I don’t get this thing about Mo’Nique hurting her Oscar chances by not upping her profile. I really don’t like the negativity floating around about her — based on what? She supposedly only shows up if she gets paid? She appeared recently on CBS’ Sunday Morning in a segment about weight (she’s lost 40 pounds). I think she’s pretty cool.
Anne Thompson lays it out very nicely in her latest Thompson on Hollywood article but I am not quite buying it with Mo’Nique and here’s why. Mo’Nique is very much out there. She might not be front and center in the Academy’s face but she is out there and she is well known. What is going to happen to her street cred if she starts kissing AMPAS’ ass? We all know, as Thompson points out, that talent should win the day and that no one should have to play the game to win. We also know that if you want the Oscar you have to:
1. Let everyone know you want the Oscar, like Kate Winslet did.
2. Present yourself well in the run up to Oscar (no messy divorces, breakups, sex tapes or public displays of aggression)
3. Show up for everything.
4. Give a great pre-Oscars acceptance speech (something tells me Mo’Nique will have the chance to do this) – cry, act as though you can’t believe this is happening, even if everyone expected it.
5. Don’t appear to desperate to win.
Number 5 is the hardest of all. How do you let everyone know you want to win without appearing desperate? You must show everywhere, do numbers 2 through 4 and always say either someone else is going to win or someone else deserves to win. Kate Winslet performed this perfectly. She put it out there that she wanted to win at the beginning of the race. But then she simply shut up about it the entire run-up to the voting, even as she kept winning and winning.
Given all of this, one might understand why some people simply opt out – and in so doing, fail to win Oscars. I guess now would be the time to consider the value of winning an Oscar anymore.
139 Responses for "Uniquely Mo’Nique"
Mo’Nique should win based on the caliber of her performance alone. She was much better than either of the ladies of Up in the Air (though they were both fabulous…).
Its too bad Oscars can’t simply be based on the actors performance…
The Oscars are rarely, if ever, just about the performance or skillset presented. There is a game to be played, votes to be campaigned for.
What is interesting is Mo’Nique has stated that the story of ‘Precious’ was very personal to her. She was abused by her brother and used that experience, and channelled him to get the rage in the performance.
If you have seen the film there is no doubt that each of the performances came from a deeply personal place.
Is it any wonder why she does not want to re-live it all through endless questions.
Should she not be nominated, or win, the uproar will be deafening.
The reason I can’t stand Clooney is because of how he acted when he was trying for a best supporting Oscar. He did come off to me as being arrogant and desparate. Now of course he is starting the same bs. I really hope he loses this time. Mo’Nique keep doing what you are doing. If you don’t get the nomination than it is the Academy’s lost not yours.
Kate Winslet performed this perfectly. She put it out there that she wanted to win at the beginning of the race. But then she simply shut up about it the entire run-up to the voting, even as she kept winning and winning.
I’m going to have to disagree with you there. I know PLENTY of people who thought Kate was extremely desperate and annoying by the time the Oscars finally came around.
I hope she has a shot-as mentioned it should be based on performance. I too got sick to death of Kate Winslett BEGGING for the Oscar
6. Don’t have a film be released during Oscar voting period in which you play multiple roles, including a fat woman.
-Eddie Murphy
Mo’Nique will be nominated and will win for this performance. Reguardless of if she shows up and plays nice. I think it will transcend the politics. She honestly is that strong.
‘I guess now would be the time to consider the value of winning an Oscar anymore.’
On the one hand I think it’s a good thing to debate this but Sasha you seem to be CONSTANTLY besmirching the Oscars. Truth to be told, for many of us, when Sean Penn wins for MILK and when Kate WInslet (finally) wins (for the wrong film but she won!)…there is still great value there. There always will be.
Mo’Nique kicked ass in PRECIOUS and deserves a nomination and I think she will get one. She may even win. I don’t think her playing the game matters here. It’s a perf that transcends all the bullshit.
Casey – I tend to agree.
Her performance stirred up emotions in me that I still do not understand,
Go, Mo’Nique.
The award is for best performance and not for who is the most adorable.
People aren’t fond of voting for people who behave like assholes, brilliant performance or not. Just ask Russell Crowe. I’ll bet she gets lots of critics awards but right now, the Oscar? No way. They’ll give it to someone with some class.
As far as number 2 is concerned….I think the Con-Man boyfriend story actually helped Anne Hathaway last year, as she could play the “poor girl” role, give “pity me” speeches and get sympathy votes. Being the “defenseless innocente sweet princess who has been made a fool of by her boyfriend of four years and didn´t know anything” was quite and act, and she made the best of it.Has anyone forgetten she had people crying over her “I deserve the love of a good man” speech at that critics awards?
Monica, I agree with you, but unfortunatly, being the most adorable counts. Oscar voters are suckers for innocent sweet harmless cutesy good girls.
The Academy is also a sucker for minimally talented actors, and in some cases filmmakers, who get lucky with one performance and never do anything again.
as an actor, i actually love how honest kate winslet was for saying she wants it. they all want it, who are we kidding?
as for mo’nique…there is actually no way her performance can be ignored. think of people like woody allen who openly say they don’t care about the oscars…mr. allen has 3 oscars not to mention countless director and screenwriting nominations.
true genius always wins in the end, i think.
When I see the movie I’ll be able to tell if she can afford NOT to show up.
“Casey – I tend to agree. Her performance stirred up emotions in me that I still do not understand,”
Sounds like therapy might be in your future Michael Parsons.
The Performance gets you to the dance, going home as Homecoming Queen is performance, politics, & so much more.
Mo’Nique needs to start shutting up. She’s really going to start polarizing Academy voters who’d rather vote for someone they like or someone who a) appears classier than her or b)an actress who they want to have it more.
She’s not going to be winning a popularity contest. The question remains is there anyone close. There’s love for Anna Kendrick but screen time isn’t there (and she has the cutie factor), Penelope just won an Oscar (too early), Judi Dench (has a couple), but Julianne Moore very deserving small performance or not this could be the Tilda Swinton Oscar.
Oscar voters definitely don’t want to vote for someone that they don’t like – performance be damned. I’m really hard pressed to think of any actor who won an Oscar despite having bad press in the months before the show.
However, buzz is really important, and Mo’Nique has that. But so does Julianne Moore, who the Academy might see as being “due”. And we all know that the Academy loves to dole out Oscars in the supporting categories to actors they feel are “due” vs. actors who actually deserve to win that particular year.
she will probably win, it will be another gimmick win like jennifer hudson
allen
it’s too early to start using the word “gimmick”. Unlike Hudson, Monique’s buzz is stemming from the impact of her performance. Hudson’s buzz was simply generated by the “from American idol reject to possible Oscar winner” tagline. Monique has no Simon Cowell diss stories; neither did she scream her way through a Jennifer Holdiay classic. Her buzz is based on “Acting” and “Acting” alone. Give the woman some credit. Thanks!
My favorite post about the Hudson’s oscar glory. Please read it lol
http://www.drivl.com/posts/view/714
Allen,
To call it a gimmick win is, IMO, not recognizing the strength of the role. I think many people felt, when they heard that Dreamgirls was being made into a film, that whoever was lucky enough to land the spot of Effie was, at the very least, guaranteed a nomination. Provided they didn’t “ef” it up. It’s that strong of a role and even though Jennifer Hudson, in her young career, has yet to prove herself again. Having done a great job with that role is what sealed the deal for her. And let’s not forget how much the Academy likes a backstory as well as someone who sings their own songs. Reese Witherspoon anyone?
And I’m sorry but I’m sick of people comaparing Mo’Nique to Jennifer Hudson anyway. They are two different people with different circumstances.
