Ava DuVernay talks about Hollywood’s Lack of Diversity and Oscar Apathy

The headline at Democracy Now! reads “Selma Director Ava DuVernay on Hollywood’s Lack of Diversity, Oscar Snub and #OscarsSoWhite Hashtag.” But aren’t we so very tired of the whole concept of “snub”? How about we say Oscar Apathy. Sounds better than Oscar Incompetence. Host Amy Goodman tracked Ms DuVernay down in Park City where, of course, Sundance is this week underway. There’s a convenient transcript that makes it easy for me to lift some key points to port over here for discussion after the cut. We’re able to embed an 8-minute excerpt. You can watch the entire half-hour segment at Democracy Now and a full 60-minute interview here.

AMY GOODMAN: And congratulations for the Golden Globes.

AVA DUVERNAY: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: But you didn’t get nominated, and there are a lot of people all over this country who have seen this film and are shocked that you weren’t nominated for best director. Your thoughts on this?

AVA DUVERNAY: You know, I didn’t expect to be. I actually knew that it wasn’t going to happen. I’ve been telling people since October; no one listened to me. I’m serious. Old interviews that are coming out now, friends who said, “Yeah, you did say that.” I just knew it wasn’t going to be the case, so I never took it into my heart, so it never—didn’t really bother me. I was more bothered by David not being nominated. That hurt my feelings, because I know what he—you know, the beautiful performance. But it’s a—

AMY GOODMAN: David Oyelowo.

AVA DUVERNAY: David Oyelowo, the star of the film who plays Dr. King. But the bottom line is, the film was chosen in some categories—best picture, best song were nominated—and wasn’t chosen in others. And, you know—

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Common and John Legend.

AVA DUVERNAY: That’s Common and John Legend for the song, for “Glory,” and best picture, which is nothing to sneeze at. Nothing to sneeze at. So, you know.

AMY GOODMAN: So, you know this hashtag, the Twitter hashtag #OscarsSoWhite, that began trending soon after the nominees were announced, so many people shocked that your name wasn’t among them, and David’s, as well—

AVA DUVERNAY: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: —pointing out that a 2012 survey conducted by the Los Angeles Times found Oscar voters are 94 percent white, 76 percent male, and the average age 63 years old. Do you think that has anything to do with it?

AVA DUVERNAY: You know, I think—I think, you know, folks see films, see history, see art, see life through their own lens. And when there’s a consensus that has to be made by a certain group, you know, the consensus is most likely going to be through a specific lens. And unless there’s diversity amongst the people that are trying to come to the consensus, then, you know, there will be a lack of diversity in what the consensus is, if that makes sense. So, I think, you know, being here at Sundance is a great example of a group, of an organization that’s made a commitment to diversity, that have considered diversity as more than a talking point, but an action item. You know, I won best director here in 2012, but I was the first black person to do so. So it was a long time coming in that being—you know, that door being opened.

AMY GOODMAN: That was for Middle of Nowhere.

AVA DUVERNAY: That was for Middle of Nowhere. But there’s been a real articulated kind of mission by the institute, by the Sundance Institute, to say we—”Regardless of awards, we are going to be a platform, we are going to be a space, for voices of all kinds, all over the world.” And they’ve articulated that mission, and they’ve executed, and they’re continuing to execute. And so, I think when you talk about the Academy or you talk about just this industry in general, the studios, everyone needs to, if we really care about it, not just say we care about it, but actually work towards it. And so, perhaps all of the hoopla this year will trigger some action. But maybe not. I don’t know.

AMY GOODMAN: No person of color not only for best director, no person of color, as you point out, for best actor, best actress, best supporting actress, best supporting actor.

AVA DUVERNAY: This year.

AMY GOODMAN: This year.

AVA DUVERNAY: This year. In past years we’ve had it. But the bottom line is, I don’t think the question is so much about the awards; the question is: Why was Selma the only film that was even in the running with people of color for the award? You know what I mean? I mean, why are there not—not just black, brown people? You know what I mean? Asian people, indigenous people, representations that are more than just one voice, just one face, just one gaze? So, for me, it’s much less about the awards and the accolades, because, literally, next year no one cares. Right? I can’t even tell you who won the award for whatever three years ago. I don’t know.

AMY GOODMAN: What are the obstacles in the way?

AVA DUVERNAY: The obstacle, it is systemic. It’s systemic. It’s a system that’s been set up in a certain way. Times have changed, ideas have matured, and the system might not have caught up with that or stayed up with that. But you have very conscious people, very, you know, liberal people, very progressive people within the Academy. I’m a member. I was invited a couple of years ago. My black cinematographer, Bradford Young, was invited this year. There’s an attempt, but, you know, like I said, it needs to be articulated and followed up on. I think the thing that is challenging is when people talk about it should happen, but then there’s no follow up to that. So the hope is, with Cheryl Boone Isaacs, who’s the new president of the Academy, and some other people there who are really intentional about wanting to see just an opening up—it’s not about Selma. Maybe people just didn’t like it. You know what I mean? Maybe they just didn’t like it. But it’s really more about Selma shouldn’t have been the only hope for faces of color in this kind of celebration of film.