s most important and historic port cities? Expert engineers like them?”
I am laughing way too hard. The levees in New Orleans were built to withstand a certain a mount of force. The amount of force that they were exposed to on that tragic day was more than what they were built for. Is this the engineer’s fault? In what way does any of this discreet the profession and their knowledge of physics?
“Listen to the scientists, Mario? Should we listen to the same EPA scientists who assured the rescue workers at Ground Zero that the toxic air they were breathing had been thoroughly tested and was perfectly harmless?”
Once again, you assertion is that because these individuals did not have the full information they willfully lied and thus the entire scientific community is under suspicion. Let’s say that these men did lie. How exactly does this affect the testimony of scientist outside the reach of the administration who have debunked crazy stories about 9/11?
“You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that this administration takes every opportunity to cloud the truth and has proven time after time their contemptible willingness to employ any devious means to cover up their own gross negligence.”
Here’s the wonderful thing: The vast majority of the testimony which debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories comes from individuals who are not related to our government. They use data that can be replicated (such as the force with which such a plane could hit the pentagon) to dismiss erroneous assertions about a cruise missile and such nonsense.
“No — literally — you don’t have to be a rocket scientist in the Bush administration. You just need to claim to be one, on your fabricated resume to become a NASA official, as George Deutsch did when he got his hot-shot Bush appointment on the basis of bogus claims that he graduated from Texas A&M.”
And this discredits the rest of the scientific community in what way? Once again, I am not relying on testimony provided by government officials. I am relying on data available from the testimony of various experts around the world.
Your entire argument is that, somehow, the logic that is applied to critical thinking in academic matters should not factor into questioning of any type.
“The same George Deutsch who censored and re-wrote valid scientific studies to eliminate any mention of global warming for his boss in the White House — until one of those censored scientists, James Hansen, had the balls to risk his job by speaking up and exposing the lies.”
How does any of that disprove the fact that all conspiracy theories thus far (like those presented in the document I linked to) can be disproved by anyone with a remedial knowledge in the hard sciences?
Your point about the misinformation regarding the air quality of ground zero highlights the fact that the public did not have the complete story in regards to THE AIR QUALITY. It does not lend any credence to a wider conspiracy being afoot and it certainly does not discredit the scientific community that has proven such theories to be rubbish.
All this piece of information does is confirm that the administration is full of shit. Guess what? I am not talking about the administration when I refer to expert testimony. The document I linked to is a prime example of what I am talking about, using testimony from air traffic controllers among others to arrive at a conclusion. It is independent testimony like this which backs up the “official” story. Don’t let your distrust of the government inhibit you from seeing what is slapping you in the face.
I guess they are in the pocket of big government too, inhibiting our free thought.
“So, Mario, I’m happy to join with k, and anyone else who’s not blindly willing to fall into lockstep with whatever bullshit du jour this administration is serving on a silver platter to someone like yourself, Mario — someone eager to swallow the official story whole, and peevishly taking potshots at anyone who doesn’t nod along in total agreement.”
What a wonderful straw man you have there.
I am not following the administration’s lead. I am not a friend of this administration at all. What I am following is the evidence which disproves the bullshit you love so much. Evidence like the one I linked to.
Ryan, unlike you I don’t take what is given to me and simply run with it. I research the subject and educate myself on it. You hear that maybe there is a conspiracy afoot and listen to a few wild ideas then leave it at that. Leave it at the eternal “what if.” I went out and looked into the plausibility of all the stories we were told.
The reality is that despite the administration’s shady record, the official story holds up.
Can you poke any holes in the logic and science used to discredit these alternative theories to 9/11? How about any of them? I linked to some in my last post.
“[Your respect means nothing to me, Mario, because your own bullying and overbearing manner has rarely shown the slightest trace of respect to anybody on this board. The only thing mildly amusing about your peculiar spittle-flinging tirades is to see how little it takes to set your mind-bloggling bobblehead wobbling to and fro, wagging and nagging endlessly for days, and to watch you bang your tin drums like a wind-up monkey whenever you get wound up.]’
I would consider this an insult if it weren’t clear by this point that I am arguing with someone who barely made it out of high school.
“Mario, I’m not endorsing conspiracy theories, but I don’t think they’re the work of Satan setting out to undermine civil discourse in society. And, with that said, I don’t think people who are drawn to conspiracy theories set out to create mayhem.”
I never said you were out to create conspiracy theories or support them. In fact, I think you were being fairly reasonable.
“I also don’t think ANY question, now matter how far-fetched it may seem, is senseless. I think it’s narrow-minded and naive to think that curiosity and honest inquiries have limits or should have limits. Is it a senseless question to ask if God exists? Is it a senseless question to ask if there are multiple dimensions? Is it a senseless question to ask if time travel is actually possible?”
Questions without a burden of proof are useless and you romanticize them far too much.
When a scientists asks a question eh attaches a burden of proof to them, making sure that they are not pointless in their endeavors. Conspiracy theories are guilty of the “sinister assertion”, by which any question posed in just the right way can create doubts in the minds of those who don’t know any better.
We are not talking about limits, we are talking about responsibility. If you raise a question then you have the RESPONSIBILITY to see it through to the end. To research the subject matter you are talking about and come to a conclusion, whether negative/positive or simply unanswerable.
The questions you asked are hypothetical and in no way mirror those asked in most conspiracy theories.
“Yes, oftentimes a question without scientific backing seems stupid and pointless. But that’s also where ingenuity comes from, and creation, and alternative and abstract ways to think and problem solve.”
Your rhetoric is good, I will give you that.
No, problem solving is not what we are talking about here. When you are talking about matters that lie in the realm of hard science “creativity” is only useful in helping us solve that which is unsolved as of yet. This is not the case with conspiracy theories surrounding events which have been extensively chronicled and as such it is useless.
You have to take into account the questioning that is being done about 9/11. When you do it is clear to see that these people are questioning hard science and thus their ingenuity is not to be admired. In this context their “creativity” and ingenuity simply translates into empty remarks and “what ifs”. It is all about context, something which you seem to have forgotten.
“I’d say that while conspiracy theories are usually inaccurate, what they ARE able to do is get people thinking, get people questioning.”
When you question you must abide by logic. The only type of questioning that conspiracy theorists engage in is that which is free from the rules of logic and the burden of proof. It is easy to romanticize questioning as “the thinking mind at work”, but it is equally easy to ignore the fact that all scholars and philosophers abide by certain rules that help them avoid fallacies. Conspiracy theorists never do this and that is why their conspiracies are able to carry on unproven. They continue to parade around chanting “what if” because they ignore anything that is inconvenient for them.
Don’t romanticize people who question for the sake of it, the vast majority of them don’t know what they are doing or how to engage in the process.
“This is a fairly apathetic country when it comes to politics; we are spoon-fed a lot of bullshit and are expected to eat it up. So I don’t think conspiracy theories are the worst things in the world, in that respect. Are the theories always correct? No, they’re not. Do they usually seem implausible? Yeah, they do. But should they be banned for all eternity? No, absolutely not. I actually think they enable independent thought.”