I do think when the film is released wide, a lot of this anti-Mo talk will die down.
The performance will speak for itself.
http://oscarwrestler.blogspot.com/
KGB
I beg to differ with you. Hudson did not do a “great” job with that role. Notice how she couldn’t even shed a real tear during the entire movie. She was overacting most of the time; over yelling, over twirling her neck, over twisting her hips, over everything. Her rendition of “And you, and you…” was not as impressive as everyone made it out to be. She was off of key with her explosive screams and shrieks. But as you said, the role of effie is an iconic role so there was already buzz before she was chosen to play the character. That and her American idol story really helped to propel her forward.
Such a shame what the Academy did.
Isn’t it funny that she was the only Academy award winner in the sex and the city movie but she managed to deliver the worst performance? lol AMPAS, you must be really proud of your offspring.
How the hell did JHud end up in the conversation? Oh, all black women are alike? For SHAME!
OK, maybe “great” was a poor choice of words. My point being that as long as she didn’t fall flat on her face… (and she didn’t) that ROLE would have carried any competent performer to a nomination at the very least. As for the rest, we know how the Academy loves a back story! Perhaps Eddie was cast in the wrong role?
j hud hate is like hilary swank hate, it’s too easy.
j hud’s performance had people cheering and clapping in theatres. i have never seen that before.
mo’nique is far from a gimmick. precious is very much so a labour of love and what mo’nique did is quite brilliant…
although, for the record julianne moore would be a worthy 2nd choice. her performance in it reminded me a bit of her work in boogie nights (one of my favourite female performances ever…)
KGB
I understand what you mean and yes! the Academy indeed loves a back story.
Loyal
I don’t think anyone is insinuating that all black women are alike. JHud simply came into this when a reader said Monique winning would be a gimmick like the J Hud win. I think the majority of people here were trying to refute that claim by showing the differences between both actresses (not that I consider J Hud to be an actress)
Jason
I’ve said in several posts that Moore is going to win best supporting actress. She’s been snubbed so many times before and despite Monique’s buzz, I strongly feel like this will be her year.
I don’t like the lecturing tone of these articles, suggesting to Mo’Nique how she needs to act if she wants to win awards. Kate Winslet desperately wanted to win an Oscar, that’s why she desperately campaigned for it. Mo’Nique, to understate the case, is not Kate Winslet.
Since I haven’t seen Precious, I’m not yet invested in the need to see Mo’Nique win an Oscar. I’m happy to see her carry through with this experiment in seemingly not appearing to play the game properly. Then if she deserves to win — and doesn’t — the outcry and hysterics from her fans will be as entertaining to me as anything she could ever say in an acceptance speech.
Where is all this talk about Kate Winslet desperately wanting an Oscar coming from in the first place? I have been ignoring that annoying statement for a long time now but I can’t anymore. Please, back up your claim by posting the links to videos/and or articles of Winslet desperately telling AMPAS that she needs an Oscar.
So she was a little dramatic during her Golden Globe acceptance speeches; so what? after being snubbed her whole life, isn’t it only normal for her to freak out when her name is finally called out? Let’s not also forget that it was the media who kept probing Kate about the Oscar. What was she suppose to do? lie? like there is some actor in Hollywood who doesn’t want an Oscar.
This whole begging claptrap seems to have been concocted by anti-Winslet fanatics who are trying to discredit her. SMH
Jennifer Hudson hate IS like Hilary Swank (at least for MDB) hate, in that both are justified. Both had almost comically bulletproof Oscar roles that they rendered adequately. Though I’m mixed-negative on Precious — Guy Lodge is right on target when he critiques the “garish and occasionally condescending methods” by which Daniels seeks to draw out our sympathy (http://incontention.com/?p=16274#more-16274) — I must say that Mo’Nique is in a different camp altogether. It’s a performance so compelling and true that it has the strange effect of undercutting the film’s less convincing “Each One-Teach One” rhetoric of self-reliance and education as a means to attain black uplift. At the end of the film, you can’t help wondering “Glad that Precious is more cheerful now, but who IS going to love Mo’Nique?”
qwiggles
Interesting write-up. Since when has portraying realism become “garrish” and a “condescending method” by which Daniels draws out sympathy? I know a lot of African American and Latino girls who are living precious’ story. Precious is not some cooked up fiction invented by Daniels to make people cry and feel bad about themselves. Maybe you and Guy Lodge need to step outside your carboard suburban homes and into that other side of America. The side in which girls like Precious call home. Just a suggestion.
Since when has portraying realism become “garrish” and a “condescending method” by which Daniels draws out sympathy?
From what I understand, there are several sequences of pure fantasy — Precious starring in a rap music video, Precious seeing herself as a skinny blonde in the mirror, and — most jarring of all — Precious and her family portrayed in the cinematic context of an Italian neo-realist movie from the 1960’s. Let’s ignore the question of how the hell could Precious be having film fantasies in the language of Vittorio de Sica, and just concede that none of those scenes have anything to do with “realism.”
There’s nothing unrealistic about girls like precious dreaming about starring in rap music videos or wanting to be skinny blonde girls. Of course, Precious is a movie and with film making you sometimes have to embellish certain parts of the film for artistic value and to get a point across. So yes! I expect some parts of Precios to be embellished but the core of the story, from what I have seen from the trailer, is VERY VERY realistic. Everything I have seen and heard and read about Precious strikes me as 100 percent realistic simply because (forgive my repetition) I know a lot of real life preciouses. +
Nobody is saying that dreams are not allowed in realistic movies. You asked, what’s “garish” about Precious, and I’m saying that a lot of people think Lee Daniels’ handling of the manifestation of those dreams onscreen was garish.
Looking in a mirror and seeing a blonde beauty queen staring back at you sounds corny as hell, and I hope it’s not as clumsy as some are saying. But the Italian neo-realist sequence just feels gauche and pseudo-artsy for pseudo-artsiness sake.
Lee Daniels is nothing if not ferociously independent (and a bit of a blowhard). He raises the money for these films himself and has no one to answer to.
Sometimes having a boss is a good thing. That boss would be able to point out things like Precious having no frame of reference for Italian neorealism.
I’m having a hard time digesting the assertion that there is no frame of reference for italian neorealism in Precious. Why is that? because Precious is from the ghetto? if the reference is fitting and compatible with the story then what is the issue?
Afrika, are you being deliberately thick-headed? If it’s Precious doing the dreaming, where do you think she’s seen enough Italian Neorealist films to enable construction of that dream in her mind? Her Greencine DVD queue? Her afterschool seminar on Roberto Rossellini? All the time she spends in the library on the 791.4 aisle?
How many foreign language films do you think Precious has seen or even heard about? How can she dream about something she’s never come across?
Precious herself says in the film “They talk like TV channels I don’t watch.”
The “they” in question being educated adults. Stands to reason between being raped, being pregnant, being beat by her mum, not to mention having a general dislike of high culture, that she doesn’t have much time to hit up Michelangelo Antonioni at the Angelika.
Afrika, as a wheelchair-using cheap apartment-dweller — ask me how many of those are even accessible — I’m thoroughly incapable of stepping out of a suburban home I don’t own. Nor do I live in America, which I’m sure you’ll agree is not the only country in the world. But I’ll give your question a shot anyway.
I’m not sure where either Lodge or I claimed to find garishness and condescension in Daniels’ efforts at “portraying realism” — your addition to the argument. As Ryan pointed out, Lodge is referring specifically to the dream sequences full of jump cuts, wonky colour filters, and stylized dialogue. He’s also pointing to the neorealist moment where Precious inserts herself into the film she briefly catches on TV, which is especially confusing given Precious’s note later on that her teacher and her partner speak like the women in the TV shows she doesn’t watch. To these two glitches I would add the weird classroom scenes, where Paula Patton is inexplicably backlit, her skin significantly lightened.
