As music supervisor on The Dropout, Maggie Phillips’ instructions were to use music to track Elizabeth Holmes’ journey from an awkward high schooler to Stanford dropout, to lauded entrepreneur, and ultimately an infamous Silicon Valley pariah. Using knowledge of Holmes’ love of hip hop and rap and the biggest musical hits of the 2000s, Phillips’ song choices root the miniseries firmly in time and atmosphere. And most importantly, provide insight into Holmes’ aspirations and transformation.
Here, Phillips details some of the biggest musical moments in The Dropout and explains why combing through scores of iconic songs proved to be a liberating task for one of the most prolific and sought-after music supervisors in the business.
Awards Daily: So, I watched the first episode of The Dropout, and I was like, ‘These music cues are amazing. Who is this music supervisor? I need to talk to them,’ and then the credits roll, and I was like, ‘It’s Maggie, of course!’
Maggie Phillips: [Laughs] Thank you!
AD: When you and I last spoke, you told me your philosophy for music supervision was not picking the obvious song…
MP: Yeah. I picked the obvious songs in this one, hmm?
AD: Well, you had to use music as a timestamp and root us in that early 2000s era. What was that like for you to sort of go against your instincts?
MP: It was fun. It was kind of liberating. That was my direct instruction from [series creator Elizabeth Meriwether]. She was very clear that she wanted a timestamp. She wanted it to scream 2004, 2010, and she wanted people to feel nostalgic and remember the songs, and she wanted the big hits for the most part. So, it was just different and fun. It’s fun to switch it up on occasion. Typically, when I go in to listen for a project, there are so many songs that you could listen to for one spot. So many genres and artists, but for this, I thought, ‘What are the top 100 to 200 songs from this period? What works in that spot?’ Then it narrowed down from there, so it’s nice to have parameters like that.
AD: I have to ask you about Elizabeth in her car when she was psyching herself up; how did you decide what her pump-up songs were going to be?
MP: I’m afraid you’ll be disappointed by some of the answers because the three biggest song moments were from Liz Merriweather; they were in the script. The Missy Elliott in episode two, when she was psyching herself out in Vegas, she’s in the office when she starts with that one. Then she continues to listen to it throughout the day when she’s going to pitch her idea to all those dudes. ‘Firework’ was also scripted. I think Lil’ Wayne’s ‘How to Love’ was scripted as well.
We did the research, and we knew Elizabeth listened to a lot of hip hop and rap from that period. There was some story or interview of someone who had seen Elizabeth doing that, psyching herself up to music in her car, so we had a little nugget of truth. It was fun to run with it. Also, I think it’s something that probably most people are familiar with, you know, listening to music in your car before you go into work, go on a date, or go into a meeting, to pump yourself up. We used a lot of inspirational and aspirational songs, which a lot of music was back then. It was the Obama era; it was a lot of pop, high-hopes pumped up music.
AD: That’s interesting! So, if you had these big musical moments already in the script, how did you then decide the songs that would flesh out the other big moments?
MP: Well, we wanted to live within that world. And, I did get a few more indie choices in there on occasion. For me, those are the songs that kind of scream early 2000s, mid-2000s. That’s the music I listened to when I was younger. We never put it in as something Elizabeth would listen to, but it was more used as a montage or for end credits. Like, LCD Soundsystem; Wolf Parade; Passion Pit; Yeah, Yeah Yeahs; Sparklehorse in episode 101—that was one of my favorite moments.
AD: What was one of the songs where you’re like, ‘Oh, I can’t believe I got to use that!’
MP: There was a handful. I mentioned the Sparklehorse in 101 with Sunny and Elizabeth on their weird date in China. I loved that. We got Feist’s ‘1234’ for that scene when she’s going to get her iPhone, her first iPhone. I honestly didn’t think that that would clear, and it did. That was a big moment. I loved having St. Vincent at the end of the series. I love the scripted stuff like that ‘Firework’ moment with Alan Ruck; I think it is my favorite moment in the series, and that’s a moment that an actor just totally brought to life. Everyone talks about that, and the other moment, Elizabeth dancing to Lil’ Wayne, that weird, creepy seduction dance.