That they enable independent thought is one of the biggest myths created out of a culture that generally looks at any authority figure with distrust. Of course, there is plenty to distrust about our current administration. However, the idea that conspiracy theories promote independent thinking fails in the presence of the many scholars who have strayed from the pack and achieved great success in doing so. The vast majority of these men never engaged in such nonsense, and in contrast the vast majority of those who engage in conspiracy theories rarely achieve anything.
Independent thinking is not irrational thinking. Conspiracy theories work because they appeal to that part of our mind which longs for the irrational and the fantastic.
“I’ve never, in my life, heard of a full-on conflict erupting over a conspiracy theory.”
Of course not. I am not saying it could cause problems. I am saying it can promote myths like the one you just tried to sell me.
“Since you broke down my post oh so beautifully, I’m assuming you read my breakdown of what Cotillard actually said in the interview. You’ll know that she, at no point, contested the events of 9/11, nor did she say that she believed the conspiracy theories surrounding the day.”
Did you read my previous post? I referred to explicitly. My apologies but I am not going to quote every single part of your post if it is not relevant to the subject of conspiracies. I left the gossip by the way side because that is not what I wanted to talk to you about.
“So she’s drawn to conspiracy theories. Who cares? I mean, do you REALLY care what she searches for on YouTube? Who is she hurting? Who is anybody hurting by watching a video on the internet?”
She isn’t drawn to conspiracy theories. She was just participating in a talk show discussion. Did you read what you claimed I missed?
“I’d say a world without questions — as implausible they may seem — would be a sad, sad world indeed. We are far from reaching our full scientific, technological, and even cognitive abilities and capabilities, and I’d like to think that we are not a country so closed off that we fight to prevent free thinkers (or lunatics, as you might label them) from exploring the unknown.”
Once again with the romanticism. I refer to my previous point regarding questions. They are not a bad thing when asked by educated people.
Ryan,
Your first post is irrelevant. How projects are conceived isn’t the issue.
Your second post is a pointless ad hominem argument.
By the way, Matt. Thanks for the predictable links.
Nope, I haven’t seen a copy of Popular Science since about the 8th grade. I hear it’s a great resource for tips on How to Make Synthetic Snot.
“The neat thing about rheopectic slime (besides the impossible-to-resist gag of fake-sneezing into your hands and then showing the flowing goo to your revolted victims)…”
But following your link to Popular Mechanics I was able to find an answer to a question that’s been troubling me for months:
How to Clean an LCD Screen
“We recommend using LCD cleanser that can be purchased at any electronics store.”
[…oh]
You want links about the Army Corps of Engineers and the decades-long devastation their misguided environmental meddling has wrought on the Mississippi Delta, Matt?
Warning: Army Corps of Engineers Project Ahead
“Why should Americans care? Because the billions of dollars Congress already has spent and the billions more they are poised to spend in the Lower Mississippi Basin, most visibly around New Orleans, will not only prove to be a colossal waste; the projects jeopardize the lives of thousands of people who live there.”
Dubious Days in the Delta
“U.S. taxpayers may spend millions of dollars on projects in the Mississippi Delta that destroy natural resources while benefiting few people.”
Warning: Army Corps of Engineers Project Ahead
“Losing Ground,” uncovers how one of the biggest civil engineering projects in U.S. history — the leveeing of the Mississippi River — has brought Louisiana and the nation to the brink of what could be the most costly environmental disaster in history.
oh, but yay! here’s some good news:
Army Corps of Engineers Restoring Iraqi Wetlands
To help the remaining marshland population and support other U.S. efforts to secure Iraq’s infrastructure, USAID turned to the Corps’ Hydrologic Engineering Center for its expertise in modeling water management in large watershed systems.
Do you know some engineers, Matt? Can you phone one up and ask about the feasibility of building a scaffolding system to help you crawl down out of my ass?
Matt, geez. Deep breath, ok?
I’m saying engineers can make mistakes. You seem to be saying they’re completely incapable of the slightest error or misjudgment.
You’re calling me psychotic because I wonder if some engineering projects are poorly conceived?
Which of us is carrying things to a ridiculous extreme?
Where do you imagine I said anything about what makes a building fall down? I’m not saying you’re psychotic, but are you hearing voices?
What, is your Mom an engineer or something? I’m sure she’s very sweet. Give her a hug from me and try to calm yourself.
Ryan,
You’re basicially saying that no engineer in this country knows how a building stands up. Or what could make it fall. Your argument is totally psychotic.
Xavi — I am with you there. I found nothing offensive when I watched the interview, and every English translation I’ve read supports that. The AFP even translated it and it was still harmless.
If people are going to eat up The Daily Mail article, by all means, let them. Sooner or later, though, they’re going to have to accept the fact that this French woman (yes, French, God forbid) never actually anything remotely offensive or disparaging. The whole thing seems to be quieting down now, thank God. I feel terribly for her.
I’m sorry Michelle, but I think we watch two different interviews, because the interview that I watched, she never offense the memorial of the dead people or the families. She’s only see she’s skeptic and she watched videos or that theories, but she never said: “i believe in them”. I watch with a friend the interview in french.
I don’t know how do you watch the interview, but for me, it’s not offensive or awful. But i don’t know that kind of correlation…
Matt, My point is that scientists and engineers and other “experts” fuck things up all the time and are far from infallible authorities. (Especially those in the employ of the federal government.)
Ryan, a woefully underfunded levee system designed 30 years ago with a capacity to withstand a category 3 hurricane gets hit by a category 5 hurricane and fails. Therefore: scientists and engineers don’t know anything about since or engineering.
Seriously? Come on.
I do agree with the quote with that quote however on being an informed citizen. Read this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1
get informed, stop looking ridiculous.
Thanks, k, for your reasonable and very elegantly expressed thoughts on the value of questioning official explanations that seem, to many of us, woefully inadequate and padded with vague and paternalistic reassurances. This line is especially fine: “…it’s narrow-minded and naive to think that curiosity and honest inquiries have limits or should have limits.”
I have no problem with people who want or need to accept easy answers in times of great trauma, but I bristle when anyone tries to tell us the very act of questioning is worthless unless we “have proof.”
jjj says,
“Taken out of context is an excuse? That’s the media’s entire job…”
exactly right, jjj. It’s a very common method of sliming others who oppose their own strident point of view, and it’s intended to ridicule and squelch dissent by media bores like Bill O’Reilly. We see the same tricks being played in the comments here, and in this very topic. Taking phrases out of context is a useful tool for tools like Mario Boretta.
Mario Bolotto says:
If you feel listening to the testimony of engineers, political scientists and various other people qualified in areas relating to the events of 9/11 makes one a lemming then you have truly lost it.
The same sort of expert engineers who designed the levees in New Orleans, Mario? Or their predecessors who thought it would be a great idea to tamper with the fragile ecosystem of wetlands and estuaries in the Mississippi Delta — for the convenience of oil tankers — and ultimately succeeded in permanently wrecking one of the country’s most important and historic port cities? Expert engineers like them?
Listen to the scientists, Mario? Should we listen to the same EPA scientists who assured the rescue workers at Ground Zero that the toxic air they were breathing had been thoroughly tested and was perfectly harmless?