None of these moments adhere to a realist aesthetic, and, yes, they’re condescending in their reduction of Precious’s problems to simple visually conveyed ideas like: if only I were a cute blonde girl in a BET video, or, if only mom and I could talk like they do in the movies, or, if only I were an angelic light-skinned teacher.
You’re right that Precious’s life is not some “cooked up fiction.” So why does Daniels cook it up?
Exactly, Loyal.
“They talk like TV channels I don’t watch.”
What TV channel has Neorealism Night anyway? I’d like to add it to my cable lineup.
Darn it Ryan, you beat me to the point!
Well put.
Loyal, we seem to have made the same point at the same moment, across the vastness of the Internet. Yay us!
To clarify one point about the neorealist dream: it starts because Precious walks in on her mom napping to a film with Anna Magnani on TV. So her exposure to it is real but very brief, and it’s left a bit puzzling how she would know enough of the genre to imagine herself transplanted into it, unless this is a regular screening series or something. (Unlikely.) More likely is that Daniels is quoting Almodóvar’s use of images of Magnani as an uber-mother figure in Volver and beyond. So the problem remains that we’re getting a Precious dream that seems a lot like a Lee Daniels, Cinephile dream.
Dammit! Beaten to my point about the neorealist channel, too. I fail at timing.
Daniels is known for these types of nonsensical indulgences.
from the NYT article
“It was an anarchic shoot,” Mirren recalled enthusiastically. “Lee was learning on the set. He loved the designer Vivienne Westwood, and he told me, ‘You’re going to wear Vivienne Westwood!’ I said, ‘Why would a contract killer living in Philly wear Vivienne Westwood?’ But the why was irrelevant.”
He’s on the big stage now and these previously unexplainable whims need purpose and meaning.
I prefer people to have been nominated or proven themseleves at least once before they take home an Oscar. Unless they give a mind blowing performance, ala Hilary Swank in Boys Dont Cry, Charlize Theron in Monster, and Marion Cotillard in La Vie En Rose. That being said, I really think that Julianne Moore could win it this year. I’m really hoping she does.
qwiggles
No one said Precious needs to be versed with italian neorealism. She’s dreaming about belonging to something elite; higher than her current status. That is when film making steps in. Daniels is simply translating her dreams and putting them in a certain context so that audiences can understand how far she is trying to stretch away from her reality.
Look at children fantasy movies like bridge to terabithia. So are we to believe then that these kids are able to imagine such elaborate worlds with high tech engineered buildings and creatures who have an elevated diction?
I am also fully aware of the fact that America is not the only country in the world. How am I able to know this? I am not American too
But you see Precious is an American story which mirrors the lives of a lot of American girls. So if you are not familiar with that side of America then questioning the realism of Precious is a little, um, how can I say this? ignorant.
FYI, Paula is half-white thus she is lighter-skinned than the typical black person. You have her white parent to blame for the “apparent” contrast not the camera’s lightning.
“Precious is an American story which mirrors the lives of a lot of American girls. So if you are not familiar with that side of America then questioning the realism of Precious is a little, um, how can I say this? ignorant.”
And being a guy from Africa visiting America for college makes you an expert on the reality of American girls in the ghetto how exactly?
“Look at children fantasy movies like bridge to terabithia. So are we to believe then that these kids are able to imagine such elaborate worlds”
Great point. If your point is to equate Precious with the depth of The Bridge to Terabithia.
loyal
with regards to that interview with Mirren, what was her intention? to ridicule Daniels and portray him as an amateur? Mirren is a bitch, there’s no doubt about that, but she is talented so I would give her a pass. I’m sure Ms.-I-know-quality-material-Mirren had fun doing her meaty roles in Caliguila and National Treasure. Bitch please! EPIC FAIL
Ryan Adams
When did I say I was an “expert”? if I recall correctly, I said precious’ story bears striking similarities to a lot of African American and Latino girls I know. Please scroll up and read my comments carefully before making damaging accusations. My fraternity does community work in Minneapolis ghettos and I work with these girls almost every weekend. I do know what I am talking about.
And just so you know, my mum is American. But please, let’s not make this about me. Let’s stick to the subject matter.
I saw that movie about the Minneapolis ghettos!!
or wait, was that the Slums of Beverly Hills?
to be fair, I think Down and Out in Beverly Hills is a more realistic depiction of life in the 90210 ghetto.
what you said, Afrika, was: “if you are not familiar with that side of America then questioning the realism of Precious is a little, um, how can I say this? ignorant.”
I’m just questioning how your fraternity experience makes you any less ignorant than everybody else whose opinion you dismiss.
Afrika’s “mum” is American? There are ghettos in Minneapolis? EPIC FAIL indeed. What an idiot.
David Poland weighs in
http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotblog/
Thanks, Afrika — I’m aware that there are gradations in skin tone, but it’s always nice to be reminded. It’d be great though if you could explain how being of mixed-race origins gives a person an angelic, backlit glow. She and no one else in the film looks like Mia Farrow’s Daisy in The Great Gatsby, and surely there’s a reason for it beyond, you know, her skin colour. Or maybe I’m just crazy for wondering why the film needs a good-as-white angel to rescue Precious at all.
“She’s dreaming about belonging to something elite; higher than her current status.”
Actually, she isn’t: she’s dreaming of her mother talking to her like the self-sacrificing mothers in Rosselini films.
Both of these points would probably be cleared up if you’d seen the film.
qwiggles
Precious could have been dreaming about winning a damn Oscar and it still wouldn’t make a difference. As I said before, “Daniels is simply translating her dreams and putting them in a certain context so that audiences can understand how far she is trying to stretch away from her reality”.
Your obsession with the “backlit glow” is killing me LOL I can’t stop laughing everytime you go on and on about the “backlit glow”. Maybe if you watched more movies with light-skinned black people then it wouldn’t be much of an issue anymore. LOL
Hunter
is that the best you’ve got? go home and try harder.
Afrika Just when I start to like you again you start with the Hudson crap. Hudson was brilliant in the role, watch Holiday and she looks like she’s chewing meat thru her entire song. Let it go.
Yes, Afrika, and maybe if you’d watch Precious you’d realize Paula Patton is portrayed as a source of Enlightenment, capital E, and that her translucent skin, which looks a bit like Edward Cullen’s in the sun, is made a visual marker of her goodness. All she lacks are the sparkling rhinestones.
I’m arguing that Daniels turns Paula Patton’s character into some kind of glowing Joan of Arc of education, and that he uses her lighter skin, re: Precious to do it. You’re arguing that Paula Patton has light skin. One of these is a claim about the film, and the other is an observation.
Do your homework. I’ve done mine.
Instead of comparing Monique’s performance to Jennifer Hudson’s mediocre waltz through Dreamgirls why not compare it to Viola Davis concerto in Doubt? Davis had what ten minutes at the most on the screen and in that short time span painted a character that we completely understood and sympathized with. That ten minutes told us so much about that character’s life. That’s a performance. I still think Monique will get a nomination. I think what she needs to do is pray that there are not any other Viola Davis moments that pop up between now and the end of the season. If there are then everyone nominated in that category should hold their breath because I don’t think the Academy is going to repeat dumping a performance like Viola Davis’ for the Penelope Cruz type histrionics. Oh and btw a Viola Davis moment in my opinion goes beyond the color of anyone’s skin. The Viola Davis moment is all about an actress who gets the chance to show the world she’s an actress.
