Remember when no toga & sandal movie ever triumphed at the Oscars… until Gladiator was nominated for 12, and won 5? Remember when no sword & sorcery movie had ever conjured up squat, until the Rings trilogy nabbed a grand total of 17 out of 30 nominations? No serial killer movie ever amounted to much until Silence of the Lambs crept up and shocked audiences out of their socks. No contemporary crime thriller had won Best Picture since The French Connection — until two reinventions blasted to the top, the past two years in a row.
Just because a movie initially presents itself to the public in the pop-culture surface terms of thrilling entertainment, doesn’t preclude it’s ability to go dark and delve deep. The Oscars have been showing us a revitalized willingness to embrace movies made by a generation of filmmakers who grew up in a age when that same sort of street-smart duality hangs on the walls of major museums (Keith Haring, Jean-Michel Basquiat to name two).¬† Over the next few days we can talk about the reasons why The Dark Knight could be the movie to rewrite some outdated Oscar predicting rules. For now, bear with me and consider this list of possibilities:
- Best Supporting Actor • Heath Ledger
- Best Cinematography • Wally Pfister
- Best Editing • Lee Smith
- Best Music • James Newton Howard, Hans Zimmer
- Best Art Direction • Nathen Crowley
- Best Make-up
- Best Visual Effects
- Best Sound
- Best Sound Mixing
Rationales, after the cut.
ok, those last three or four listed are virtual certainties, and the one at the top is too. Prospects for the other four feel Oscar-worthy to me, but I realize the final tally depends entirely on what competition rises to rival them over the next few months. We have a fairly good idea what’s ahead though, so it’s not unreasonable to foresee nominations in at least three of those five technical categories. Sure, such an impressive collection of nods would stretch a few precedents, but so what?
Here’s how I feel about rules based on patterns of the past: “Things fall apart. The center cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.”
Heath Ledger’s Joker is anarchy incarnate. And The Dark Knight is the best chance in Academy history for a movie based on a graphic novel to be nominated for multiple Oscars (outside the usual 2nd-tier tech categories). If you’re continuing to think of The Dark Knight as a mere “superhero fantasy” then you haven’t seen it yet. Just to name one fascinating aspect among its many deftly polished facets, TDK is an exploration of duality as complex and rich as Mulholland Dr. or Persona. (“Blasphemy!” cry the Bergmaniacs. “Remind me again how many Oscars nominations did Persona receive,” Batmaniacs reply.)
We’ll look at each category individually as we try to decide whether TDK is big nominews or merely nominoise, but enough justification for now. Outlandish expectations, you think? Tell that to Warner Bros when their FYC ads appear next year, suggesting all 9 of these categories — especially when they add Best Director and Best Picture to the mix.
Excellent call on the SAG awards, Ivan!
Never expected a superhero movie to have so much evenly distributed ensemble balance
NBR too (getting more and more respectable and sophisticated every year — in spite of The Bucket List anomaly.)
NYFC… I dunno, I always get them mixed up with the other NY Film critics group. Which one has all the haters? 😎
consider…
SAG AWARDS
ensemble
supporting actor / Heath Ledger
DGA, WGA (Adapted) ACE, ASC, CAS
USC Scripter
NBR, NYFC, LAFC
If Al Pacino was nominated (as Best Supporting Actor) for his comic turn in 1990’s Dick Tracy, so can Heath. The tech categories nod are assured though.
I just saw this today…wow. I really think it has the chance to sweep at the Oscar’s. If not in wins, at least in nominations.
No it isn’t quite as artsy as No Country for Old Men, or as real as There Will Be Blood, but it is a damn fine movie. It is one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. If the Lord of the Rings Trilogy can win, this will. I’m really hoping the Academy skips formalities, and awards Heath Ledger the Best Actor award, instead of the Supporting Actor. Aaron Eckhart did a terrific job as Harvey Dent, and I could see him getting at least nominated for Supporting Actor.
The screenplay was brilliant, and the directing and cinematography are absolutely stunning. Thumbs up all around.
Jeez…I think I’m gonna go watch it again tomorrow.
The Dark Knight is every bit the movie that The Departed was. I think it’s as good as The Silence of the Lambs too. It’s better, considerably, than A Beautiful Mind, Gladiator, Crash and The English Patient.
There is no reason it should not be in consideration for Best Picture and Best Director.
And I wouldn’t mind if Maggie Gyllennhaal made the cut too.