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that this administration takes every opportunity to cloud the truth and has proven time after time their contemptible willingness to employ any devious means to cover up their own gross negligence.
No — literally — you don’t have to be a rocket scientist in the Bush administration. You just need to claim to be one, on your fabricated resume to become a NASA official, as George Deutsch did when he got his hot-shot Bush appointment on the basis of bogus claims that he graduated from Texas A&M.
The same George Deutsch who censored and re-wrote valid scientific studies to eliminate any mention of global warming for his boss in the White House — until one of those censored scientists, James Hansen, had the balls to risk his job by speaking up and exposing the lies.
“…Dr. Hansen said that the questions about Mr. Deutsch’s credentials were important, but were a distraction from the broader issue of political control of scientific information.
“He’s only a bit player,” Dr. Hansen said of Mr. Deutsch. ” The problem is much broader and much deeper and it goes across agencies. That’s what I’m really concerned about.”
“On climate, the public has been misinformed and not informed,” he said. “The foundation of a democracy is an informed public, which obviously means an honestly informed public. That’s the big issue here.”
So, Mario, I’m happy to join with k, and anyone else who’s not blindly willing to fall into lockstep with whatever bullshit du jour this administration is serving on a silver platter to someone like yourself, Mario — someone eager to swallow the official story whole, and peevishly taking potshots at anyone who doesn’t nod along in total agreement.
As another notorious “political science expert” said, “There’s an old saying in Tennessee. I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says: “Fool me once… shame on… shame on you… fool me… you can’t get fooled again.”
[Your respect means nothing to me, Mario, because your own bullying and overbearing manner has rarely shown the slightest trace of respect to anybody on this board. The only thing mildly amusing about your peculiar spittle-flinging tirades is to see how little it takes to set your mind-bloggling bobblehead wobbling to and fro, wagging and nagging endlessly for days, and to watch you bang your tin drums like a wind-up monkey whenever you get wound up.]
Michelle:
I have seen the original interview. The theory she spoke about did NOT reflect her own, personal beliefs. She was on a late night show which was dealing with conspiracy theories, and she had mentioned that she has watched a lot of conspiracy theory videos on 9/11. She was then specifically asked to discuss one thing she had seen that had disturbed her, and she began to explain the premise of that video (that the towers were “money suckers” and that they would cost more to destroy than to modernize). It was not her theory, she did not inject any personal feelings or thoughts into it, and she did not endorse it.
I know this likely does little to quell your feelings, but her words have been very, very misrepresented by the media.
I rarely ever post in the Comments section, but the ignorance and complete insensitivity of her comments has compelled me to respond to them. No matter how you look at it, her comments are totally offensive to the victims and the families of victims of 9/11. I have friends whose family members were victims of 9/11, and they would find these comments deeply hurtful and upsetting. I know that she is a celebrity, and so who cares what she thinks or says. But, these comments coming from any person (not just a French actress) are awful and offensive. And yeah, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it wasn’t necessary for her to say them in public. She should have kept them to herself out of respect for the victims and their families. She should definitely be criticized for her insensitivity and ignorance.
Mario, I’m not endorsing conspiracy theories, but I don’t think they’re the work of Satan setting out to undermine civil discourse in society. And, with that said, I don’t think people who are drawn to conspiracy theories set out to create mayhem.
I also don’t think ANY question, now matter how far-fetched it may seem, is senseless. I think it’s narrow-minded and naive to think that curiosity and honest inquiries have limits or should have limits. Is it a senseless question to ask if God exists? Is it a senseless question to ask if there are multiple dimensions? Is it a senseless question to ask if time travel is actually possible?
Yes, oftentimes a question without scientific backing seems stupid and pointless. But that’s also where ingenuity comes from, and creation, and alternative and abstract ways to think and problem solve.
I’d say that while conspiracy theories are usually inaccurate, what they ARE able to do is get people thinking, get people questioning. This is a fairly apathetic country when it comes to politics; we are spoon-fed a lot of bullshit and are expected to eat it up. So I don’t think conspiracy theories are the worst things in the world, in that respect. Are the theories always correct? No, they’re not. Do they usually seem implausible? Yeah, they do. But should they be banned for all eternity? No, absolutely not. I actually think they enable independent thought. I’ve never, in my life, heard of a full-on conflict erupting over a conspiracy theory.
Since you broke down my post oh so beautifully, I’m assuming you read my breakdown of what Cotillard actually said in the interview. You’ll know that she, at no point, contested the events of 9/11, nor did she say that she believed the conspiracy theories surrounding the day. So she’s drawn to conspiracy theories. Who cares? I mean, do you REALLY care what she searches for on YouTube? Who is she hurting? Who is anybody hurting by watching a video on the internet?
I’d say a world without questions — as implausible they may seem — would be a sad, sad world indeed. We are far from reaching our full scientific, technological, and even cognitive abilities and capabilities, and I’d like to think that we are not a country so closed off that we fight to prevent free thinkers (or lunatics, as you might label them) from exploring the unknown.
K says,
“And it’s not as though the US government is totally faultless here. I don’t think they planned 9/11, but they certainly mishandled it preceding the attacks, during the attacks, and after the attacks. There is a LOT to question there.”
This is very true. Unfortunately, this type of fact often leads to senseless questioning . Senseless questioning without a burden of proof is what conspiracy theorists thrive on.
“Why did W ignore that report which specifically said that Osama bin Laden had plans to hijack commercial airplanes and crash them into the WTC? Why did he cut counter-terrorism funding? Why did he spend more time on vacation than in Washington prior to the attacks? Why didn’t he leave that Florida classroom the SECOND he was informed of the first tower being hit? Why has there not been a bigger focus, six years later, on finding bin Laden? On providing necessary resources to fully investigate the attacks? On providing care to rescue workers?”
These are all examples of how inept our administration is. However, they have nothing to with a conspiracy. Not that you have claimed they do in any way.
“And, let’s not forget, W also fabricated intelligence reports that said Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 and planned to attack us again with Weapons of Mass Destruction. You want to talk about exploiting and denigrating the victims, you’ve got it right there, by our government. Etc…”
All fine examples of mismanagement and corruption in our administration. But…
“This administration’s whole thing is lying to, manipulating, and misleading the American people. So feel free to take everything the government and the media tells you at face value, but I think it hurts us more not to question.”
On the contrary, it hurts us much more to question without merit than it would to accept reality. Every time we question without merit we lose credibility. I understand what you are trying to say, but the ineptitude of our administration does not lend merit to the inane questioning that often takes place regarding the reality of 9/11.
Hard science stands behind the events of that day and many conspiracy theorists abuse our freedom to question by never providing any concrete answers.
“Mario, as meister of the ill-conceived remark, I’d think you might feel some affinity and tolerance for someone gutsy enough to speak their mind with little concern for what anyone else thinks.”
How ironic do you think it is to speak of how ill-conceived my remarks can be and then spew forth the following:
‘“I like her more,” every time I see Marion Cotillard. I don’t know for sure what she said, but I know I’d like to hear more.’
“While a French movie star may not know what really happened on 9/11, neither do any of the rest of us. But at least Marion is still curious, looking for better answers, and asking, “vraimont?… vraimont?”