“I don’t think the Academy is going to repeat dumping a performance like Viola Davis’ for the Penelope Cruz type histrionics”
“Oh and btw a Viola Davis moment in my opinion goes beyond the color of anyone’s skin. The Viola Davis moment is all about an actress who gets the chance to show the world she’s an actress.”
Nic, you are a GENIUS. AD needs more people like you.
The “Queen” of Comedy…
I’m sorry, but I don’t think there will be this raucous uproar over Mo’Nique not winning an Oscar.
In an earlier thread the commentator know as ‘Hunter’ actually said in regards to the actors in ‘Precious’.
“I live in Barcelona, where there aren’t any fat people. I find them revolting. I’m sure the actresses are very nice people and they are terrific actors, but just looking at them makes me want to hurl.”
And this is a perfect example of a lot of problems people are going to have with this movie.
Prejudice.
It forces people to look at their own prejudices and ask themselves questions that are uncomfortable to answer.
“Why does Mary allow the abuse to happen?”
These and many others are not so simple to answer. They need thought, research and insight.
Personally the film moved me to such an extent, I am doing a lot of reading of the themes the film brought up to understand.
Hence when I said that the film stirred emotions in me I do not understand it was true. I do not understand why I feel empathy for Mary and I want to.
I do not think there is anyone who has seen the film, who thinks that Mo’Nique does not give an amazing performance. All of these negative comments I am reading seem to stem from a much darker place than “I did not like the performance”.
It was a solid, good performance. I did not find it amazing. I didn’t find it as an Oscar winning performance, although it is worthy of a nomination.(Which is more than she has ever deserved)
You can’t compare Hudson to Mo’Nique. One performance was a first performance in a musical when she is a singer. The other has been in a litany of shitty films. I’m giving the Academy a pass on Hudson. Hopefully Mo’Nique actually makes something of this and becomes an actual actress who churns out good-great performances in the future. I hope this is the start of something for her. Until then, I can’t reconcile her winning an Academy Award until then.
Michael Parsons
Very well said. I give your write-up a standing ovation.
“Mo’Nique…has been in a litany of shitty films. Hopefully Mo’Nique actually makes something of this and becomes an actual actress who churns out good-great performances in the future.” – chrisw
LOL I thought AD had had this argument before. Maybe if Hollywood had a multitude of meaty roles readily available for ethnic women then Monique would have ample opportunity to “churn out good-great performances in the future”. You don’t believe me? go and ask Angela Bassett.
I’m not arguing with you, Afrika. Don’t press it.
LOL. She can always go on the stage and at least be in dramatic roles, even if it’s small. Don’t confuse race in Hollywood with her laziness as an actress and comedian. LOL.
Not cool to be so patronizing, I’ve never done it to you.
“LOL I thought AD had had this argument before.”
deja vu, meet deja vu redux.
call kettle black much?
lol these comments are killing me. Monique can now add lazy actress and comedian to the list of accusations levied against her.
As Michael Parsons said “And this is a perfect example of a lot of problems people are going to have with this movie.Prejudice.”
And you can really see the Prejudice in these comments.
Before Precious:# Welcome Home, Roscoe Jenkins (2008) …. Betty
# “Ugly Betty” …. L’Amanda (1 episode, 2007)
– I See Me, I.C.U. (2007) TV episode …. L’Amanda
# “The Boondocks” …. Jamiqua (1 episode, 2007)
– …Or Die Trying (2007) TV episode (voice) …. Jamiqua
# “The Game” …. Plus Size Actress (1 episode, 2007)
– Diary of a Mad Black Women, Redux (2007) TV episode …. Plus Size Actress
# Mo’Nique’s F.A.T. Chance: The Road to Paris (2007) (TV) …. Mo’Nique
# “Nip/Tuck” …. Evetta Washington (1 episode, 2006)
– Conor McNamara (2006) TV episode …. Evetta Washington
# Beerfest (2006) …. Cherry
# Phat Girlz (2006) …. Jazmin Biltmore
# Irish Jam (2006) …. Pyscho
# Farce of the Penguins (2006) (V) (voice) …. Vicky
# Domino (2005) …. Lateesha Rodriguez
… aka Domino (France)
# Shadowboxer (2005) …. Precious
# Hair Show (2004) (as Mo’Nique) …. Peaches
# Soul Plane (2004) (as Mo’Nique) …. Jamiqua
# “The Parkers” …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker (111 episodes, 1999-2004)
– At Last (2004) TV episode …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker
– A Little Change Never Hurt Anybody (2004) TV episode …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker
– Could It Be You (2004) TV episode …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker
– Practice What You Preach (2004) TV episode …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker
– Judge Not a Book (2004) TV episode …. Nicole ‘Nikki’ Parker
(106 more)
# “The Bernie Mac Show” …. Lynette (1 episode, 2004)
– Who’s That Lady? (2004) TV episode …. Lynette
# Good Fences (2003) (TV) (as Mo’Nique) …. Ruth Crisp
# Half Past Dead (2002) (as Mo’Nique) …. Twitch’s Girl
… aka Halbtot – Half Past Dead (Germany)
# Two Can Play That Game (2001) …. Diedre
# Baby Boy (2001) …. Patrice
# “The Hughleys” …. Nikki Parker (1 episode, 2001)
– Forty Acres and a Fool (2001) TV episode (as Mo’Nique) …. Nikki Parker
# “Moesha” …. Nikki Parker (3 episodes, 1999-2000)
– The Candidate (2000) TV episode …. Nikki Parker
– I Studied Twelve Years for This? (1999) TV episode …. Nikki Parker
– It Takes Two (1999) TV episode …. Nikki Parker
# 3 Strikes (2000) …. Dahlia
This isn’t lazy? This isn’t collecting a paycheck?
No, no. I refuse to get in an argument, I can’t do it. You can’t honestly think this way. And yes, Afrika, she’s a comedian, look at all these films. What are they? Comedies. I classify Shadowboxer as a comedy also.
“And this is a perfect example of a lot of problems people are going to have with this movie.
Prejudice.
It forces people to look at their own prejudices and ask themselves questions that are uncomfortable to answer.” – Michael Parsons
Here was I thinking we were talking about Mo’Nique performance in ‘Precious’ and not her back catalogue.
So far her agenda has been a comedy actress and stand up performer and she has been happy with that. This movie was a personal detour.
And to be honest Afrika is completely right. There are not a lot of juicy dramatic roles for Actresses. I believe the reason Whoopie Goldberg no longer acts is because she is no longer offered good roles.
Sadly this is the case for a lot of women of colour in Hollywood.
ooops Meant to read “There are not a lot of juicy dramatic roles for black Actresses.”
Michael Parsons
You are right about Whoopi. Even look at Angela Bassett. She has to pay her mortgage by starring in Tyler Perry flicks. Look at what happened to Taraji last year. She went from Oscar nominee to starring in a Tyler Perry flick. Viola Davis hasn’t equally snagged anything meaty since her turn in Doubt. She’s only got minor roles, one of them being Julua Roberts’ best friend.
The prejudice of certain people won’t allow them to acknowledge that Monique hit a home run in this movie. Instead, they would pull out guest starring roles she had on Moesha in a desperate bid to discredit her. LMAO purely entertaining to watch.
OK, Afrika, you caught me. I’m a racist for not respecting Mo’Nique’s career. It took this to look inside myself and see that I hate everyone who isn’t a white Roman Catholic American. Thank you for this enlightenment. I am now free in a way Roy Cohn never was.