It is obvious MovieWatcher, but for the sake of argument, let’s use the new Bond feature. QofS is directed by a very well respected Marc Forster and has Craig, Dench, and Amalric. You could also say that Casino Royale was better than Batman Begins. QofS had pedigree too. Is it such a stretch that this Bond movie could be better TDK?
But it’s directed by Christopher Nolan. Is it really such a stretch that TDK comes with more credibility than say, a James Bond movie (yeah, I’m still puzzled over why that’s being pimped here). But there’s also Christian Bale, Heath Ledger, a gravity to the subject matter that clearly goes beyond the comic book. I’m not sure why it’d be a surprise if TDK got nods. In special effects, cinematography, editing. It’s true, this film is a big summer movie, but it’s got a pedigree nonetheless.
But then again, I thought this was obvious. *shrugs*
Although not a masterpiece, it is close to it, this movie is bar-none the best superhero movie. If some of the fall/winter films fall, I think the academy will snub some films to get The Dark Knight into its final line-up. The academy needs a film like this so it can bring in ratings. It’s going to be a high mountain to climb though. Burn After Reading, Blindness, Body of Lies, Miracle at St. Anna, The Changeling, Quantum of Solace, The Soloist, The Road, Austrailia, Frost/Nixon, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Revolutionary Road, Defiance, Doubt, and Gran Torino all haven’t come out yet. And isn’t Appalossa coming out this year? Plus we have Wall-E. That’s a long list of potentially good-great films. But like someone said before, you just get this gut feeling a film is going to get nominated. I somewhat feel that way for TDK, but I also get that feeling with films like Austrailia and Revolutionary Road. Can you imagine a line-up of The Road, The Dark Knight, Wall-E, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, and The Changeling? This should be another great year for film, just like last year, something that hasn’t happen in a while, so we should all be thankful. I’m just saying I’m loving all the best picture hype, but we still have a long list of movies to go through before it can actually materialize. Do I want it to be nominated? In my not-so-important opinion I would say this and Wall-E should get in, but I can’t cement it. Let’s just hope TDK at least gets 8-10 to bring in those viewers.
I agree that the idea of Ledger going lead is ridiculous. Not that there haven’t been cases in the past where supporting/lead players are category switched to avoid conflict with another sure-to-be-nommed performance, but I found Ledger to be fantastic, exciting, and definitely supporting. I also agree that, actually, Eckhart would be a phenomenal candidate for a lead actor campaign, if only because Bale, while good, was surprisingly absent from most of the movie. The problem for Eckhart is, unfortunately, that is character, despite all the raves, really wasn’t all that logically there. I understand it’s hard to show character transformation in 2.5 hours, but I never really bought his good to evil turn, no matter how much they tried to foreshadow it. It’s not the actor’s fault, but rather the script’s…so I doubt he’ll end up with a nomination. And I agree that Oldman was terrific, but unless TDK manages a best picture nomination I think his chances of sneaking in are zero.
Also, all the Ledger fanboys should realize that an Oldman nomination would, if anything, lessen the chances of a Heath win. So be careful what you wish for.
Oh, and has anyone noticed how The Dark Knight is currently sitting at NUMBER ONE on IMDB’s Top 250?!? It has a 9.7… it will obviously go down from there, but not even No Country was that high last year, it was in the 20’s at first. Popularity DOES mean something when it has critical support behind it
Well all I need to say is that Richard Roeper, on his show suggested that it deserves Best Picture consideration. It is not that difficult to believe that people will count it out and discredit it, but in the end, the Oscars will go head over heels for it just like everyone else has. I truly think this is a believable list…
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Screenplay (adapted?)
Best Supporting Actor (Ledger)
Best Cinematography
Best Art Direction
Best Original Score
Best Visual Effects
Best Sound
Best Sound Editing
Best Makeup
Best Editing
Thats 12 nominations. In a lesser year I would also think Aaron Eckhart and Gary Oldman would deserve consideration. Gary Oldman could very well get a “Paul Giamatti a la Cinderella Man” nomination where its not altogether deserved, but given the massive array of past greatness without a nomination, they give him one for a popular movie… you know what they say in this kind of thing… anything’s possible
just wanted to throw this out there… why not costume design… joker suit is perfection. new batsuit was genius
backlash started before the film was released… it just doesnt have a strong base… : )
QUOTE: “TDK is an exploration of duality as complex and rich as Mulholland Dr. or Persona. (”Blasphemy!” cry the Bergmaniacs. “Remind me again how many Oscars nominations did Persona receive,” Batmaniacs reply.)”