This is the type of comment that drains my respect for you. Since when do none of us know what happened on 9/11? Since when have the events of 9/11 not passed the tests of many doubters with flying colors?
We do know what happened on 9/11. Creating a conspiracy where none exists is ridiculous.
I encourage you to educate yourself by reading the countless amount of information that disproves much of the conspiracy theories floating around. Go ahead and read the accounts and testimonies of civil engineers, physics professors and political scientists that have conducted investigations into the events surrounding 9/11.
Questioning without seeking an educated opinion is pointless. Any fool can raise a question, as you have proven.
Have some light reading materials on the subject of debunking the many 9/11 conspiracies: http://w15.easy-share.com/1699767252.html
“Questioning the scenario that’s been force-fed to the world demonstrates a more active mind than most American citizens seem to possess. I’d rather listen to a free spirit who’s willing to think the unthinkable than to lemming-like media toadies whose job is to convince us to accept the unacceptable.”
The scenario that has been “force fed” to the world has been put to the test by experts from widely varied fields and it has come through. Ignorant people like you entertain ideas for the sake of discussion yet never bother to back up your claims.
Well, here is your chance. Email me if you have anything that lends credence to this “questioning” and proves any conspiracy theories correct.
Taking a contrary stance to that of most experts for the sake of going against the grain is admirable ONLY if you have proof that indicates otherwise.
If you feel listening to the testimony of engineers, political scientists and various other people qualified in areas relating to the events of 9/11 makes one a lemming then you have truly lost it.
“The fact that Marion Cotillard is unwilling to swallow whatever fragile cover story the government wants us to believe, is something I admire more than your braying, Mario, and I’m impresses that she’s delivered a splash of cold water to the numbed-out Prozac mentality of a slow news day.”
Where is the proof? Questioning without any investigative efforts to back up your claims is empty rhetoric that only a fool would admire.
Films like Loose Change have proven time and time again that these theories have nothing to stand on. I find it ironic that you would accuse those educated enough to know better of being lemmings yet you admire such empty rhetoric and “what ifs.”
“Sadly typical that “reporters” and “news” organizations are more obsessed with what a French movie star has to say than trying to discover a grain of truth on their own.”
I am sure that her being French plays a huge part in the amount of coverage this is getting. However, her comments have been proven to be taken out of context.
What is truly scary is that you seem to think there is something to them. Seriously, questioning without the use of logic does not shot a higher intellect. Learn that and you won’t embarrass yourself in the future.
How hypocritical is it to accuse someone of lacking respect for a “tragedy” and yet support conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality (which is its own form of disrespect)? Moral grandstanding while supporting something that no educated man would ever seriously consider is part of the reason why I cannot bring myself to regret any comments I have made towards you.
And for god’s sake get my name right. Use all that free room you have now that you have sent logic out the window and put it to the service of proper spelling.
MARION SAID:
On February 16, 2007, I appeared on a late night French television program,’Paris Dernière.’ In the last 48 hours, my statements on that program have been taken completely out of context and been crafted into a story that has no merit. The conversation on the talk show included a dialogue about conspiracy theories. At no point did I intend to contest the horrific attacks of September 11, 2001, one of the most tragic days in all of history. Nonetheless, I sincerely regret if my comments offended or hurt anyone
jejeje I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ITS ALOUD TO THINK WHAT THEY WANT. SHE IS A GREAT ACTRESS AND A VERY NICE AND BEAUTIFUL PERSON, LEAVE HER ALONE. WE SHE HAS TO APOLOGIZE FOR HAVE THEIR OWN THOUGHTS. STOP TO BE SO FIRM AND LET OTHERS BE.
SHE KILLED JFK, HAPPY?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FTs1jGzCvPw
I SUPPORT HER! she can think what she wants!
Thank you, K.
I should clarify — he didn’t start renditions, but he fully supports them and uses that power more than anyone should. It shouldn’t be done at all, really.
I have to wonder if this is such a big issue because she is French. Or if it’s because she’s a woman. Or, better yet, a French woman. The Daily News is a tabloid magazine with a poor reputation (the British equivalent of Star or The National Enquirer), and they sensationalized a nonstory to sell papers and get attention. Dragging up comments made over a year ago. A week after she wins the Oscar. Cotillard’s words, harmless and curious in their original context, were twisted maliciously to eat into people’s patriotism. She never said that the “9/11 attacks were made up.” I’d like to say that I can’t believe people bought into their bogus, bullshit story, but it’s not a surprise considering the colorful conjectures and unfair speculation done by Peter Allen. People jumped. Here are some facts:
1. Paris Premiere, the show in question, is a weird program to begin with. That night they were focused on conspiracy theories — like the ones surrounding comedian Coluche’s death. (For Americans: think of the conspiracy theories surrounding comedian Bill Hicks’ death, and you’ll get the gist of it.)
2. Cotillard says that while she tends to side with conspiracy theories, she mainly only finds them “fascinating” and “addictive.”
3. She never endorsed the 9/11 conspiracy theory. She was asked specifically about a 9/11 theory that “disturbed” her, and she started talking about the one that talked about the towers being “money suckers.” Those thoughts did not reflect her own beliefs at all.
So she doesn’t believe everything the government tells her. Neither do I. I think it’s important to demand honest, straightforward answers about matters and issues that are important to you.
And it’s not as though the US government is totally faultless here. I don’t think they planned 9/11, but they certainly mishandled it preceding the attacks, during the attacks, and after the attacks. There is a LOT to question there. Why did W ignore that report which specifically said that Osama bin Laden had plans to hijack commercial airplanes and crash them into the WTC? Why did he cut counter-terrorism funding? Why did he spend more time on vacation than in Washington prior to the attacks? Why didn’t he leave that Florida classroom the SECOND he was informed of the first tower being hit? Why has there not been a bigger focus, six years later, on finding bin Laden? On providing necessary resources to fully investigate the attacks? On providing care to rescue workers?
And, let’s not forget, W also fabricated intelligence reports that said Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 and planned to attack us again with Weapons of Mass Destruction. You want to talk about exploiting and denigrating the victims, you’ve got it right there, by our government. He exploited our grief, our fear, and our newfound unity to lead us into an unnecessary war. He made Iraq — which was on his agenda when running for election in 2000 — the priority over bin Laden and over investigating the attacks. He started illegally listening in on Americans’ phone calls, he started renditions, and he started the Terror Alert. All to frighten and scare us into submission.
This administration’s whole thing is lying to, manipulating, and misleading the American people. So feel free to take everything the government and the media tells you at face value, but I think it hurts us more not to question.
First of all, I keep hearing that this was taken out of context, but then everywhere I read the quotes, they’re taken even MORE out of context, and it’s getting ridiculous.
Secondly: Laura Linney. Lovely in the press, even moreso on camera. I kept trying to get you guys to go with her for Best Actress, but would you listen? I could have saved everybody so much trouble!
The Fascists Zionist jews is for the speech to the Oscars for Vanessa Redgrave, I remember. She receives the Oscar and she said: “Be carerful to the fascist Zionists jews”.