Yes, we’re talking about her performance, but there are many people out there who don’t think she deserves an Oscar for actually doing something of merit after years of hogwash. We all agree that she should be nominated, no dispute in it, but there are some who think she should do one more performance to make sure it’s not a fluke. That’s all.
And I’m not prejudging Afrika. Prejudging is judging BEFORE knowing something or someone. I’m judging. If you’re going to do the whole race thing, at least know the words.
“All of these negative comments I am reading seem to stem from a much darker place than “I did not like the performance”.”
Well said Mr. Parsons
Yup, I hate black people.
Gabby is in talks to star in a comedy pilot for showtime. Great news for her
http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE59R08U20091028
I haven’t seen the film and I probably shouldn’t jump into this, but I can’t help it… I find it hilarious that so many people on so many blogs and web sites are losing their SHIT over a film that hasn’t even been released yet.
1) I don’t get the argument that Mo’Nique has to build her filmography before she’s deemed worthy of an Oscar. That’s hogwash – the same BS that kept Eddie Murphy from winning for Dreamgirls. The point (or so I thought) was to honor the best performances and films of that year. What happens before or after that should be inconsequential. What Mo’Nique did in “The Parkers” or any shit movies she does AFTER this (and she probably will) should have nothing to do with her chances for Precious if she’s as good as pretty much everyone says she is.
1a) I don’t remember anyone complaining earlier this year about the many disastrous film and life roles that Mickey Rourke took back in the day…that somehow it made him less worthy to possibly win for “The Wrestler.” In his case, it was framed as redemption.
1b) Let’s not forget Dr. Haing Ngor (sp?) winning for “The Killing Fields.” Hadn’t acted before or since (and now he’s deceased).
2) The earlier “Precious and Italian neorealism” thread. I agree that that is Daniels flexing his cineaste muscles, but the premise is actually not completely far fetched. My sister’s favorite films since childhood have been “M” and “Metropolis,” and we grew up in ‘da hood’ without cable! Post-a 500 channel universe is hard to think of it now, but I remember in bigger TV markets that independent and PBS stations would frequently show classic foreign films late at night (a few still do). So it is possible to be exposed to Fellini or Antonioni without going to film school and/or frequenting your local arthouse.
filmfemme
You have raised some valid points especially your point about Mickey Rourke. As Michael Parsons said, “…this is a perfect example of a lot of problems people are going to have with this movie.Prejudice. It forces people to look at their own prejudices and ask themselves questions that are uncomfortable to answer.”
I’m real glad Afrika and Michael Parsons are BFF. Now she can go haunt HIS blog nonstop and leave us alone here.
Erik
First of all, I’m a guy. Secondly, thanks for letting me know that Michael Parsons has a blog. I checked it out and it’s a really good blog. Thirdly, I won’t argue with you so stop trying to ignite a confrontation. Chrisw tried, it didn’t work for him either. And I’m done with you.
”
2. Present yourself well in the run up to Oscar (no messy divorces, breakups, sex tapes or public displays of aggression)”
You forgot Oscar Whoring Schmaltz such as Jamie`s Deceased Granny, Charlize`s Homicidal Mommy, Hilary`s Trailer Park,etc. That kind of talk show shit really helped them seal the deal.
You’re an idiot.
I don’t care if Ngor won without prior acting, just like I don’t care if Hudson won without it, or if the no armed man from The Best Years of Our Lives won one, or Sidibe won without prior acting. I can’t separate Mo’Nique from her shitty career. She shouldn’t have an Oscar like Jamie Foxx, or Gweneth Paltrow, or Roberto Benigini shouldn’t have one.
Rourke was given a pass because he actually was in good films and acted great before he wanted to do his whole boxing career. There’s a reason why actors like Downey Jr. and Pitt reference him as an inspiration. She shouldn’t be awarded, I’m sorry. And really Afrika know what prejudice means before you start spewing dribble. To correlate, or insinuate, that someone is racist because they don’t think Mo’Nique shouldn’t get an Oscar is irresponsible. It’s dangerous. It’s stupid.
And you started the argument, look up and you directly confronted me like you always do. I’m surprised you would challenge me for the umpteenth time I thought you’d grow up.
“My sister’s favorite films since childhood have been “M” and “Metropolis,” and we grew up in ‘da hood’ without cable! Post-a 500 channel universe is hard to think of it now, but I remember in bigger TV markets that independent and PBS stations would frequently show classic foreign films late at night (a few still do). So it is possible to be exposed to Fellini or Antonioni without going to film school and/or frequenting your local arthouse.” – filmfemme
OMG filmfemme, you are my HERO. Well said; AD needs more people like you and Mr. Parsons. And please ignore this fool calling you an idiot for expressing your views.
The fact that a complicated and highly unlikely chain of events can be invented to help explain a jarring scene in a movie doesn’t help alleviate the simple objective perception that the scene is a speed bump that feels out of place to some people and ruins the flow of the movie for them.
If it feels wrong to some people then it’s a sore thumb, no matter what fancy band-aid you try to stick on it.
Of all the channels I would expect to be tuned in on the TV at Precious’ house, PBS would be my last guess. And besides, I have PBS on all the time and I’ve never seen a foreign film broadcast, ever — not for the past 10 or 20 years.
I see foreign language films on IFC and Sundance. Do you seriously think Precious and her family can afford those on their cable package?
filmfemme, I respect your personal experience and have no reason to doubt it. But I’d suggest that if your sister’s favorite movies growing up were Metropolis and M, then she has very little in common with Precious.
filmfemme’s point shows that though it is rare for people like precious to come across these arthouse foreign films, it is not an impossibility. Also, dreaming about scenarios present in foreign films does not mean you are an expert in that discipline. Hell, she might have just seen some clips of some random foreign film at some random place and the images captivated her imagination and lingered in her mind. I think you guys are overanalyzing this.
The point in question is, “Does Lee Daniels sometimes indulge in clumsy devices that undercut the sense of reality he’s otherwise so meticulous about replicating?”
The same sort of thing happened in Frost/Nixon. Nixon was in his study consulting with advisors about the upcoming interview with David Frost. One of Nixon’s aides comes in the room, and interrupts. He lets Nixon know that there’s something on TV he might want to see.
He crosses the room to the TV. Turns it on. It’s already tuned in to a channel where David Frost is stepping up to a microphone, for an on-the-street interview as he’s leaving a Broadway play. The TV news guy asks Frost a question about the upcoming interview.
So here’s what Ron Howard wants us to believe: Nixon’s aide had a premonition, 15 minutes in advance, that David Frost would just happen to be coming out of a NY theater, and just happen to be tapped for an coincidental impromptu interview about Nixon on the sidewalk.
We’re supposed to accept that Nixon’s aide had this vision, had time to go to Nixon’s study and alert him, and had the very good luck to turn on the TV to the exact channel where the TV newsman was just about to begin the interview.
The scene passes really quickly, and this miracle of lucky timing was probably shrugged off by most in the audience as quickly as Faux-Nixon shrugged it off onscreen.
But here’s what it represents: A contrived narrative device that destroys the reality of all the careful set design and vintage ’70’s haircuts. It reveals the screenwriter as somebody who doesn’t hesitate to stoop to any tired cinematic trick that happens to fit his arbitrary manipulation of time and events to create an “oh wow” moment. It’s sloppy and it’s a symptom of reckless twisting of reality as we know it.
It’s bad enough when clunky gimmicks like that are used in a transplanted stage play. But it can have a ruinous effect on a movie that pretends to portray a gritty reality.
“And please ignore this fool calling you an idiot for expressing your views.”
I was calling you the idiot.