Most ridiculous statement of the year, with all due respect.
Oscar nods are what define quality now?
TDK is a very tight film, but these fanboy bursts are really annoying. Backlash will come sooner than everybody thinks.
Agreed, Ledger is 100% supporting. It would be ridiculous to consider him lead (plus he’d probably have a tougher time winning as lead actor, too).
no way was the Joker a lead. he didnt even have a character arc. if there was a second lead it was Aaron Eckhart, who delivered a hell of a performance
Our good buddy Nathanial Rogers at The Film Experience has updated his Oscar charts to include nominations for The Dark Knight in 7 categories.
Not only does Nat have Christopher Nolan pre-nommed for Best Director, he has him tagged as the front-runner.
I will say this: I always get a gut feeling when I watch certain films that are up for Oscar consideration. And I definitely felt it watching Heath’s performance. It went beyond my expectations. I thought his nomination for “Brokeback Mountain” was well deserved but I felt no sense of him “deserving” to be nominated posthumous for the end of what would have been an amazing career. But after watching “The Dark Knight” I can honestly admit that he is worthy of any accolades he may receive during this awards cycle. I must also mention consideration for Christopher Nolan for Best Director. After receiving a DGA nomination and yet not being nominated at the Academy Awards (for “Memento”), the Director’s Branch may want to award Nolan with a nomination considering the critical and soon-to-be commercial success of “The Dark Knight”. Many have already herald this as the greatest super-hero movie made in recent history surpassing the high marks of “Spider-Man II” and “Iron Man” (the most critically acclaimed “super-hero” movies up to this time). I wouldn’t underestimate this film in terms of award consideration.
Have you guys confirmed that the studio intends to push Ledger in Supporting rather than Lead? I think he could be a contender in either and am curious what the studio’s stance is and whether they’ve revealed it.
Personally I think it was pretty obviously a lead, but in the modern Oscar game I guess that’s irrelevant.
Kris Tapley has pointed out that Harvey Dent’s two-face effects might muddy the waters for make-up since it’s CGI. I’d like to think that just because it’s not part of the equation that shouldn’t detract from the Joker’s make-up, which was compelling and transformative, and so central to the film.
And then there’s the mayor’s eyeliner 😎
Kris mentioned the upcoming aging makeup (he doesn’t mention titles, but we know he’s thinking of The Reader and Benjamin Button)
However I think Benjamin Button will be problematic too, since it sees to heavily CGI as well.
Jason, what do you mean “lack character”?
Echoes from Oscar history:
The Exorcist – 10 nominations
(pop supernatural horror epic, 1973)
Star Wars -10 nominations
(pop sci-fi epic, 1977)
Raiders of the Lost Ark – 8 nominations
(pop pulp-actioneer epic, 1981)
The Lord of the Rings trilogy – 30 nominations
(pop adventure fantasy epic, 2001-2003)
The Dark Knight – ?
(pop comic hero epic, 2008)
I’m probably leaving out some significant missing links (long dry spell for pop artistic epics for 20 years after Raiders)
I am not the only nay-sayer. I don’t mean to knock it for it’s success. The film lacked character. For a super-hero movie, for me, that doesn’t work. I respect other people’s opinions who think its a great movie. I just respectfully disagree.
Well lets say it does get all the noms Ryan proposed it would, which I don’t really even see as a stretch, as well as a WELL DESERVED direction nom for Chris Nolan… that would make 10.
1. Director
2. Supporting Actor (lock)
3. Cinematography (lock)
4. Editing
5. Score (lock if eligible)
6. Art Direction
7. Make-up (lock)
8. Visual Effects
9. Sound (lock)
10. Sound Mixing (lock)
The current record for most nominations without a best picture nod is 9, for “They Shoot Horses, Dont They” in 1969… is that an intriguing thought or what?
HOLY APE SHIT BATMAN! This movie is just too big to be ignored! I would love for this to be one of the first movie in years to get into the double digit nominations!
Oh, and speaking of IMDb… guess which gangster epic just got knocked out of the #1 slot on the Top 250.
Senator Pat Geary: [as they’re watching the performer at the sex club] Freddie, that thing can’t be real.
Fredo Corleone: Sure it is. That’s why they call him the Bat-man.