Antartica, you right in all senses. Because she’s french she receives critics, That’s unfair. Well unless, she apologizes and she’s a good actress and doesn’t matter in Hollywood or Europe
Frederic: It’s a answer of that Julia’s article for The New York Post… I love when critics said that stars ruin their carees… And for 95% are wrong.
P.D.: Well Fox News… What do you expect?
SHE IS COMMUNIST FOR THE FBI! mares eat oats and does eat oaks and little lambs eat ivy! a kid will eat ivy too, would’nt YOU?
What an idiot this woman is. So the 9/11 terrorist strike was really a huge, murderous insurance scam by the US government? Oh brother.
Is she going to hop on the “UK government killed Diana” and “Zionist jews control the world” conspiracies next? As for the “we never went to moon!”, she is not alone in believing this. Here are some of her fellow true believers:
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm
Still, it’ll all blow over. She’s a good actress and will always find work. A gullible, deluded fool, but a good actress.
so much ado about not much.
I am disappointed in her comments, but she has clarified her statements and apologized. If you boycott her movies, you have to boycott anything Charlie Sheen, Sean Penn, or Maggie Gyllenhaal does (no “Dark Knight” for you), because they basically stated the same thing.
Their comments didn’t receive anywhere near the publicity Marion’s did. There is now talk of 9/11 groups picketing “Public Enemies” if she comes to Chicago to film it. I hope she doesn’t get canned by the producers for her comments. I wonder if this is the case because she is French and not American like Sheen, Penn, and Gyllenhaal are. Anderson Cooper certainly didn’t get bent out of shape over their comments, nor did most people (except for places like FOX News).
Now that Marion has apologized, this should be a non-issue.
Actors are just like anyone else they are allowed and expected to have opinions some liberal, some conservative. I don’t think her comments were insensitive to the lives that perished on 9/11. 10’s if not 100’s of thousands of Americans question what really happened on 9/11. Conspiracies are fun to talk about but I guess when you’re a young actress saying these comments you don’t think that will come back to haunt you.
Hey Frereric Lyon, there was an INVESTIGATION and trials for the crimes committed duing the Holocaust. 9/11 not so much. Because it’s not in the financial and political best interest of those in power. It DENIGRATES the memory of everyone who died that day to so baldly commit no investigation to that heinous crime. In spain, there was an investigation, trials, and the guilty went to prison. In America, we got a police state and exponentially increased Presidential power to torture, lie, walk all over the constitution and spy on us.
GO RYAN! You said it exactly right!!!
GUYS, WE SEE HER MOVIES, WE DONT TALK TO HER PERSONALLY, SHE IS A GREAT ACTRESS, THATS WHAT MATTERS, I DONT CARE HER PERSONAL LIFE AND THOUGHS. LEAVE HER ALONE.
this is nonsense. typical b-grade media efforts to sell more papers by exaggerating comments of someone who recently got very very famous.
i am totally, with ryan, dorothy, plume, serena and sasha
I could care less what she thinks. I like her as an actress and that’s it. Didn’t Johnny Depp get a lot of heat for something he said which was taken completely out of context a few years ago? I didn’t care at all on that occasion either. What an artist thinks or does in their private life has no bearing on their art, unless they insist on making it part and parcel with their public image. Clearly not the case.
That’s posting is about she is destroy her career… I don’t think so. But yes frederic you has all the reason…
“Sadly typical that “reporters” and “news” organizations are more obsessed with what a French movie star has to say than trying to discover a grain of truth on their own.”
The best opinion here.
Please don’t call her stupid. At least she has an opinion unlike other actresses there who only think of what party to attend to next or what gown to wear.
Nobody should be scorned because they think otherwise, no matter how stupid it is. What happened to America the land of free speech?
Xavi, what you are saying does not make any sense. Cinema is international and global business, it does not make sense to talk about a cinema here and a cinema there. That would become a loose/loose situation, when we all want a win/win situation.
So Marion should be as secretive with her own political opinions, as she is with her personnal life, and she will be happier than she is now.
Now, her rep has apologize in her name : she never intended to offend or hurt anybody, nor comment or question in any way the horrible attack of 11/09/01.
Is that clear enough for you ?
Now she goes back to her own business, and everybody, including you, should do the same.
Julia I don’t think she destroy her career. I remember when The New York Post said that Jane Fonda never will be an artist because for her past (Hanoi jane)… we know the answer. If you don’t want to see her movies with a few of crazy idiotics for a stupid issues, well there’s a world who like her even love her. I like her and doesn’t mean i’m agree with her comments. She a talented actress with a lapsus brutus or bad faith. In hollywood worse actors said worse things…
Well, she’s european and maybe she doesn’t need Hollywood. So what?. The best actors now working outside Hollywood, or you tell me about the past ten winners:
*Curse: Hunt, Paltrow, swank, berry and witherspoon. they’re suffering scandals, awful movies and decisions to their carees. most of them are semifinalists to the Razzie Awards after won the Oscar
*Limbo: Roberts, Kidman and Theron. They’re in stand by. Sucess yes but critical darlings… I don’t think so
Cotillard, it’s right, don’t go to Hollywood because for her career. Better roles in better films are outside Hollywood, especially in Europe. Binoche, Bardem, Kaminska, Huppert, Deneuve, Blanchett, Garcia… they’re not need Hollywood. Hollywood loses not you
It is a matter of fact that Marion should keep her personnal opinions for herself and for her friends, many people in France are amazed by all these conspiracy bullshits. Unfortunately this gave way to somme stupid peoples on both side of the Atlantic ocean.
Let us hope she will learn from that bad experience.
Go back to your own business, Marion, and please perform because we all now know you can do well and because this is what we are all expecting from you.
I really don’t understand the polemic. It’s silly.
Ryan,
I suppose you would admire a person who was willing to deny the Holocaust as well.
The ability to say something stupid, even when every expert and every piece of evidence disagrees with you is not an admirable trait.
I’m with Luca, Dorothy, Ryan and those who don’t jump to conclusions.
It’s all about context, dear ones.
The story is news, oddly enough, so posting it seems entirely reasonable to me.
yawn
umm, …”scenario that’s been force fed to the world”? “Convince us to accept the unnacceptable”? “Fragile cover story the government wants us to believe”? You don’t seriously believe this stuff, do you Ryan? The idea that there could be a conspiracy so all-encompassing that no one has been able to expose it seems more than a little ridiculous to me….
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1
“Sadly typical that “reporters” and “news” organizations are more obsessed with what a French movie star has to say than trying to discover a grain of truth on their own.”
Ah, bravo Ryan — that is the most logical thing I’ve read about this entire debacle. Lamentably, I’ve been reminded that the pitchfork-wielding segment of society is alive and well. And, is it me, or does this demonstrate that the world is ripe for a re-staging of “The Crucible”? OK, maybe a re-airing then.
And Lucio, the videos are quite funny.
Mario Bortoto says:
She should be laughed at rather than burned at the stake.
“wow I like her more.” K-a
“You and me both.” – Ryan Adams
I truly hope I am reading this wrong. Anyone who thinks these theories are worthy of respect is an uneducated tool.
Mario, as meister of the ill-conceived remark, I’d think you might feel some affinity and tolerance for someone gutsy enough to speak their mind with little concern for what anyone else thinks.