And this fool, Afrika, has won every single argument we have had on this site. Mainly because you have the emotions of an uppity 14 year-old girl who sees everything as a black and white issue. You’re a diva. You run away from arguments when you’re losing or you generalize everything. You paint with broad strokes and the valid things you sometimes say are lost due to the rest of the crap you spew. Race is not the issue of everything, Jesus, get over yourself. I couldn’t even fathom that. It’s like someone calling you a homophobe if you didn’t like Angels in America or Milk. I’m not surprised by you though because you were the only person crying about Speilberg buying the right’s to MLK and defending a bigot like Farrakhan.
And Rourke’s career choices cost him the Oscar, just like it will Mo’Nique.(And Rourke gave the best performance last year, in my opinion, male or female)
Can we have a discuss without insulting one another.
chrisw – Please stop being so nasty. I understand you do not like Mo’Nique, but your posts are getting increasingly insulting and mean spirited.
Ryan – I see your point. However for me personally none of the fantasy sequences pulled me out of the film at all. Perhaps mainly because I am so ignorant to the life Precious was living. I am not from Harlem, am not black or living in poverty. In 1987 I was living in a nice house in Bermuda watching ‘Young and the Restless’.
I cannot say if they showed foreign film or not. Perhaps they did. I saw some very strange subtitles films late at night in Bermuda and we only had 3 channels.
But does it really matter? If I were to pull the records of what was shown late night on TV during 1987 and proved this movies was shown would that change your mind about the film?
This detail about the Italian movie is not the deal-breaker issue. I’m glad it didn’t bother you Michael. But it’s bothering other people enough for me to be aware of it from more than one source. It’s great that you still think the movie is perfectly fine with the fantasy scenes jumping out of the corners at you. But for other people it’s a sign of obtrusive directorial flourishes that hurt the movie instead of help it.
I have no idea how I’ll react to it myself. If I like it, I’ll be making PBS excuses too. If I hate it, I’ll be less inclined to explain it away with subtitles that I happened to see one night at an international vacation destination, on an island where wealthy people from all over the world were trying to watch TV.
From what I gather, the fantasy sequence and other really blunt devices used by the director seem to some people that Daniels lost control of the point of view of the movie on several occasions. Instead of telling the story from the eyes and perceptions of Precious consistently, he sometimes inserts his own editorial comments into her world. That’s what we’re hearing. That’s what Guy Lodge and others have written about. And that’s the issue that I’m wondering is a flaw in the conception and execution of the movie.
For you it was obviously not a problem. I’m not trying to disparage your right to feel as pleased as punch with every creative decision Lee Daniels made. I’m just reserving the right for myself and others to maybe not be so blown away and enthralled with all his ornamentation, ok?
Directors tell grim and grungy stories all the time without feeling the need to accent them with jolting cinematic tricks. Lee Daniels chose not to go that route. Maybe the result was perfection for you. But maybe what he added by trying to do something flashy ended up being flaws for some people.
Ryan, I can see why people feel that way. I guess I am lucky that these fantasy sequences gave me an insight to how an abused person escapes from the abuse. I have followed up with social workers and counsellors who have said that people, especially children, have great ability to mentally escape the abuse (in Twin Peaks, Laura Palmer saw a monster so she didn’t have to see her father abusing her).
Whether this works for all viewers in the film is personal. I think what Lee Daniels has tried to do, has worked.
I urge you to watch the Katie Couric interview with Sapphire. Engaging stuff if you have 45 minutes to spare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5506X9tVwH4&feature=channel
Just re read this and it reads back rather idiotic. Twin Peaks was used as another example in cinema.
What works for you is apparently working just as well for about 90% of the people who see Precious, Michael, and that’s impressive. I don’t begrudge anybody their enjoyment of any movie.
I’m just a really hard case when I feel like I’m being emotionally manipulated and brutally pummeled. That’s why I can’t stand Crash and Million Dollar Baby. I’ll be happy if I find Daniels uses his talents with more grace and finesse than those movies.
My idea of honest and moving portrayals of the misery of the underprivileged are movies like Ballast and Killer of Sheep. Neither needed to show their characters in a fantasy rap video in order to express their dreams of escape.
I see your point Ryan and raise you this.
I did not like ‘Crash’ and ‘Million Dollar Baby’ for those exact reasons.
I hope you love ‘Precious’, for me there was no false notes.
I didn’t find a fault with the rap dream. It was a little cliche, but it didn’t take me out of the movie. If someone is bothered by that then they’re just nick picking the/a movie.
Although it’s not realistic for Italian Neorealism to be in this film, it shouldn’t bother anyone. It’s just the director probably showing his influences on his film. It’s like in In Bruges when Touch of Evil is on the television and they have that one shot of Fiennes and Gleason on the phone discussing Ferrel’s death. It’s an homage. Is it realistic, absolutely not, but a director should be given a pass if he/she wants to do that.
“I have no idea how I’ll react to it myself. If I like it, I’ll be making PBS excuses too..” – Ryan Adams
It’s a little unfair to label someone’s narration of a portion of their childhoold as “PBS excuses” don’t you think? And how do you know for a fact that PBS and independent TV stations didn’t show movies like “Metroplis” when filmfemme and her sister were kids?
Michael Parsons,
Nice blog man especially your coverage on Precious. I am very very excited for this movie.
P.S
Where did Mariah Carey’s buzz go? wasn’t there talk about a best supporting actress nomination?
Hey Afrika,
Thanks! You could say I am obsessed! I am even attempting to contact Sapphire to discuss some things.
As for Mariah. I feel she is deserving (from what I have seen thus far and considering the category has nominated people for less screen time) but the screen time issue may stop her.
Had she been boosted a little, then she would definitely be in for a shot. However there was no artistic need to beef up the character more than they already did.
Still it could happen. It depends on how much the Academy embrace the film.
Very true. Regardless, she’s come a long way from Glitter and I’m proud of her.
And now… the BLOWBACK!!
1) chrisw: OK. We get it. You hate Mo’Nique with a passion. Whatever. It’s America. But seriously dude, you need to CALM. DOWN. And yes, Mickey Rourke was a great actor in some great films in his younger days, but my point was that folks like to pick and choose what makes a person worthy or unworthy of admiration or reward. Rourke lost because 1) he pissed off TOO many people in Hollywood for no good reason, and more importantly, 2) Sean Penn was better.
If the majority of Oscar voters feel that Mo’Nique gave the best performance of a supporting actress this year (and obviously that’s subjective), then she should win the Oscar. Period.
2) Ryan: Gee, thanks for the condescension! I just got off the phone with my sister, who confirmed that she saw both films on WYCC, a PBS station in Chicago. So… what was that about the “PBS excuse” again? Also, I find it perplexing that you’re so adamant about badmouthing this scene and you haven’t seen the film yet!
This shouldn’t have to be spelled out on a blog dedicated to film, but obviously Lee Daniels is taking advantage of a little thing called dramatic license. Narrative filmmakers do it all. the. damn. time! Even documentarians use dramatizations and things like animation and graphics to tell the story to make it…hmmm… I don’t know… visually interesting. Does it always work? Of course not (Did we really need the “toads-falling-out-of-the-sky-like-in-Psalms” scene in “Magnolia?!” I say no). I may see “Precious” and think the whole thing is a piece of crap. But I have respect for filmmakers who take chances, even if they may occasionally fall on their faces doing it.
Finally, I just finished reading “Push,” in which Precious says several times she wishes she was like one of those pretty girls in the music videos, or that she wished she was white. It seems to me that with these fantasy sequences Daniels is trying to stay faithful to the book.
And on that note, I’m out until I’ve seen the movie.