Just got back from from another swim among the packed throngs at the multiplex. For me, a second viewing of The Dark Knight expands the film’s impact and solidifies its strengths. Nuances in Heath Ledger’s performance that I missed in the tsunami the first time around bloom like petals spreading on second more calm appraisal. Every gesture, every tic, every twist and flinch. There needs to be a dictionary cataloging the range of his body language.
Also realized in conversations with friends later how little TDK fatigue we feel. Amazing, considering how the buzz has been brimming for weeks. One of the most skillful marketing jobs I’ve ever seen. Somehow managing to saturate to every corner of my consciousness with ever being oppressive or aggravating.
Funny observation I saw on another message board. Some guy had gone to IMDb to watch the TDK trailer again, and the sponsored video starts up — and kicks off with an ad for The Dark Knight! This TDK trailer is brought to you by — TDK. ha!
HOLY CRAP BATMAN!! Finally a superhero movie everyone can be proud of. Oh, boy…if WALL-E and THE DARK KNIGHT, my favorite films (so far) of the year become Best Picture nominees (one being the second animated film ever to be nominated for the top prize and the other one the first and only superhero/comic book adaptation), I am so NOT missing the Oscars next year! Not that I ever do, but next year…a few more…heck, A WHOLE LOT MORE OF PEOPLE will actually tune in. I can’t wait!
I really that that we need to temper the Best Picture and Best Director buzz (probably Best Screenplay too). Does it have a chance? Sure it does. But I still think it’s a small chance. I think The Bourne Ultimatum last year was a lot more Oscar friendly than Dark Knight, and it was just as good, but it only managed technical nods (granted, it won all it’s categories, but still).
yes… incredible…it also now hold the record for the highest grossing opening day with $66 million knocking Spiderman 3 down…
“But Godfather, how will you make him step down from #1?”
“I’ll make him an offer he can’t refuse.”
Haha… this film just reached #1 on IMDb’s Top 250. I’ve NEVER seen any film replace “The Godfather” on #1 as long as I’ve used IMDb. Jesus.
Ted, you might be right.
I mean look at RichardA, a decent guy that I’ve jabbed as a New York cinema elite who’s reviews are more a hitlist than anything, and you know what? His review for TDK was similarly a rundown of everything he hated in it, then ended with basically “but I liked it. 7/10.”
Now that’s impressive.
I could not disagree more. Normally when I (and probably many of the other people on this board) go see a summer flick such as The Dark Knight… the visual effects take us aback but the story just leaves us saying,”eh great effects but the plot was weak.” This may be the first film of this genre that has left me impacted. I find myself believing that when people have stated how they dislike the film (and I am NOT by ANY means saying this goes for you two because I’m sure it doesn’t) they just want to be the ones who can break from the mainstream and diss it just because it’s been praised so much.
I find myself to be one of the more honest people about movies. This one… was fantastic. I won’t be surprised if it ends up with a whole slew of awards. This one just broke the barrier and blew 2008 out of the water.
I agree with Steve. I was way bummed after the movie last night. There is too much hype to live up to. There is no way this movie will get nominated for awards outside the tech categories. Its just not that good across the board. With the exception of some interesting VFX work, no category was really awards calibre.
7 – 10 Oscar Nominations.
Screenplay, Cinematography, Editing, Sound Mixing & Effects Editing, Makeup, Art Direction, Supp. Actor (All locks with the screenplay as the only that will have a challenge to get in)
Picture, Director (Long shots)
Steve Mason on Fantasy Moguls is talking about The Dark Knight as a Best Picture nominee. I’m on board for that. Inevitably The Dark Knight will gross north of 400 million, can it make a run on its mega-box office success into finally getting a big box office hit as an Oscar contender.
Once the box office dust settles, people will remember this movie for being Ledger’s last movie. It is a highly mediocre piece of work even when only judging it as a popcorn movie. There is absolutely no character or story development. Sadly, as good as Ledger is and as hard as he is working, his performance is delivered in the service of a under-written part. I am beyond disappointed by the movie and Nolan’s ineptitude as a storyteller. Maybe we should all go back and watch Memento.
Haha good to see a lot of you already said what I did above.
With it being this good and this much of a phenomenon, how do you not justify a Best Picture nomination? And not that the ratings woes of the Oscar telecast should be relevant to who it gives its awards to, it wouldn’t hurt to nominate a blockbuster again.