“I like her more,” every time I see Marion Cotillard. I don’t know for sure what she said, but I know I’d like to hear more.
bebe has cut straight to heart of this issue: While a French movie star may not know what really happened on 9/11, neither do any of the rest of us. But at least Marion is still curious, looking for better answers, and asking, “vraimont?… vraimont?
Questioning the scenario that’s been force-fed to the world demonstrates a more active mind than most American citizens seem to possess. I’d rather listen to a free spirit who’s willing to think the unthinkable than to lemming-like media toadies whose job is to convince us to accept the unacceptable.
The fact that Marion Cotillard is unwilling to swallow whatever fragile cover story the government wants us to believe, is something I admire more than your braying, Mario, and I’m impresses that she’s delivered a splash of cold water to the numbed-out Prozac mentality of a slow news day.
Sadly typical that “reporters” and “news” organizations are more obsessed with what a French movie star has to say than trying to discover a grain of truth on their own.
To be totally and completely superficial for a moment… what’s that on her forehead?
nevermind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu1FJ_4y_3Q
MARION ROCKS!
The 9/11 theories won’t go away, eventually it will be the other side who is seen as ‘idiotic’ — eventually people will discover that Bush has lied about more than just WMD, which is just the tip of the iceberg. If you can’t keep an open mind about these sorts of things, you just don’t understand human nature or politics. Do you think suddenly those in positions of power have your best interests at heart? The entirity of human history would say otherwise. People never learn from history and this Coutillard lynching proves that we are just as bad as we were 100 years ago… but that is speaking too generally, there is still hope for every individual to think critically.
“The “man on the moon comment” was not attack on the Bush Adminstration – it happened in 1969. No one not even her lawyer can spin this comment. If she does not hold contempt for Bush circa America but clearly the country in general or why else does she not mention other countries?. Why not the throw in the “royals killed Princess Di theory” it happened right there in Paris?”
Julia, the *first* thing she mentioned was Coluche, a French comedian whose death is surrounded by conspiracy theories. The interviewer then asks specifically about 9/11.
It sucks how this discussion always degenerates to this point, no matter the forum, particularly when people just want to jump to conclusions. Sigh.
this site is bcoming the new PEREZ HILTON, cheers for that… sad
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FTs1jGzCvPw
The “man on the moon comment” was not attack on the Bush Adminstration – it happened in 1969. No one not even her lawyer can spin this comment. If she does not hold contempt for Bush circa America but clearly the country in general or why else does she not mention other countries?. Why not the throw in the “royals killed Princess Di theory” it happened right there in Paris?
New York Magazine said it best
:Seemingly on her way to stardom after winning the Best Actress Oscar a week ago, Marion Cotillard has stumbled upon what just may be the most surefire way imaginable to instantly erase all American goodwill and devastate her box-office potential:
Step 1: Posit that 9/11 was a conspiracy designed to renovate the Twin Towers without having to pay for costly rewiring.
Step 2: After denigrating America’s greatest tragedy, question the validity of America’s greatest accomplishment: landing a man on the moon.
Step 3: Be French.
Step 4: When confronted with your conspiracy theories, claim they were taken out of context, but don’t disown them.
Step 5: In fact, remind America that it’s not the only one that makes movies and that you can simply film in other places.
Done. That’s all it takes to complete the Marion Cotillard “Five-Step Plan for Destroying a Burgeoning Acting Career.” It’s that easy, friends. —Dan Amira
Why did I post it? Because it’s all over the news, front page of Yahoo, etc. It is worth bringing up for discussion though I did hesitate for a few days. Suddenly it has become quite a big story and to not address it seemed strange to me. But whoever wrote:
“Then why the hell are you posting this? just to create controversy, controversy attracks people to your site, more people means more money. Dont be a sellout.”
Uh, sorry. No money to be made. Posting this makes me a sellout? Are you kidding me? I wanted to make the point that what she believes is her own business. It’s worth it to me to hear what you all think about it. Nothing more, nothing less. Sell out, I wish!
David, My friend and me have the same conclusion, we know french, and this was an innocent and relaxing interview.
THANKS TO HER AMERICAN OSCAR SHE WILL BE MAKING MORE MONEY THAN EVER!!! DON’T BELIEVE ME CHECK THIS OUT
http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2261454,00.html
SO FREEDOM OF SPEECH YES WE AMERICAN ARE FOR IT. THIS IS NOT RUSSIA WERE YOU ARE FOUND DEAD, POISONED ETC .BUT THAT FLOWS BOTH WAY – FREEDOM TO BOYCOTT, FREEDOM TO REFUTE HER “OPINION”, BOYCOTT HER MOVIES. FREEDOM TO CHOOSE WHAT WE SPEND OUT MONEY ON.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH SHE IS ABSOLUTELY ENTITLED TO…AND SO AM I AND OTHERS WHO CHOSE NOT SUPPORT HER.
I disagree that this is backlash. When you win an Oscar your profile is raised considerably and the press goes over you with a fine tooth comb. The media highlighting her statements has nothing to do with a backlash and everything to do with her name being able to sell more copies after such a high profile win.
She’s a good actress. The fact her comments are in support of a conspiracy theory is a shame as it shows a distinct lack of intellect. She should be laughed at rather than burned at the stake.
“You and me both.” – Ryan Adams
I truly hope I am reading this wrong. Anyone who thinks these theories are worthy of respect is an uneducated tool.
Her comments were distorted by that British rag I Listened to the video, I speak french the newspaper put words in her mouth.
Remember when Michael Moore got booed at the Oscars? That was a good one.
As one of few Americans who knew of and loved her work before La Vie en Rose, I find this new controversy utterly ridiculous. This is nothing but backlash against her extremely well-deserved success. I realize that all celebrities eventually catch grief for something, but I find this particularly absurd. It’s sad that some people genuinely cannot be happy for someone else’s accomplishment without wanting to tear them down (I can just see the “journalist” who started this story: “Let me find some old interview, take it out of context, and put a sensationalistic spin on it!”). Marion has been nothing but beautifully humble and gracious throughout the entire awards season, so it’s crazy that some now want to misrepresent this and believe she secretly harbors anti-American sentiments. The vicious attacks now being mounted against her are outrageous. What a joke.
She’s entitled to say whatever she thinks. That’s what free speech is. That said, anyone who believes that 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy is an imbecile.
K-a says,
“wow I like her more”
cheers, K-a.
You and me both.
Eh…I still love her.
It’s a scandal now and I know it, but if she has the kindness and excelent public relationship, the issue will be forgotten or assimilated. It’s only a mistake, bad declarations and/or unfair traslation from a year ago whatever you want. I heard around these comments are stupid, well taken like this “Stupid comments”. But If we start haunting witches, well, this’s not finished.
About you say Tom Cruise, he’s an special case: Since the premiere of Batman and War of the Worlds he’s nutts and still for almost two months. He’s a full time case of disaster.
Maybe you’re right around the 3-4 weeks earlier… but we have the vanessa Redgrave issue, don’t you think? And I admire your possition Sam, it’s just not admire her political possition and this is very mature and grow.