I’m calm now. I’m just not letting anyone call me a racist, sorry. I’m entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled yours. I said she was good, I said she should be nominated, I just want to see one more performance, that’s all. Kind of like a taste test. I want to see more. When actors like Oldman, or Plummer, or Jeffery Wright don’t even have nominations it bothers me when a much lesser actor wins an Oscar. I’m not into the whole rewarding someone when they finally do something meaningful unless it’s a debut performance. Like Sidibe, I would have no problem with her winning an Oscar, even if the rest of her career is terrible. I know it’s warped thinking, but that’s how I feel.
Well said filmfemme, very well said
I am from Chicago and I specifically remember watching those films on WYCC late at night circa 1987. And I know tons of girls that are like Precious that watched them too…they may have not understood what was being said or going on completely but they watched. And in the scene since Precious can’t read, she interprets her mother the way she really is even though she is speaking much softer. So Precious actually doesn’t completely get what she’s watching.
chrisw. Just one question. How do you feel about the fact Hillary Swank won an Oscar for ‘Boys Don’t Cry’ when her previous filmography was pretty lack luster (there are many people who feel she was not deserving that year as well)
What I said was:
“filmfemme, I respect your personal experience and have no reason to doubt it. But I’d suggest that if your sister’s favorite movies growing up were Metropolis and M, then she has very little in common with Precious.”
In what way does that mean that I doubt filmfemme’s sister saw M & Metropolis on PBS? And filmfemme, I mean that your sister had excellent taste as a kid. How is that condescending?
It’s evidence for me that your experience as kids has little in common with the situation Precious experienced.
To Micahel Parsons, Africa and some others here who have seen Precious, I have to ask- would the movie work as well without these sequences? Is is harmless indulgence on director’s part or something that lifts the material?
chrisw, what if Mo’Nique goes on to give several great performances after Precious but never manages to get nominated again? If AMPAS had stuck to rewarding a particular performance instead of the body of work and other factors then we would not have all those overdue losers.
Not too thrilled she has two Oscars. It bothers me she acted well in just two movies, she wasn’t that good in Insomnia, and got rewarded for it. But we have to accept it just like we accept Paltrow, Gooding Jr., Basinger, etc. However, I am not the biggest fan of American Beauty so I don’t know who I personally would’ve given it too. And although she was great in M$B, I thought Staunton was better. Are you trying to get somewhere? Who asks a weird question like that?
dela, Afrika has not seen Precious. I have.
And to answer your question, if Mo’Nique gave several great performances she would most certainly get nominated again, and probably win. If Hanson could get nominated for Benjamin Button, or if Judi Dench can win for Shakespeare, Mo’Nique would be nominated. This is a personal choice and a personal opinion. There is no right or wrong answer to this. To myself, and only to myself, I can’t reconcile Mo’Nique the Oscar winner and Peter O’Toole the non-Oscar winner.
And don’t dabble in what ifs. We could what if everything and anything.
chrisw, my bad. I thought Africa had mentioned in one of his previous postings (around the Cannes ff time) that he had seen Precious.
Nomination is not necessarily a guarantee for stellar work. Oldman, Plummer, KST last year, Dennis Quaid among others have been overlooked in the past.
dela – Personally, I felt the flashback sequences worked very well. The audience needed it, and Precious needed it. It did not take me out of the film at all, it actually further engrossed me in the film.
chrisw – she hasn’t even been nominated yet, chillax dude. And for your “if Mo’Nique gave several great performances she would most certainly get nominated again, and probably win.” bit. I agree with dela. You may personally have something against Mo’Nique, and hate the idea of her being nominated or winning and that is your own agenda.
For me, I always let the individual work speak for itself, regardless of whose work it is or what they had done before. Something I learned from the awards race two years ago – and had to eat humble pie.
As for you asking “who asks weird questions like that?” comment. I was asking a question in relation to you judging someone by their body of work. I get the feeling you are on the defensive and still being rather insulting and petty. I love a good discussion, but typing arguments is a waste of time.
Peace out.
dela, you are right. As much as Quaid stinks, he tore up Far From Heaven. He probably should have won that year, and he wasn’t even nominated…shit happens.
And I didn’t answer your question from before. The film doesn’t need the sequences but it didn’t enhance or….the word has slipped me…lessen the movie. It didn’t hurt or help the story, visualization, theme, etc. Although one could argue that it hurt the mood of the film.
I haven’t said anything insulting or petty since post#95. And I’m not on the defensive, just explaining my position now.
I have to add this just as a side note. I saw Two Women by Vittorio De Sica, a dubbed version; back in the 60’s probably within two years after Loren won the Oscar. I can’t remember the date but I do remember seeing it because that film at that time was incredible. I will never forget the impression I had of Loren on her knees in the dirt screaming at the GI’s in the passing jeep. I had to be 14 or 15 at the time. And there was no cable then. So the argument about the neo realistic film clips really doesn’t cut it for me. Sorry bout that. I remember seeing “The Garden of the Finzi Contini’s” on PBS and “Umberto D”. I really think the film clip thing is a non starter.
OK…I guess I lied about being done.
@Ryan: seriously, are you dense or you just desperately need to be right? Whether my sister and I and Precious led similar lives has no bearing – I mean, NONE – on whether said fictitious character would have seen Italian films on TV. May I remind you that your original point (#41) was [direct quote]: “How many foreign language films do you think Precious has seen or even heard about? How can she dream about something she’s never come across?”
Other people besides me have said, yes, it IS possible that she would have come across them, so that point has been made and it’s done.
By the way, that entire post and your “PBS excuse” quip = condescending.
Finally, since you brought it up: Was myself or my sister on welfare, illiterate or sexually abused by our parents, no (thank God). But we did grow up in working-class neighborhoods, was raised by a single mother, and felt like we had to justify our existences as Black girls who yearned for lives beyond the hood EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Just like Precious.
“@Ryan: seriously, are you dense or you just desperately need to be right? “
I could ask you the same question, filmfemme. The difference is that I’m aware there is no such thing as who’s “right” when it comes to each of our individual reactions to what feels normal and what feels artificial.
The fact that people who love movies enough to hang out at a movie blog are the same type of people who watched PBS and sought out foreign films in their youth doesn’t surprise me.
qwiggles (one of the few people here who’ve seen the movie) says Precious tells her teacher that she and her partner “talk like the women in the TV shows she doesn’t watch.” I don’t think she means her teacher is speaking Italian with subtitles. She means she doesn’t even watch shows in English that are over her head.
For me, her lack of English comprehension and her desire to read subtitles sound like a complete contradiction in interests and language processing skills. No, for me, a fantasy based on Italian Neorealism feels much more like something Lee Daniels would cook up in his own head, and not at all like something that Precious herself would key into. It’s the director projecting his own experience and interests onto a character whose circumstances don’t match.
That’s just me. You can go pull out your back issues of TV Guide from 1987 and wave them in my face all you want, but I can’t imagine Precious flipping through the channels in search of validation and pausing for even an instant at a black & movie with subtitles.
My god, not even the average Academy member can be bothered to watch a movie with subtitles or vote for one until a tiny special committee of Oscar elitists leads them by the hand.
Is it statistically conceivable that Precious could possibly ever have been in the same room with a TV broadcasting Two Women? ok, I’ll concede that the laws of physics allow that. It’s also possible that she could’ve won $30 million in the Powerball Lottery, or got off at the wrong subway stop where she meets and marries Ted Danson. But those events would have thrown the movie off — for me.
I don’t buy it.
@Ryan: the fact that you have to be snarky and deflect the flaws in your argument about, again, a film YOU HAVEN’T SEEN YET, answers my question.