Ryan, i was thinking about that as well after watching the film. I think that this film has a good chance in getting technical nods specially in the sound part, I believe it contributed a lot on the greatness of the film. Ledger really needs to be taken into consideration. As for the Director? I think Nolan deserve at least a nomination.
I think Jennybee’s comparison of TDK to Titanic is very appropriate. Just check out the Friday box office! A record! We may have the most popular best picture winner on our hands since the big sinking ship!
First of all, great piece, Ryan — before reading the byline I thought to myself, “Sasha the Oscar goddess is doing some great mature thinking here (as usual),” only to scroll up and see your name.
I won’t see TDK ’til Tuesday, but from what I’ve heard, this film has everything going for it. The rules of Oscarworthiness are always changing (Marion Cotillard, anyone?) while at the same time retaining the same intrinsic pattern (Marion Cotillard, anyone?). TDK easily fits, it would appear.
Can’t wait.
I can’t imagine a better film being released this year. I went into the theatre to see if the buzz about Ledger’s performance was true, and came away with the realization that his performance was just a part of the whole of the greatness of this film. Best Picture? Good chance.
I’m very confused about the score eligibility. Last year I never heard that jesse james’ score was deemed ineligible, but it still didn’t get nominated. Into the wild score was credited to three peolpe but it wasn’t deemed ineligble because of that, instead because it was too song based ..(sigh) Can a team of composers get nominated if they really deserve it i mean if their work is equal and both deserve the credit?
Yo creo que solo puede estar nominada a :
Actror de Reparto (Supporting Actor)
Mejor Sonido (Sound)
Mezcla de Sonido (Mixing Sound)
Mejor Edición (Editing)
la fotografia no supera a Batman Begins, por lo tanto no creo que meresca nominacion, El Score es genial por supuesto, pero no creo que sea nominado, años anteriores Da Vinci Code tuvo un score genial, “superior a Dark Knight” y no fue nominado….
Regardless, though, this film definately deserves a Screen Actors Guild Ensemble Award because everyone did a great job
I too think that TDK deserves the nom but this talk about the Academy needing to survive by nominating popular films….TDK and WALL-E may be deserving but that sort of thinking,imo, has led to scores of popular(box office wise) but mediocre films being nominated/winning the top award as it has with the genuinely great ones.
To illustrate my point for every THE GODFATHER, ROTK, THE SOUND OF MUSIC, GONE WITH THE WIND etc all the top grossing films of the year that won the top award and are (once again imo) great movies, for every RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK and ET THE EXTRA TERRESTERIAL films nominated (but should have won) we’ve had THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH, KRAMER VS KRAMER, RAIN MAN and other pictures that largely haven’t stood the test of time and won out over less popular movies that have.
If it happens (TDK and or WALL-E) let every blockbuster/huge hit invited to the dance in the future actually be worthy of competing for the top prize because quite frankly there’ve been so many that weren’t.
Wait, THAT’S why Nick Cave and Warren Ellis were ineligible!? Fuck that. Unbelievable. First Jonny Greenwood gets cut on a technicality and then Cave and Ellis. Ugh. Bastards.
The score eligibility is really confusing me. ANother poster corretly noted above that three composers won the oscar for “The Last Emperor,” and yet the Academy currently disallows a shared nominee between multiple composers to be eligible? I don’t understand the inconsistency.
In my opinion, The Assassination of Jesse James had one of the best soundtracks by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis, but alas, the dual credit disqualified them from even being in the running.
Both The Dark Knight and Kung FU panda have great scores (Hans Zimmer shares both of them) but they are both credited with dual composers. Will the Academy change their silly rules?
I agree with you. In fact, I also wanted No Country or There Will Be Blood to win, mainly the latter. But the GENERAL PUBLIC doesn’t share the same interests. The only movie the average moviegoer might have seen was Juno. If The Dark Knight is really that great then I want it to be nominated for Best Picture. All I’m saying is that the Academy needs it. They need it for their survival.
Noah – Actually, I thought NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN deserved the Oscar, and as well THERE WILL BE BLOOD if that one had won.
All I was pimping for was that BOURNE ULTIMATUM be allowed to the dance, sort of like booking (WARNING: RRA will start smark Pro Wrestling babbling, skip the following words until WARNING IS OVER) Jeff Hardy for a Fatal Fourway Main Event PPV. Everyone knows he won’t get the win or the belt (damn drug suspension), but damn the crowds will love him and he’ll add some fun to the proceedings. (WARNING OVER)
If TDK truely is one of the Top 5 movies of 2007…then it deserves to get an Oscar nod, no matter its genre. Then again, in my view, NO COUNTRY was the first movie since 1993 with SCHINDLER’S LIST where the actual best picture of the year actually won the prize.