I wouldn’t join in with those who want to tar and feather her either, but I do say I wouldn’t go to her for perceptive views on American politics. Her forte is acting, not government.
well, the timing on this…
3 – 4 weeks earlier and her oscar was toast, regardless how better she was when compared to the other nominees.
I wonder why talented people feel the need to express their thoughts on politics to journalists
her reasoning just doesnt make any sense even for someone so anti-America as I am (sorry guys) (actually, im just anti-Republican America)
lets hope this settles and she avoids such nonsense in the future. but then again, you look at Tom Cruise….
Seriously . . . I could care less about “sour grapes” and “trying to keep an up-and-coming French actress down,” but her statement reeks of stupidity. 9/11’s wounds are still very fresh for many of us (although, apparently, not many on here, unfortunately), and her complete lack of sensitivity to that is utterly appalling.
I can’t believe how people are taking this. She won the Oscar… she deserved it, too. It wasn’t like this year was an easy pick for Best Actress. It wasn’t as obvious as Daniel Day-Lewis for Best Actor or Javier Bardem for Supporting Actor. This was a category filled with actresses who all deserved to win an Oscar in a different way. And it was tough, because they were all incredibly different performances.
I was happy with Cotillard taking it. I would have been equally happy with Julie Christie or Ellen Page. But the fact remains Cotillard took it, and she deserved it, so instead of trying to dig up year-old dirt on this woman, get over it!
I don’t see how her comment is at all Anti-American, it’s just a conspiracy theory (albeit somewhat… not entirely, but somewhat preposterous). And I honestly doubt this woman, despite being French, is Anti-American. Has Sean Penn sparked this much outrage? He’s said some very controversial crap… some of which can be taken as insulting. But very few people say anything about it because he’s one of the most brilliant actors of our time.
I think it’s ridiculous that we’re trying to keep an up-and-coming French actress down over something that’s being taken out of context and blown out of proportion. If anything (IF being the key word), what she said was more of a criticism on the Bush Administration, which we all know is NOT considered Anti-American.
Grow up, America. Seriously.
I’m French I live in France and i just want to makes things clear. I don’t want to help Marion Cotillard or anything else juste to say to take thise statement in it’s context. It was an interview during a comedy show and those questions are called silly questions and the guest is supposed to give silly answers to this, that’s what she did. That’s all.
I’m just amazed and ashamed to see people and journalists trying everything to destroy her career at any cost.
Once upon a time, it was heresy to decry the Iraq invasion.
The day will come when the public knows the truth about 9/11. It will be terrible. And wonderful. The Bush administration will have a nation to answer. Watch.
I think people are very sensitive and angered by remarks such as hers because they don’t want to believe deep down there may be some merit in them. The attacks against these ideas are rude and vile… deep down I think people know it’s possible their government has lied to them well beyond weapons of mass destruction– that is one lie they were caught with. I would be angry too if a sheet was raised to expose the amounts of lies which no doubt haven’t slipped through the cracks of awareness. I personally have no opinion on the 9/11 attacks but history will magnify these questions and not throw them aside, after emotions are settled, they will remain… and once we’re all gone, some events which may have been common facts will have a new slant by the next generations… maybe the world isn’t flat. History repeats itself. Humans never change.
IN HER DEFENCE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FTs1jGzCvPw
JUST FOR FUN!
SHE CAN THINK WHATEVER SHE WANTS. AS WE ALL DO! LEAVE HER ALONE
wow I like her more
ok… who cares… plus, shes gorgeous, her carrer is only going up, plus shes gonna be in Public Enemies, Michel Mann+Johnny Depp+Christian Bale+Marion = YOU CANT STOP WHATS COMING… hahaa
Ms. Cotillard’s performance in La Vie en Rose was tremendous and brilliant. Her comments about 9/11 were tremendously stupid. We should not care what a French actress does or does not believe about politics or 9/11. However, if she speaks publicly and ignorantly about them, she deserves every ounce of criticism she gets. So, to Miss Cotillard: Awesome performance, dullard!
Well Zach, in some cases is right (Sean penn, maggie Gyllenhaal), but in others not (Johnny Depp, Vanessa Redgrave, Susan Sarandon). Again, 9/11 is a tragedy, but I think this is out of context. I’m not agree of her comments but I’m not disagree with her. These are comments of a global situation, but the context is wrong. I’m defending her about this is unfair and it’s out of context. I heard from some americans who said: Go away, foreigners. Why the xenohpobia now?.
The Marion’s case is important now only because she’s the new Oscar winner and the second actress who won for foreign language film after Sophia Loren. She’s french and she has differents points of view, like a mexican, argentinian, australian, polish, russian, chinese…
But it’s right to say, my opinion of her like an actress won’t change, and I hope she became a big star doesn’t matter is in Hollywood or en Europe
I disagree that an American actor wouldn’t have gotten the same (or at least similar) flak for these statements – just look at Sean Penn. But whatever, as Mark wrote, she should just be grateful that this didn’t come out before the Oscars.
But my opinion of her as an actress won’t change.
And to those criticizing Sasha, she doesn’t have to personally care about something to find it worthy of being posted on this site. Yes, it’s like gossip, but things like this affect people’s chances of being nominated again in the future, so it is a relevant story (again, see Sean Penn?).
That being said, can Awards Daily go back to its old format? I can’t stand this one.
You really shouldn’t be feeding this beast, Sasha. It wasn’t the smartest thing to say, but this was from over a year ago. The only reason it’s getting play now is because she won an Oscar. Dump this entry, PLEASE! It will only feed the trolls.
I highly doubt she intended to belittle anyone who died in the conflagration. Was it foolish, yes, but it’s way less offensive than anything that belches out of the mouths of talk radio fiends. More importantly, IT WAS OVER A FRACKING YEAR AGO! By the way, what is worse: a silly statement like this or Rudy Guliani basing his entire presidential campaign on frightening people with casualties on a partisan basis and an imaginary track record as “America’s Mayor”? Why wasn’t the media (except for Olbermann) going
after him?
See what you provoked, Sasha!
Nothing is wrong with this statement, she’s looks gorgeous.
Is it a movie site ?
Please Sasha you’re better than this. Plenty of people in Europe think the same. I heard many people say the exact same thing. I guess Americans are very pissed off that a Foreigner won the Oscar.
TO SASHA:
“I could care less, honestly”.
Then why the hell are you posting this? just to create controversy, controversy attracks people to your site, more people means more money. Dont be a sellout. Posting old news like this is going to be bad for this site, i as a follower of this site would hate to see this become some tabloid crap like THE SUN the Enquire…
Besides that, its just a comment, its sad to see people actually arguing about something so pointless as a simple opinion.
What is it with French actresses ruining their mystique anyway?
First I find out that Brigette Bardot is a xenophobic racist bag lady, and now this…
If only these silly comments had happened during Oscar voting season. Maybe Julie Christie would have the Oscar she deserves.
I agree with her. I’m sure the American government lies to us in some capacity… and that it will be exposed someday… but she was just unfortunate enough to get caught. I mean, look at the stuff that the American government has lied about in the past… Watergate, Abu Ghraib, Monica…
It really does reflect how ridiculous the media can sometimes be. I mean, I don’t care if Cate has another baby, or Britney runs over another foot, or Marion insults a government. I care about the actual art that they make.