Ryan, I understand where you’re coming from, but it really doesn’t hurt the movie. It’s not realistic at all, I personally don’t believe that would happen, but Daniels should be allowed to use dramatic license and pay homage to his influences. If it was terribly done it would be one thing, but it wasn’t so I don’t have a problem with it.
She really wasn’t watching it in the film. It was just on and she was eating so she just looked at it. Her mother was forcing her to eat a huge plate of food and instead of focusing on her mother or even the food she watched the movie. Makes perfect sense. She didn’t just decide to watch a movie in Italian, she was forced to sit in the room and she had no other escape but to watch the tv.
Quote: “Precious wins $30 million in the Powerball Lottery & gets off at the wrong subway stop where she meets and marries Ted Danson. ”
I will pay to see this Powerball Precious sequel.
Ted Danson proved already how he can see past somebody’s outward appearance and appreciates a black woman’s inner booty.
Ryan, you are so going to go into the film and when that scene comes up it will drive you crazy! LOL.
The scene makes perfect sense, she was projecting her situation onto the TV. The only flight of fancy is that her and Mo’Nique speak italian – which granted, she wouldn’t even know about.
In my fantasies I speak perfect Spanish and me and Penelope laugh and laugh and laugh. I totally get the point of the scene, just don’t think about it too much before you see the film, otherwise it may ruin it for you. And ignore what everyone else is saying, you may begin to hate the movie before you even give it a chance.
By the way – Precious and Ted Danson – Hysterical. You so need to photoshop a picture now.
I’m already preparing the outline for a master’s thesis, Michael. “Internal Cross-Cultural Justifications for the DeSica Ex Machina”
Thanks for realizing that I’m not taking this role as devil’s advocate too seriously. I’ll end up loving the movie more if I go into it with a healthy ‘tude of skepticism.
I completely get the intent of the scene too, and I’m usually all about the elaborate directorial flourishes. The only thing I’ll regret now is the absence of the Ted Danson cameo.
This was an interesting thread of comments.
chrisw – You seem to have named a lot of actors unworthy of Oscar – and a lot of them are black – hmmmmmmmm (Henson, Gooding Jr., Mo’Nique) You seem to like Hudson though so I will let you off.
I do not understand two things. First, people getting agitated and argumentative over a movie they have no seen, only based on reviews they have read. Secondly, why argue over a fantasy sequence? IT IS FANTASY!!!
Michael – I too loved the film, it seems people are really looking hard to dislike it, and I agree it may comes from a darker place. Sure it will not be everyones preference but it seems people are wanting to hate it before seeing it.
To end. This is a GREAT site!! Love these discussions.
Do not kid Ryan. I am doing A LOT of research on the subjects this film has brought up.
I may as well go back to university – I have even had a black female feminist intellectual tell me “I am not prepared to discuss this with you”.
It is all so fascinating.
“chrisw – You seem to have named a lot of actors unworthy of Oscar – and a lot of them are black – hmmmmmmmm (Henson, Gooding Jr., Mo’Nique) You seem to like Hudson though so I will let you off.”
I also seem to name a lot of white actors also. Read. And who likes Cuba? Nobody. Diane Lane shouldn’t be there regardless of the performance…which was just ok to me. Jon Voight for Ali? Jeff Bridges for The Contender? And I love Jeff Bridges. Juliette Binoche for Chocolat? Chocolat? I love Meryl Streep but should she have been nominated for Music of the Heart? Benigni, and I adore Life is Beautiful…if you wanted to give him an Oscar give it for his screenplay, not acting. Helen Hunt winning for As Good As It Gets, which was a great entertaining movie, but come on. James Woods in Ghosts of Mississippi? Tommy Lee Jones over Fiennes for The Fugitive? Tim Roth for Rob Roy? Paul Scofield getting nominated over Fiennes, and most importantly Turturro, in Quiz Show? Should I whip out my Ocar book and tell you who I think should’ve and shouldn’t be nominated, or win, in every year? You’re looking for something that isn’t there.
Dude, you need to take a sedative. I would have thought the Hudson comment would have gotten across the fact I was joking.
Really didn’t mean to strike a nerve. Perhaps the obvious ‘
‘ should have followed.
I do not think you are racist, perhaps only prejudice towards Mo’Nique (or anyone else who has not pursued a “high brow” career path)
God know I cannot stand Renee Zellweger, However should she pull an ‘Nurse Betty’ out again I may have to reconsider.
I mean Geena Davis and Marisa Tomei were in crap before their Oscar wins. They should take them back!
P.S. It thought Mo was great fun in ‘Good Fences’
I’m sorry man, it’s just yesterday I thought I was being attacked so if I get any sense of it I’m going for the throat right away, right, wrong, or indifferent. I’m sorry once again.
LOL @ Michael Parsons dreaming about speaking Spanish with Penelope Cruz lol
I always wished I could speak Spanish then I would have French, English and SPnaish under my belt. That would be awesome. I always wished my traditional language was a world renowned language just so I could brag a little lol
So, like Precious, I fantasize about speaking in languages I do not speak. The other night I had a dream I was in a film with Michelle Yeoh speaking mandarin. It made perfect sense at the time, but come awakening, I had no idea.
Sometimes, in order to escape we go beyond what we know to find solace.
“I fantasize about speaking in languages I do not speak. The other night I had a dream I was in a film with Michelle Yeoh speaking mandarin.”
Along with your fantasy of speaking Spanish with Penelope Cruz, I’m beginning to see a pattern to your fantasies, Michael. They seem to have less and less to do with language fluency and more about some other lingual skills altogether.
Oh Ryan – you had to go there
We were talking about (i kid you not) the easiest way to run up bamboo. All perfectly innocent.
There are a number of things in this thread that are rather interesting. First the premise that for some reason no one participating could possibly have come from the same “world” that Precious comes from and find ways to lift themselves from that world via fantasy into another. Quite the contrary. And you don’t have to black to be able to relate to that life experience.
Someone here in another thread and I think it was Ryan who said when the discussions about Precious began that we should not assume that we know each other or our history. Yes we might “realize” facts about each other by what’s stated in our comments but how do you know that anyone here hasn’t been through the same situations that Precious has been through. We don’t. So before we start tagging commentors with “you can’t relate” we should be careful.
Also performances do not stand alone. They are part of an end result. There are definitely performances that we will always shake our heads about and other performances where we will say wtf was that all about, and then there will be those that will be etched in our minds forever.
De Havilland should have won her third Oscar for
“The Snake Pit”. I would have given Hepburn a fifth by including “Alice Adams”. I think Loren’s performance in “Marriage Italian Style” is a helluva a lot better than Julie Andrews in the “Sound of Music”. I can still recall Triosi’s performance in “Il Postino”. I thought Staunton in “Vera Drake” was amazing. Oscars are not awarded just by a single performance sadly. And we all know that. You can rifle through Oscar history and shake your head. I think Daniel Day Lewis is a amazing but I couldn’t sit through “And there will be Blood”. I walked out of “Young Frankenstein”…after about the third time of Cloris Leachman and the screaming horse I’d had enough. To this day I still have not sat through that film without turning it off. Go figure. And I also hate “Annie Hall”.
Sometimes the performance that wins is a summary of a career, sometimes it’s because of the entire film. Begnini won because they loved the film not because of his performance. But I have to admit I sat here praying he would win because even with the subject matter you just didn’t get trapped in the “Schindler’s List” syndrome.
So Monique has a rotten resume then along comes that one chance and it happens. It’s that old joke ..I got a barn…you can sing…she can sew ..someone else can paint scenery…let’s put on a show”. But like I said earlier she needs to hope no one comes along in the next two months who can make everyone forget about Precious and swoon over something else.
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