I’m seeing the film tonight so I can’t judge whether it deserves any nominations yet.
However, if they do decide to lavish TDK with Oscar nominations — including Picture and Director — the timing is perfect. We all remember the consensus on the last ceremony: The ratings were lower than ever because most of the movies were too obscure, which led many to call for the Academy to go for more mainstream picks like The Bourne Ultimatum. Therefore TDK must seem like a Godsend for the Academy.
They need those numbers. Desperately. God forbid too many people think the Oscars are irrelevant. And even if they only nominate Ledger for Supporting Actor, think how many people will tune in to find out if he’s the first posthumous winner since Peter Finch. But if TDK really is as good as people say, hopefully the blind execs will open their eyes and make the effort to put out good films again. Iron Man was a step in the right direction, keep going!
But perhaps that’s asking too much…
RA, I take it that you sorta liked the movie. 🙂
Can you imagine the Oscar ratings if Dark Knight is nominated for Best Picture? Talk about drawing in a whole new audience. I do think Nolan will be nominated for Best Director, barring a great year for film.
Thanks, Free. I stressed about it when I was composing the post, but after reading the feedback I’m feeling better (and also, reminding myself of the new AD motto)
Thanks for reminding me, I meant to answer something from Friedl (who came around in the Dark of Night and left great comments in a dozen topics) … Friedl, I was wondering who would bring up the ancient roman movies of the 1950’s and ’60’s. I guess the distinction I make that sets those most famous ones apart, is I tend to think of many of the award winners as Biblical epics, or religious theme epics. The Robe, Ben-Hur, Spartacus. All those had a Christian theme at the core, and that’s great.
But not like the more B-movie sword-fighting Greek and Roman warrior movies starring beefcake guys like Steve Reeves.
But I’ll admit, I was dividing those off in a category of their own, to back up my thesis. (I’d be the scientist killing off specimens that didn’t support my hypothesis 😎 )
I’ll come around and hit all your comments in other topics later in the afternoon. whoa, you left a trail of interesting notes all over the site.
I finally just watched the French Connection in it’s entirety and I must say… movies like The Departed probably wouldn’t have even been made, yet alone win Best Picture without The French Connection. Awesome!
Ryan, Richard Roeper went a step further than you and said he thinks he should be considered for Best Picture, so I don’t think you warrant any kind of harsh words.
I think Supporting Actor, Sound, and Sound Editing are 100% definite. Visuals, Makeup and Cinematography are likely. Art Direction, perhaps. Everything else seems like it might be pushing it a bit, but the movie has my support. I would love nothing more than for all these things, plus Picture and Director to be on the final nomination list. It sure as hell deserves them.
I know a lot of people who thought Spider-Man 2 had all the promise TDK has now back in 2004. But I have to be honest, it’s not the same. I find the Spider-Man movies to be entertaining, but they all strike me as extremely overrated popcorn movies. TDK is a movie you could release in December or any time of the month, and I don’t think it’s impact would be lost on you. I think you brining up the whole LOTR, Gladiator, French Connection comparisons is accurate. And I hope it pans out for what is sure to go down as the best superhero film of all time.
We agree, McAllister, and that’s what I was implying when I said the Warner Bros year-end FYC ads are going to be listing every category, from the top down. (Reality check: Hairspray exhibited the same wishful thinking in its FYC ads.)
Okay, Oldman and Eckhart are good in THE DARK KNIGHT, but don’t put them neck and neck with Ledger. I realize The Joker is a more showy role than those two, but as a result, Ledger dances circles around them. I don’t even think it’s a comparison.
RA, I wasn’t saying I would necessarily nominate it for all of those (definitely a few)… just saying that it is certainly worthy of consideration for all of those categories.
why the site is not as brave as necessary to put the movie and the actors and the technicians in the main page in the list of possible nominations?
let us dream!
not seen the movie yet. here in italy will be out on 23rd…can’t wait…
good catch, theunusualsubject. And that reminds me that Road to Perdition was based on a graphic novel too — and while not nominated for screenplay, it got nods in 6 other categories.