(And I’m not implying that Britney actually makes “art”…)
The point is, Marion is a fabulous actress who gave an incredible performance and was justly rewarded. That’s all I care about.
I’m NY born and raised and that comment made me lose so much respect for her. NY looked at 9/11 and saw brothers and sisters fall victim. Hollywood saw 9/11 and saw potential box office and a great moving story to be told on a silver screen. Pathetic.
I also can’t believe people are defending this crap. Are people really such suckers for a pretty face and a continental accent, that they’ll try and downplay the sheer bloody minded offensiveness and idiocy of her statements. I guess they are.
People online have checked and double-checked her original statements and translations thereof. She wasn’t taken out of context. She pretty much said the Americans destroyed the twin towers themselves, because they wanted it rebuilt and flying planes into it and killing a couple of thousand American and foreign nationals was cheaper than just renovating the towers.WTF!
Imagine if she came out with some cute little “theory” about how the Jews and the Holocaust. About how it’s all a big Jewish conspiracy to exaggerate the numbers of Jews who died in the holocaust. Because there are many people who suscribe to that dumbasss “theory” as well. They are also morons (and bigots, whether they realise or not). Anti-Americanism is so deep-rooted in France, that it’s not surprising that she thinks like this. But that doesn’t make it right. And anti-Americanism seems to be one of the last accepted forms of prejudice and bigotry (and I’m saying this as a British citizen btw, not as some outraged yank).
She’s a fine actress, and I was happy when she won the oscar. But she deserves every bit of scorn and ridicule she gets for this nonsense.
I don’t think it was because the WTC was outdated, but I am TOTALLY, entirely and without question convinced that we as a people were lied to by our government about what really happened on 9/11. All you need to do is ask yourself this: In the greatest mass homicide this country has ever seen, why was there no real investigation? No trial? No convicteds? Why was Karl Rove calling the monkey court 9/11 Commission daily? What’s less patriotic, questioning the official account of things, or quelling an investigation into a catastrophically tragic mass murder to save one’s own financial/political interests?
(edit: forget it, it’s not worth it)
Who gives a damn? All actors are slightly abnormal or idiosynchratic in some way.
She sounds like an idiot. I cannot believe anyone would defend this. It’s not her opinion; it is a complete misstatement of facts about which she has zero particularized knowledge. When someone with any degree of public notariety makes asinine, worthless statements, media should hold him or her up for ridicule. Ms. Cotillard deserves it.
If anyone feels offense about my description of mass colective, I’m so sorry (it’s not my intention, I have American friends and part of my realtives live in the U.S.), but give me the reason for only one thing: Colective mind maybe the worse thing for manipulation, especially in divisive situations.
I’m sick of the tabloids and the lies or bad traslations: Gwyneth Paltrow (She’s in troubles because she said London is the worse place to live), Will Smith (Hitler was a good man), salma Hayek (In Mexico we eat dog food), Heath Ledger (We know about him, but the worst thing was Michelle Williams is dating with Ryan Gosling a week after heath’s death. That’s disgusting), Johnny Depp (The infamous german interview) and now marion (For a bad traslation of a interview from 2007 (Why now? why the bad traslation? Who’s the stupid pseudo-journalist? and finally Who next?)
I watched the interview very well and I’m sure this is a bad interpretation of a bad pseudo-journalist. Only because she’s french and she explains her intest for a number of theories and she never believes all? That’s stupid and retrograd.
if she was an american actress like Hilary swank or angelina Jolie, the american society (Not all) think: “Oh a new prima donna or she has an intersting opinion” but because she’s the new Academy award Winner and French actress a lot of people say: “French bitch, frog, Go to France”.
I’m sorry but this is unfair, if America is the land of free speech and tolerance (Where is now?) she never attacks the victims or the real facts, only sin is she’s curious and sceptic. I’m mexican and that situation is result of a blind patriotism and stupid colective mind for an divisive situation. 9/11 is global event (It’s horrible I know it) but everyone has an opinion.
Ernest Borgnire said: Revoke her oscar and make an statement. Well if teh Academy will do it I propose a List:
*Ernest borgnire: Because is the most homophobic, xenophobic and stupid dinosaure in Hollywood.
*Vanessa Redgrave: Her speech about the fascist sionists who found Israel (She said that)
*Julie Christie: Her Guantamo Bay opinion
*Sean Penn: Homophobic in the past and his visit to venezuela with Hugo Chavez
*Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon: Politic adversaries to the Bush administration and the liberal position to the abortion
*ben Affleck: His possition about Bush administration
*Jane Fonda: I remember Hanoi Jane Don’t you think?… Oh that’s because Jane Fonda was to Vietnam to support the VietCom.
*Russell Crowe: because his carachter is very dangerous…
*michael Moore: we know why him
And especial punishment to other actors like Cameron Diaz, Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal (If I remember she said worse things about 9/11), Gael Garcia Bernal, Johnny Depp, will Smith, Charlie and Martin Sheen, Rosie O’Donnell…
that’s sound stupid. Don’t you think. Finally I mark that she has the right to defensse and/or apologizes (According the case). For me, she’s a beautiful great actress with an intersting career of big productions and intersting films and 2007 best Actress of the Year with her performance like Edith Piaf in “la vie en rose”.
P.D.: She isn’t anti-american or why she works in American productions, her brother lives in San Francisco and receives the Oscar? it’s illogic. people be smart and logical.
gah. don’t do this to AD.
‘Tis a shame indeed. I agree with Sasha: it’s silly — who cares what Marion thinks about conspiracy theories? What has shocked me (this went viral pretty quickly over the weekend) was the almost fanatical willingness to vilify her by some quarters (while I don’t doubt some people were genuinely offended, I couldn’t help but think: sour grapes, much?).
A lot of my favorite actors and actresses get in trouble for their views, so I guess I’ll add Cotillard to that list! She still gave one of the best performances I’ve ever seen. How interesting that set of “Public Enemies” should be right about now! (co-star Johnny Depp had his share of controversy a few years ago over comments about the US government as well).
While we’re at it: who did kill JFK? Hmmm… 😉
Have to agree with you Vincent. People just love to hate the French. Or even French residents. Remember the faux ourtrage at Johnny Depp a few years ago?
Yes. And the controversy was originally created by a London Newspaper who was probably upset that she beat Julie Christie. How’s that for a conspiracy theory. Seriously though, is this even considered news?
She’s catching heat because she’s a French woman who thinks that. I know plenty of Americans who subscribe to that same theory. If she was an American man, this wouldn’t even have made the papers.
-Vincent
this is silly!
“I could care less, honestly”. My thoughts exactly. It really does not affect me what an actress thought over a year ago. Why should anyone put any weight on what she says? It’s her opinion, I hope people leave it at that and do not start boycotting her or vilifying her. I always wonder why reporters ask those questions anyway? Do they sit around and think, “Should we ask her about her upcoming movie or ask her her personal theories on the 9/11 attacks? Since she is an actress and not related to politics at all, let’s ask her the 9/11 question!”.