AD: I think that was the thing that was the most fun for me in terms of the music was that mystery of, ‘What fun throwback song is going to pop up next?’ How much did you know about Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos?
MP: I did not know much. I knew the headlines. I didn’t follow it like a lot of people had followed it. I purposely didn’t listen to the podcasts and read the scripts instead of the podcast. I listened to the podcast after, and I watched one of the documentaries in prep for the interview. I didn’t know much about it, but I worked at a few dot coms early in my career, right out of college. So I had a little bit of an experience with being in like this, all-white, male bosses and that kind of weird mentality of trying to get to the top and one-up each other, which I guess it’s like that in a ton of industries.
I know she wanted to prove herself. I’m not going to diagnose her, but it was a fascinating story. I got obsessed with it as we were working on it.
AD: I think her confidence in many ways does come across in her music choices.
MP: We can’t know exactly what she listened to, other than knowing she liked rap and hip hop. She strikes me as someone that would listen to the radio and new current music, but also she has this false bravado, confidence, and cockiness. It makes sense she’s going to use music to reinforce that mentality. We don’t know the real Elizabeth Holmes, so at least in part for our series, it was fun to create that added layer to her character.
AD: Were there any songs you wanted to use that you couldn’t get?
MP: We did have a Kanye West song at the end of the series, his song ‘Jail.’ Many people loved that song for the ending, and many loved St. Vincent. We hadn’t decided which one we wanted to use, so we were pursuing both clearances, and the Kanye West just didn’t clear. We were told that they were interested in it, but we couldn’t get a response in time for the mix. So, the fact that it didn’t clear decided the outcome.
Our studio, 20th Century Fox, gave us a pretty hefty budget. They also recognized that we were doing something really cool with the music, so they approved some overages. Our biggest hurdle was just the expense, but we were able to get what we wanted. Creatively, I think, because it was all the more obvious fun radio hits, it was a gift. I always try to challenge myself, and sometimes I’m better at it than other times. I’m always trying to do something that no one’s used before, which is almost impossible these days. I try to use something that’s like a more obscure gem that I get to introduce the audience to that not everyone would know. That’s kind of always my challenge in my career. In this instance, I was given the directive to do the opposite, which was liberating
AD: You always have at least three or four projects going simultaneously. Logistically, how does that work? How do you manage being surrounded by that volume of music?
MP: Well, I have a strong team that I work with. I worked with Andrew Brady, who’s no longer on my team, but he was heavily invested in The Dropout. Then Kristen Higuera, who I still work with, so I have a strong team to help keep me organized. All music supervisors have to juggle multiple projects. We don’t get paid enough to be exclusive. That’s just the way we make it work financially. You learn to be extremely organized, and you work really hard. You compartmentalize and say for the next hour, I will work on The Dropout; then after that, I will work on Shining Girls. I have to be very scheduled and regimented in my day. Then creatively, I like to put on different hats, you know, like I’m listening for Liz Meriwether for this one, I’m listening for Silka Luisa for Shining Girls. Listening for Our Flag Means Death was a very different type, so I liked that I changed my ears. It’s just a switch, and I’m putting on a different hat and listening for a different vibe. I like that it’s challenging.
AD: When listening to a song, do you ever consider your tastes versus what’s best for the project? Is it a challenge for you to go with your head and not with your heart?
MP: No, I go with what’s best for the project. I try to take projects where I know what I’m getting into creatively. Frankly, the hardest thing for me creatively right now is just any newer music, so if I do a project like that, I know I will rely on my team to help introduce me to new artists. I kind of always know what I’m getting into, so, creatively, if I’m really against what they’re going to do, I don’t do the project. The more honest answer is when it’s something I love and it fits the project, that’s when I am very satisfied. The last episode of Shining Girls has an Angel Olsen cover of one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs. It’s a song that I’ve loved for decades with an artist I’ve loved for a decade. To put those two together and craft something original for this show was a really special, gratifying, and rewarding moment for me.
AD: What can you tell me about working on Shining Girls?
MP: I’m excited about that music, but the Shining Girls music is much more subtle. Shining Girls is a challenging watch; it’s not for everyone, but I hope people like it. I was really proud of it.
The Dropout is streaming now on Hulu.