McAllister, for me it’s just trying to save a smidgen of cautiousness because I don’t want to fall completely overboard. Also, with the quality of movies we’ve been seeing the past 2 or 3 years, films that might’ve easily been nominated for Best Picture in weaker years have been edged out by others that are plain better.
The Assassination of Jesse James…, Into the Wild, American Gangster, I’m Not There, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly — that’s an impressive and very worthy set of 5 nominees, but not when up against The Coens, PTA, and Diablo – ack! – Cody.
(I do admire your enthusiasm though, and have to admit it’s great to hear the bold BP talk.)
Ok, you are saying TDK should end up with 9 noms…. and most people believe it deserve best script and best director… and this movie is by far the best movie of the year and espectacular in all senses acording to critics… so yeah, i think you should include it in the best picture category, just in case….
RichardA… about Adapted Screenplay; A history of violence was based on a graphic novel.
But a fair point.
Most people seem to be afraid to say it as if to jinx it… but yes, The Dark Knight could easily be a nominee for Best Picture. It will all depend on competition since a superhero movie has never been nominated for BP before… but this film certain is of high enough quality to be considered. And aside from that, everything else falls into place… Director, Supporting Actor, Screenplay, Cinematography, Art Direction, Score, Editing, Makeup, Visual Effects, Sound Editing, Sound Mixing.
Would be interested to hear you expand on your thoughts about the editing, RichardA, because personally — first impression — I found the tightness and time compression exhilarating and almost avant-guard (as Bourne was last summer, but coming at it from a totally different direction.) I’ll probably write more about the editing when I see the film a second and third time, but meanwhile your input would be appreciated while I’m still forming an opinion.
FYC:
Best Support: Heath Ledger, Gary Oldham because they deserve it.
Best screenplay: I’m on the fence on this one because Oscar likes their adapted source from books.
Best Sound editing/mixing: because this is where Oscar hand out summer blockbuster.
Best Picture, in the way of Gladiator.
I would personally laugh if considered for best editing and visual effects.
Christian Bale just can’t even buy himself some recognition. I think he should’ve been nominated for Batman Begins and was just as spot-on pitch-perfect in TDK
It really is great to see such excitement and infectious passion at Awards Daily. The funny thing about Ryan’s posting here is that the NINE nomination prospective total might actually be ‘downplaying’ the film’s prospects. Ryan probably wanted to zero in on what he thought were safes bets. Looking beyond Heath, Howard, Pfister, Smith, Crowley, et al, I see a REAL possibilitity of a Best Picture nomination as well as a Best Director nom for Chris Nolan. And if either one or both of those were to somehow materialize, then Screenplay could be in a mix.
Theres a lot working for this film. It is the best superhero movie ever made, it is the most intellectually wrought of them all, it has fantastic composite reviews, and it has an aching, still melancholy population that wants to send off beloved Heath Leger with a brace of awards. An actor nomination and win may just be the tip of the iceberg.
Again, Ryan, I really applaud you.
By the way Jonah, and I add this as I just saw your post after mine appeared, Eckert was indeed superlative as that grotesque two-face, and he could well bring the film two Best Supporting actor nods. Why not? It’s happened a number of times before. Ledger would win of course, but they may give the film TWO NODS in that same category. Of course others will say Lead for Ledger and Supporting for Echert. I doubt that scenario, but who knows?
Here’s what I want to know… everyone loves Heath Ledger for all the obvious and already-stated reasons… so what are the chances that maybe, maybe if this actually goes all the way to 2009 that perhaps Aaron Eckhart, who gives just as fine a performance as Mr. Ledger (and that’s saying something, in my opinion), rides his coattails into S. Actor as well? Because he damn well deserves a nomination for his Harvey Dent, too.
Sure thing The Dark Knight has a chance to be nominated for Best Picture. Who would have thought in 1970 an X-rated movie about a male prostitute and his tubercular buddy would ever be nominated, let alone win!
Sounds reasonable to me at this point, even likely. Possibly others as well. Like I said in another post, this one’s akin to Titanic in a lot of ways (ok, maybe not the 14-year-old girl fanbase, but switch genders, and you’re there).
if only it came out late this year..
no, wait, hold that thought… if it came out later this year I wouldn’t have seen it yet.
as an ENORMOUSLY eeky comics fan (and I mean major, USED TO SPEND US$ 100$ A WEEK on comics), I just want to watch this again.
I just found my irrational favorite for next years’ oscars!
sorry if tis was a weird post, this was my day:
1 – 22:20 went out with this girl I’ve lusted for since march
2 – 6:40: dropped her off ate he place
3 – 9:30: got up and got to work
4 – 11:00 – from work to the film theatre
5 – 16:00 – trying to concentrate on anything else since I left the theatre.
I’m absolutely watchin’ it again today.
I haven’t seen it yet……………………………..
………………
……………………………….. sorry, I was counting the days.
But this all sounds quite credible to me. At least as buzz. Buzz is buzz. There’s alot of reason for buzz on this movie. The pedigree is awesome. If the movie hasn’t disappointed. It deserves to be buzzed. If it doesn’t make it all the way through, we’ll say it was snubbed, not that we were wrong.
But let me see it first.
Here’s something I’m not excited about – Mamma Mia! Oi.
incidentally, though, Ryan… don’t Toga flicks have a good track record at the Oscars? Ben Hur somewhat? & um, the Robe..?
Anyway, point is – how many toga flicks WERE there before Gladiator? Was it really a ‘snubbed’ genre? Or just an empty one?
Comic Book adaptations is more of a swnubbed genre. Batman Begins being a pleasant exception, creeping into nominations beyond sound and effects.
I think its clear that Oscar is willing to overlook genres when they really like a movie, if it does well & is well made, they also HAVE to like the movie. Every notable western released in the past 5 years has been credited with defeating the ‘The Western is dead’ thing. Not that that necessarily translates into Oscars, but point is-
Genre Schmenre. Good movies will get noticed.
As for TDK – put it up for BP…
Wait, wait. let me see it first.
Supporting Actor, Cinematography, Editing and Sound all ‘yes.’ It should also get a script nomination and deserves consideration for directing. Sound Mixing though? I found the music tracks to be mixed higher than the dialogue at inappropriate times – so much so it made the dialogue tracks difficult to hear. Similarly, I think there were scenes and quite a few lines that could have benefited from another pass at ADR. I think by this time six months from now there’ll be too many other nicely art directed films for Crowley to get the nod this time, but Ryan makes good points all around. Nice column.
Impressive movie.
And I’d personally take Oldman over Ledger for Supporting Actor any day of the week.
His work here is a thing of beauty.
I fully agree on the screenplay as well, it was able to mix political cinema with entertainment in ways that still have me puzzled.
The screenplay had lines as potent as you find in many Oscar-winners. There was no junk filler dialogue either. Helps to have guys like Freeman and Caine wringing every ounce of impact out of their exchanges.
(I like Nolan for director too, Mark P, but want to see what else happens this year before climbing out on that branch. Feel like a kitten up a tree as it is.)
Don’t forget the Nolans for screenplay, or heck, even Chris Nolan himself for director. Or maybe even Oldman or Eckhart for supporting.
Pfister found previously undiscovered shades of black in TDK. He should have a new species of black named after him.
I agree, S.T. Stevens. Pfister seems to be liked by the Academy, and I think his work in The Dark Knight is like a quantum leap from Batman Begins.
I think all of those categories are ripe for The Dark Knight, Ryan. Not unreasonable at all.
Lee Smith and Nathan Crowley has previous nominations too, S.T. (For Master and Commander and The Prestige.)
The score sounded to me like the psycho strings of Jonny Greenwood meets the metal friction of Nine Inch Nails.
When the soundtrack album broke out online a few days ago, a kid on the IMDb boards described his reaction to “Like a Dog Chasing Cars” like this: “I just shit my pants.”
(are two composers eligible for noms for the same score?)
(Ryuichi Sakamoto, David Byrne, Cong Su were all 3 nominated for The Last Emperor, but AMPAS keeps playing musical chairs with the rules.)
I think the cinematography nom has definite credibility. Keep in mind that Pfister was recognized there with a nomination for Batman Begins.
Kicking some ass, this movie.
Caveat: Right now this is all on me, and I don’t mind bearing the burden of abuse. Try not to be too harsh, ok? Don’t pity me my naiveté or worry about my mental stabilty (at least not for this.)
Haven’t had a chance to discuss any of this with Sasha yet. I’m expecting our Oscar Goddess will grant me a few wishes and admonish me for a few others. (Clearly, I’m taking the new motto of the site to heart.)
Besides, near the end of the year when the buzz turns to Zzzz, and the Mmmm turns to Hmmm, I can come back in and delete the fuck out of this whole post if it starts to smell too much like a beached albatross.